I am looking at getting a new truck i currently own a 99 Sonoma ZR-2 and i just got a new job in Wyoming. Being that i am a truck man and could never drive a car especially in Wyoming i am looking at getting a diesel truck. I would do some occasional light towing but mostly just highway mileage. I am really sold on a 2005 cummins, they look great, awsome power, awsome motor, i am just a little learly about the tranny. The other truck i was looking at is a 2003 Dmax with 40,000 miles for $26,000. Now i am not much of a tower but would deffinatly like to hop my baby up with a juice attitude and a few other things. I really like both the trucks, they both have their ups and downs of course. I was wondering what you guys think would work better for a guy. I just cant decide on which to get. Thanks

im a cummins man so iwould go with the cummins ive got a 05 1 ton 4x4 cc and i run hotshot. i have put over 40000 miles on in 4 months and the power just keeps getting better as well as the fuel mileage. i get anywhere from 18-22 empty and grossong 30,000 lbs around 13-15. very comfortable to drive and be in for long periods of time. the six speed is great i ahve heard of some problems but have experienced none my self and the autos have a weak tourqe converter im told but should not be any problem doing light to no hauling.
rick

yea that is the only thing i am worried about is tranny, i deffinatly wan't an auto. I am probably going to add a juice and an intake. I would usually just run the juice on level one just for the milage and the guages would be nice too. The ocassional stage 5 would be need though to stomp some rice burners and teach em where the real power is! Does anyone know if the attitude module has a tranny temp guage for the dodge? If not where do you boys install a tranny temp guage if you have the juice module on the pillar? I am also conserend about the interior. Its seems to be built a bit cheaper than the duramax.

well if youre willing to sacrifice power for interior looks git er done. but honestly the dodge interior is great and trip computer is handy. and as far as the integrated brake controller most dodge houses will install a prodigy brake controller that plugs right in for little or no costs if discussed at purchased and they are great. father in law has auto and pulls a 70 horse case tractor with front end loader on it and has a little over 20,000 on his and has no problems with it at all. i have just heard some others on here talking about the tourqe convertor havent heard anything form the dealer or seen any problems.

rick

I assume you've driven both right? Basically it's all about which one you feel the most comfortable in. I think either truck would be a sweet ride, and like you said, both have their ups and downs. I think the allison tranny is pretty hard to beat, but it's a lot cheaper to lift a dodge, hahaha:) . I've got a duramax and love it, I've also got friends who drive cummin's 600's and I like them too. It's all about what makes ya happy when your behind the wheel. Good luck with your search! :ro)

J-HEFF

Two of my best friends have Dodges, 1 - 2000, and 1 - 2003.5, the 2000 has 155,000 miles, he's in the tile business, he has hauled two pallets of floor mud, every week since truck was new, and has only needed tranny work and some rear-end work, but the engine has never been touched, origional injectors.
my 2003 buddy, in the tile business too, and his is a dually, beats the piss out of his dodge, and not one problem....

Dont forget, even those Allison's need a Suncoast to bring the power down !!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/muahaha.gif

It's a call between engine and fuel system longetivity, looks like all three need tranny work in between other things.....

Oh I forgot, an old co-worker, that retired 4 years ago, got a new dodge dually 6 speed H.O with manual,and a new Hitchiker 5'er, over 30', with 2-3 slide-outs, drives to Dallas Texas 3 to 4 times a year, and running stronger than ever !!!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif without any hick'ups.....

The biggest thing for me was the NOISE. The darn Dodge is soooo stinking loud my wife would never let me in the driveway. The DMAX is just as good (IMHO) and is significantly more quiet. Besides, the interior is WAY better (have the DVD for the kids)):h

Yes, I have to agree with Parent723. The noise was the deciding factor for me. Test drive both trucks. You will soon find out when you pull up to the drive through and you have to turn off your truck to hear the speaker. This may or may not bother you, but it did me.

MY 2003 HO is no louder then a duramax.You here this all the time from the duramax guys and there comparing the sec gen cummins to there truck not the third.I was working on a guys house with a duramax and he said damn that cummins is quieter then my mine.

A new Dodge is quieter than a new Duramax. I have seen plenty of both trucks. The Dodge is not as loud as the chevy. I drive a duramax and love it, but the NEW dodges are a little quieter than my truck.

Drive both for a day(not a 10 minute test drive) and then decide. They are both good and you will be writing the check. I like the Dmax but think the new Dodge has a nicer looking exterior, and they are very quiet, Dmax is quiet as well. If your not towing then the trans should last if that is the concern on the Dodge. Mileage from what I read is about the same.

I also have read that Dodge is a few thousand dollars less expensive.

Good luck.

I like the Cummins over the Duramax. I think that the Dodge has a better interior, I think the engine is better designed and more reliable, basically I think it's the right truck. Then again, I do a lot of towing, and the rest of it is highway mileage. If I only did city driving or only did occasional towing, I probably wouldn't even buy a truck and if I did it would be a gasser. These diesels (both the Cummins AND the Duramax) are meant to work, and I believe that the majority of people who've been complaining of injector problems, etc. (which seems to be going down in recent months... wonder if winterized diesel had something to do with it) are the ones who aren't actually working their trucks. People I've met on the road at truck stops who usually have some trailers behind them never report problems. But hey, that's my opinion. I'll probably get shunned off the forum for thinking that.

I have owned both....a d-max for 63k and a cummins for 14k. Both trucks are good and both have positives and negatives. If we could put them together somehow we could all have what we want.

One question no one has asked....what platform are you looking to buy, regular cab, extended cab or crew cab. If you have kids I would not recommend the GM extended cab as you are always stuck between the two doors and kids can't open the doors up dropping them off at school when they get older. The Dodge in the extended cab does not have this problem. The GM crew cab is the way to go if you are going to be hauling 4 adults regularly but if adults and kids the dodge extended cab works good.

In cold climates, even with the high idle kit in the GM, the dodge does seem to heat much better without radiator covers than my GM did with one. It gets to -35 F sometimes here and usually runs -20 F to +20 F in winter time

I am not worried about the 48re dodge transmission but I have to admit I do miss the transmission breaking and fifth gear the allison. But if you are not towing heavy or regular this probably will not be a factor.

As far as engines they are both good. I went to a cummins for reputation and a prooven trac record for many miles over many years.....and yes I agree that every engine and truck manufacturer does make a bad one now and again, I have owned them.

That is my .02 cents worth. I would highly recommend driving both brands for a day, and preferably one that has 15-20 k on it such that they are broken in. I hated my cummins before it got some miles on it but love it now!

Sorry Guys,http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif the brand new dodge 04's, and newer are just as quiet as the mighty max!!!, I've had them up hood to hood, they are Identical, you would'nt even believe it. I'll get the digital camera out and do a sample recording.

I'm having trouble understanding why so many max'es are juiced and suncoasted to the hills, even after these trucks cost 45K before add-on's.

If your looking to impress, look like the rest, buy the max.....

If your going to work, and really use it like maximum pulling weight, you better get the cummins....

I don't believe there have been enough people upset enough to complain about the dodge injector problems to re-state a engine warranty to make everyone somewhat happy.......http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/muahaha.gif

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Dodge use almost exactly the same injection system by the same company at the same rail pressure as the GM?

:iamwithst


McRat has a point...


but the cummins has 2 less injectors,and thus 2 less problems;) .

if you really want to pull at your GVW I suggest a powerstroke anyway. Cause everyone knows common rail sucks. and Im an idiot

Both good trucks,but id get a new 05 dodge over a 2 yr old Max anyday.Like was mentioned the new Cummins is very quiet,and smooth,the whole truck is refined,and it has VERY strong brakes,much stronger than the GM trucks.I agree the Allison has better trans programming,and more features,but in all honesty the 48RE is plenty strong,and will likely serve you perfectly fine,even if your haulin heavy.

Another thought....The 05 dodge comes with a 36,000 bumper to bumper warranty, 70,000 powertrain warranty and 100,000 on the cummins. The D-Max comes with a 36,000 bumper to bumper and powertrain, and 100,000 on the d-max. And if your "lucky enough" 200,000 on the injectors. One big selling factor when comparing new to used.

The new cummins motors are very quiet. Stock ones anyway.

Ya I will add my .02

I agree with most of what everyone else says except that the 48RE is plunty strong. I still have 0 faith in a dodge automatic, if you are getting an auto, get the allison, if you can stand the stick or want it, your more than welcome to take the dodge.

I just perfer a chevy ride quality over the dodge. Just personal preference.

I do belive that the Allison performs better but problem wise it has more than the Dodge 48re....So in theory the Dodge tranny is more reliable if we are crunching the numbers.....

ya i see your point there, but the allison problems are small, generally. after 70k i think the dodge has to be rebuilt. i don't know anything about the miles on the new trannies, what for mileage are they getting out of the new trannies?

There are plenty of guys over 70K on there 48re's and some with over 100k towing with no problems, I know that the valve body was changed and a couple of extra clutches were added and a few other changes were made to the 48re when they changed over from the 47re in 2003. I for one have had zero problems with my tranny, (granted I am only at 30k) runs like a champ.

Guys, I am impressed! This tread has gone on for 3 pages and stayed very respectful and informative! This would have taken about 3 post on the Ford site to turn nasty! I guess that happen when you are insecure about your brand!:D Continue!:ro)

Let me respectfully submit that the Allison does break down, or at least mine did. It trashed at 160K. All the injectors trashed repeatedly. My Cummins has "quietly" hummed along for 100K with no needs. Fellow I used to live near is now over 200K with his '03 Cummins. It just "quietly" runs along.

Pay your money and take your chances.

I too think get what you want.I just wanted to put my 2 cents in about the 48re not being as bad as you hear.It should hold up fine for you.

not anything against captainmal, but i see you have the 6 speed, and i was looking for more of the nebuniram comments,even though that was not really the original 48re but rather a conversion. but that was the comments i was looking for with the auto. i have no doubt in the cummins with the 6 speed.

that was not a conversion on the tranny that nebuniram was talking about.It is what is differant with the 48re and the 47re.Well I am done posting on this I am sure you will come back and say what a P O S it is any way.

Like I have always said....ride height of a dodge. Ride of a GM. Cummins for a motor. Allison for a transmission. Superduty towing mirrors. And the rest is a tossup! Its all what you look for and any combination will be good for most anyone.

not anything against captainmal, but i see you have the 6 speed, and i was looking for more of the nebuniram comments,even though that was not really the original 48re but rather a conversion. but that was the comments i was looking for with the auto. i have no doubt in the cummins with the 6 speed.

They are having trouble with there NEW 6spd. now.....why oh why did they mess that up!! The recent 05's have all been on hold at rail yards and have just been released. DC says one quart low in the tranny fluid was the problem.......yeah right!! So .....be leary of that new six speed. Lots of info over at the TDR. on this subject.

I like my Dodge towing mirrors better than the Ford SuperDuty mirrors (have driven an F-350 dually with those mirrors, and I find that my standard towing mirrors on the Dodge outperform them, at least for my eyes).

I recall someone (I believe CaptainMal) coming across a 1-legged man who did hotshot runs with his '03 Cummins and had 190k on the stock 48RE. At least, that's if I remember the story right. Anyone care to confirm this?

As far as I'm concerned, getting 160k out of an automatic tranny isn't bad at all. A manual transmission is just going to be inherently stronger because of how the two are designed. That's one of the two reasons why I bought the 6-speed, the second being because I like to row my own gears, and I'm cheap and didn't want to pay the premium up-front and in the future for the 48RE :) The only time I wish I had the automatic is when I'm stuck in traffic in New York City, but I try to avoid going there as much as possible.

I will say, though, that I didn't bother to test drive a PSD 6.0 or a Duramax when I bought my truck, I just went straight to the Dodge dealer because I knew what I wanted. As such, I've never even ridden in a Duramax. I've ridden in a PSD 6.0 a few times, though, and driven one once (my friend's dad has one).

And yes, let's PLEASE keep this thread civil!

The allison will out live the dodge tranny.I have a o4 d-max And i pull a 27' goose neck filled w/wood shavings. I have 46k on mine and have not had one problem with motor and tranny! Now my friend just bought a 05 dodge crew/with the diesel auto he has 31k and need some extra $$$. So we split the money for him to pull my trailer to the dairy farmers. his tranny did not hold up. Infact it was all over the road (Busted case) And good ol dodge is not going to warrant it cuz the load was to heavy for the truck? The trailer is 17-23k depending on if the wood we cut is wet or dry. Like i said my tranny has had no probs w/this load.

Lots of folks go with "brand" recognition, or family traditions. My Uncle has been a Dodge man all his life (except that one old Apache with the false bottom and 4-cyl. Cat diesel, but that's another story).

His 03 and 04 Dodge CC duallies were both buy-backs for broken frames (just behind the cab), so he now has a 6.0 V-10 Furd and he hates it. But it has not broken down once in 100K+ miles.

Rode with him from Michigan City IN, to St. Louis, and I thought my 2-Ton was a rough ride....then there was the 7 MPG average towing an 8,000 lbs trailer. Another thing was the built in brake controller was "not compatible???" with the standard connector on the fiver. No battery charge and no brakes all the way. (What's up with that?).

If your looking at the Dodge for the Cummins brand, then get that. You may not be satisfied with anything else.

RF

Like I have always said....ride height of a dodge. Ride of a GM. Cummins for a motor. Allison for a transmission. Superduty towing mirrors. And the rest is a tossup! Its all what you look for and any combination will be good for most anyone.

i would buy that. :ro)

You will be happy with both. I am

I am sure you will all jump down my throats for this one but I figured I might as well put in my two cents. A few friends of our in this area have a Cummins and they are automatic and they work exactly like the D-max allision transmission and that is because they are an allision tranny. Now they don't say Allision on them but they are made by Allision. I am going to safely assume since GM has the rights to Allision they are not allowed to market Allision with Cummins. Now to hopefully back my statement up a little bit here is an example of what happens: My Boyfriend hauls milk to Farmers Cheese which is the largest Mozz and Prov. cheese producer on the east coast, the fellow who worked in the packing section was telling us that they have over 200 labels that the use. Whether you buy kraft, Great value, food club etc it all comes from them and it is all the same thing. You are pretty much paying for the name. Well they do this in almost everything - tools Stanley has many other side names but they are all made by the same company. But I am sure everyone has good and bad experiences with both companies. Every once in a while you get a bad one in the bunch.
As for deciding between the two it all comes down to personal preference. If you are looking for a nice truck that has the comforts of your luxury SUV's go with Duramax or if you are looking for more pulling power go with the cummins. The choice is completely yours.

Dieselchick - where did you get the information that chrysler's transmission is made by allison?
You'll have to provide some literature before I'll believe that....

Diesel chick, I have to apologize! I was at the local Chevy dealership talking with their Duramax mechanic and he received a call from a mechanic at the Dodge dealership asking about an Allison problem!!!!!!!!!! The Chevy mechanic said that they just started using them in the Dodge!!!!

DIESEL CHICK IS RIGHT!!!!

Now, if they can make their truck as comfortable as the Chevrolet...there might be trouble....
Keith


This is from a previous forum on this site that I was one. More then one mechanic in my area have taken a look underneath the dodge and tell me that is an allision and definitely not the crappy transmission that dodge had before. And these mechanics work strictly on trucks (big trucks) so I feel pretty confident in there vision capabilities.

Dodge does not use an allison;) its an upgraded version of the turd of a trans known as the 47 with is a OD added to a 30 year old turd of a trans being the 727. If I have any of my facts mixed up I'm sure John will correct me. ;) Now if the 48 is now a deccent trans finaly? Who knows. There are plenty of my friend of my uncles pet dog best friend's :blahblah: blew up backing off the trailer on delivery or it pulled a broke down semi through the mountians up hill both ways in a snow storm:blahblah: Time will tell though. When in doubt call a few guys like suncoast that work and mod both of em and see witch ones fry and why and get thier oppinion so when its upgrade time you know what you will be up against.

I have also drove my dads 550 withthe torqueshift and he said like every one else "it works just like an allison in the chevy" Nope. It might grade brake but it still dosnt controll lock up like the allison on upshifts.

Metal Research INC (our company) is closely associated Chrysler (we build Flash fixtures for their assembly line) and Allison tranny's in dodge trucks has been in the works for a long time now (would not be surprised if they are already) Chrysler does not build the 48RE (they dont build any of the drive train components in the dodge truck line up) hence the 300C has a mercedes tranny(I know I know basically the same company).

While it may or may not be an Allison it is definitly not a Dodge tranny.

Yea it is a dodge tranny! My friends 04 cummins w/auto just -:t . And it has chrysler. stamped all over it. And diesel chic. And the rest of you There is only one allison tranny in the top 3 pickup makers.And its.........G.M. And if you check fords web site it will tell you that ford builds the torque shift.

When you pay $$$$$ for a truck you should buy what you like. I prefer the interiors and the ride of the GM over the Dodge or Ford. Interior wise the crew cab on GM's has more room than either of the others. If at some point I have to replace injectors or a tranny oh well. Can't take it with you $$$$ my $.02..Jim

Well, a retired co-worker bought a brand new Dodge cummins dually 6 speed manual, 5 years ago, he also bought a new tripple axle Hitchiker 5th wheel over 33 to 34 feet long, 3 slide outs, now that's some real weight we should talking about, he has almost 70,000 miles absolutley never been in the shop trouble free miles, pulling his hitchiker from Minnesota to california, to Texas, to Maine, to everywhere and nada, nothing.

And my dmax had an injector or two act up & coat the back end of a semi just driving down the hwy at 75 without pulling a load, with only 1,500 miles new......
There is no contest for the truth......

Yea it is a dodge tranny! My friends 04 cummins w/auto just -:t . And it has chrysler. stamped all over it. And diesel chic. And the rest of you There is only one allison tranny in the top 3 pickup makers.And its.........G.M. And if you check fords web site it will tell you that ford builds the torque shift.

What's so great about the Allison? So far I don't see where it has proven to be this "Super" tranny. It still goes south like the rest.. stock it seems to hold up a bit longer. But it can't handle any more power than any other trans without dumping $5000 into it.

It's the best of the bunch but I can tell you the Ford Torqueshift has MUCH nicer shifting manners.

Yea it is a dodge tranny! My friends 04 cummins w/auto just -:t . And it has chrysler. stamped all over it. And diesel chic. And the rest of you There is only one allison tranny in the top 3 pickup makers.And its.........G.M. And if you check fords web site it will tell you that ford builds the torque shift.

--------------------------------------------------------
:stick_out So what's your point???....my "Cummins" has "Dodge" on it.....and it's not made by Chrysler either!!!
:muahaha:

New dodges are really quiet, I think they are really nice trucks. A 03 dmax is a sweet ride as well. I drove an 01 dmax loaded with 20,000 pds of cattle on it and it ran like crazy. Both nice trucks.

I agree. The new Cummins is very quiet. Drove one today and was totally amazed with the engine.

The trucks all have their "better points".. It's all in what you want.. I like trying new trucks every few years so I can see the differences.. I tried the superduty, then the dmax, and now the new cummins.. I only picked up the new cummins yesterday, though I'll soon see how well it responds to mods.. We'll see.. Good luck with your decisions..

They are both outstanding trucks....I'd base my decision on price and dealer. GM is releasing their new 06 very soon. It will have a new 6 speed auto Allison and more power than the 05. You should be able to get a great deal on an 05 when the 06 is released. If you are looking at the ex. cabs, go with the Dodge quad cab, but if you need more room, the GM Crew cab is the best. Ohh, and XM radio and Onstar in GM kick a$$!!!

I own an 04.5 3500 DRW Dodge/Cummins.....love it - it's the second Cummins I've owned.
I like the D-Max's too......both are great trucks.....

With the diesel motor systems being refined as much as they have been in these trucks, either one should work fine for ya.

If you are looking at the ex. cabs, go with the Dodge quad cab, but if you need more room, the GM Crew cab is the best.

If you want the MOST room there is no competition to the 06 Dodge Cummins Megacab.

If you want the MOST room there is no competition to the 06 Dodge Cummins Megacab.

Ya, that's if you have no need for a full size truck bed.

what is it? all of 5 feet long? Same length as the Foerd TONKA concept.

Useful I think not for a Real Diesel (Yoda Speak)):h

Ya, that's if you have no need for a full size truck bed.

what is it? all of 5 feet long? Same length as the Foerd TONKA concept.

Useful I think not for a Real Diesel (Yoda Speak)):h


Same size as my truck's bed. Yea they should do a long bed. Somebody will complain about that too :p:

It's too long... or it's ugly... or it's doesn't have enough capacity... or it's too hard to climb into... the seats aren't like my livingroom couch.. wah wah :D

Mine is so friggin loud, big and obnoxious everybody around me either smiles or gives me dirty looks. The cell phones get me. People get mad at me cause they can't hear while they are driving... quickly rolling up their windows. My wife got rear ended yesterday by a woman driving a Lexus that rear ended an Expedition into her. We are betting at least one of them was on the phone. Half tempted to see how to get the phone records checked. Sorry for the tangent.

What's so great about the Allison? So far I don't see where it has proven to be this "Super" tranny. It still goes south like the rest.. stock it seems to hold up a bit longer. But it can't handle any more power than any other trans without dumping $5000 into it.

It's the best of the bunch but I can tell you the Ford Torqueshift has MUCH nicer shifting manners.

$5000......you can build one for a lot less than that and it will handle at least twice stock output.......you should know that.

Torqueshift manners.......puking its guts out and going into the shop sucks....it can keep its manners.

$5000......you can build one for a lot less than that and it will handle at least twice stock output.......you should know that.

You know darn well the guys that go part way want more.

As I just had 8 injectors replaced on my 03 D/A with 60,000 miles on it, and since its a 03 it doesn't qualify for the 100,000 additional warranty on the injectors, the next time its on my dime. So when we D/A owners like to beat our chest and kick the dirt on other brands, GM needs to address this issue. They put the same poor designed injectors that they replaced, and I treat this truck good, additives, secondary filter. It drives great, tows like a champ, but this injector issue is a deal killer for me. Have to admit I am looking at the darkside, and Dodge doesn't look all that bad right now. Not sure if Ford has got their Sh*t together with the 6.0, but Cummins seems to just put out a superior engine every year.

speedracer,
You hit the bulls eye!, I bought a 2002 max, brand new, I currently have 26,900 miles on it, it sits in a commercial underground parking garage, and I only use it for family and fun use, I drive a ford aspire 4 cyl 5 sp, that gets well over 30 miles a gallon to drive to work and around town driving, I do this for 2 reasons, one is since we are getting scr_ed on diesel prices right now, it's better to use my MAX for what it's ment for, the second reason was to hope this truck would last 300 to 400,000 miles and never need another truck till I'm late 50's, but I seem to be very wary about these injectors, I do not have the faith that this will get resolved. I have been quietly sitting away from here instead of speaking my opinion, and it has been said before and I will say it again here: This Dmax was suppose to last and was designed to last well past 200,000 miles, I'm lost to the effect that we have been told that we need to use this kind of oil, and this oil only, or warranty void, you can't use fuel treatments, forbidden, use of treatments means possible warranty void, the stock shocks are totally junk, need new Billsteins, need upgraded exhaust, need gages, need this and need that, after spending 38 to 40,000 bucks, and we need more, well, I too went looking at the new 05 3500 Dodge Cummins Dually, and even the Hemi 3500 dually, if diesel fuel prices don't come down and soon, there will be a serious issues with who's price gouging the diesel pricing, you can spend a-lot on fuel for 6,000 bucks. I like my max a-lot, but have absolutly no faith they will last.....:(

Sorry to hear you needed all 8 replaced with only 60,000 miles, hearing this just make me totally sick,Censored , like I also said before,
Can't thank the general for his continued support......-:t

Bigwheel

Its really to bad, GM got close to hitting the ball out of the park with this combo, I had an 01, with all the first year bugs, GM took care of it, so I came back, even though I was hearing stories from the guys who really rack up the miles like Hoot, that the injectors were the weak link here. I thought by the time I bought an 03, they would have worked to redisign, or whatever to make this a non-issue, well it is still a problem. I too bought this truck as something to own after the payments are gone, but 60,000 miles is BS, to have 8 injectors replaced.

Yeah, I hear about the Dodge trannys, the 48re really hasn't been out long enough for people to trash it, or hype it, but I do know, for the $3500 it cost to replace the injectors out of warranty, I could get a Suncoast aftermarket tranny for the Dodge, and that pretty much takes care of the weak link,(if this in fact still a weak link) where as GM stuck the same design injectors that they replaced in my truck, so what I have to worry again when I reach another 60,000 miles? I am a little PO ed about this, as these trucks are really great, but when you buy a diesel, its for towing, or the high miles you plan to put on it, and injectors crapping out early defeats the purpose.

I think the LLY engine is an improvement, and I am watching to see if Dodge has issues with the Bosch High Pressure Injection, they are having Injectors go out, but at what rate, its hard to determine. So right now, its a wait and see situation for me, but after adding the Nictane system early on, running stanadyne, what more can you do? Truck runs great right now! But still leary about long term.

Go drive them both.. I think you will like the cummins hands down. I just test drove a few duramax's and cummins last week. The duramax seems weeker across teh whole rpm band. However if you want an auto.. maybe you should lean more towards a duramax/allison truck.
I personally am looking for a manual, so the dodge HD 6 speed is great for me.

I am glad I found this thread. I am trying to decide between the Duramax and the Cummins. I really want the Cummins, but the wife is adamant about OnStar. The things I have noticed are if you are looking auto, the Allison should be a good selling point. So why does GM ignore the manual market? I cannot get a GMC with a manual transmission (just checked the website). The Cummins guys seem to have an edge on mileage, but it is apples to oranges. Of course a 6-speed manual is going to more efficient than an auto. Aargh!!

you should be able to get a Duramax with the ZF-6 6 speed manual

Does anyone have the towing specs on manuals vs Autos? When I bought mine the auto had much better towing caps than the standards. I am pulling a 16K boat I needed all the towing I could get out of my 6.5 this is why I went with 2 wd and auto. Just wondered if this has changed.

the 6 speed is not really going to get better milage then the auto.the auto has a higher final drive then the 6 speed.

Comparison between Dodge Cummins and GM Duramax. I've owned both trucks!

Fuel economy
Dodge- 21 mpg unladen
Chevy 18 Mpg

Performance: Dodge peppier off the line, but both do well at towing!

Brakes: GM rear disc brakes create much better stopping power! Hoot corrected me and said Dodge has rear disc brakes! Dodge dealer told me drum brakes, but my local dealer is lame!

Sway: GM tortion spring bars make sway bars unnecessay! Handles campers much, much better!

Transmission: I love the Allison, but had no trouble with the 2001 Dodge tranny!

GM independent 4x4 front end much better ride with no side to side pitching as with Dodge solid axle design! Hated the front axle in Dodge 4 x 4!

GM Duramax injectors don't as long as spark plugs! Is it any better on the '05's?

Dodge: I had one repair to a bolt on part for the trans!
Chevy: I 've had 6 repairs for oil leaks, fuel heaters, bad connectors, bad codes, vent tubes dragging along behind the truck like a gut shot buffalo, trailer hitch bent severely at tongue weight of 1100 lbs. and now bad injectors! American quality control!

But then again Dodge sold me a new truck with more than $500.00 (much more) repaired body damage as brand new truck! After two months of fightening with Dodge, a nice (YES NICE) lawyer told me for free how to file a claim against their DMV license to sell! All of a sudden they made nice and gave me a new truck! Dodge never backed me as a customer until I threatened their DMV status! Nice huh!

I'd love a Chevy with a Cummins engine and an allison Tranny!

Takes your pick!

Dodge does have rear disc brakes since 2003.

Rear axle "anti-spin" I think is better than the Eaton Gov-Lok in the GM AAM axle.

You can still order a 6spd as of the 05 model year in a GMC,just not in an SLT.I think it all comes down to the indevidual vehicle.I drove several 01/02 CTD's{5spd and 6spd} before I bought my 01 D-Max 6spd.There was no comparasen.The D-Max was fasted all through the rpm range,and seemed to have quite a lot more torque.I pulled up a long hill we have near home here right behind an 01/02 CTD here a couple weeks ago.He had a smaller tralier,less weight and couldn't even hold the speed limit.We neither one had much of a load.I can pull that same hill with 15,000lbs+ and have no problem holding speed.I like the CTD,but just don't think in stock form it's the truck a D-Max is.Just my .02.

Well I went and drove an 05 2500 SLT Cummins/Auto- New. They drive very different from each other. You need to drive both for a day and decide on personal likes and dislikes.

Dodge ride is much stiffer, engine is very quite, trans was very smooth. Did not feel like it had the pep of my duramax's, but the 5 speed rather than a four could make it feel that way, GM is much softer ride. I liked both interiors "The true dodge crew cab coming out will help with interior size" I like the height the Dodge sits at GM are very low. Dodge is better looking.

Both are good trucks, the dodge was a few thousand less than the GM (both employee pricing).

TOUGH CHOICE GOOD LUCK!!!

Ok I don't own any of the new trucks but I have friends with all three. I don't pull much either. Here are the reasons I would pick the Dmax over any of the rest. First of all you will never beat the ride and handleing of the chevy. Second the interior, fords interior makes me want to puke it is so ugly. Dodge has come a long way with their interiors but they are still just not as comfortable as the chevys. Also you have way more interior options with the chevy. From my experience the chevy is the fastest out of the box! And it is very easy to mod a dmax and make it very fast with tons of aftermarket support. I like the fact that the chevy is the shortest. I actualy like using my bed and don't feel like lugging stuff up over my head to get them into the bed of the dodge or ford. As far as outside styling goes I like the fords. I just think the dodge is ugly. And for chevy, they look good, but cover the damn frame up!! And if you aren't going to cover the frame up with a body atleast don't put a big ugly white sticker on the side of the frame for everyone to see. And hide the emergancy brake cable!! ggeezz! lol True the dmax has had some prob. But they are getting better with fewer and fewer complaints every year. But what would you expect from a brand new design. The ford and dodge platform has been out for years!! But like some has said before me, drive them all and see what feels comfy to you! Another thing to consider is that there is tons more aftermarket eye candy out for the chevy. So if you are wanting a hot rod diesel for performance, comfort, and handling, with tons of aftermarket options, then get the dmax. If you want to pull building up the side of a mountain then buy a dodge. If you want to be stupid, buy the ford! lol jk jk jk please don't kill me for that statement! :-)

Hoot,

I went to a Dodge dealer two weeks ago and they said they still had rear drum brakes! Not arguing! Could they be that dumb at the dealer?

Hoot,

I went to a Dodge dealer two weeks ago and they said they still had rear drum brakes! Not arguing! Could they be that dumb at the dealer?

Dumb dealer? Oxymooron Maybe they thought you asked about the light duty trucks? I don't even know if they're drum or disc.

http://www.getdieselpower.com/my04dodge_files/h2/images/DSCN5149.jpg

Ok I don't own any of the new trucks but I have friends with all three. I don't pull much either. Here are the reasons I would pick the Dmax over any of the rest. First of all you will never beat the ride and handleing of the chevy. Second the interior, fords interior makes me want to puke it is so ugly. Dodge has come a long way with their interiors but they are still just not as comfortable as the chevys. Also you have way more interior options with the chevy. From my experience the chevy is the fastest out of the box! And it is very easy to mod a dmax and make it very fast with tons of aftermarket support. I like the fact that the chevy is the shortest. I actualy like using my bed and don't feel like lugging stuff up over my head to get them into the bed of the dodge or ford. As far as outside styling goes I like the fords. I just think the dodge is ugly. And for chevy, they look good, but cover the damn frame up!! And if you aren't going to cover the frame up with a body atleast don't put a big ugly white sticker on the side of the frame for everyone to see. And hide the emergancy brake cable!! ggeezz! lol True the dmax has had some prob. But they are getting better with fewer and fewer complaints every year. But what would you expect from a brand new design. The ford and dodge platform has been out for years!! But like some has said before me, drive them all and see what feels comfy to you! Another thing to consider is that there is tons more aftermarket eye candy out for the chevy. So if you are wanting a hot rod diesel for performance, comfort, and handling, with tons of aftermarket options, then get the dmax. If you want to pull building up the side of a mountain then buy a dodge. If you want to be stupid, buy the ford! lol jk jk jk please don't kill me for that statement! :-)


That is an excellent assesment. Eye candy?... how much do you need?

GM's frame and low stance .... waited and waited for them to design that out of it.. Looks like low frames, IFS and shortlived injection systems is a GM trademark forever.

Drive them all...... I did when looking for a new diesel.... The duramax is quiet and has good pull, just as the Cummins..... The powerstroke was good on the power too, but terribly noisy.... I don't ever see myself owning anything but a Dodge and have been happy with all my chrysler products since my first in 1987,

That is an excellent assesment. Eye candy?... how much do you need?

GM's frame and low stance .... waited and waited for them to design that out of it.. Looks like low frames, IFS and shortlived injection systems is a GM trademark forever.
Ok Hoot, did you forget about the Cummins HPCR system, and the fact that it has BOSCH injectors also? And there is nothing wrong with the GM Stance. Go offroading sometime, and you will be suprised how well the GM will do. The SFA is the dinosaur here, sure it is reliable, but so is the IFS, and you cant beat the ride!!
Just my 2 cents.
Will

{Williambos} I'll add to your 3 peddles and 2 shifters statement.As much as I like Chevy and won't drive anything else,real trucks also have solid axels.Like my 67 K30):h . Put them in the rock and see which one wheels the best.Just my experience,but you are right the GM ride can't be beat.:D

Ok Hoot, did you forget about the Cummins HPCR system, and the fact that it has BOSCH injectors also? And there is nothing wrong with the GM Stance. Go offroading sometime, and you will be suprised how well the GM will do. The SFA is the dinosaur here, sure it is reliable, but so is the IFS, and you cant beat the ride!!
Just my 2 cents.
Will

Knock on wood I haven't had an injector failure ever. 72,000 miles in the traded Dmax and 25,000 so far on this Cummins. Yes I sure do know the injection sytems are the same but the injectors are much different. They are fed through a solid plumbed system compared to the Dmax and I believe are much more reliable overall.

I don't say GM suspension is bad. Can't they come up with a decent frame design though that's not a sled?

Thanks for the correction Hoot! Looks like a 1 ton with Disc brakes to me! If I told you all the dumb things my local dealer did to my 2001 diesel you wouldn't believe it! Let's start with putting on overload springs with no bumper brackets for them to ride on under load, a bedliner that blew out on the highway and a tool left on the engine! Other than that I was quite happy with them!

Did you agree with my earlier comparison! I like both trucks, depending on usage! I miss the Cummins mileage!

What do you know about '05 Duramax injectors? Corrected or still a problem?

Thanks for the correction Hoot! Looks like a 1 ton with Disc brakes to me! If I told you all the dumb things my local dealer did to my 2001 diesel you wouldn't believe it! Let's start with putting on overload springs with no bumper brackets for them to ride on under load, a bedliner that blew out on the highway and a tool left on the engine! Other than that I was quite happy with them!

Did you agree with my earlier comparison! I like both trucks, depending on usage! I miss the Cummins mileage!

What do you know about '05 Duramax injectors? Corrected or still a problem?

Dave, that's my 2500. It's SRW.

05 Injectors? Who knows? Where's the factory people in these places when the seriuos questions are asked... not.. "how much hp will we have next year"

Here is my point on the striaght axle front end!! How many of you buy a new truck to take it 4wheeling? And if so how many of you actually take it in the rocks. The most 4 wheeling that I have ever seen anyone do in a brand new truck is take it through the mudd. And in that case the gm ifs is much better to have than the dodge straight axle. You get more ground clearence in the middle where you need it most in the mudd. So with that said I bet 99% of most new trucks are driven the most on the road. So wouldn't you rather have a truck that rides and handles better where you use it most? People complain about the ifs being weak, when is the last time you saw a tie rod or a cv shaft break from pulling a trailer down an interstate or even a back road. My point is that new trucks aren't designed to go off road to a sever extent. And the chevy will hold its on against any ford or dodge with the straight axle in the terrain that they will most likely see.

Here is my point on the striaght axle front end!! How many of you buy a new truck to take it 4wheeling? And if so how many of you actually take it in the rocks. The most 4 wheeling that I have ever seen anyone do in a brand new truck is take it through the mudd. And in that case the gm ifs is much better to have than the dodge straight axle. You get more ground clearence in the middle where you need it most in the mudd. So with that said I bet 99% of most new trucks are driven the most on the road. So wouldn't you rather have a truck that rides and handles better where you use it most? People complain about the ifs being weak, when is the last time you saw a tie rod or a cv shaft break from pulling a trailer down an interstate or even a back road. My point is that new trucks aren't designed to go off road to a sever extent. And the chevy will hold its on against any ford or dodge with the straight axle in the terrain that they will most likely see.

Very true.

I like the way the straight axle tends to force the designers into a taller truck to fit the axle under it. I also like the larger wheel well openings in the Dodge and Fords.

Talk to the farm boys and oil field workers. Guy out here (Kauffmans Performance) had a few GM HD's for his pipeline business. He went back to straight axle 4x4's because he claimed the undersides of his trucks would get packed with mud. He claims he sometimes picked his trucks up with a crane just to clean the packed mud out from under the trucks. Between the fragile switch (NSBU) on the side of the Allison that fails when it gets wet, the antilock brake unit (wire connectors and all) attached to the frame rail and the little radiator fuel cooler, what was GM thinking in terms of water and mud situations?

True that is a downside to the ifs, but the fact still stands that they do better in the mud regardless of how much cleaning you have to do. But for that matter no diesel does good in the mud because of the weight. I too like the larger wheel openings but not the height. The tall trucks just make it harder to get in and out of and harder to get stuff in an out of. And believe it or not every truck on the road is going to be independent before long. So with that said that puts gm way ahead of ford and dodge! haha jk jk But honestly if jeep converted the cherokee to ifs don't you think their trucks will be soon to follow. I mean jeeps new concept with the twin hemis is ifs, that is a tall tail sign of what direction dodge trucks will take in the next few years. Maybe one day gm will get smart and start using an independent suspension more closely engineered after the hummer! Now that would be nice and even then I bet your dodge and ford boys wouldn't be talking junk about ifs! hehe And by the way I am very impressed with the ability of every one to keep this thread going this long with no arguments!! Nice job, lets keep it up, and remember no matter what brand we are loyal to they all have their faults and none are perfect! :-)

Hoot,

I went to a Dodge dealer two weeks ago and they said they still had rear drum brakes! Not arguing! Could they be that dumb at the dealer?

Could they be that dumb at the dealer? YES Dodge went to disc rear brakes on the 2500/ 3500s in 2001.5 a half year change. :duh:

Maybe one day gm will get smart and start using an independent suspension more closely engineered after the hummer! Now that would be nice and even then I bet your dodge and ford boys wouldn't be talking junk about ifs!
I don't know what your experience is with Humvee suspension, or how closely you've looked at one, but I think it Definitely leaves a lot to be desired. Its one of those looks great on paper, but not so good in the field kinda things. The reverse rotating half shafts, gear reduction inside the knuckles and brake rotors next to the pumpkin design adds up to a numb feeling while driving. There's no feel to it at all, and it wasn't designed to be the 'best' 4wd system, just the 'cheapest'.

I don't know what your experience is with Humvee suspension, or how closely you've looked at one, but I think it Definitely leaves a lot to be desired. Its one of those looks great on paper, but not so good in the field kinda things. The reverse rotating half shafts, gear reduction inside the knuckles and brake rotors next to the pumpkin design adds up to a numb feeling while driving. There's no feel to it at all, and it wasn't designed to be the 'best' 4wd system, just the 'cheapest'.

One of the "cheap" features is the rear control arms are the same as the fronts so they could keep parts counts low and allow more parts interchange in the field. I'm sure that the rears would normally be designed different in the back if it wasn't for this commonality requirement.

Yea I havn't looked at it too much. What I was implying was that it was a strong setup!! I figured it couldn't drive too good! lol

the dodge sounds great ! sign me up for a long bed mega cab dually with
on star like ability :o:

I JUST GOT RID OF MY 04.5 d/A CREW CAB LONG BOX LT 4X4 DUALLY , THE GM DEALER COULDNT FIX THE BRAKE PROBLEMS AND THE AC COULDNT GET UNDER 75 , THE FRAME FLEXED TOO MUCH WITH THE GOOSENECK PULLING A DUMP TRAILOR ,THE EMERGANCY BRAKE ONLY WORKED 3 TIMES IT WAS ONLY 11 MO OLD . SO I TRADED IT IN FOR AN 05 DC 48RE CREW CAB LONG BOX 4X4 DUALLY AT LEAST U GET A TUBUALR FRAME RATHER THAN ,A HALF A FRAME , U GET A BIGGER EXHAUST A BETTER BEEFED UP FRONT END BIGGER TIRES 235 80 17S 4.10 RATHER THAN THE LAME 3.73 THAT RUNS TOO HOT AND BLOWS SEALS AND BEARINGS THERES MORE ROOM UNDER THE HOOD OF THE DC ,U DONT HAVE ALL THOSE SKINNY TUBES AND PIPES THAT ARE UP AGAINST WIRES ,U DONT HAVE THE UGLY BUBBLE BUT THATS EASY TO CATCH A CORNER OF SOMETHING , 325 HP 610 TQ, STRAIGHT 6 , INJECTORS EASY TO GET TO , NICER FUEL FILTER 48RE IS MADE BY ALLISON ITS A NAG U GET TWO HUGE BATTERIES WITH THE DC RATHER THAN TWO LITTLE DELCOS

Going From Pa To Tenn U See Mostly Ram Duallys Then Ford Then Gms In Pulling Contests U See Mostly Dc Then Fords Then Gms . Theres Got To Be A Reason U Never See A Gm Out Pull A Cummings Or A Power Stroke , My Wifes Brother, He Likes Ford Duallys With Power Strokes He Went Up Against His Friends Duramax They Chained Up And He Pulled The Rear End Off The Gm Dually Hes Pretty Crazy I Didnt Pay Much Attention Till My Gmc Rear Dually Wheels Started To Look Twisted Up .

Here in Kennedys test, the results look a little diff. I know there isn't many stock trucks in there, I think there is one of each and from what I saw the duramax did the best all around! http://www.kennedydiesel.com/ Scroll till you see anual pull off or something like that. Here in my area we have an anual truck pull twice a year. They hook trucks back to back on concrete and the best 2 out of three wins. In the past two years I have started to see some more duramax's there and they are holding thier own really well. I have seen just as many cummins trucks and powerstrokes get pulled as I have duramax's. And I honestly have seen more dodges and fords break than I did the Chevrolets. But we each have our own experiences so that is why it is important to drive each and pick the one that fits, and performs the way you like. No matter what you get your gonna have to fix stuff, and there is no one brand truck out there that takes more fixing than the other. Its manufactoring and you are going to have problems. That is why every year warrentys get longer and longer!

Even In Stock It Easy To Get Ets Over 1200 With Duramax Allison Pulling A Lite Load And Close To 1200, Without Any Load . U Spend 50000 On A Heavy Duty Truck , Then U Have To Upgrade Everything On It Like The Tie Rod Sleeves , The Shocks, The Batteries , The Tires , The Intake ,the Exhaust On And On And It Still Has Problems .

Allison does not make the 48RE U dupa

Dmaxes are right up there in the sled pulls... in street class.

There are no modified class Dmaxes sled pulling that I know of.

allison uses the hoot method on the 48re , the tech said the 48re is a nag , if u look up nag tranny ,u will see allison makes a 4 speed automatic tranny , thats all the info i could find ,i like the allison tranny i have one in my c4500 dump truck mated to the 8.1i liked the allison in my 3500 too bad ,all the other systems in my gmc didnt hold up like the tranny ,when your in business and u rely on your trucks, if a truck is unrelyable u get rid of it , thats what i did and got an 05 ram quad cab long box dually 4x4 325hp 610 tq ,17inch tires ,huge exhaust,full tubualr frame and the allison 48re

I do not think the 48re is a Allison. Joe Webb has never said that to me before and since he does both, I would expect that would be old news if true.

The Allison IMO is the best auto and from what little I have heard the TorgueShift or whatever the Ford unit is has been good too. The 48re I have not heard of a failure in stock trucks. Not saying they haven't failed, or course they have, but meaning, not many people complaining like in the 47 days.

The Annual Pull off is a great read. The only issue I have with any of them is while they load identical and provide acceleration comparison's they leave off the most important aspect of a diesel for me. Why not run a manual truck at a steady 65mph (good heavy tow speed) and hit the hill with the cruise on. See who pulls it the best before having to drop a gear? Then do the same with the Auto's and notate when the auto downshifted, at what RPM/speed it occured etc.

One thing I didn't think about was total length. My wife would rather give up some rear seat room for overall length as long as the Dodge Quad is big enough. Luckily for me she still loves her 98 with 200k on it. :lol:

Yea that is what I was thinking about the pull off too. Let them get the speed up at the bottome to about 60 or 65 and see who can hold the highest speed at the crest of the hill. Now that is what a diesel is made to do, not to accelerate hard!

I would argue that a straight axle is a simpler design and less troublesome for a farm 4x4 that's off the road a lot, but for the average guy who drives his truck 95% in 2 WD on the highway, the IFS rides so much better! It avoids the pitching from side to side when you hit a bump with one front wheel! The tortion bar front supsension is much better resisting sway! (Look at the rig I got in the "For Sale" section - no sway bar - just stock!) It has very little or no sway on the highway! On rough dirt roads I just go slow and easy! I've had both front ends and which is better is based on your use and how much ride means to you! When I was 25, I didn't care about ride! Now I'm 63, I wear my baseball hat with the bill facing forward, and I like a nice ride!

Look out for Toyota if they enter the heavy duty pickup market

I don't know where some of you get your info from but Allison has absolutely NOTHING to do with the 48RE Chrysler automatic. Two totally seperate companies and two totally different transmissions.

DavidTD,

They finally really did straighten out the durability issues with the automatic. It takes a good beating... like the old days Torqflite. We used to thrash those transmissions. Mash the peddle THEN drop it in drive. I wouldn't do that to this one but overall you don't here of many isuues at all.




DaimlerChrysler Kokomo Indiana Transmission Plant


Location
2401 South Reed Road, Kokomo, Indiana 46904-9007

Floor Space
3.1 Million Square Feet

Acreage
110 Acre Site with Casting Plant

Products
Transmissions - 4RE (RWD) - 42RLE (RWD) - 48RE (RWD) - 40TE (FWD) - 41TE (FWD)

Employment
4,200 Employees

Training Hours
20,000 Hours (2003)

Plant History
Transmission plant completed and production began in 1956. There have been seven additions since then.

Look out for Toyota if they enter the heavy duty pickup market
There is a rumor giong around that they are doing just that. We'll just have to see if it materializes.

Look out for Toyota if they enter the heavy duty pickup market


Now don't tell me you'd buy a Toyota just to avoid constant repairs! What an attitude!

Only one person has mentioned the fuel comparison. Are they that close.