I was at WalMart tonite and the plow truck had just been down the main parking lanes, and there was a pretty good drift behind all of the vehicles. While I was driving around, I saw a guy in a Jap 4WD pickup (I believe it was a Toyota), and he couldn't get over the "hump" in 2WD. He had to get out of his pickup, snowing like a beatch, colder than billy hell, heavy snow that sticks to everything, AND lock his fronts in. Only then was he able to "climb" over the hump.


My devlish side wanted to pull up next to him. Put my truck in 2WD, back up, make it look like I couldn't get over, and then simply engage 4WD and back out. Fortunately for this dude, http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif there were cars on both sides of thim, so I don't think that he would have noticed if I had done that.


But it made me think, WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT (ON PURPOSE) MANUAL LOCK OUT HUBS??? I think that the standard on Ford Super Dutys is MANUAL lock out hubs. I think that you have to order and add on automatic hubs...


cadman_ksEdited by: CADman_ks

Auto T-case and hubs are convenient but any clown with mechanical hubs that leaves home or where ever without turning them in when inclimate weather is occurring,deserves what they get ....

Mechanical hubs are stronger and easier to service in the long run .....

Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif

Ditto Mac for the serious off roader as they do in fact tear up less often but what w/the newer/current designs I doubt if that is the case any longer. Additionally the inherent design eliminated rotating mass when not engage which for awhile (read old days) seen as a plus.


I seem to recall when chev first came out w/auto/self locking hubs, many were changing'em out for warne manuals. IIRC all my friends did.Edited by: ShumDit

Auto T-case and hubs are convenient but any clown with mechanical hubs that leaves home or where ever without turning them in when inclimate weather is occurring,deserves what they get ....

Mechanical hubs are stronger and easier to service in the long run .....

Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif


Well, as I recall from the old CJ5 days, it was a Natural Law that you ALWAYS got in the middle of the creek or nose down in the wash before you decided that you had to lock the fronts!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

Manual hubs allow you to run a locker up front on the street. Of course you could use an air locker or electric locker, but there is nothing like the simplicity and reliability of a detroit locker and manual hubs.

1 . you are plowing/ 3:00am / something goes crunch in the front end/ you investigate/ broken cv joint/need tow / parts are always turning/





2. you are plowing/ 3:00 am / something goes crunch in the front end/ you investigate/ broken outer u-joint/ un lock hubs drive home/no parts are turning





get the picture?





Tom L.

Auto T-case and hubs are convenient but any clown with mechanical hubs that leaves home or where ever without turning them in when inclimate weather is occurring,deserves what they get ....




I'll still take my autolockers, thank you very much... http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big%20Smile.gif


As for this guy, I think that he was an employee there because his truck had been there since the snow started, and the snow started about 5 hours before it was supposed to, so he MAYBE had a legitimate excuse.


I still contend for the average every day 4 X 4, auto lockers are still the way to go. Unless something breaks, like broker said, you're always ready to go...


cadman_ks

The GMs don't have "auto lockers" the axle shafts and spider gears are always spinning. There is an electronic actuator on the front differential you have to rely on. If you've got push button 4x4 you also have to rely on sensors and servos on the transfercase also. Besides the good points mentioned already with manual lockouts you can free wheel the front end for better mileage for "avergage every day" driving. You've got the ability to use 2-Lo which can come in handy when manuvering a heavy trailer on the pavement without the binding of 4-Lo. I'd absolutely prefer it if my GMC had lockouts to go with my manual shift transfercase lever. Although my wife loves her fancy push button 4x4. I guess that's why they make em that way.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

I agree with BROKER on the emergency issue but that's more of a hard core situation.

I have never seen a broken CV joint on a GM truck. I'm sure they break and some here have seen it. The HD's have beefed up versions.

The GM CAD (Center Axle Disconnect) system is super simple. I don't no how much simpler it could be. It's probably simpler than manual hubs. All it consists of is a sliding internally splined sleeve and a plunger actuator that's a piece of cake to replace or diagnose.

Hoot, you are right about simplicity. The CAD is a very simple unit but, not as strong as manual hubs. I wish I could get manual hubs on my truck. Rebuilding manual hubs is very simple and can be done in less than hour. If you need to rebuild the CAD, count on most of a day by the time your done unless you do it every day for a living.





Don't get me wrong, I have enjoyed the auto feature on my four wheel drive but, there are plenty of times when I am dragging a trailer through the desert with my rock crawler on it that I am nervous about strenght and would prefer manual. I guess I am just stuborn but, I have broken CAD front axles before (not a GM) and I have broken manual hubs. I know the difference between repairing the two.

On my brothers 79 CJ they work very well, and yes it sucks having to get out when the jeep is all muddy or all wet, but for being a 25 year old esign on that thing, works very well. I cant complain, but to buy a new truck...that is Bull S%*T to have to get out and do it.

Manual all the way. I wouldn't be worried about CV wear with my green keys. Shift on the fly as long as the hubs are locked.


I had to get out of the truck just once because the hubs weren't locked. I was drift busting and got sucked into the drift. The one side was a piece of cake but the other...

Green keys do nothing for driveline axle angles except increase them.

I don't know if the design has changed but my 1994 K1500 had 4X$4 lever in the floor. The way I rmember it was there was a chamber in the front diferential and when you switch to 4X4 it closed a circuit which heated an element and this element heated a gas charge and the gas charge expanded and locked the front wheels in. I remember this because on really cold days it took longer to engage. So does the Dmax use the same type of actuator?

I don't know if the design has changed but my 1994 K1500 had 4X$4 lever in the floor. The way I rmember it was there was a chamber in the front diferential and when you switch to 4X4 it closed a circuit which heated an element and this element heated a gas charge and the gas charge expanded and locked the front wheels in. I remember this because on really cold days it took longer to engage. So does the Dmax use the same type of actuator?

No the actuator is now an instant on electric motor driving a worm gear. No time delay in the cold.

Green keys do nothing for driveline axle angles except increase them.


I guess I don't get your point. Mine is if you had lockouts the CV's wouldn't be turning all the time so they would wear less. I remember the first 4x4 craze in the late 70's when guys would jack up full time 4x4's and have to drop the front drive shaft or have it lengthened so it wouldn't shell the u-joints out.

I think that the standard on Ford Super Dutys is MANUAL lock out hubs. I think that you have to order and add on automatic hubs...





Ford has a dual system on all Superduties with the Pushbutton 4wd. There are lockable hubs, but they can be set to auto. It is a good compromise because if something goes wrong with the auto locker, you can still get out and lock in the hubs. Manually locking the hubs is also nice for those unexpected times where you get stuck, but do not have the forward motion to allow the auto locker to lock.


The straight manual locker is available, but 99% of the Superduties have the pushbutton setup.

Green keys do nothing for driveline axle angles except increase them.


I guess I don't get your point. Mine is if you had lockouts the CV's wouldn't be turning all the time so they would wear less. I remember the first 4x4 craze in the late 70's when guys would jack up full time 4x4's and have to drop the front drive shaft or have it lengthened so it wouldn't shell the u-joints out.

Yes driveshafts.

You said CV wear so I assumed you meant the axles. Green Keys will increase front axle angle but not front drivesahft angle. The differential is mounted to the frame.Edited by: hoot

Ford has a dual system on all Superduties with the Pushbutton 4wd. There are lockable hubs, but they can be set to auto. It is a good compromise because if something goes wrong with the auto locker, you can still get out and lock in the hubs. Manually locking the hubs is also nice for those unexpected times where you get stuck, but do not have the forward motion to allow the auto locker to lock.


The straight manual locker is available, but 99% of the Superduties have the pushbutton setup.





Actually, that would really be the ideal setup. After reading some of these posts, I realized that there are times when I could use manual lockers myself. For example, when you want to be in 2LO. On our trucks with pushbutton at least, that's not an option...


cadman_ks

Ford has a dual system on all Superduties with the Pushbutton 4wd. There are lockable hubs, but they can be set to auto. It is a good compromise because if something goes wrong with the auto locker, you can still get out and lock in the hubs. Manually locking the hubs is also nice for those unexpected times where you get stuck, but do not have the forward motion to allow the auto locker to lock.


The straight manual locker is available, but 99% of the Superduties have the pushbutton setup.





Actually, that would really be the ideal setup. After reading some of these posts, I realized that there are times when I could use manual lockers myself. For example, when you want to be in 2LO. On our trucks with pushbutton at least, that's not an option...


cadman_ks

I don't think it's a very reliable hub system. It's got lots of parts to make that happen that are suseptable.

I think Jeli's point is that if we had manual lockouts on our trucks it wouldn't matter how extreme of an angle the CVs were at because with the hubs unlocked the half shafts and thus the CVs wouldn't be spinning. The wheels would just be free wheeling on the spindles until the hubs were locked. As far as the convenience of auto 4x4 and pushbutton systems goes, just ask my father-in-law how convenient it was when his 2003 Trailblazer only had 2-wheel-drive during the last snow storm. Dealer fixed it and said "not uncommon".http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

This is true.

I'll tell you why.


Just wait until the first time you need 4WD, for example getting stuck in 2WD like that dude, push your button or shift the lever and presto.... nothing, your rears are spinning and your still stuck.


This has happened to me twice, once after driving down to the lake Shasta on a dirt path to unload my boat, tried to back up and the tires just spun. I shifted into 4WD and presto, tires still spun. I was pulled out by a lowly 1963 Ford Comet (2WD). Boy was I pissed!


The other time I was in Tahoe in a snow storm, going uphill when the tires started to lose grip. Shifted into 4WD, nothing. Had to pullover (backing up) to put on chains. You should have heard the Sh*% people were yelling from their cars... like dude isn't that a Jeep? WTF are you putting chains on for??? Put it in 4wd Bozo!!


Turns out both times the vacumn actuator failed. When the sensor or actuator fails, you are sh*& out of luck. At least with Manual hubs, you will get the hubs locked. When the actuator fails, you can't lock the hubs and you won't have 4WD. Thank God that never happened when I was far from civilization.


I have had two Jeep and one GM actuator fail over the years, most likely from insufficient use.


I have learned that if you want your 4WD to work when you need it, you better shift it into 4WD at least every couple of months. That way the actuator stays lubed and doesn't freeze stuck.


Just my $.02Edited by: SteveCA

Never had manuals, and never wanted them either. Over the years I've watched and driven by plenty of guys out slogging around in the mud at our annual Saskatchewan music festival ( in a hayflat and always seems to rain) locking up their hubs and then having to drag all that gumbo back into their truck to go home! My 94 was a little slow to lock up alright but if I was in a pinch throwing it into 4 low always seemed to lock it up right away. And it's true you can have problems, my 2001 had a bad switch on the electronic 4wd, luckily just on ice and at home in town so no big deal.Overall far more conveniant than manuals, and for $50,000 plus now, I would think it should be!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif