i was wondering which is better edm or extrude honed injector tips? my plan is to get some 45% over injectors in the motor i am building

Extrude hone would be my choice.

Extrude hone would be my choice.
WHY?

I had 2 hole edm tips in my 03,thay ran good (2 holes at .010 = 23 % over) so 4 holes ends up being in the 46 % range,edm tips smoke like hell (cold), I think honed + - 1 % is the way to go ?? Rager Z had some 4 hole edm tips ? Thay do work,by the way I think ATS had edm tips,all holes at .010 wow 118 % over :eek:

Give me a call and ill fill you in better.

I have the extrude honed tips on my truck and I like them.

I have the extrude honed tips on my truck and I like them.
ANY SMOKE AT IDLE OR AT WOT? HOW MANY % OVER STOCK?

ANY SMOKE AT IDLE OR AT WOT? HOW MANY % OVER STOCK?

No smoke at idle unless I'm on my smoke tune. At wide open throttle on my stock tune and tow tune I have a puff of smoke. On my big street tune I get a slight puff from a dead stop with me punching the accelerator. On my sled tune it somes a little bit. Mark has tuned my truck to hardly smoke at all. My nozzles are 60% over. Nozzles are a good idea they'll help your truck run smoother and can help the live of your engine if tuned properly

Extrude hone definatly.

We ran edm'd 4 holes .10 over and ran 11.07 with lp and spray, they smoked like crazy at idle. We switched to honed tips smoke at idle was down and performance was up.Honed is our choice.NLDP

We ran edm'd 4 holes .10 over and ran 11.07 with lp and spray, they smoked like crazy at idle. We switched to honed tips smoke at idle was down and performance was up.Honed is our choice.NLDP
X 2 Go with honed

What is the hp with 45% more flow?If wanting to run Don M what hp would equal around 45% over?

Our honed injectors went 11.20 on fuel with tuning from 2003 , with twin pumps and A5k. Very driveable also.NLDP

All injectors start life as a EDM. That is the process that is used to make the injectors nozzle. The issue comes from not spending the time to get the proper hole size and finish from running the EDM too fast. The EH finish comes out nicer but will not cut a true hole. We prefer to use the EDM to get the holes right then the EH to finish them up. As long as you stay below 40 % or so the EH works fine but a propley done EDM will too. Anything bigger than 45% we feel should be a EDM process finished off with the EH process.

what does it cost if you have in box reman injectors.

You can get pricing and info here http://www.hdiesel.com/product.asp?id=140.

The EDM process is taking a wire and making or enlarging the nozzle holes. If you are not careful you can change the angle of the hole. With Extrude Honing you are pushing a fluid through the nozzle and that fluid polishes any restrictions. The Extrude Honing will clean up any rough edges left behind from the EDM process.

Call jim at extrude hone,724-978-7211. Quick turnaround, good prices.

I've been very happy with the work done by Extrude Hone on my nozzles

I know it is a little off subject but what hp injectors would equal 45-50% over?
If any one could answer that question it would be appreciated.
Thanks

If your injectors really flow 50% over that should get you about 1200 Hp.

1200 with a stock CP3?

I have a lbz with a stock cp3 was looking into Don m injectors and they come in hp levels insted of % levels.

Think about what your asking. Is a set of "50hp" injectors going to give a stock turbo, single cp3 truck and a truck with a, lets say A5K both and duel cp3s 50hp?
Ask Don M what % is injectors are.

1200 Hp is what the injectors @ 50 over can do, NOT what everything else can do, you need the supporting modifications.

1200 Hp is what the injectors @ 50 over can do, NOT what everything else can do, you need the supporting modifications.


Thanks,who would you recommend to get injectors from?

;)

I think rating the injectors in "hp" is dumb for many reasons.

My bigger injectors are extrude honed I believe and they are beautiful. Lower EGT's, run very clean on the street, and the engine starts pulling MUCH harder lower in the rpm range now. With stock injectors and the same tune if I rolled into it at 1600rpm in 5th, converter locked, it would rattle and not really pull at all until ~1850rpm or so. Now with the bigger injectors it will start pulling hard at 1650 or so, much more cummins-like. :)

JMO.

ben

Ask Don M what % is injectors are.

How come I'm sensing a entertaining answer??

Think about what your asking. Is a set of "50hp" injectors going to give a stock turbo, single cp3 truck and a truck with a, lets say A5K both and duel cp3s 50hp?
Ask Don M what % is injectors are.

The question was what hp injector would equal to a 45% over injector?

The question was what hp injector would equal to a 45% over injector?
You would have to ask the company that rates them by hp what % they are. And if they tell you they don't know call a different shop.

You would have to ask the company that rates them by hp what % they are. And if they tell you they don't know call a different shop.

I heard Industrial Injection makes some awesome injectors. ;)

I heard Industrial Injection makes some awesome injectors. ;)

What kind are you running?

What kind are you running?

Kennedy 40% extrude hone.

How long have you had them and are you satisfied with them?

How long have you had them and are you satisfied with them?


2 years and very satisfied.

Thanks for the input.

So what size hp or % honed can a stock or say a slightly modded LBZ Cp3 handle? Ill be running twins. Its a daily driver/weekend play toy. Dont want to go to big but dont wanna wish I went bigger either.. Rougly how much RWHP is gained on a 30-40% nozzle.

go with 60% overs. the lb7s have 20% larger holes to start with

go with 60% overs. the lb7s have 20% larger holes to start with
60% over?? Good lord thats some fuel. Why so much?

Does anyone offer an exchange service for the nozzles ?? I'd hate to have my truck down for a week plus while they are in transit etc. Give me a second here and I'll fill out the sig too.....

Does anyone offer an exchange service for the nozzles ?? I'd hate to have my truck down for a week plus while they are in transit etc. Give me a second here and I'll fill out the sig too.....

X2

Here's the sig.....not sure why it didn't upload to my first post.

Over night them.

Over night them.

True.....I just think it would be significantly easier to do if somebody had an exchange program where the tips show up....you swap them out.....and you send back your OEM tips. From what I understand it's hard to come across good LMM tips.......or at least inexpensive :D

I won't do the exchange thing because I won't be part of giving out someone else's junk. It's too hard to gauge the condition beyond how much fuel flows through the holes. I do them exchange as received OR better yet new nozzles altogether. Availability has been good for LB7 and spotty for LLY and LBZ, but I just need to get off my ass and get after my suppliers.

As John said using someone else's just leads to problems. Using new nozzles solves that but many are not willing to spend the extra money. This is a case where cheaper is not better and since it's the motor your going to hurt do not pinch pennies on them.

60% Extrude honed injectors going in my new motor

60% Extrude honed injectors going in my new motor


Good lord.. Thats a lot of fuel. Do you daily drive that or is it just a sled truck

Good lord.. Thats a lot of fuel. Do you daily drive that or is it just a sled truck
60% over LBZs are like 45% LB7s.

Also one thing to remember is no 2 companies rate the % over the same way. 50% over does not always mean you get 50% more fuel flow, so you need to ask your supplier what your really getting. A stock Duramax be it a LB7 or LBZ can be properly tuned to daily drive with an injector that flows 50% more fuel just as nicely as a stock injector does.

So does anyone have any LMM tips or are they the same as LBZs?

It takes alot of fuel to make 900hp.
This truck gets driven for any reason but only about 8,000 miles a year. I have another truck for daily driving but this one is the daily driver until my 06 is back together

Are LBZ and LMM injectors the same?

I can't say if an LBZ tip will go on an LMM injector, but I know an LMM injector tip has 6 holes and an LBZ injector tip has 7.

Does anyone know the factory size (hole size) of the nozzles in the different series motors? (LB7 LLY etc)

Are all the Dmax injectors 7 hole except the LMM?

I'm getting 60% Extrude Honed injectors in the near future.

You have a point about the exchange system....that and I don't relish swapping out my 10k injector tips for a set of clapped out ones. So......I'm in the market for 40% extrude honed tips.....vendors please PM me a price quote...thanks.

You have a point about the exchange system....that and I don't relish swapping out my 10k injector tips for a set of clapped out ones. So......I'm in the market for 40% extrude honed tips.....vendors please PM me a price quote...thanks.

X2....Not ready right this minute to buy some but will be in a month or so. Putting back money for turbo(s) and like to do em all at once.

so if 60 over on an lb7 is like 80 over on lbz or are they both the same size when done 60 over LBZ 45 over LB7

X2....Not ready right this minute to buy some but will be in a month or so. Putting back money for turbo(s) and like to do em all at once.

What size you gonna go with?

I'm getting 60% Extrude Honed injectors in the near future.

Just curious, why so big??

What size you gonna go with?
Probily just the 40%. Really dont see why Id need to go any bigger.

I'm tuning a LMM with LBZ tips. Works well with tuning.

Just curious, why so big??

The truck is starving for fuel at higher rpms. It makes light smoke when launching and clears up shortly after. I'd run 45% if I had the stock turbo but since I got the Cheetah I'm told I should run 60%.

I have 50% over nozzles from Crank it Up and they are real close to the same performance of an edge hot juice with attitude on the 4th setting. I believe that is supposed to be 125 hp.

Jeff

I'm tuning a LMM with LBZ tips. Works well with tuning.



Stock LBZ tips? Or modified ones? I wonder why GM went with less holes on the LMM...?

I'm tuning a LMM with LBZ tips. Works well with tuning.

David's?

Also one thing to remember is no 2 companies rate the % over the same way. 50% over does not always mean you get 50% more fuel flow, so you need to ask your supplier what your really getting. A stock Duramax be it a LB7 or LBZ can be properly tuned to daily drive with an injector that flows 50% more fuel just as nicely as a stock injector does.

How true is that. I get a lot of guys looking to have a tune written with so and so injectors and it's just a crap shoot. Little hint: You don't need mongo injectors, but a good injector will not smoke much if any at idle. Look at Foamer's DP Challenge truck for proof.


Anyhow,
Several years back when nobody was doing these (even before twin cp3's) I took the initiative to have my modified nozzles test run on actual injectors. I spent thousands but I know what we are getting hence the off the wall number of 45%. Guess I should have kept my mouth shut about the number...

I'm running a set of Kennedy Diesel 40 over nozzles in my truck. The tuning at idle has not been changed and the truck doesn't smoke at idle.

I'm running a set of Kennedy Diesel 40 over nozzles in my truck. The tuning at idle has not been changed and the truck doesn't smoke at idle.

X2

Does anyone know how Jim at extrude hone tests his nozzles?

I don't know but am told you are better off if you can get someone to test the entire injector and nozzle as a unit.

I'm tuning a LMM with LBZ tips. Works well with tuning.


Care to share who Rob... anyone we know?

Ive got 60% over SoCal injectors, we will see how they are in a week or so I hope.

And yes you need to make sure your injectors are being tested at full flow and pressure.... and yes SoCal does this ;)

LBZ injectors suck to take out. Oh well, sending mine to Extrude Hone tomorrow. Also, its a good time to delete your EGR if you're changing out your injectors.

LBZ injectors suck to take out. Oh well, sending mine to Extrude Hone tomorrow. Also, its a good time to delete your EGR if you're changing out your injectors.
I've got a LB7 here you are more than welcome to have at! You are lucky you have a LBZ.

I didn't do the injectors on that LMM, just tuning, but yes, he is a member here.

Whom ever you have do your injectors, be sure they can flow test, balance and check the spray pattern at WOT pressures and pulse widths for your application. If the company can actually do this, they should have no trouble providing a flow sheet. Extrude hone does not.

Attached is a pic of an injector that was extrude honed and sent back to the customer. Apparently a piece of media blocked off one of the holes during the extrude process. The customer chased this around on his ill running truck and finally sent us the injectors for diagnosis.

Far and away the best possible thing is to flow test the entire injector body. The nozzles can flow all kinds of numbers but what does it really mean? One hole being very larger while others are all over the place versus all holes the same size can and do flow the same value. So its just not a nozzle flow that you have to worry about but it is part of it for sure. You need to know the hole size and hole angle and the total flow to know where the nozzle really is.

Do not think for a minute that the injector bodys all flow the same either, they do not. We have seen a range of about 20% (+/- 10%) just in the bodys themselves. So a complete done package injector properly tested and adjusted is going to cost a lot more than a flow matched set of nozzle tips.

Whom ever you have do your injectors, be sure they can flow test, balance and check the spray pattern at WOT pressures and pulse widths for your application. If the company can actually do this, they should have no trouble providing a flow sheet. Extrude hone does not.

Attached is a pic of an injector that was extrude honed and sent back to the customer. Apparently a piece of media blocked off one of the holes during the extrude process. The customer chased this around on his ill running truck and finally sent us the injectors for diagnosis.

So how much do you charge to do injectors say 30-40%?

I should have been more clear in my previous post, the bodies and the tips need to be tested and calibrated as a unit.

Under Diesel Place rules I'm not allowed to post prices. PM sent.

Guy

Isn't it about $90-100/inj. to properly test and balance the complete injector w/ nozzle?

I know one thing, if I run something non-stock, they'll be properly flowed and tested before going in the engine, period. It's non negotiable.


C-ya

Yeah thats what is holding me up now.Should have done it when the motor was out.

Got my injectors out on Sunday, they arrived at extrude hone on Wednesday and got them back on Friday. Ridiculous turnaround time! Gonna put them in tomorrow.

Got my injectors out on Sunday, they arrived at extrude hone on Wednesday and got them back on Friday. Ridiculous turnaround time! Gonna put them in tomorrow.

Cool, Jim do them? Let us know how they turn out

Roughly how much rwhp is gained with a 40% nozzle?

Way to many variables to be able to easily answer that question.

Way to many variables to be able to easily answer that question.

I was just looking for a rough estimate

0-150hp

0-150hp


Lol thanks!

I'm tuning a LMM with LBZ tips. Works well with tuning.
So whats the advantages running LBZ tips on LMM injectors?

Got my injectors out on Sunday, they arrived at extrude hone on Wednesday and got them back on Friday. Ridiculous turnaround time! Gonna put them in tomorrow.
Well?????

Got the wrong o-rings shipped to me so didn't get the truck back together til Wednesday. Nick tuned it yesterday. It changed everything about the truck. It has a whole new set of noises. The turbo sounds different, the motor sounds different, and overall it sounds meaner. It has good road manners haze wise but smokes better than before. We did a 4hi launch and the front end lifted and jerked sideways. I thought the centerlink was going to break. Mileage stayed the same from what I can tell. Now the only problem I have is traction related.

Got the wrong o-rings shipped to me so didn't get the truck back together til Wednesday. Nick tuned it yesterday. It changed everything about the truck. It has a whole new set of noises. The turbo sounds different, the motor sounds different, and overall it sounds meaner. It has good road manners haze wise but smokes better than before. We did a 4hi launch and the front end lifted and jerked sideways. I thought the centerlink was going to break. Mileage stayed the same from what I can tell. Now the only problem I have is traction related.

So how much harder does it pull? Power range better through the rpms?? Those noises good sounding or bad lol.. You did 60% right?

Yes, 60%. The noises are good. The power range is wider now, it pulls a lot harder through the whole power band.

Yes, 60%. The noises are good. The power range is wider now, it pulls a lot harder through the whole power band.


Who did yours?

Extrude Hone.