Okay, I've read the FAQ's and I still don't get it. Can I vent my crankacase with a simple road draft tube? Also, can I delete the EGR without buying a chip?

Thanks for putting up with a newbie. I love my 6.5, glad I bought it.

CDR, keep it the way GM designed it. EGR question... depends on year of your truck and so on... Fill out your signature so we know what you have :)

CDR, keep it the way GM designed it. EGR question... depends on year of your truck and so on... Fill out your signature so we know what you have :)

What's the purpose of EGR ?

EGR: Exhaust Gas Regulator.

Basically, it takes the already spent fuel and air from your exhaust and vents it back into the engine as an emisions control componant. But like everything else, the more you try to control the emisions and polution the more the engine suffers. Most people just block off the EGR with a plate.

Dont delete the CDR. I dont know that having the EGR hurts anything. I hooked the egr and the rest of the emissions stuff back up on my 79 pinto (see signature) and it runs better than ever now. Granted that is a gasoline engine but still.

What's the purpose of EGR ?

Exhaust Gas recirculation. It does exactly what it sounds like it does.

The CDR helps to prevent oil leaks as its mounting location(pre turbo post air filter) causes a vacuum to be drawn on the crankcase, and preventing front and rear main leaks amongst other oil seal leaks.

Both of these answers could have been found by a quick and simple trip to the FAQs. Please use them guys, thats what they are there for.

as for the CDR, I know one guy who a little while back cut the piping to the CDR from the intake and popped on of those small filters on it. He claimed there was no issues or changes and all that. But last I recal he didn't appreciate our feedback reguarding leaving it alone and left.

Honestly, leave the thing alone. replace it when it needs. And keep it connected to your intake to let it do its job.

EGR: Exhaust Gas Regulator.

Basically, it takes the already spent fuel and air from your exhaust and vents it back into the engine as an emisions control componant. But like everything else, the more you try to control the emisions and polution the more the engine suffers. Most people just block off the EGR with a plate.

ok EGR is exhaust gas recirculation and it is used to cool combustion chamber temperatures and thus control NOx emmissions. without you are putting harmful emmissions to atmosphere, and allowing EGTs to rise higher...HOWEVER, it also cokes up the combustion chamber...it has its benefits and its drawbacks....

whoops. ah well. Learn something new everyday. And thats an everyday case here. Thanks Blueburby for the clarification.

no problem

if the EGR is deleted I maybe hope:

*Air more rich in oxygen
*Cooler air in to combustion chamber
*lower EGT

am I right ?

if the EGR is deleted I maybe hope:

*Air more rich in oxygen
*Cooler air in to combustion chamber
*lower EGT

am I right ?


On some gasser cars if the EGR is deleted they will run hot. My truck didn't have EGR from the factory so i can't answer that on a 6.5 basis.

as i JUST said

EGR is to COOL combustion chamber temps...and LOWER EGT's...thus reducing NOx....

read the whole thread

My EGR isn't functional but still on the truck, will be gone in the spring with the F intake i have yet to install... I didn't really see much of a difference in EGTs... but meh.

I deleted my CDR a long time ago with a crank case vent and don't have any problems.

I DID look at the FAQs. I found them somewhat informative. But I didn't see anything about the CDR valve. Basically, I have the intake manifold off, and that thing has crapped up the pipes with 1/4" of goop. I'd rather exhaust it through a draft tube. I just want to make sure that pressures from the turbo don't force oil out the tube.
As for the EGR, I don't really care about it. I have a crack in my manifold, and was offered a non-egr manifold to replace it.

Finally, I found this page. Let me know what you think.

http://www.hummerknowledgebase.com/engine/diymwc.html

Thanks all for your replies.

ok the CDR is required to keep combustion gasses out of your oil....

without a PCV system oil breakdown happens faster due to the acidic nature of comb ustion gas. the CDR allows the intake system to draw these gasses out, while the oil mists collects and drains back down through the valve cover. it's a major emissions component and putting a breather on is highly illegal and immoral...let me tell you if i saw a customer come into MY shop with a breather, i'd be removing it and installing a pcv on MY dime....my health and my kids health and the planets health aren't worth the removal of emmissions components

here comes the aguement.....it was done that way in the 70's...so was the release of CFC refigerants...because we didn't know any better.

so please...just replace your CDR and get it over with...as for the EGR...if you want to remove it fine, but do it right(block plate and what not) otherwise it's a potential exhaust leak and also an eyesore in the intake...not to mention bad for flow

You would be paying on your own dime. And then I'd take it off and never visit your place again.

Your holier-than-thou post isn't impressive. If you cared so much about the environment, you wouldn't be driving this rig in the first place. The particulate emissions of a diesel engine may be causing more asthma than gasoline burners. How long will it be before they are banned as worse than cigarettes by people like you?

I've never even seen evidence that these devices WORK.

Blueburby1, Cetanecean, both of you knock it off. If i have to start handing out vacations for arguing i will.


You would be paying on your own dime. And then I'd take it off and never visit your place again.

Your holier-than-thou post isn't impressive. If you cared so much about the environment, you wouldn't be driving this rig in the first place. The particulate emissions of a diesel engine may be causing more asthma than gasoline burners. How long will it be before they are banned as worse than cigarettes by people like you?

I've never even seen evidence that these devices WORK.



If you don't believe us, disconnect the CDR from the intake, and watch the blowby increase coming out of the oil filler tube with the engine idling. the CDR does work. The CDR also helps pull a vacuum on the crankcase, to prevent oil leaks, which will happen. My truck had a worn out CDR after 160K miles and my front and rear main seals were leaking. I replaced the CDR and the leaks went away.

Remove it, by all means its your truck. I don't care about your truck, I care about my truck. If you plan on removing emissions components(which is illegal in the US and Canada) don't post about it here. Emissions devices are there for a reason. I can see blocking off the EGR as its fairly useless, but removing something like the CDR especially when it works is foolish.

Here's straight from the FAQs - http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11637 and again from the guy who wrote the first post http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showpost.php?p=322032&postcount=8

After you've been here a few days your questioning everything we tell you? Honestly not the best way to make an introduction here, or anywhere for that matter.

I agree Dave, I remove anything that is not useful. I kept the PCV on my 383 stroker because it keeps the oil cleaner, and helps regulate crankcase pressure, therefore it actually is doing something useful and has a purpose. I would assume the same applies for our diesels, cleaner oil and regulates crankcase pressure.

I guess if you were to install a crankcase evacuation kit on it, it would keep the oil clean along with your intake, but I'm not sure how/if it would work with a turbocharged engine. Plus the amount of gases added is extremely small in comparison to the amount of fresh air the turbo blows in there.

With my 383 stroker, I did a test (with PCV and Without) at various RPM's and loads, even full throttle, and noticed no change in my Air Fuel Ratio, however I noticed with no PCV my oil dipstick tended to push out a little bit. I've got a F.A.S.T. dual sensor wide band monitor in case your curious, best one out there, so it is extremely accurate.

Just my experience with the recirculating of crankcase vapours.

If you plan on removing emissions components(which is illegal in the US and Canada) don't post about it here. Emissions devices are there for a reason. I can see blocking off the EGR as its fairly useless, but removing something like the CDR especially when it works is foolish.

I'm not looking to argue, so this will be my only post here.
Cetaneceaen hasn't started any arguments, he just got caught up in one. He came here asking questions, so why not just answer them or direct him to the FAQ's? I think he's legitimately asking if and how the CDR works or not so he can decide to keep it or not.
As far as the law & the above post is concerned, removing the EGR is just as illegal as the CDR. Removing the soot trap/cat. is also illegal. Replacing/modifying the stock air box is illegal. This forum is full of illegal mods, so telling the guy not to post here is rather hypocritical. Just because the collective wisdom says an emissions control device is useless, that does not make it legal to remove it.
As far as moral arguments for or against emmisions control devices, I have them too, but they probably best belong in the politics section.

if the EGR is deleted I maybe hope:

*Air more rich in oxygen
*Cooler air in to combustion chamber
*lower EGT

am I right ?

You can hope, but may be disappointed.

Contrary to what some may perceive of the EGR, your exhaust is not continually routed through or into the intake. It goes out the pipe at the back, generally.

EGR is controlled by the PCM, and is only commanded during extended periods of deceleration, in zero throttle situation such as coasting to a stop or down a long hill using what little compression braking you have.

NOx is produced as a result of combustion, fuel and air being combined and burned, the hotter the fire, the greater the amount of NOx. We need air and fuel to accelerate and keep moving though, so the EGR is not commanded during these situations.

NOx is also produced in the zero throttle deceleration events, so the EGR is commanded to introduce a wee bit of exhaust gas into the intake air, which reduces the amount of oxygen, and results in a lower combustion temp and lower emissions of NOx.

The only downside, is the sludgy soot that accumulates in the intake.

as i JUST said

EGR is to COOL combustion chamber temps...and LOWER EGT's...thus reducing NOx....

read the whole threadHow you figure that? exhaust gasses are way hotter than intake air, so how is that suppose to have a cooling effect.

EGR and CDR are both emission control features, deleting both has NO adverse effect on engine performance but is against emission laws of today.

I replaced the CDR with a PROVENT on my 98, and vented the CDR on my 95 to the atmosfeer 40.000 km ago with NO problems at all.[see sig]

Crank case Depression Regulator (A.K.A. the CDR valve). The concept is simple: It allows blow-by gasses to be drawn out of the crank case into the intake manifold at low engine speed. Vacuum created by the engine at higher RPMS pulls the diaphragm in the valve closed to regulate the amount of oil vapor drawn into the intake. If the diaphragm is torn or gummed up the valve will remain open, causing excessive oil consumption.


This is the physical definition I got.

ok i'm not here to argue, and i'm sorry if it came off that way

removal of emmissions equipment is illegal in canada and the US.

the Soot Trap has long been regarded as a mistake, and GM themselves have removed them time after time due their uselessness(at least the dealership here does).

the EGR chokes off the fuel ratio at the same time as the pcm lowers injected fuel, this results in less fire, thus less heat...trust me it works...i know...i've seen the scopes. if you don't believe me thats alright i really don't care because you probably haven't watched a scan tool while experimenting anyways.

\CDR/PCV valves are a neccesary evil in todays world to prevent blowing oil out the seals of higher compression engines, the old days are gone of 7:1....we're talking 12:1 stock gas and 22:1 stock diesel...

as for alteration of the airbox...the air box is NOT an emmissions related component...and IS legally modifiable.

if your going to state things, state an opinion as such and a fact as such

otherwise it's just plain wrong

i'll stop posting in this thread

oh and by the way diesel burn far cleaner than gas engines for the same power rating...obviously an 8000 pound V8 6.5 litre vehicle is going to pollute more than a 1.2 litre 2000 pound prius....but diesel are far cleaner...hence their extreme useage in europe....

oh and by the way diesel burn far cleaner than gas engines for the same power rating...obviously an 8000 pound V8 6.5 litre vehicle is going to pollute more than a 1.2 litre 2000 pound prius....but diesel are far cleaner...hence their extreme useage in europe....

Damn straight. Blueburby gets a beer for this one.:beerchug:

I agree diesels are much cleaner. The reason more diesels arent used in the united states is because too many of us americans think they are too good to listen to the noise or "smell the smell" and in both cases these said people are full of shit. First off the noise is not that bad and if you get a high-end car like a VW or something you will barely if ever hear it anyways. And about the smell, if you dont smell the exhaust from your gas car (which smells worse) and then you wont smell the diesel exhaust either!! I dont understand people. I love the sound and dont mind the smell at all.

they've been jaded by older sulphur diesel big rigs...

I myself vented the CDR to atmophere....Check my sig, I'm in the "Massive Blowby Club" and in my case the CDR couldn't keep up, which resulted in a very oily intake and related parts....I have no problem with this setup and have a much cleaner intake as a result.

IMO the enviorment has a much bigger problem than caused by the 6.5 guys who vent their CDR to atmosphere......As far as pollution goes, the cat/soot trap removal is worse and I don't see/hear anyone who has left it on for pollution reasons......JMHO

The REAL problem here is many people have opinions they feel strongly about, and some are formed from experience, and some are formed from heresy.

Here is what I have seen first hand.

Using a homemade PMD heatsink, if made properly, is just as reliable as a Heath system.

Removing the soot trap does not get you 5mpg net savings. Mine was clean flowing through it, and I noticed increased noise and very little if no MPG savings.

Removing the CDR, as a polution control, is illegal. In some circumstances, it may cause problems or exascerbate others, especially if not done correctly or the mod causes restriction. On my truck, vented with a blow tube breather, allows the crankcase pressure to vent to atmosphere with no restriction, the same as diesels have done in the past, and has caused no problems to date with my truck.

Neither Chevy, Ford, nor Dodge makes vehicles that are superior to the other. Each has their own quirks.


If you remove your CDR, your dead grandmother is not going to crawl up your leg with a hunting knife between her teeth. However, you are in uncharted territory.

Formulate your decision based on facts and what you decide is the best option. Neither answer is the blantent wrong one. Many of the worlds best ideas come from experimentation. Try both and see what works best for you is my recommendation.

This thread reminds me of one of those "it seemed like a good idea at the time" idea's.

If you feel its the right thing and you know what your doing, do it. Nobody has your kid hostage saying you do it they die.

HOWEVER,
Like the groups of people who have faught to stand there ground reguarding legals and illegals, biodiesel, CDR valves, and "out of the loop" modifications, I will tell you the same thing(as do many of us other 6.5'ers have said)

If it works, great. If it doesn't, don't come back here whinning about how something broke. You will get no sympathy.

I can honestly say this thread is going absolutly nowhere and only causing issues. I would say just lock it and throw away the key. But thats just my 2 cents.

Hey, I just asked for a little information. I felt that the FAQ didn't cover it. Apparently, it isn't settled.

I said I wasn't going to reply, but since I was called a liar in the this thread, I suppose I must.
Below is an excerpt from an EPA document that lists emission control parts. The document applies to all passenger vehicles & light trucks, not just gassers. You will see that the airbox is indeed an emission control part & thereby illegal to modify.
It may not make any sense, but we are talking about the letter of the law here, not what makes sense. The fact is, anything that affects emissions (good or bad) is illegal to tamper with. Nearly every engine related part, from the intake to the tailpipe, affects emissions.



An emission control part is any part installed with the primary
purpose of controlling emissions. An emission related part is any
part that has an effect on emissions. Listed below are some examples
of parts or systems which fall under these definitions. A more
complete list can be found in your owner's manual/warranty booklet.
If any of the parts listed below fail to function or function
improperly because of a defect in materials or workmanship, causing
your vehicle to exceed federal emission standards, they should be
repaired or replaced under the emissions warranty if your vehicle is
less than 2 years old and has been driven less than 24,000 miles. One
manufacturer may use more parts than another, so the following list is
not complete for all vehicles.


EMISSION CONTROL PARTS

Exhaust Gas Conversion Systems

oxygen sensor thermal reactor
catalytic converter dual-walled exhaust pipe

Exhaust Gas Recirculation System

EGR valve thermal vacuum switch
EGR solenoid EGR spacer plate
EGR backpressure transducer Sensor and switches use to
control EGR flow

Evaporative Emission Control System

purge valve fuel filler cap
purge solenoid vapor storage canister and filter

Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) System

PCV valve PCV solenoid

Air Injection System

Air pump diverter, bypass, or gulp valve
reed valve anti-backfire or deceleration valve

Early Fuel Evaporative (EFE) System

EFE valve thermal vacuum switch
heat riser valve

Fuel Metering System

electronic control module (unit) or EFI air flow meter, computer
command module or mixture control unit, deceleration controls,
electronic choke, fuel injectors, fuel injection units and fuel
altitude compensator sensor, bars or rails for EFI or TBI systems,
mixture settings on sealed fuel mixture control solenoid, diaphragm
or other systems, fuel metering components that achieve closed/other
feedback control sensors/loop operation switches and valves

Air Induction System

thermostatically controlled air cleaner, air box

Ignition Systems

electronic spark advance timing advance/retard systems,
high energy electronic ignition

Miscellaneous Parts

hoses, gaskets, brackets, clamps and other accessories used in the
above systems


EMISSION RELATED PARTS

These are examples of other parts of your vehicle which have a
primary purpose other than emissions control but which nevertheless
have significant effects on your vehicle's emissions. If any of these
parts fail to function or function improperly, your vehicle's
emissions may exceed federal standards. Therefore, when any of the
parts of the following systems are defective in materials or
workmanship and have failed in a way that would be likely to cause
your vehicle's emissions to exceed federal standards, they should be
repaired or replaced under the emissions warranty:

Fuel Injection System

fuel distributor

Air Induction System

turbocharger intake manifold

Exhaust System

exhaust manifold

Ignition System

distributor spark plugs
ignition wires and coil

Miscellaneous Parts

hoses, gaskets, brackets, clamps, and other accessories used in
the above systems.


What Are Specified Major Emission Control Components?

There are three specified major emission control components,
covered for the first 8 years or 80,000 miles of vehicle use on 1995
and newer vehicles:

* Catalytic converters.

* The electronic emissions control unit or computer (ECU).

* The onboard emissions diagnostic device or computer (OBD).

You be a good kid now, listen to what mommy say's, don't rock the boat,follow all man made rules to the letter.:p::rules:
Don't you dare change a thing, :badidea:whip:

I prefer to think and do for myself.:exactly:

I said I wasn't going to reply, but since I was called a liar in the this thread, I suppose I must.
Below is an excerpt from an EPA document that lists emission control parts. The document applies to all passenger vehicles & light trucks, not just gassers. You will see that the airbox is indeed an emission control part & thereby illegal to modify.
It may not make any sense, but we are talking about the letter of the law here, not what makes sense. The fact is, anything that affects emissions (good or bad) is illegal to tamper with. Nearly every engine related part, from the intake to the tailpipe, affects emissions.



An emission control part is any part installed with the primary
purpose of controlling emissions. An emission related part is any
part that has an effect on emissions. Listed below are some examples
of parts or systems which fall under these definitions. A more
complete list can be found in your owner's manual/warranty booklet.
If any of the parts listed below fail to function or function
improperly because of a defect in materials or workmanship, causing
your vehicle to exceed federal emission standards, they should be
repaired or replaced under the emissions warranty if your vehicle is
less than 2 years old and has been driven less than 24,000 miles. One
manufacturer may use more parts than another, so the following list is
not complete for all vehicles.


EMISSION CONTROL PARTS

Exhaust Gas Conversion Systems

oxygen sensor thermal reactor
catalytic converter dual-walled exhaust pipe

Exhaust Gas Recirculation System

EGR valve thermal vacuum switch
EGR solenoid EGR spacer plate
EGR backpressure transducer Sensor and switches use to
control EGR flow

Evaporative Emission Control System

purge valve fuel filler cap
purge solenoid vapor storage canister and filter

Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) System

PCV valve PCV solenoid

Air Injection System

Air pump diverter, bypass, or gulp valve
reed valve anti-backfire or deceleration valve

Early Fuel Evaporative (EFE) System

EFE valve thermal vacuum switch
heat riser valve

Fuel Metering System

electronic control module (unit) or EFI air flow meter, computer
command module or mixture control unit, deceleration controls,
electronic choke, fuel injectors, fuel injection units and fuel
altitude compensator sensor, bars or rails for EFI or TBI systems,
mixture settings on sealed fuel mixture control solenoid, diaphragm
or other systems, fuel metering components that achieve closed/other
feedback control sensors/loop operation switches and valves

Air Induction System

thermostatically controlled air cleaner, air box

Ignition Systems

electronic spark advance timing advance/retard systems,
high energy electronic ignition

Miscellaneous Parts

hoses, gaskets, brackets, clamps and other accessories used in the
above systems


EMISSION RELATED PARTS

These are examples of other parts of your vehicle which have a
primary purpose other than emissions control but which nevertheless
have significant effects on your vehicle's emissions. If any of these
parts fail to function or function improperly, your vehicle's
emissions may exceed federal standards. Therefore, when any of the
parts of the following systems are defective in materials or
workmanship and have failed in a way that would be likely to cause
your vehicle's emissions to exceed federal standards, they should be
repaired or replaced under the emissions warranty:

Fuel Injection System

fuel distributor

Air Induction System

turbocharger intake manifold

Exhaust System

exhaust manifold

Ignition System

distributor spark plugs
ignition wires and coil

Miscellaneous Parts

hoses, gaskets, brackets, clamps, and other accessories used in
the above systems.


What Are Specified Major Emission Control Components?

There are three specified major emission control components,
covered for the first 8 years or 80,000 miles of vehicle use on 1995
and newer vehicles:

* Catalytic converters.

* The electronic emissions control unit or computer (ECU).

* The onboard emissions diagnostic device or computer (OBD).

read the statement in red carefully...a wide open air filter element (assuming it's still filtering the air) is BETTER for emmissions...because you get a more COMPLETE burn....

now if you removed the turbo, you'd be illegal(without turning down the pump)

if you left the turbo wide open you'd be illegal(allowing particulates in)

upgrading the box for better air flow with equal filtration is legal


you've proved MY point...thank you

Enough. keep it calm and civil, or it's done.


We don't need any of this. http://www.352media.com/rantingandraving/CMFiles/Images/CapsLock.jpg

Enough. keep it calm and civil, or it's done.


We don't need any of this. http://www.352media.com/rantingandraving/CMFiles/Images/CapsLock.jpg

Haha, wonder who showed you that one?:D:rolleyes:;)

I have said this before but I removed the hose from the CDR that runs to the intake and vented it to the atmosphere. I honestly think it is vented to the intake for emisions reasons and nothing more. The CDR is needed as to limit crank case pressure though so keep it in there. Look at the vapor coming out of the CDR valve, if routed into the intake by the time that cloudy air sees light agian it has been burned much cleaner in the cylinders.
I have a very good running, non leaking 130,000 miles owned since new 6.5 to back my claim. Vented CDR for at least 80k miles

I have said this before but I removed the hose from the CDR that runs to the intake and vented it to the atmosphere. I honestly think it is vented to the intake for emisions reasons and nothing more. The CDR is needed as to limit crank case pressure though so keep it in there. Look at the vapor coming out of the CDR valve, if routed into the intake by the time that cloudy air sees light agian it has been burned much cleaner in the cylinders.
I have a very good running, non leaking 130,000 miles owned since new 6.5 to back my claim. Vented CDR for at least 80k miles

243k on mine same condition, has the CDR hooked up to it still and has since day 1. No leaks except from the old oil cooler hose which has nothing to do with the crankcase venting. CDRs AKA PCV valves are there for a reason. Every engine ive ever seen except 1 has had this system, even the old ford 8n tractor i worked on if i remember right. My lawn mowers have a variation of it as does the rest of my equipment. The one engine ive seen that doesnt have it came from an old 50s irrigation pump and is now used on something else. Its vented to the atmosphere and leaks like crazy. I dont know if it was ever vented into the air intake or not from the factory (it is a diesel) but i know its been rebuilt, and leaks. Had it apart after 1500 hours of run time and reassembleded with ALL NEW gaskets and now its still leaking! Maybe its the nature of the engine, or maybe its the PCV/CDR system. Who knows?