After researching and sending out a half dozen e-mails. I believe that I will be ordering the marine injectors from SSD. My stock injectors now have 199K miles on them and I believe they are costing me performance and economy. The marines are about $200 more than factory replacements, and if they deliver 25 of the 40hp they claim over factory I would consider them a good value. The part of this that really grinds on me is that there is no dyno data any where to back up anybody's claims on hp improvements from sellers. I have read many posts here that claim aftermarket injectors are no better than factory or that the improvement was not worth the extra dough. Seat of the pants is not a good enough guage for my hundred's of dollars. I have desided on the SSD's becuase they have given the most and least vuage information, and have the best price. I'm putting this out before I lay out the cash to see if anyone has some rock solid info on what the best injector option is.

Okay, I've got a question here on marine injectors. What makes them different? Different spray, opening pressure or what? Seems to me, you are still at the mercy of the IP. Until you get more actual fuel delievery, injectors either way won't make a hoot. Am I correct in this assumption?

Fuel from the IP has to over come the closing device in the injector to release the fuel so a combination of spring force( or whatever is holding the injector closed) needle shape, orafice size and shape are all contributors to performance of the injectors. New diesels get more power out of less fuel so quantity can not be the only factor in producing power.

Marine/high pop/HO injectors are set to "pop" at a higher pressure. Therefore, better atomization of the fuel and a better burn. You need an upgraded engine to take advantage (ECM, exhaust, CAC, etc.). Otherwise, you won't see any gain.

I ll add this , and from my experience what I ve seen. Think of it this way. You have a large fire hose and a small garden hose. If you have only 10 psi of water pressure, its not going to make a difference if you have either hose hooked up if you have the same 10 psi attached to either one. As for claims of 40 + hp, that maybe possible over stock engines, if you have the rest of the system to pump up the power. If your just replacing a set of stock injectors on a stock truck, I doubt if you will notice any difference if your original injectors are functioning as they should. MDT if your injectors are that old ( mine are 140,000 and I am looking to replace them and did research on it during the process ) you might notice an increase in power and mileage , just because the injectors are possibly worn out, and not from the fact that they are HIGH PERFORMANCE injectors. From the amount of people I ve talked to about this the common consensus is that stock injectors offer the same bang for buck as the Marine injectors do, unless you have a totally modified truck setup.

If you do change them out , let me know how you like them. I am getting ready to make a cold air IC as one of the last steps in modifying my truck before I install injectors.

Thanks and good luck

Spin, which HO injectors are you using? Except for the injectors it looks like we have alot of the same mods. Do you know how much HP you are making?

Spindrift's new injectors made so much power, It blew itself up...

Higher pressure means the pump is going to have to work harder to pump the same quanity of fuel so less fuel is going to be injected. Only problem is the pump ain't going to put out any more fuel. Save your money and buy some new Delphi injectors.

DeiselPro,
If the truck were running a 93mm3 IP/reflash do you think it'd be worth it? or a turned up 4911?

I like mechanical over electrical anytime. Electronic has it's advantages, but the DS pump is a major drawback in cost and reliability..

Spindrift's new injectors made so much power, It blew itself up...
Thanks to Billy, I once again find myself rolling on the floor in laughter. Then, laughter turns to uncontrollable balling. I'll have a better idea later this week what caused the major dump.

Won't venture a guess as to what HP gain I realized from the HO injectors. But, all in all, the Burb could kick some real booty. Prior to the Mickey trip, I was looking forward to spinnin' the rollers and providing a performance report. Obviously, that plan is on hold.

Thanks to Billy, I once again find myself rolling on the floor in laughter. Then, laughter turns to uncontrollable balling. I'll have a better idea later this week what caused the major dump.

Won't venture a guess as to what HP gain I realized from the HO injectors. But, all in all, the Burb could kick some real booty. Prior to the Mickey trip, I was looking forward to spinnin' the rollers and providing a performance report. Obviously, that plan is on hold.Guess I'm next on the list, if it's going to happen I hope it happens soon only 1800 miles left on 100K GM block warranty. HO for me did not seem to "wake- up" until adding reflash, don't know if the reflash was the main adder or the combination. As far as HO working or not must be some merit to them, as every Diesel out there GM, Ford, Dodge, VW has an HO offering but in my experience I believe you need the other mods & 1st as well, to see any marked bang for buck.

Factory new or remans should be sufficient for majority out there, IMO, HO is for those who want whatever more HP they deliver at the wheel regardless of cost short of blowing engine up, "more is better" types not that I'd know nuthin bout that myself :D

So Spin, which HO injectors are you using?

Higher pressure means the pump is going to have to work harder to pump the same quanity of fuel so less fuel is going to be injected. Only problem is the pump ain't going to put out any more fuel. Save your money and buy some new Delphi injectors.The atomization of the spray from the increased 'POP' pressure is worth something all by itself compared to a old, tired, hi mileage injector, provided your pump can still make the pressure.

I understand the pump can't deliver any more fuel.

What about the Marine/Hi-Flow nozzle. Your telling me it's worth nothing?

You've said nothing positive in your posts(from what I've read) about HO Injectors.

Then you did some sort of tests and concluded that none of the injectors had increased fuel delivery over 3000 rpm.

What injectors did you test? Any Hi-Flow/Marine versions?

Whose really spinning this over 3000rpm. The useable rpm range to me is 1700-2500. That's where I'd be concerned about increased fuel delivery.

Your testing is inconclusive.

Hey SD

Glad you can see the humor in it.

Didn't mean to make you cry.


You'll be back. Better than before...

So Spin, which HO injectors are you using?
Bosch

From my research I believe the HO injectors from bosch and the marine injectors are the same item. Does any one out there have injectors on a 6.5 whether they be stock, marine, HO, or retools like JK's that are not manufactured by Bosch. The factory ones are bosch and so are the marines(just set at a higher pop). I'm not putting this out as FACT, I'm looking for clarification. I think alot of comany's out there are selling the same thing under a different name(or their name). Even though I love it, this is not a popular enough engine for there to really be 5 DIFFERENT injectors manufactured for it, all with big claims and no dyno to back it.

Billman >
I personally tested about half a dozen new nozzle assemblies on the test stand with a DS4 injection pump at 3,000 RPM. Guess what? None of the injectors put out more fuel at higher pressures. In fact raising pressure decreased fuel output. None performed better than another. All increased delivery at lower pressures, but required a drastic drop in pressure to show any increase. Did not test any "performance Hi-pops" Just tested all the available nozzles I had on hand. If the truth be known I believe they are using stock nozzles and are boring out the hole in the tip.

How many people do you know who have tested any nozzles while running on a test stand with a DS pump attached?
Do you know how much it would cost for me to test everybodies nozzle assembly? How much time? Probably several thousand dollars. Money I don't care to waste.

All GM injectors use a Zero degree spray angle. The pattern does not change with pressure increases. The Zero angle means it sprays straight out from the nozzle whereas some spray out at a slight angle, like an inverted cone. The naturally aspirated engines pop at 126bar./1827 PSI. The turbo injectors pop at 142bar/2060 PSI. The pressure is adjusted by adding or subtracting shims. A shim thickness of about 0.002" equals ~100 PSI.

Early 6.2's O SD248 nozzle 126 bar.

Short Body 6.2's OSD253 nozzle 126bar.

All 6.5's OSD304 nozzle 126bar. (turbo popped at 142 bar)

Higher pressure does not equate to more fuel. Actually put out less at much higher pressures.
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Keep it stock or buy some hi-pops from a vendor here, your choice.

As for being conclusive read the caution below.
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Anybody have their injectors ran with the pump?

Now that's what you call a matched set.

Bet nobody has done that.

Billman >
Did not test any "performance Hi-pops" Just tested all the available nozzles I had on hand. If the truth be known I believe they are using stock nozzles and are boring out the hole in the tip.



Higher pressure does not equate to more fuel. Actually put out less at much higher pressures.
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If The pump/pcm were recalibrated to ~90mm3+ output like it's suggested is possible, What about using stock "pops" and boring out the nozzle tips.
Any possible injury/gain?

Try and let us know.

I've read your caution and found it to be very true.

I have not personally tested, or know anybody that has tested any injector on a test stand.

I'm not interested in how much it would cost either.

I'm not making claims, or giving advice from inconclusive testing. I'll leave that to the rest of the self proclaimed Pros.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Aren't you hounding CR for his nozzle tip number?

I can't find it. Somebody here is.

There must be a reason for this, No?

Curious about your test results?


My choice will be Hi-Flows...

I'd like anybody to tear down one of there "Hiflow-Hi pop" nozzles and post the part number. The number is on the tip unless they grind the number off.

Nobody flow tests 6.5 nozzles. They are all pop tested only.

My test results showed no improvement from stock settings, so there was nothing to show. I wish there was, because I was very disappointed. I spent quite a few hours setting up the equipment and standardizing each test at various pressures. 3,000 RPM was chosen as my base RPM as I considered this to be the optimum operating speed using the most fuel and RPM's as normally seen in the 6.5L. Other speeds where considered and tried to a limited extent.

I ran each nozzle assembly 1,000 strokes , 3,000 eng. RPM. The pressures ranged from 1,600 PSI to 2,600 PSI in 200 PSI increments.

I did not test any "HI-POP" Injectors. Any test doing that would require testing all currently available injectors. It would also create havoc with forum sponsors for which I have the utmost respect. I won't publish such results.

Buy from the sponsors here, they make this site possible. I just don't endorse anybody, but I do have reservations about A1customs- all bad.