Hi all,

Ok, the truck has never left me stranded before until yesterday while driving to look at a newer truck. (Karma?) I had driven the truck earlier in the day a couple of times without incident and the truck has always started and run like a top. I got a half mile up the road, uphill, and it just stopped...dead...silent..no sputter, all the electrical still on, just the motor was not running.
She will crank and start for fifteen seconds like she would if I left her outside in the cold and forgot to plug her in...jugging and sounding like when a gasser is missing on a couple of cylinders...and then she just dies again.
It's cold here in New England but it's been running fine...kept in garage at night and was in the garage before this mid-afternoon trip.
I rolled her back down hill all the way to the bottom of my driveway...and have had her plugged in ever since. I can hear the Lift Pump running but I opened the T valve anyway and there's good flow out of that. I have some black soot coming out the tail pipe now but not a lot because she won't start up all the way.
I am going to go through the Checklist the best I can:


1. Does the engine crank, or 'turn over'? YES
1a. Does the engine start and run? Not really, it tries to but only sounds like four or six cylinders are going.
1a1. If the engine does not start - Crack injector line (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2188140#post2188140): do you have fuel? Yes/No I've been too chicken to do this...I guess I should grow a pair and try it.
1b. Do you have a Wait To Start Light & the amount of time (seconds) lit. YES I have the light and it seems to be normal.
1c. Ambient Condition (temperature outside indicate F or C) ___20 F__ °
1d. Engine Cranking speed (if you have an accurate tachometer). Seems normal.
1e. Are you experiencing stalling? No...it just died...dash light were still on
1f. If Stalling, describe (upon startup only, down the road, hit a bump etc)
1g. If Stalling, do you notice loss of dash or instruments?
-note if experiencing stalling,you must indicate PMD location in #24.

1h. Check turbo inlet and air filter for obstructions. Cone filters have lost disk and stopped air to turbo. None found.
1i. In a no-hot start, pour a bottle of room-temp water on the injection pump. Does it start now? yes/no Have not tried this....
1.1 Lift pump test (http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39350)- describe results Good flow out of hose
2. Service Engine Light while running?- on/off/intermittent OFF No stored codes or codes showing
2a. Service Engine light does glow during start/cranking/bulb check: Yes/No Yes during start.
3. Model year 1998
3a. Odometer reading (indicate if in miles or km) 182,000miles
3b. Miles on major engine components if been replaced (example Injection pump)Unknown
3c. Indicate the model number on the Injection pump (starts DS4 or DB2......)Unknown
4. Have you scanned for engine codes? (varies by pre/post 96) yes/no YES
5. List exact results on engine codes (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/dtc.php): NONE
6. Air Filter condition (visual check) CLEAN
7. Fuel filter condition (freshly changed/condition unknown/mileage since changed) LOOKS GOOD
8. Condition of Battery terminal connections (removed, cleaned and tightened)CLEAN and Tight
8a. Known condition and age of the batteries. New in NOV.
8b. Are batteries of differing age or are they a matched set? Matched set
8c. Condition of Major Grounds (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157085). (same drill as batt - removed, cleaned, retightened)Clean
9. Upon cold start, does the radiator hose get hard quickly? Yes/no UNKNOWN
10. Upon cold start, do you have excessive white smoke? Yes/no Only when really really cold and left unplugged.
11. Do you have excessive cranking time before the engine starts? NO
12. Have you used the block heater, and does this effect engine starting?(only try for starting problems) Use it on cold cold nights and works great
13. During hard acceleration, do you have excessive black smoke? Yes/no NO
14. Do you have any unusual exhaust smoke issues? NO
15. Turbo check out (http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39368)- pass/fail UNKNOWN
16. Do you have an EGR on the engine? (An F or an S engine code 8th VIN digit) NO
17. Indicate if you know if it’s a 1500, 2500, 2500HD, 3500, 3500HD. 2500
18. Indicate fuel that you are using: Bio-diesel, #2 Diesel, #1Diesel, SVO/WVO, other Standard Diesel from the same place I always buy
18a. If running a VO (Veggie Oil fuel) setup, indicate details of your conversion (homemade, or packaged system)
19. Are you using any fuel additives? If so, please list.
20. Please indicate geographic region you are in: (example: Texas or Canada) Western Massachusetts
21. Do you have any service history available that might pertain to the problem you are having? No
22. Please indicate any modifications to the vehicle that might help us diagnose better.
23. Upon unscrewing the fuel cap (http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42338), do you have a large vacuum formed in the tank? yes/no NO
24. Location of PMD/FSD (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39436)? On the pump/remoted over intake/remoted out of engine bay (please specify placement specifically) ON IP
24a. If remote mounted, describe wiring harness (homemade or purchased from a vendor?)
24b. Indicate the location and condition of the FSD/IP grounding wire. ON IP and appears to be good
25. Are ALL glow plugs in proper working order as per this thread (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39182)? YES

At this point I would make sure your fuel is'nt gelled or has water in it.Ensure you have a solid stream of fuel flow from the fuel filter bleed valve when you open it.

Have you changed the fuel filter recently?

Ok, so here's the latest news. Luckily I have another vehicle to use so some things had to wait.

I re-checked the LP by turning the T valve and all seems like good pressure there.

I checked the bleed valve on the top of the Fuel Filter and all was good there, but I went ahead and pulled out the filter to check. It was god aweful brown and nasty. I had changed it five months ago too. So I put in a nice new filter.

After the new filter install the truck starts up and runs but it was still sputtering as if being starved for fuel. I opened the bleed valve on top of the fuel filter a couple of times. A loud audible puff of air came out the first time and then nothing the second time. I also opened the T Valve to see if that would help bleed out the air...and if that could be the culprit....because now she runs for three or four minutes but still shaking and sputtering.

I thought I recall something about the OPS cutting off the fuel if it goes bad. I actually have always carried a spare after reading. Could this be a possibility worth switching out?

Are there any other tricks or correct procedures to bleed the air out, in case I didn't do the right thing?

Any other ideas?

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

The OPS is known to cause problems but to ensure the air is really bled out of the system,you can locate the single red wire with the black terminal which is on the driver side fender well location.Apply 12 volts to that wire and that will activate the lift pump to bleed out all the air.

Has the OPS been changed on your truck?

Also make sure the bottom of the filter housing is nice and clean before you reinstall the new filter.Bleed the air out of the fuel system and let it run.It'll run erratic until the air is bled out so don't worry if its running rough for awhile.It should even out in a few minutes once its running.

Ginven that you didn't do anything to the engine prior, have IP mounted PMD, no codes and good fuel flow to the IP I'm thinking PMD.

I had the same thing happen to me when it happened to me, truck would just die, then restart, then die.....I had fuel and no codes.

To the best of my knowledge the OPS has never been changed.

I'll try to bleed more air out later tonight and let it run its course when I am home for the night and can drink a cold Newcastle Beer!

I tried my best to make sure that the bottom of the filter housing was clean but GM doesn't make that easy hey. I was sprawled out over the engine with a flashlight between my teeth and making my wife all pissed off that I grabbed the Turkey Baster. Much easier since I took off that silly cover the first day I brought the truck home. Yeah, I'll be buying a new one later today.

I'll give an update....hopefully with better results...but if anybody else has anything to add, I am all ears.

Thanks

Try re-torqing the transistor nuts on the back of the PMD to confirm, if you run good for awhile after that then its the PMD. But you will need to do a relocation to permantly solve the issue.

I'm a little confused as your sig says PMD relocated but the checklist says on IP???

Yeah, I know my sig says it's relocated but I never did. I bought a new PMD and a used extra spare, and the wiring and the whole nine yards but I figured I would play an experiment and wait and see how long it would last before it caused problems or failed. So I've been waiting.

I really think it's air still in the lines. I was just being cautious and didn't want to hurt anything if it was the OPS or something else. Just my gut feeling about the sputtering and shaking.

This may be way off base as I am a real shade tree wrench when it comes to diesels but this is my story.

I have a 1995 6.5 Yukon that acted similiarly. Turned out that the vac selenoids, driver side top if engine, there are 3, were shorting out. Raw wires some how. Not sure how that prevented the engine from firing and running but it sure did.

Ok, with a beer in hand I started her up again and began trying to bleed all the air out...by alternating between opening the top of the Fuel Filter and then the T-Valve. I also just tried to be patient and let it work itself out so to speak.

The motor was sputtering a bit but slowly began to stay idling and running for a good twenty minutes. She seemed to be idling normal so I tried driving her around our cul de sac and up the small hill that is my street. She just didn't accelerate normally. Missed a bit and then started to run rough again.

I managed to get her all the way up my driveway and back in the garage while stalling and dying, but re-starting, with the hopes that the warmer temps inside will help.

While I don't have the Water in Fuel light on, what's the best way to treat the fuel if I did get water in the fuel? My wife reminded me that I did wash the truck a couple of days ago at the do it yourself place. She needed to haev all the nasty winter gunk washed off. Any additives that are better than others? Being a '98 with 192,000 miles on her how could I tell if the sock in the tank is glogged up (without dropping the tank)? I guess I am wondering about the sock because of the gunky fuel filter.

Will try again tomorrow mid-day when temps are closer to 30 degrees F and hopefully much warmer in garage.

Ok, with a beer in hand I started her up again and began trying to bleed all the air out...by alternating between opening the top of the Fuel Filter and then the T-Valve. I also just tried to be patient and let it work itself out so to speak.

The motor was sputtering a bit but slowly began to stay idling and running for a good twenty minutes. She seemed to be idling normal so I tried driving her around our cul de sac and up the small hill that is my street. She just didn't accelerate normally. Missed a bit and then started to run rough again.

I managed to get her all the way up my driveway and back in the garage while stalling and dying, but re-starting, with the hopes that the warmer temps inside will help.

While I don't have the Water in Fuel light on, what's the best way to treat the fuel if I did get water in the fuel? My wife reminded me that I did wash the truck a couple of days ago at the do it yourself place. She needed to haev all the nasty winter gunk washed off. Any additives that are better than others? Being a '98 with 192,000 miles on her how could I tell if the sock in the tank is glogged up (without dropping the tank)? I guess I am wondering about the sock because of the gunky fuel filter.

Will try again tomorrow mid-day when temps are closer to 30 degrees F and hopefully much warmer in garage.

I would be wondering also especially with gunk.

Disconnect the Lift Pump Fuel line from fuel tank and blow compressed air back into the tank. If your sock was clogged/close to clogged. It wont be now. It may come back shortly, It may not. BUT if it was the problem the truck will run normal for some amount of time.

You said you have a new PMD. Hook it up and give that a shot just to eliminate that possibility. If you drive it, make sure you have it attached to a heat sink. it will only take a short period of time. By the way, I'm right in your neck of the woods.

x2 PMD

X3...you have a spare...jeez man just test the damn thing...infact...forget just testing the damn thing install the relocate kit properly and hook it up and freakin leave it.

i wouldn't normally scream PMD right away because it's not a cheap part but you HAVE IT....if it still doesn't run right...fix the fuel issue and then looky looky you've got a solid truck again...and it won't strand you with a bad PMD later(likely when the spare is no where near)

If you have not following, x4 on the PMD.

Dust it off and put that NEW one on it with a heatsink and tried it.

You will be less STUMPED.

Ok, I get the point. I will go ahead and install the PMD that I already have. Certainly can't hurt. I might as well.

I think I'll try the compressed air trick as well.

I'll give an update when I've had a chance to work on it. I just took delivery on another truck so I am playing with my new toy...a 2001 F-250 Super Duty, Crew Cab, 7.3L Diesel and shovling snow. But I gotta get the Chevy up and running too.

Thanks for the advice.

Let us know how it works out

I'll take it if you're not using it.... I KNOW it'll fix my problem :D

Ok, with a beer in hand I started her up again and began trying to bleed all the air out...by alternating between opening the top of the Fuel Filter and then the T-Valve. I also just tried to be patient and let it work itself out so to speak.

The motor was sputtering a bit but slowly began to stay idling and running for a good twenty minutes. She seemed to be idling normal so I tried driving her around our cul de sac and up the small hill that is my street. She just didn't accelerate normally. Missed a bit and then started to run rough again.

I managed to get her all the way up my driveway and back in the garage while stalling and dying, but re-starting, with the hopes that the warmer temps inside will help.

While I don't have the Water in Fuel light on, what's the best way to treat the fuel if I did get water in the fuel? My wife reminded me that I did wash the truck a couple of days ago at the do it yourself place. She needed to haev all the nasty winter gunk washed off. Any additives that are better than others? Being a '98 with 192,000 miles on her how could I tell if the sock in the tank is glogged up (without dropping the tank)? I guess I am wondering about the sock because of the gunky fuel filter.

Will try again tomorrow mid-day when temps are closer to 30 degrees F and hopefully much warmer in garage.


To bleed the fuel filter: crack the plastic bleeder on top. Then in the relay box on the fenderwell remove the fuel pump relay. Take a short piece of wire and jump the top right to the bottom left contact (when standing by the fender)(someone on the site has a diagram posted). You should hear the lift pump energize. Shortly you should see fuel squirting up out of the bleeder. If the fuel comes up slow or not at all then your sock is clogged. When you are satisfied that there is no more air. Close the bleeder, replace the relay and start the truck.

The only way to remove all the contaminated fuel is to drop the tank. There is no easy way to drain ALL the fuel out. I have been able to siphon MOST of the fuel and contaminants out and then refill completely with fresh fuel.

An easy way to clean your sock or strainer is to break the line at the rear of the lift pump. You can then hold up a piece of clear tubing and blow air back into the sock. I have done this on the side of the highway.

Always carry a spare fuel filter with you. I could prevent you from being stranded. fleetfilter.com is your friend.

Hi all,

Ok, I finally have time and decent temps to work on the truck. I am trying to jump the LP but I can't seems to get it to energize. When I turn the key the LP energizes and fuel comes out like crazy. I attached a small hose and she practically filled adiet coke bottle even though fuel is spilling out the bottom of the black bleed top.

One more question...I can see the PMD, but I can't seem to find the plug/wiring for it. Which way is the plug pointed on the IP? Toward the Fire Wall? Is it just easier if I remove the intake? Will I need a new gasket for the intake if I remove it? Any tricks here?

thanks,
Binky

Now, the LP energize when you jump it? or before you jump it?

The PMD connector is on the back towards the firewall facing the front. So the clip is in the front, loosen the clip gently with a screwdriver. Then you can gently push it backward. After that, get a coat hanger with a small hook at the end, you can fish it from underneath the manifold. It is a little tricky but doable.

You don't have to take out the manifold and you need a gasket.

I took the whole pmd out without removing the intake, four hours of the most tedious work ever.

ok, here's the latest.

I realized I was trying to bleed the air out incorrectly, so I got my wife to lend a hand. Just turning the ket on and off mind you. Then I figured out how to correctly jump the LP. I got a nice piece of wire and it would flow. It didn't seem like there was a whole lot of fuel cominng through so I went down to the boathouse and borrowed the aircompressor.

After unhooking the fuel line in to the LP I realized there was just a trickle of fuel. I blew air back up the line a few times. Could here it gurgling in the tank, Re-attached everything. And bleed air out again. I actually took the filter all the way out again to make sure I had the holes lined up properly. I jumped the LP and boy did it look like a gusher! So, I bleed air. Started her up and tried to let it work itself out.

She will start and idle. But still jumping and sputtering. Almost as if air is still getting back in or if she is starved for fuel. I let her idle for a good ten minutes. Every now and again she stalls and then starts right back up.

Since I've tried the fuel filter, the fuel sock in tank, and jumped LP. I guess it's on to the PMD.

Ok, so it took a little fishing with a home made wire hook but I was able to unplugg the PMD connected to the IP and connect my new PMD mounted on a heat sink.

At first turn of the key all seemed well, but then after a minute, or less, it went right back to sputtering and hickuping and stalling.

I even tried a second PMD I have.

So, I also tried replacing the LP solenoid or relay or whatever you call it. Thge thing I pulled to jump the LP in the first place. I figured since I had one of those I might as well try that. No difference.

So, on to the OPS. But I don't know where it is. Where is the OPS?

How reliable is the Water in Fuel sensor? I don't have the light on, but I hate to rule out contaminated fuel...although I bought where I always bought.

The only code I've seen is P0231 which happened after I jumped the LP.

So I thought I would try the OPS...again it's a part I've been carrying around just in case.

I guess I shouldn't rely on compressed air to clean out the snot sock either. It might be time to drop the tank. Yikes.

Yeah, drop the tank next and have a look.

So, how complicated is it to drop the tank?

Looks like two straps. I've already started hitting them with PB Blaster.

I know I'll need a good jack and a board/block of wood.

Off to do a search....but any advice?

Binky

Maybe try this first? put some diesel in a 6 gallon outboard motor tank direct connect to the inlet of the fuel filter, disable the lift pump and block its output! and see what it does. Keep in mind that if everthing is normal your fuel consumption will be about 6 gallons in 15 minutes due to the return line still going to your normal fuel tank. If the truck runs normal, you don't have a tank problem.

Interesting idea. I am a rowing coach so I have plenty of small cans like that available.

But, if the engine ran well hooked up to an outside source, wouldn't that prove I DO have a fuel/tank problem?

Binky

uhm yes...it would...i think he got it wrong...

the OPS is on the rear of the motor/head on the driver side i believe...a bit of a PITA to get to, but a good service item....and will definetely cause issues.

i wouldn't drop the tank just yet, there's other easier things to do...like the OPS and the external fuel supply trick...

Yeah, I will definitely try replacing the OPS and even the LP before I drop the tank.

I tried replacing the LP Relay/Solenoid but perhaps in combination with the OPS and LP. The OPS I already have and the LP looks like it's the original. I was very surprised that while LP is rusted and looks one hundred years old the fittings on the front and back are nice and clean and I was able to take the from the tank line out easily when I tried blowing air back towards the stocking.

I was even contemplating trying to fill the Fuel Filter cannister with SeaFoam, to see if it might help 'clean things out' so to speak. Certainly can't hurt.

thanks all,

Binky

Maybe try this first? put some diesel in a 6 gallon outboard motor tank direct connect to the inlet of the fuel filter, disable the lift pump and block its output! and see what it does. Keep in mind that if everthing is normal your fuel consumption will be about 6 gallons in 15 minutes due to the return line still going to your normal fuel tank. If the truck runs normal, you don't have a tank problem.
Well I stand corrected! If the truck runs normal with the external tank then the stock system is the problem. Forgive me I am working on taxes and got on the forum for a break:) I put the ext tank on the toolbox in the bed to make it gravity feed. the primer bulb worked to purge air out of the system.