Ok, you got your LBZ's that supposively have 50 more hp then the LLY's correct? Question is, when you put the same programer on either one, do they end up with the same hp after all is said and done? I was wondering this because the LLY and LBZ are the same except for the LLY in tuned down 50hp correct? Well, when your programmer changes all the fuel maps and everything else, does it basically put the same tune on both the LBZ and LLY's bringing them now up to the same hp?

Thanks, KiX

I honestly don't know for certain but from my understanding the answer is no. The programmer/tuner modifies the existing tables within the stock program....so just like the programmer/tuner states, if you use a 50 HP program it would be added to the original HP numbers. So you would need a 90 HP tune on an 06 LLY to bring up to 400 and a 40HP tune on a LBZ to bring up to 400. That is the only way it makes sense to me. However I am sure someone with more knowledge in this area will correct me if I am wrong.

Love the answer to this question, I also have an LLY & would like to know what is involved in upgrading to an LBZ tune? Looking to add a little power & gain some MPG, currently at about 14.5 hand calculated and driving easy.

A 06 lly and lbz are the same, just not the tuning, I had mine reflashed to lbz. The tuner will add hp#s to what you already have(so I have been told, and can seat of the pants verify) but I have not verified this on the dyno. Any willing dealer can do this, it is the cheapest 50hp you could buy.

I have an 06 lly w/ 4in exhaust & Predator programer. When I dynoed it there was a LBZ w/ 5in Exhaust & Predator and we were within 2HP of each other. you can see my dyno #'s in my Signature.

I would say that the LLY & LBZ are the same after tuning.

Well, I'd say you answered my question right there. Thanks!!! My theory was that if you have 2 of the same motor with 2 different tunes and then you throw the same programmer on both, that you would end up with the same tune resulting in ruffly the same hp. Thanks man!!

Speaking for my own tuning, the end result will be the same so I guess the LLY guy has more to gain.

My 70HP tune is tin the 370-380 range with low-mid 700's TQ.

I think the lbz has a better fuel system ?

I think the lbz has a better fuel system ?


Nope...they are exactly.....and I do mean exactly mechanically the same except for the ECM/tune. Who told you the fuel systems were different?

Nope...they are exactly.....and I do mean exactly mechanically the same except for the ECM/tune. Who told you the fuel systems were different?
X2.... and here we go again with the '06LLY VS LBZ posts. The two engines are mechanically exactly the same. ECM tune on LBZ is only difference to gain 50hp and 45ftlb of TQ.

Nope...they are exactly.....and I do mean exactly mechanically the same except for the ECM/tune. Who told you the fuel systems were different?IT MAY HAVE BEEN THE LB7 THAT WAS A BIT DIFFERNT?

What do you mean the LLY and LBZ are the same?? I was told the had different turbos and different spark plugs....JK JK :duh:

But seriously, this is a good thread. If in fact the programmers do put the two engines at the same level then I would say that the 06 LLY would be the better one to have. Just simply do to the fact that you cant just Detune a LBZ below the 360hp..at least not with a hand held. Some people say they dont need that much power as these trucks have and if they could detune it then they would get better mileage.

I had my 2006 lbz dyno’d with just a bully dog pmt set on extreme and it made just over 400 hp at the tire I think that with that system that extreme is = to 150 hp but I know for sure that all trucks will be a little different no matter that set up or tune but after saying that i dont think you can get the same power with the same tuner from an 06 lly

It's all about the numbers man. Lets see if I can do a simple small example of what a ecm does and what it looks like when you put a programmer on.

06 lly ecm regulates (remember I'm just fudging numbers here)
MAX MAP Boost- 25psi fuel for 25psi-150
MAP 26PSI fuel-140
MAP 25PSI fuel-130
MAP 24PSI fuel-120
and so on and so on

06 LBZ ecm regulates ( again fudging #'s here)
MAX MAP Boost- 30psi fuel for 30psi - 180
MAP 29PSI fuel-170
MAP 28PSI fuel-160
MAP 27PSI fuel-150
MAP 26PSI fuel-140
and so on and so on. I know I know there is a lot more then just fueling and boost that changes, but I'm trying to keep it simple.

You guys that have seen stand alone engine management know what I'm getting at here. Well, stock ECM is the same thing except you can't change all rhe numbers while it's stock.

Now you slap a programer on either truck. The programmer lets say is going to have a max boost on stage 1 of 33psi. It's going to have a max boost of 33 psi regardless of whether or not it's on a LLY or a LBZ. Now you have to fuel that 33psi so it will have the proper fueling from 33psi and down. If the motor is the same on a LLY and a LBZ it will take the same amount of fueling to fuel 33 psi regardless of if it's an LLY or LBZ. You guys smelling what I'm cooking here.

Maybe you are correct but I think there is more to it then that....it would seem to me since they have different ECM's and different stock tunes that when the program made % changes to existing tables/varables the resulting tune would remain 30-40hp different because of the initial variables/tables that are being used are different. Also when I had a Hypertech tuner I had the dyno graph for both the 2006 LLY and 2006 LBZ which use the same tuner. The resulting dyno was 30-40 HP different. This is the reason I initially posted that they would remain different because of those dyno's which were from Hypertech. I will see if I can find where a put those dyno's at...I hope I didn't throw them away.

Yep I was mostly right....it doesn't remain exactly 50 HP different...it changes between 28 HP to 33 HP depending on which level you are using. Here is the link to the Dyno's right off Hypertech's web page:http://www.hypertech-inc.com/media/dynocharts/aa/2006-2008%20duramax%20diesel%20lly_lbz_lmm%2066l.pdf

The LBZ dyno is first...scroll down to see the LLY Dyno. Basically in level 3 the LBZ had 397 HP and the LLY had 364. Level 2 LBZ had 366 and LLY had 338. Level 1 LBZ had 349 and LLY had 320. And no I don't smell what your cooking...lol

I assume it would vary by tuner make and how they work. If it reflashes the truck with a tune stored in the tuner then the 2 trucks would have the same power, if it takes the stock tables and adjusts it by %'s then you will see a difference. I do know that systems like the Edge J/A and banks will have different outputs on the 06 LLY vs the 06 LBZ b/c of how they work. They hook up between the ECM and the engine and modify the signal to get the power gains, so they have to work by %'s.

It's all about the numbers man. Lets see if I can do a simple small example of what a ecm does and what it looks like when you put a programmer on.

06 lly ecm regulates (remember I'm just fudging numbers here)
MAX MAP Boost- 25psi fuel for 25psi-150
MAP 26PSI fuel-140
MAP 25PSI fuel-130
MAP 24PSI fuel-120
and so on and so on

06 LBZ ecm regulates ( again fudging #'s here)
MAX MAP Boost- 30psi fuel for 30psi - 180
MAP 29PSI fuel-170
MAP 28PSI fuel-160
MAP 27PSI fuel-150
MAP 26PSI fuel-140
and so on and so on. I know I know there is a lot more then just fueling and boost that changes, but I'm trying to keep it simple.

You guys that have seen stand alone engine management know what I'm getting at here. Well, stock ECM is the same thing except you can't change all rhe numbers while it's stock.

Now you slap a programer on either truck. The programmer lets say is going to have a max boost on stage 1 of 33psi. It's going to have a max boost of 33 psi regardless of whether or not it's on a LLY or a LBZ. Now you have to fuel that 33psi so it will have the proper fueling from 33psi and down. If the motor is the same on a LLY and a LBZ it will take the same amount of fueling to fuel 33 psi regardless of if it's an LLY or LBZ. You guys smelling what I'm cooking here.

very good example BTW


Actually this guy is correct. Coming from EFI live. All programmers do is set new maps they don't add values on top of existing maps the write completely new maps. So when you tune an 06 lly you will get the same HP/TQ as if you have tuned and 06 lbz with the same programmer.

If that is the case why does the Hypertech Max Energy give the 06 LBZ 33 more HP on level 3 than the 06 LLY using the same programmer?

If that is the case why does the Hypertech Max Energy give the 06 LBZ 33 more HP on level 3 than the 06 LLY using the same programmer?

It's not as cut and dry as this example. There a large number base fueling tables as well as limiting tables. Depending on which parts of the map the tuner targets you could easily see an incrimental gain or an equaling of power the LBZ.

An example that holds for the Hypertech may not necessarily hold for another programmer. I know that the Max HP potential of the '06LLY is equal to the LBZ with custom programming. I cannot speak for Hypertech, but I wouldn't be surprised with an incrimental bump.

Just my $.02

Nick

It's not as cut and dry as this example. There a large number base fueling tables as well as limiting tables. Depending on which parts of the map the tuner targets you could easily see an incrimental gain or an equaling of power the LBZ.

An example that holds for the Hypertech may not necessarily hold for another programmer. I know that the Max HP potential of the '06LLY is equal to the LBZ with custom programming. I cannot speak for Hypertech, but I wouldn't be surprised with an incrimental bump.

Just my $.02

Nick
And at least a new torque converter!!