Hi out there. New to the forum, thought I'd give it a try

Was having some slow cranking problems with my 6.2. Got cold and forgot to plug it in a few times. at first was hard to start but cranked at normal speed. when warmed up it started with no problem. last week it got really cold and the statrer seemed to slow down but afetr 3-4 tries would start.
Parked at work the other day and it turned over so slowly, seemed like low battereies. Lots of short trips recently so I charged up the batteries over the weekend and plugged in the block heater and still really slow cranking.
Today I clkeaned the battery terminals and looked at the battery and starter wires, looked OK. Changed the oil (15-40 took about 10 mins to drain out, repplaced it with som 0w40). Put in 2 new batteries I borrowed and still way to slow. Tried to drop the starter but I can't access the 3rd bolt going to try again tomorrow
Any tips on that 3rd bolt (at the back) and how clean do all the connections need to be, no corrosion and a bit of shine or do they need to sparkle?
Any help would be great

Welcome,you came to the right place.

sounds like starter,could be just the solenoid internal contacts needing attention. check batt ground cables at the block too for corrosion.
little bracket at the back of starter is better accessable trough the wheel well , but can be gotten to from the bottom as well[PITA] Put it back on if you want to keep the starter on.
On the connections, the cleaner the better.

please fill out your signature, so we know what you'r playing with.

Thanks for the tip Bison. I haven't been ablke to try to remove the starter again, we got a foot of snow yesterday. definitly try again tomorrow.
are there any tests for the starter to see if it's getting enough power?
The only one I could find was to take it out and give it power and see if it spins. I know that it spins but how would I know if it's fast enough?

current draw with starter engaged will tell if you have a amp meter.
If you have the starter off, take the solenoid cap off [1 big stud and the small bolt need all nuts removed,to take the cap off.be carefull there]and look at the contact studds and round washer for pitts and burns, you can flip the washer over and turn the studds 1/2 a turn to get a fresh contact again. have a look at the brushes and armature slip ring as well for worn and burns.The slipring has to be perfectly smooth and shiny.

So I managed to get the starter off today. Once the sun was at the exact right angle I could finally see the nut for that bracket. (incandescent and halogen lights + snow scare me). :eek:

Found an old thread with pix on how to remove the solenoid from the starter. The thread showed 3 bolts, 2 on the flange and 1 in back. mine only had the 2 on the flange. solenoid was loose so I gave it a twist and pulled back. It pushed the starter gear forward (I imagine thats sort of how it works). Twisted it some more - same thing. !/8, 1/4, 1/2 turns still wont pull off. whats up?

Also the studs that hold the ground and power are loose when I take the nuts off, I'm figgerin that the 1st nut holds them tight and the 2nd nut hols the leads, is thqat correct?

The easy way to take the starter out is to take the bolt that holds the bracket to the block off. Easy to see, easy to take out, then you just remove the starter with the bracket attached. Much faster than screwing around trying to take off the nut that holds the bracket on.

On the solenoid itself... You'll have two bolts through the flange and then one on the end of the solenoid. That one is important, it's an electrical connection - better be there.

You need to read this thread... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=140514

of course your right high Sierra the 3rd bolt was the power nut that I'd alraedy removed. there isn't a locate Tab or whatever so I can spin the solenoid 360 and I can't remove it inb any orientation. Also instead of a spring inside the solenoid head all I can see is a rubber and then plastic covering (probably covers the spring). The durn thjing just will not come off.

So I managed to get the starter off today. Once the sun was at the exact right angle I could finally see the nut for that bracket. (incandescent and halogen lights + snow scare me). :eek:

Found an old thread with pix on how to remove the solenoid from the starter. The thread showed 3 bolts, 2 on the flange and 1 in back. mine only had the 2 on the flange. solenoid was loose so I gave it a twist and pulled back. It pushed the starter gear forward (I imagine thats sort of how it works). Twisted it some more - same thing. !/8, 1/4, 1/2 turns still wont pull off. whats up?

Also the studs that hold the ground and power are loose when I take the nuts off, I'm figgerin that the 1st nut holds them tight and the 2nd nut hols the leads, is thqat correct?If i remember right, the solenoid has a pin on the end that hooks in a slot in the starterdrive fork , you have to tilt it up to unhook..
you'll have to open up the solenoid itself, and have a look at how the contacts are. And yes,the copper studs have to be tight in the cap with the first nut.If they where loose, then you may have found the problem[Burned contacts]

Thanks Bison that worked like a charm!!! now I've got the 2 bolts off the solenoids plastic cap and i can turn the cap slightly but I cant get the cap off. Im scared to force things cause that usually breaks them and I preffer to fix than replace.

So solenoid looks to be in good shape and my buddy who works for CAT tells me they're only worth $20 or so. If that isn't the problem is there a check for the starter itself? How many volts should it pull , the full 12?are amps an issue? I know nothing about electrical and don't even have a multimeter ( I fried one by not knowing how to use it properly) but can get this stuff tested if I know wwhat to get it testyed for.

how do you know the solenoid is OK, without looking at the contacts?
To get the cap off,take the nuts of the 3 studs, and tap them to the inside, there is a wire with eyelet hooked up to 2 studds[1 big and the small one] that go to the solenoid windings.At least you know how the thing is put together,if you decide to buy a new one.
Pull the 2 long trough bolts from the rear,and tap the endcap with the brusholders of to inspect things there.
Usually if there are no burnouts visable on the armature or field windings things are OK other than maybe a the slip ring tatch up,but testing the armature and fields for shorts and continiuty to rule out impending failure should be done.
The only sure test is a test under load.

I was able to pry the plastic cap up just enough to be able to see the contact ring which was quite clean, a little dull but no scorch marks or pitting.
When you mention removing the long through bolts i assume yo mean the starter? I'lkl give it a try. I'll alo get it tested at the parts store tomorrow. Will also replace the pos & neg battery wires since a more thorough inspection of the ground on drivers side revealed corrosion INSIDE the insulation but couldn't see or feel it outside. replaced it before I removed the starter and that didn't help but maybe the positive to the starter is cooked also.
I also just remembered that for about a month before this happened the bettery gauge has only been showing 13( volts, amps I don't know) with accessories on (lights and heater fan) and maybe 13.5 with accessories off. it used to show nearer to 16 with accessories off and at least 14 with everything on. My alternator belt was loose and squealed from time to time so I tightened it but that didn't help. I figured it's winter and everything's working harder that must be it but now I wonder if it could have been the sign that something wsn't right in the basic electrical system?

Get the starter tested, if that fixes it all is good, I like to put on a little die-electric grease, on all the connections, after a good cleaning. A multi metre is a very good thing to have, and to learn how to use it properly. Doing a voltage drop test will find any bad connections, and you want one the record the lowest voltage, which tells you the cranking voltage, 9.6 is as low as you want that to be. Also I would charge both your batteries, independently and then get them tested.

Thanks Jpringle. I seem to rememnber from another thread that every 1/2 volt is important. I gather from what you're saying that 12 volts optimum 9.6 minimum. if I do get a reading of lets say more than 9.6 less than 11 where could I be losing voltage?

I was able to pry the plastic cap up just enough to be able to see the contact ring which was quite clean, a little dull but no scorch marks or pitting.
When you mention removing the long through bolts i assume yo mean the starter? I'lkl give it a try. I'll alo get it tested at the parts store tomorrow. Will also replace the pos & neg battery wires since a more thorough inspection of the ground on drivers side revealed corrosion INSIDE the insulation but couldn't see or feel it outside. replaced it before I removed the starter and that didn't help but maybe the positive to the starter is cooked also.
I also just remembered that for about a month before this happened the bettery gauge has only been showing 13( volts, amps I don't know) with accessories on (lights and heater fan) and maybe 13.5 with accessories off. it used to show nearer to 16 with accessories off and at least 14 with everything on. My alternator belt was loose and squealed from time to time so I tightened it but that didn't help. I figured it's winter and everything's working harder that must be it but now I wonder if it could have been the sign that something wsn't right in the basic electrical system?It would be really helpfull to give all your observations from the get go instead of other bits and pieces later on,I also understood your batt cables and connections where investigated and found good.Not so you say now.
That's why i gave advice on the starter.

yeah I understand that. my first look at the cables was at work in the cold and was only to remove them flex and look for corosion. As I said the corrosion was insdide the insulation and thare wasn't any cracking when I tried to flex them. All the corrosion was in the first 1" or so of the wire.

So I haven't been able to find anyone to test my starter . None of the parts stores or garages can do it. Th only thing I've heard is to put power to the starter and jump the s terminal to see if it spins but this test will still not tell me if its spinning with enough power.
I bought a Multimetre and would like to do a voltage drop test on all my cables as well as the starter. I dont fully understand how to do this test. I've removed the starter and the + cable that goes to the starter, do i have to hook everything back up or can I just put pwer to thje starter using the cable and test. Also my multimeter has a setting for 10Vdc and then jumps to 50vdc the test that I read somwhere else said to set it at 20vdc. On the starter Where do I putb the terminals, on the big lug, s terminal or the terminal between solenoid and stareter. Will this only test the solenoid or the starter as well? I know it's a lot of questions, but i can't afford to tow the thing right now or pay a pro to fix it. Thanks in advance

Something else I justthought of. The battery to starter cable has a line to the alternator attached to it (factory).
1. do I need this hooked up to the alternator for a voltage drop test
2. if I was having slight charge problems (my anmetre? not reading as high as it used to) could both problems be attributed to a bad spot in the cable.

No place in town sells a cable similar to this one. (some similar but a lighter gauge wire. I want to go heavier if anytrhing). all my cables have eylets at both ends and have bolts going into the batteries which sseems to be the battery mod that I've read about elsewhere on this site. They are all crimped but don't have any shrink wrap at the ends. I belive this is why the first 1" or so of my battery ground was corroded. What isthe proper procedure for making this type of cable so that it is virtually waterproof and is there soldering involved. I don't thinkl I 'd be able to borrow a soldering tool for about a week.

If your old cables are long enough, cut the eyelets off and have new ones crimped on,dip cable ends in dyelectric grease before crimping and tape the ends. you'll be good for years to come. Use a propane torch if you want to solder it, the solder guns wont do it.[not enough heat].you could use a thinner size batt cable made up in the same fashion for the batt to alt connection.
Welding cable is a good alternative[far more flexable].

replace cables,then use multimeter set on 20 v to measure alt output.If engine starts that is.if still to slow cranking, it got to be the starter.

Have the batts tested

Resolution. It seem s you were right from the get go Bison. Yesterday I was finally able to find someone to test my starter. (Napa in my town didn't tell me the Napa one town over could test thyem even though they're owned by the same guy). Starter passed the test but some kind of read out made the guy think there was either a broken armature or bad sppt in the field wiring (winding?) Anyhow priced out new starter, $350 no thank you. Rebuilt nwith 90 day warranty $150 + core, no thank you. Used one from salvage $65 with 30 day warranty, why not. A few curse words later and the starter is intalled and the truck is in my laneway. Thanks for all your help Bison and everyone else who posted.

glad to be of help.

There is one more thing I'm wondering abou. When this problem first started I thought that the 1540 oil I was using was too thick in the cold temp. I replaced it with 0w40 synthetic. Is this stuff going to be too thin when the engine warms up and when it's above -10C (15F). My owners manual says to use 1040 during winter but a mechanic chastised me for using it. what's everyones opinion?

0w40 is ok year round, just more costly.
never heard of 10w40 yet where i am at.

Thanks Bison, I figured it was expensive stuff but my father-in-law was given a case of it by a guy that sold his logging business. I think this guy used it as hydraulic fluid also, not sure. anyhow only had 7L of the stuff so I guess I'll keep it in until spring. The truck seems to run real smooth on it though.
My mistake, my sun visor says to use 1030 in winter.

Should'nt consult sun visers, they dont know notting about engines.