Here's the deal. I have an '08 LMM. I bought a tuner. I'm not drag racing or pulling a sled. I was simply looking for a little power and economy. I got an Evo and have been very happy with it. After using it for a few months, I hear about the now infamous GM bulletin where GM is actively voiding warranty's. In a nutshell, GM is taking the position that if a drivetrain warranty claim is being made, and there is evidence of a non-GM tune in the ECM, steps should be takn to not only deny the claim, but to void the warranty. Hold On. This is more than I bargained for; this info came out after I had the Evo. I just paid $50K for a truck and maybe it won't have a warranty. WTF. Not only that, but I just shelled out some serious coin for a zero deductible GMPP extended warranty 'til 2013 that may not be worth the paper it's printed on. WTF. After some serious thought to the consequences, I called GM and spilled the beans. Begged forgiveness. I was very upfront and explained my position and advised the warranty was more important to me than the tuner. This was a calculated risk as I feared GM may trace my call and send a warranty SWAT team over to repossess my warranty. The Customer Service guy was very nice, put me on hold and went to find an answer to my simple question; What do I do now? How do I preserve my warranty?? He came back with an answer that was easy; too good to be true? Take the truck to my dealer, show them the tuner, and ask them to inspect it. If there were no codes or drivetrain damage, they would note the file and if no tunes were installed after that date, my warranty would be intact. Fair enough. My thoughts were to return to stock and just use the Evo for gauges. I made an appt and took my truck, and the GM file number to my dealer. At this point, I should point out that I have a very good relationship with my dealer and trust them, otherwise I would not have ignored all of the alarm bells going off in my head. The dealer listened to me and said they had no idea how to handle this, and who was going to pay for the inspection? I agreed to foot the bill up to an hour of labor. They kept the truck and called GM for instructions. This is where things get bad. The truck checked out fine; no damage (DUH, I baby the truck) no codes (Double DUH) and the tune was stock. However, even though there was no warranty claim being made, GM told them to take digital pics of the ECM programing history as shown on the Tech2 and e-mail them to them. This is where the dealer said Whoa. I am grateful. This sounds like GM is trying to gather hard evidence to void my warranty before any claim is made. I am just trying to do the right thing here and I feel like GM is trying to screw me. Nothing has been sent to GM, the dealer didn't charge me for their time, and now I must decide what my next step is going to be. The service manager just said wait until there is a claim; why get worried about something that may never come. I'm afraid to just wait and four years later, I have a valid tranny claim and GM won't honor it because I had a non-stock tune four years ago for two months. Thoughts?

WTF??? That is all just Fu**ed up. That makes me want to keep my 03 LB7 now. Ford and Dodge has been pulllin those sceems for years and i always braged to my firends that gm dont care what i do to my truck and will honor warrenty.

Gm is most lilky trying to gather evidince to void your warrnety, because they dont even have enought money to keep the heat on in there factorys. But the high end exicitives have a 400,000 quartlery income just for sittin on there asses and flying around and telling other ppl how to do there jobs. GRRRR High paid ppl piss me off.... I & everone else are diggin and working there asses off and are living check to check. i got paid yesterday and its gone alredy.

Well good luck. i have no idea what you should do........

First of all I dont tell other people what to do with their money or toys. I have a friend who put a EDGE tuner on a 08 LMM GMC. He had nothing but trouble out of it the whole time. Yeah, it would out run hell. At 4,000 miles he had a issue with I think the turbo, and took it to the dealer. The dealer told him he had a nationwide voided powertrain warranty and would not fix the turbo. They gave him a printout of everytime he changed the program in the ECM. They said they would fix anything on the truck that was not powertrain related. He had to pay someone he knew $1,600 to fix it. It just dont make sense to me to do this. He has a $52,000 truck with a voided warranty. I hope you come out ok. I told my dealer about this and he said the factory is not going to fix these trucks when these people retune them, tear them up, and bring them in to be fixed under warranty, and in a way you cant blame them. There are some on here that sware by them. Thats ok. Ask yourself what you can afford. GOOD LUCK.

Just buy a second ECM that has never been flashed with an aftermarket program.

x2

Trippen, you do know that the ECM has to be programmed with the serial # and if you could get a twin Ecm the totals in the different Ecm's on the truck would not add up. It does come down to the old saying if you want to play you PAY. On a class eight all warranty claims on the power train, Must include an ECM print out It shows the totals of fuel used, speeds, torques, fuel rates, everything. Any thing they want to know and everyone that thinks their programmer, or they are smarter than all the engine manufacturers, are kidding them-selves, they have seen a lot of tricks and with computing power so cheap they can figure out a way to log any event that is out of specification. And every time the ECM is reprogramed it logs that device in to memory or that it, was reprogrammed, and it logs that as an event.

Just buy a second ECM that has never been flashed with an aftermarket program.

Will this really work? My problem with GM on this is there is nothing wrong with the truck. I'm willing to remove it; but by all appearances GM is not willing to do the right thing. Go figure.

WTF??? That is all just Fu**ed up. That makes me want to keep my 03 LB7 now. Ford and Dodge has been pulllin those sceems for years and i always braged to my firends that gm dont care what i do to my truck and will honor warrenty.

Gm is most lilky trying to gather evidince to void your warrnety, because they dont even have enought money to keep the heat on in there factorys. But the high end exicitives have a 400,000 quartlery income just for sittin on there asses and flying around and telling other ppl how to do there jobs. GRRRR High paid ppl piss me off.... I & everone else are diggin and working there asses off and are living check to check. i got paid yesterday and its gone alredy.

Well good luck. i have no idea what you should do........

:rolleyes: STFU
You are not helping in this thread and just because you live check to check it is your fault not the people who have good jobs
Just buy a second ECM that has never been flashed with an aftermarket program.

Trippen, you do know that the ECM has to be programmed with the serial # and if you could get a twin Ecm the totals in the different Ecm's on the truck would not add up. It does come down to the old saying if you want to play you PAY. On a class eight all warranty claims on the power train, Must include an ECM print out It shows the totals of fuel used, speeds, torques, fuel rates, everything. Any thing they want to know and everyone that thinks their programmer, or they are smarter than all the engine manufacturers, are kidding them-selves, they have seen a lot of tricks and with computing power so cheap they can figure out a way to log any event that is out of specification. And every time the ECM is reprogramed it logs that device in to memory or that it, was reprogrammed, and it logs that as an event.

What if you bought a second ECM and had GM program it for the new O.S? Then it would match the truck right?

Not to be rude but really?

Did you really think adding a non factory tune would not void??

I agree with the voiding when tunes are added, why should GM pay because you wanted more power. We can't blame GM for saving money, why shouldn't they?

Not to be rude but really?

Did you really think adding a non factory tune would not void??

I agree with the voiding when tunes are added, why should GM pay because you wanted more power. We can't blame GM for saving money, why shouldn't they?

Really. I've never gone above level 3 and there is no damage to the truck. Finally, the GM memo came out after I already had the tune. I agree with you if there is evidece of a tune destroying a tranny, but aai I have no warranty claim; I just want to preserve what I paid for.

What if you bought a second ECM and had GM program it for the new O.S? Then it would match the truck right?

That's what I'd like to know.

The Magnuson Moss Warranty Act clearly says that a manufacturer cannot void the warranty on a vehicle because you install aftermarket parts, unless the aftermarket part causes the problem. I would think that the manufacturer would bear the burden of proof that the tuner caused the problem. For example, a broken rod or piston should be analyzed to determine if it failed because of a manufacturers defect, or because of a non GM tune. If you fight, and prove the failure was not a result of the tuner, you would most likely win in court.

The problem is that most of us don't have the resources to take GM and their staff of attorneys to court, and in the meantime, the consumer has to pay for the repairs. It may take years to actually settle a lawsuit. GM is gambling that they won't get challenged because of the prospect of facing a long legal battle. Those who I have talked to who have challenged GM have got them to back down, but most of us would prefer not to ever have to find out.

I do think that there is evidence that some tuners cause breakdowns, and GM is within their rights to refuse to pay for those repairs.

Since there is no breakdown of the OP's truck, I don't think that they can void the warranty. There could, however be damage, and if there is a claim later on, I am sure GM willtry to blame it on the tuner. If it was me, I would remove the tune, and not do anything else until there is a warranty claim for a repair. At that time, I would be prepared to try to prove that the breakdown was not caused by the tuner.

[quote=gmduramax;3095652]:rolleyes: STFU
You are not helping in this thread and just because you live check to check it is your fault not the people who have good jobs

Dude, its a free country, i can say what ever i want. Either your high paid and think your better then everyone else or you took it the wrong way. Your tellin me that all the corperate heads makin all that money they think there worth in these hard times cannot give some back to a failing industry. I buy tools for my job and dont get reimbursted. And they can buy these trucks and have moiney to pay for repairs. Yea i am a little jelous, but if i had that money, i would do better things. AND i made that choice to live check to check, and i pay for it.

The Magnuson Moss Warranty Act clearly says that a manufacturer cannot void the warranty on a vehicle because you install aftermarket parts, unless the aftermarket part causes the problem. I would think that the manufacturer would bear the burden of proof that the tuner caused the problem. For example, a broken rod or piston should be analyzed to determine if it failed because of a manufacturers defect, or because of a non GM tune. If you fight, and prove the failure was not a result of the tuner, you would most likely win in court.

The problem is that most of us don't have the resources to take GM and their staff of attorneys to court, and in the meantime, the consumer has to pay for the repairs. It may take years to actually settle a lawsuit. GM is gambling that they won't get challenged because of the prospect of facing a long legal battle. Those who I have talked to who have challenged GM have got them to back down, but most of us would prefer not to ever have to find out.

I do think that there is evidence that some tuners cause breakdowns, and GM is within their rights to refuse to pay for those repairs.

Since there is no breakdown of the OP's truck, I don't think that they can void the warranty. There could, however be damage, and if there is a claim later on, I am sure GM willtry to blame it on the tuner. If it was me, I would remove the tune, and not do anything else until there is a warranty claim for a repair. At that time, I would be prepared to try to prove that the breakdown was not caused by the tuner.

I understand, and agree with, nearly everyting in your post. I am familiar with The Magnuson Moss Warranty Act. Unfortunately, it is too easy for them to just void the warranty and then the burden is on the consumer; not the other way around as it should be. I'm not saying they are trying to "void" my warranty this minute. I think they are gathering evdence now and will file it away until when/if I make a drivetrain claim. So, it won't matter if I make a laim tomorrow or in 5 years, their response will be predetermined; my warranty will be declared void.

Has any one seen this PRINT OUT, that shows all the tunes. And my thought was that the tuner saved the files then uploaded the new ones. :) So if it does that; then how can the ECM save the records of the tunes, if you backed up the old one first? Oh and mine is an 07, Im not quite sure that they can actually see all the tuners out there. Maybe just some that are like plug and play!! Has any one thought about that? And if this is such a major issue how come there is no disclamers on the tuners? In the worl we live in if GM voids your warrenty just sue the companies that mad the tunner for not tell you:D:rolleyes::D;) Like the hot coffie at McDonalds!!!:rolleyes:

Dont get mad just a noob trying to learn all this fancy computer talk!

Change everything back to stock. Go to the people you went to and pretend the conversation never happened.. If they say what about this or that that you said last week. Say I don't know what you are talking about.. Prove it...

The Magnuson Moss Warranty Act clearly says that a manufacturer cannot void the warranty on a vehicle because you install aftermarket parts, unless the aftermarket part causes the problem. I would think that the manufacturer would bear the burden of proof that the tuner caused the problem. For example, a broken rod or piston should be analyzed to determine if it failed because of a manufacturers defect, or because of a non GM tune. If you fight, and prove the failure was not a result of the tuner, you would most likely win in court.

The problem is that most of us don't have the resources to take GM and their staff of attorneys to court, and in the meantime, the consumer has to pay for the repairs. It may take years to actually settle a lawsuit. GM is gambling that they won't get challenged because of the prospect of facing a long legal battle. Those who I have talked to who have challenged GM have got them to back down, but most of us would prefer not to ever have to find out.

I do think that there is evidence that some tuners cause breakdowns, and GM is within their rights to refuse to pay for those repairs.

Since there is no breakdown of the OP's truck, I don't think that they can void the warranty. There could, however be damage, and if there is a claim later on, I am sure GM willtry to blame it on the tuner. If it was me, I would remove the tune, and not do anything else until there is a warranty claim for a repair. At that time, I would be prepared to try to prove that the breakdown was not caused by the tuner.
MM Warranty Act is great in theory. As you state, most of us regular folk don't have the time and/or money to take such a claim to court against GM, which is what it would take. Even then, no guarantees. IMHO, GM has plenty of professional designers and mechanical engineers that could easily show that increasing HP/TQ increases stresses on drivetrain components. All they'd have to do would be to show that within a certain range of increases, that stock parts "can" fail. There would not have to be a definitive number, as even stock parts are subject to manufacturing tolerances and could fail at a "range of values". IMO, that would be all they would have to do and I bet that research/info already exists.

I've said this in other posts here and I stndd by it. If you want to tune/add HP/TQ that is your right, but don't cry on this forum about GM not honoring a warranty that you violated the terms of. READ your warranty terms, adding a tune is violating them. As for MMW Act, it isn't worth the paper it's written on. If you add tune and your radio or seat heaters go out, GM shouldn't void your warranty on those items and that is the type scenario where MM Act should fall into play and possibly have some teeth IMHO. Although I don't hear to many complaints about GM doing this sort of BS. It is always like " I added this tune and now my tranny slips, or my TC is screwed up or I snapped a tie rod and GM won't cover it......." All GM would have to do is put a designer/engineer on the stand that shows proof that adding HP/TQ adds stress to components and shortens their life and reduces their performance. That is of course if you have the time/money to take GM to court. Any reasonable jury will laugh you out of the court. They don't have to prove that on Joe Smith's truck his certain tune cause this specific failure at this specific force.

If you want to play, be prepared to pay and don't cry about it when the consequences come around.

jfarr, don't sugar coat it. Tell him how you really feel..:D

MM Warranty Act is great in theory. As you state, most of us regular folk don't have the time and/or money to take such a claim to court against GM, which is what it would take. Even then, no guarantees. IMHO, GM has plenty of professional designers and mechanical engineers that could easily show that increasing HP/TQ increases stresses on drivetrain components. All they'd have to do would be to show that within a certain range of increases, that stock parts "can" fail. There would not have to be a definitive number, as even stock parts are subject to manufacturing tolerances and could fail at a "range of values". IMO, that would be all they would have to do and I bet that research/info already exists.

I've said this in other posts here and I stndd by it. If you want to tune/add HP/TQ that is your right, but don't cry on this forum about GM not honoring a warranty that you violated the terms of. READ your warranty terms, adding a tune is violating them. As for MMW Act, it isn't worth the paper it's written on. If you add tune and your radio or seat heaters go out, GM shouldn't void your warranty on those items and that is the type scenario where MM Act should fall into play and possibly have some teeth IMHO. Although I don't hear to many complaints about GM doing this sort of BS. It is always like " I added this tune and now my tranny slips, or my TC is screwed up or I snapped a tie rod and GM won't cover it......." All GM would have to do is put a designer/engineer on the stand that shows proof that adding HP/TQ adds stress to components and shortens their life and reduces their performance. That is of course if you have the time/money to take GM to court. Any reasonable jury will laugh you out of the court. They don't have to prove that on Joe Smith's truck his certain tune cause this specific failure at this specific force.

If you want to play, be prepared to pay and don't cry about it when the consequences come around.

I agree that if the modification caused the damage, it is not GM's responsibility. However, to say you have a tuner, so the tuner damaged the truck is wrong. GM does have the burden of proof. If you analyze a broken rod (or other part) and find a manufactures defect, then the tuner should not void the warranty, because the part was already defective. Parts can and are made from materials that have natural flaws. If the part proves to have been damaged by excessive fuel because of the tuner, GM does not have to pay, or the transmission proves to have been damaged because you are doing boosted launches with a 300HP tuner, again it is not GM's responsibility.

And no reasonable jury will laugh you out of court. A reasonable jury looks at all the evidence presented by both sides before forming an opinion. Most jurors, in fact have a tendency to side with consumers in lawsuits against big corporations. Remember the McDonalds coffee lawsuit. Everyone who buys coffee expects it to be served hot, so the plaintiff should have known it would be hot, but the jury determined there was reasonable evidence to support the claim.

Yup, if you modify your vehicle, you will always stand a risk of warranty issues. It doesn't even have to be a tuner. I've seen folk get hassled about having drag radials on their car. I went in for a clutch pedal sticking to the floor in a stock 2000 Camaro, and they said that I was "driving the vehicle outside it's design parameters", a cute way of saying they can't prove I race it, but they think I do. :rolleyes:

Now if you blow your engine up because you increased the engine output past the factory rating, hate to say it, but GM does have a good point. They engineered it for XXX HP, and running it up higher than that WILL reduce the lifespan of the driveline. No question. The good news is, that most folk with "simple" mods won't have problems related to power-up modifications.

There is no simple answer, nor one that fits everyone. We have 85,000mi on a 3500SRW GMC, and it has been beat on at higher than factory power (+50 to +250rwhp) for all but a couple thousand miles. 40,000 miles on an LBZ that runs over 540rwhp daily. If one of them breaks something related to my increasing the power, I'm going to pay the bill. But if the water pump leaks, or some other non-performance related problem occurs, I will do my damnest to get them to foot the bill. Luckily, just a couple water pumps, a speedo cluster, and some other minor issues have been all that has went wrong.

If you are going reflash your ECM, it's best to have a spare. Not only for warranty, but in the rare instance the ECM croaks during flashing. I buy them from SoCalDiesel.

Never discard stock parts, and return truck to stock before warranty visits.

For most of us, this will be never be important. Knock on wood. But like I tell my everyone who hotrods their Dmaxes, "nothing you do to increase power is going to improve the life of your truck".

its not just hot roding your duramax. im starting to get hassled about my lift. front diff is leaking and they wanna try to make me pay for it. if they feel the lift is causeing the leak. i cant imagine if i ever have tranny problems.

the dealer wanted to make me pay for an egr valve because I had an aftermarket air filter on it. so I have a gm "approved" delco filter on and payed $650 for an egr valve and guess what? iI still have egr problems ****** munday chevy

The best thing I can see for you guys to do is get a SPARE ECM and TUNE THE SPARE. Each ECM has a traceability # which is a sort of serial # made up typically of the broadcast code for the ECM, the serial # and the plant of manufacturer and other data depending on the application.

Now I havent specifically checked a diesel but every GM GAS vehicle i've seen so far that label on the ECM (and other modules) is scanned during assembly and added to the electronic build sheet that is stored and can be pulled up by the dealer via VIS. All they would have to do is check that # against the one on the label and internally stored in your ECM and they could probably cry foul on that as well.

Moral of the story? Tune your spare leave your factory one stock :)

the dealer wanted to make me pay for an egr valve because I had an aftermarket air filter on it. so I have a gm "approved" delco filter on and payed $650 for an egr valve and guess what? iI still have egr problems ****** munday chevy

The dealer lied to you. The EGR valve itself has nothing to do with the aircleaner. The gases go OUT from the EGR, not into the inlet.

Did you get the old parts? Always ask for the old parts.

Plus emissions equipment has an extended warranty based on federal and state laws.

x2

I have a Banks 6-Gun tuner on my 03 and it piggybacks into the engine wiring harness so I plan on removing it and adding mechanical gauges if(when ?) I have injector issues and hope the ecm doesn't "know" it been lied to,any thoughts? P.S. I'd get rid of the the Banks thing now,but It does have a pyro gauge and I'm not keen on spending the money till I have to.

To tell you the truth, I think the pyro gauge, especially the lead coiled up somewhere is more of a dead give away for GM to dig deep into a powertrain claim than anything else. A tech/rep sees that and it's game on.

I have a Banks 6-Gun tuner on my 03 and it piggybacks into the engine wiring harness so I plan on removing it and adding mechanical gauges if(when ?) I have injector issues and hope the ecm doesn't "know" it been lied to,any thoughts? P.S. I'd get rid of the the Banks thing now,but It does have a pyro gauge and I'm not keen on spending the money till I have to.

If they want to look, they will know. They can see the torque being input to the tranny. That tells te whole story.

To tell you the truth, I think the pyro gauge, especially the lead coiled up somewhere is more of a dead give away for GM to dig deep into a powertrain claim than anything else. A tech/rep sees that and it's game on.
Are you saying that, in your opinion, a pyro gauge equates to added HP/TQ in most service techs minds?? If that is the case they all need to be slapped up side the head. Many people run gages to simply monitor the performance of their OEM setup and to possibly prevent damage due to overheating when towing heavy or up long steep grades. I am considering boost/pyro gages and am not remotely interested in a tune. I tow medium to heavy up/down Colo mtns and think it would be a good idea to watch EGT's more than anything. If anything, in situations like mine, a boost and EGT gage should be applauded as it will likely point out a problem prior to it becoming catastrophic.

Most service depts need to pull their heads out of their arses and things would be much better.

It really does depend on "your" dealer, I've had my truck back for several things and no problems at all. Now granted if my exhaust manifold cracks and I have drilled it to install a pyro, oh well. But if my #2 pisiton cracks I would expect them to make good, because that has nothing with me drilling the exhaust manifold.
The point is "my" dealer would.

All warranty work has to be approved by a GM tech, so "your" dealer might not! I wanted to install an EGT guage, but after talking to my dealer and to GM directly, I decided not to do it. Now when I am towing in the mountains of Colorado and the turbo gets to hot and melts the pistons and rings, then they can replace the engine. I was always under the impression that trying to prevent something before it happened was the way to go, but I guess GM does not see it that way!

I have an edge juice with attitude package. Does it replace the stock ecm or just plug in series to modify the signal? In other words does it also leave a signiture that is tracable? i also only bought the thing to try and bump up fuel mileage. Thanks

I have an edge juice with attitude package. Does it replace the stock ecm or just plug in series to modify the signal? In other words does it also leave a signiture that is tracable? i also only bought the thing to try and bump up fuel mileage. Thanks

No, it does not replace the ECM; it plugs in downstream from it. Itdoes not leave a telltale "footprint" on the ECM as it does not program it, but if the General looks enough, they can tell that the torque input into the tranny is ore than stock. Now, if you only use the Juice on economy, that should not be a problem.

I didnt think the dealer could tell a truck had a programmer? They can go in and look at how many times the ecm has been recalibrated? Even if the stock cal was returned?

I didnt think the dealer could tell a truck had a programmer? They can go in and look at how many times the ecm has been recalibrated? Even if the stock cal was returned?

Yes, that's what started all of this. They can see the last 10 ECM programs and are instructed to take steps to void the powertrain warranty as a result.

Can you put the stock program in 10 times then? Is this all dmaxs or just the lmm?

Can you put the stock program in 10 times then? Is this all dmaxs or just the lmm?

Not sure but most people just get a spare ECM and tune the spare. Much easier to just swap that out then worry about them seeing the 10 different calibrations with different CVN's.

Can you put the stock program in 10 times then? Is this all dmaxs or just the lmm?

No, you can't just put the stock program in 10 times and the memo from GM that i saw covers all Duramax years. You can use another ECM for tuning and keep your original one stock, but they can still read the elevated torque inputs to the tranny. They've pretty well covered themselves this time.

So is trans input torque determined and stored electronically in the control module for the trans or rather are they looking at clutch wear? Is there a way to access the control module for the trans if input torque is stored in this manner? I don't do anything other than pull a travel trailer or farm equipment but I have dialed the programmer to higher levels(not hotrodded) but to see if there is a difference in MPG for these tunes.

Thanks for your previous responses. There seems to be an unlimited wealth of info on this site. Especially for a newbe.
Jim

So is trans input torque determined and stored electronically in the control module for the trans or rather are they looking at clutch wear? Is there a way to access the control module for the trans if input torque is stored in this manner? I don't do anything other than pull a travel trailer or farm equipment but I have dialed the programmer to higher levels(not hotrodded) but to see if there is a difference in MPG for these tunes.

Thanks for your previous responses. There seems to be an unlimited wealth of info on this site. Especially for a newbe.
Jim

I believe they access the Allison control module to gather the torque input info.

I believe they access the Allison control module to gather the torque input info.

So use a spare ecm and tcm and they would be clueless?

So use a spare ecm and tcm and they would be clueless?

Dunno if it's that easy. They could match the previous ECM factory tunes on the service record to the ECM (if any) and number of regens to the mileage/age of truck... I'm sure there are more clues, but it really boils down to how far they would go and how hard they want to look and how much time they want to spend to avoid paying a claim.

If you switch the LMM ECM, will the dealer see the amount of mileage compared to the number of regenerations?

I have tuned several LB7, LLY, and LBZs and had them go back for warranty work and not have any issues. Nothing catostrophic though.

Id be interested in knowing if you switched out both the ECM and TCM if that would work too. I know EFI Live has a way of getting around all of this for the LMM but last I heard they werent going to release it due to increased pressures from GM that they would eventually lock the computers all together like the BMW's and such. Its the few that abuse this that results in what it is. As with most things in life the minority ruin it for the majority.

This should be in the Tuning section for better answers. Put a link to this there.

Yup, if you modify your vehicle, you will always stand a risk of warranty issues. It doesn't even have to be a tuner. I've seen folk get hassled about having drag radials on their car. I went in for a clutch pedal sticking to the floor in a stock 2000 Camaro, and they said that I was "driving the vehicle outside it's design parameters", a cute way of saying they can't prove I race it, but they think I do. :rolleyes:

Now if you blow your engine up because you increased the engine output past the factory rating, hate to say it, but GM does have a good point. They engineered it for XXX HP, and running it up higher than that WILL reduce the lifespan of the driveline. No question. The good news is, that most folk with "simple" mods won't have problems related to power-up modifications.

There is no simple answer, nor one that fits everyone. We have 85,000mi on a 3500SRW GMC, and it has been beat on at higher than factory power (+50 to +250rwhp) for all but a couple thousand miles. 40,000 miles on an LBZ that runs over 540rwhp daily. If one of them breaks something related to my increasing the power, I'm going to pay the bill. But if the water pump leaks, or some other non-performance related problem occurs, I will do my damnest to get them to foot the bill. Luckily, just a couple water pumps, a speedo cluster, and some other minor issues have been all that has went wrong.

If you are going reflash your ECM, it's best to have a spare. Not only for warranty, but in the rare instance the ECM croaks during flashing. I buy them from SoCalDiesel.

Never discard stock parts, and return truck to stock before warranty visits.

For most of us, this will be never be important. Knock on wood. But like I tell my everyone who hotrods their Dmaxes, "nothing you do to increase power is going to improve the life of your truck".


Arent you the guy with pics of you and your car at the track and youre such a huge bastard that you have to take the driver side t-tops off so that your helmet can poke out above the roofline?

hahaha I thought I recognized your name.

When did everything change? Ive always been told that as long as you return the stock programming the dealer cant see anything. Have things changed or what?

If you switch the LMM ECM, will the dealer see the amount of mileage compared to the number of regenerations?

If you look to the post directly above yours, I mentioned the same thing.

When did everything change? Ive always been told that as long as you return the stock programming the dealer cant see anything. Have things changed or what?

Did you read this thread?? It's all in here. YES, they can see the last 10 tunes.

This is OLD news anyhow. Its been out for quite some time now. At least since I started looking at LMM's last July. Goto EFI Live's website and search it.

This is OLD news anyhow. Its been out for quite some time now. At least since I started looking at LMM's last July. Goto EFI Live's website and search it.

It may be old news to you, but it's obviously not to everyone.

When did everything change? Ive always been told that as long as you return the stock programming the dealer cant see anything. Have things changed or what?

All Duramax's record a CVN. This tells the dealer if the tune in the vehicle matches the tune they installed from the factory. The difference between the LB7, LLY and LBZ when compared to the LMM is that the first 3 only record the CVN currently in the vehicle (ie you return to stock, the stock CVN will be shown) whereas with the LMM it records the last 10 unique entries. For the LMM returning to stock still leave 9 entries that potentially don't match the factory CVN. Reflashing the same tune 10 times doesn't fix the problem either - it's only 1 unique entry.

Cheers
Cindy

All Duramax's record a CVN. This tells the dealer if the tune in the vehicle matches the tune they installed from the factory. The difference between the LB7, LLY and LBZ when compared to the LMM is that the first 3 only record the CVN currently in the vehicle (ie you return to stock, the stock CVN will be shown) whereas with the LMM it records the last 10 unique entries. For the LMM returning to stock still leave 9 entries that potentially don't match the factory CVN. Reflashing the same tune 10 times doesn't fix the problem either - it's only 1 unique entry.

Cheers
Cindy

So basically those with LMM's are the ones who need to be concerned primarily, correct? For them to determine if an earlier model Duramax has been programmed it would require them to do more work and/or compare data tables?

So basically those with LMM's are the ones who need to be concerned primarily, correct? For them to determine if an earlier model Duramax has been programmed it would require them to do more work and/or compare data tables?
Correct. Only LMM's are effected. Rest easy :D
Theres gotta be a way around this someday Im sure. If you see how some people tune the German cars its a commin I would think.

So basically those with LMM's are the ones who need to be concerned primarily, correct? For them to determine if an earlier model Duramax has been programmed it would require them to do more work and/or compare data tables?

If the stock tune is not restored on a pre-LMM vehicle, then the CVN will not match what GM are expecting.

If the stock tune is returned to the vehicle, then the data in the tables will match what GM is expecting to see, and the CVN will also match what they are expecting.

Cheers
Cindy

Brian, what dealer did you go to? Just want to mark that on off my list.

Brian, what dealer did you go to? Just want to mark that on off my list.

Actually, the dealer was very fair. It was Rockmont Chevrolet. I have no complaint with them. They seemed to be willing to do whatever they could.

Gentlemen, get this -I have many times in the past and just recently dropped my truck off at GM dealer with a custom software tune, they did not dectect that (even after extensive electrial problems, engine codes

Gentlemen, get this -I have many times in the past and just recently dropped my truck off at GM dealer with a custom software tune, they did not dectect that (even after extensive electrial problems, engine codes and way more alterations done).

GMPP is demanding another $200 decuctible for 3 items I forgot about off the original list!

Screw them and the additional $200 deductile, - other than that , software, other alterations etc - they dont care.

.....go figure.....

Gentlemen, get this -I have many times in the past and just recently dropped my truck off at GM dealer with a custom software tune, they did not dectect that (even after extensive electrial problems, engine codes and way more alterations done).

GMPP is demanding another $200 decuctible for 3 items I forgot about off the original list!

Screw them and the additional $200 deductile, - other than that , software, other alterations etc - they dont care.

.....go figure.....

Not sure what you are trying to say here, but they (GM) do care. Lots of folks have already had their warranty's voided. I'm glad you found a dealer that doesn't care (i.e. not had a warranty repair charged back to them yet), but for the rest of us, it's a big problem.

Arent you the guy with pics of you and your car at the track and youre such a huge bastard that you have to take the driver side t-tops off so that your helmet can poke out above the roofline?

hahaha I thought I recognized your name.

Yup, that's me! :D

Hey what kind of funny racing is that your doing?

Joke, nice to see another solo car!

Gentlemen, get this -I have many times in the past and just recently dropped my truck off at GM dealer with a custom software tune, they did not dectect that (even after extensive electrial problems, engine codes and way more alterations done).

GMPP is demanding another $200 decuctible for 3 items I forgot about off the original list!

Screw them and the additional $200 deductile, - other than that , software, other alterations etc - they dont care.

.....go figure.....

Whatever you say. Most dealers freak out if they see a pyro gauge, let alone a tune.

ALWAYS remove the tune before you go to the dealer, whether you trust them or not.

yeah its a good rule of thumb to remove your stuff before going to a dealer.

Ok so I just have a quick question I have an 06 lbz and if I tune it with efi live and have a prob and then turn it back to stock before it goes to the dealer, will they know or can they see efilive?

Ok so I just have a quick question I have an 06 lbz and if I tune it with efi live and have a prob and then turn it back to stock before it goes to the dealer, will they know or can they see efilive?

I am unsure. I know they can see the last 10 tunes on my LMM, but folks here that can't see them on older units. The same GM memo covers all years Duramax.

Hey what kind of funny racing is that your doing?

Joke, nice to see another solo car!

I'm thinking of trying Casper at AutoX. That'll make a good show of Total Cone Mayhem. :D

Had mine at the dealer to replace the #2 ansd #7 injector harness.I took the edge off and when I went to pick up the truck the service manager followed me to the truck to talk.Said he noticed the EGT wires and told me when a truck comes in with evidence of a programmer they are told to take pictures and put them with the claims.Said they are cracking down hard on the dealers that let them slide.This dealer has always been cool with them since he sold it to me three years ago,said he is warning his customers before it happens to them.

See that where I think its stupid. What you cant have a damn pyro to make sure all is good to possibly PREVENT motor damage? Gimmie a break. Good luck on proving that to GM though. I think they should be installed from the factory personally.

See that where I think its stupid. What you cant have a damn pyro to make sure all is good to possibly PREVENT motor damage? Gimmie a break. Good luck on proving that to GM though. I think they should be installed from the factory personally.

Yes, that and a boost gauge.

Ok so I just have a quick question I have an 06 lbz and if I tune it with efi live and have a prob and then turn it back to stock before it goes to the dealer, will they know or can they see efilive?
Pretty sure on LBZ's and older they cannot see the last 10 programs like in the LMM's and will only see the "stock" tune if you reset it to stock. However, if they want to spend a little time digging they can find other things i.e. TQ input to Tranny, and other data points in other places. If these vary significantly from "stock" numbers, then that might raise their eyebrows.

Bottom line IMHO is if you run tunes, be prepared for GM to raise flags about it if they find out your running them, and regardless of what version DMax you have, they can find out if they want to spend the time. All depends on the type of warranty claim I guess.

They said installing gauges are fine but no adders.The only reason he ask was the wires to the EGT was there but no gauges in the truck,told him I was painting the mount.

So correct me if Im wrong. Can you add an Edge or Bully Dog to the LMM w/o anyone noticing because its inline or not?

So correct me if Im wrong. Can you add an Edge or Bully Dog to the LMM w/o anyone noticing because its inline or not?

Have you gone back an readthrough this thread? I now it's lengthy, but the info is all there. The Edge Evo is easily detected; the Juice, not so much. If they look hard enough, evidence of any tuner can be found.

Pretty sure on LBZ's and older they cannot see the last 10 programs like in the LMM's and will only see the "stock" tune if you reset it to stock. However, if they want to spend a little time digging they can find other things i.e. TQ input to Tranny, and other data points in other places. If these vary significantly from "stock" numbers, then that might raise their eyebrows.

Bottom line IMHO is if you run tunes, be prepared for GM to raise flags about it if they find out your running them, and regardless of what version DMax you have, they can find out if they want to spend the time. All depends on the type of warranty claim I guess.

from the lastest TSB on my 04.5 LLY, GM can detect the last 10 tunes all the way back to the early LLY at least. Initially i was only LBZ, but now they can detect on earlier engines, just takes more time and steps.

GM doesn’t give out a 5year/100000 mile warranty without covering their bets. They have enough historical service information to know exactly what the average cost of repair should be for the truck over the course of the warranty. They take that dollar value and add it on to the price of the truck. YOU PAID FOR THE WARRANTY REPAIRS WHEN YOU BOUGHT THE TRUCK; IT’S HIDDEN IN THE PRICE. On most trucks they break even but even if it’s above normal cost the below normal cost trucks offset the losses. We all think were so lucky to have bought a truck with such a good warranty and that GM is a good bunch of guys when the insiders know we paid for it anyways and their out nothing. So maybe in the past GM was more flexible, that’s because in reality the repairs didn’t cost them a cent because we paid for them when we bought the truck. So it was no skin off their back to put the claim through. But now when their on the brink of disappearing off the face of the earth, by denying warranty they keep the money they collected up front for warranty repairs and keep it for themselves. So in other words until they have their house cleaned up they are going to use whatever excuse they can to get out of paying warranty.

I am more then prepared to pay for repairs that are my fault. But if it’s their fault I expect them to honor their commitment. Otherwise I will vote with my feet and take my business elsewhere. GM won’t care if one guy walks away but the dealership might. Use your power as a consumer and leverage the dealer (I know he’s caught in the middle and it’s not his fault but……) threaten to never use them again, threaten to put the broke truck in front of the dealer with a sign saying not to use them, take an add out in the newspaper, etc. GM knows darn go well that most of us will yell and stomp our feet when were denied warranty but that will be the end of it. Most people will not take it any further and will just pay the repair bill. So it’s a double win for them they keep the money they collected for warranty repairs and then they make money off of you fixing your truck.

I am only suggesting this tactic if you are being screwed over by GM. If you did something to break it then you should be prepared to pay for the repairs.

You know I have an Edge Evo,had problems took all the Edge off tune to stock before going in,they ask if I had added anything,nope just had it checked by another shop and thats the blip on the computer.
They can't detect the Edge is what I hear.
nothing more was said.

You know I have an Edge Evo,had problems took all the Edge off tune to stock before going in,they ask if I had added anything,nope just had it checked by another shop and thats the blip on the computer.
They can't detect the Edge is what I hear.
nothing more was said.

Having another shop "check" your truck won't do anything. It's the last 10 ECM programs tht they can detect. And yes, they absolutely CAN detect the Evo just like any other tuner. Not sure what you're hearing or from who, but don't believe it.

Here's the deal. I have an '08 LMM. I bought a tuner. I'm not drag racing or pulling a sled. I was simply looking for a little power and economy. I got an Evo and have been very happy with it. After using it for a few months, I hear about the now infamous GM bulletin where GM is actively voiding warranty's. In a nutshell, GM is taking the position that if a drivetrain warranty claim is being made, and there is evidence of a non-GM tune in the ECM, steps should be takn to not only deny the claim, but to void the warranty. Hold On. This is more than I bargained for; this info came out after I had the Evo. I just paid $50K for a truck and maybe it won't have a warranty. WTF. Not only that, but I just shelled out some serious coin for a zero deductible GMPP extended warranty 'til 2013 that may not be worth the paper it's printed on. WTF. After some serious thought to the consequences, I called GM and spilled the beans. Begged forgiveness. I was very upfront and explained my position and advised the warranty was more important to me than the tuner. This was a calculated risk as I feared GM may trace my call and send a warranty SWAT team over to repossess my warranty. The Customer Service guy was very nice, put me on hold and went to find an answer to my simple question; What do I do now? How do I preserve my warranty?? He came back with an answer that was easy; too good to be true? Take the truck to my dealer, show them the tuner, and ask them to inspect it. If there were no codes or drivetrain damage, they would note the file and if no tunes were installed after that date, my warranty would be intact. Fair enough. My thoughts were to return to stock and just use the Evo for gauges. I made an appt and took my truck, and the GM file number to my dealer. At this point, I should point out that I have a very good relationship with my dealer and trust them, otherwise I would not have ignored all of the alarm bells going off in my head. The dealer listened to me and said they had no idea how to handle this, and who was going to pay for the inspection? I agreed to foot the bill up to an hour of labor. They kept the truck and called GM for instructions. This is where things get bad. The truck checked out fine; no damage (DUH, I baby the truck) no codes (Double DUH) and the tune was stock. However, even though there was no warranty claim being made, GM told them to take digital pics of the ECM programing history as shown on the Tech2 and e-mail them to them. This is where the dealer said Whoa. I am grateful. This sounds like GM is trying to gather hard evidence to void my warranty before any claim is made. I am just trying to do the right thing here and I feel like GM is trying to screw me. Nothing has been sent to GM, the dealer didn't charge me for their time, and now I must decide what my next step is going to be. The service manager just said wait until there is a claim; why get worried about something that may never come. I'm afraid to just wait and four years later, I have a valid tranny claim and GM won't honor it because I had a non-stock tune four years ago for two months. Thoughts?

bud that sucks. what it boils down to is all the american automakers are broke and they are looking for any way possible to get out of spending money

I am sure that if you told your dealer your truck has gauges because you tow for work and need to make a living they can't prove anything.

I am sure that if you told your dealer your truck has gauges because you tow for work and need to make a living they can't prove anything.

I guess you haven't read the entire thread. They don't have to be able to prove anything. That's the point of this thread. GM is requiring Techs to take a digital pic of the Tech2 showing the last 10 ECM programs. If any are not stock you are screwed and it's up to you to prove you did not cause the damage.

I guess you haven't read the entire thread. They don't have to be able to prove anything. That's the point of this thread. GM is requiring Techs to take a digital pic of the Tech2 showing the last 10 ECM programs. If any are not stock you are screwed and it's up to you to prove you did not cause the damage.
Hey you dont have to be so pissy with everyone who asks a question. I DID read the thread and STILL had a question. Dont be pissed off cause YOU didnt read the FORUMS and bought and loaded a tuner now your SOL. Suck it up pal. This was old news before the LMM even came out.

Blah, blah, blah. When are the mods going to restrict this topic from being new threads? It has been beaten like a rented mule in the short time that I've been a member. If you want to mod your powertrain with added HP/TQ, etc etc etc then be prepared to pay and/or fight GM everystep of the way for powertrain warranty work. It's that simple and it's not unreasonable. You changed a manufactured product from what the manufacturer states it is designed to do.

Say it again, "Pay to play"

Hey you dont have to be so pissy with everyone who asks a question. I DID read the thread and STILL had a question. Dont be pissed off cause YOU didnt read the FORUMS and bought and loaded a tuner now your SOL. Suck it up pal. This was old news before the LMM even came out.

Not a matter of being pissy. I apologize if I came off that way. I just get frustrated with the same questions being asked over and over when the answers have been gone over time and time again. I have no problem answering questions and have time and time again both in threads and PM's. And this really wasn't old new before the LMM's came out. This where it all began. For the record, my warranty has not yet been voided so I am not SOL... yet.


Blah, blah, blah. When are the mods going to restrict this topic from being new threads? It has been beaten like a rented mule in the short time that I've been a member. If you want to mod your powertrain with added HP/TQ, etc etc etc then be prepared to pay and/or fight GM everystep of the way for powertrain warranty work. It's that simple and it's not unreasonable. You changed a manufactured product from what the manufacturer states it is designed to do. Say it again, "Pay to play"

Why would mods restrict new topics? There are tons of topics that have multiple threads. Lots of folks bring a different perspective to the table. If you don't want to read about it then just skip over it. You certainly don't need to comment on it.

This might be useful for future people looking into this.... http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=7461&highlight=lmm+warranty

As Far As I Know The Dealer Can Check The Last 10 Ecm/pcm Programs Added To The Vehicle And When A Powertrain Warranty Issue Arise's The Dealer Has To Relay That Info To Gm. They Have To Literally Take A Pic Of The Tech 2 Readings With The Vin# Included,the Programs Leave A Fingerprint In The System Even If Programmed Back To Stock. I Have Been Told That It Is Only On The Lmm Models,how True That Is I Dont Know.
But As For Them Trying To Get Out Of Covering Something That Was Tore Up Due To A Power Adder,they Have Every Right To Do That And They Will.
Just Think Of It This Way,say Your A Plumber And You Get A Job Installing A New Shower,you Install The Shower,check All Connections To Make Sure No Leaks,and Then Have The Customer Check Over Install. The Customer Is Happy And They Pay And You Leave,later The Customer Decides They Dont Like The Shower Head You Installed And Have A New One Installed By Someone Else And Afterwards It Leaks. They Call You Back And Say That It Is Leaking And They Want You To Fix It Under The Original Warranty You Provided......what Are You Going To Do? Fix Someone Else's Work That They Installed Incorrect And For Free,or Tell Them That They Have No Warranty On That Part Since They Changed It Out,
Thats Just How I View It

As Far As I Know The Dealer Can Check The Last 10 Ecm/pcm Programs Added To The Vehicle And When A Powertrain Warranty Issue Arise's The Dealer Has To Relay That Info To Gm. They Have To Literally Take A Pic Of The Tech 2 Readings With The Vin# Included,the Programs Leave A Fingerprint In The System Even If Programmed Back To Stock. I Have Been Told That It Is Only On The Lmm Models,how True That Is I Dont Know.
But As For Them Trying To Get Out Of Covering Something That Was Tore Up Due To A Power Adder,they Have Every Right To Do That And They Will.
Just Think Of It This Way,say Your A Plumber And You Get A Job Installing A New Shower,you Install The Shower,check All Connections To Make Sure No Leaks,and Then Have The Customer Check Over Install. The Customer Is Happy And They Pay And You Leave,later The Customer Decides They Dont Like The Shower Head You Installed And Have A New One Installed By Someone Else And Afterwards It Leaks. They Call You Back And Say That It Is Leaking And They Want You To Fix It Under The Original Warranty You Provided......what Are You Going To Do? Fix Someone Else's Work That They Installed Incorrect And For Free,or Tell Them That They Have No Warranty On That Part Since They Changed It Out,
Thats Just How I View It

I have no problem with GM not honoring repairs on modded trucks that fail due to the mods. However, they are taking it too far with any evidence of a mod being enough to deny the claim. This means by adding a Pyro or other gauges or even using a mild tune to increase fuel economy. This is where I have a problem. BTW, you might turn the caps lock off; it makes it easier to read. ;)

Thanks!

Just got mine back from Royal Oaks here in Paducah. Replaced the rear transfer seal after I noticed she was wet with oil. Little over 38000 on the clock and claimed on powertrain. No problems with them what so ever and all I did different than normal is used the PPE to set the truck back to stock. Everything else stayed on. I will be using them again if anything else pops up on my way to the big 100k.

since the McDonalds coffee claim was brought up a couple times, I'll comment. Their is some info that did not get much publicity. McDonalds was ask many times by the Shriners burn support group to lower coffee temp over the years. Originally the woman wanted her needs/exspenses covered, they blew her off. Then it started.

My brother just got an '05:) since I won't void :mad:my '08 LMM

Just buy a second ECM that has never been flashed with an aftermarket program.THAT WONT WORK BECAUSE IF THE ENGINES HOURS DONT MATCH THE SECOND ECM THAT WILL RAISE A FLAG:)

All Duramax's record a CVN. This tells the dealer if the tune in the vehicle matches the tune they installed from the factory. The difference between the LB7, LLY and LBZ when compared to the LMM is that the first 3 only record the CVN currently in the vehicle (ie you return to stock, the stock CVN will be shown) whereas with the LMM it records the last 10 unique entries. For the LMM returning to stock still leave 9 entries that potentially don't match the factory CVN. Reflashing the same tune 10 times doesn't fix the problem either - it's only 1 unique entry.

Cheers
Cindy

Im curious about running a stock tune, I just wanna get rid of my DPF. I dont want any extra power or anything. Would there be a unique imprent recorded by the ECM?

Im curious about running a stock tune, I just wanna get rid of my DPF. I dont want any extra power or anything. Would there be a unique imprent recorded by the ECM?

If you pull the DPF you will throw codes unless you retune. If you do that, they can see it and will think the worst.

Boy am I glad my service manager is cool, he said "just don't be dumb":D

i still dont understand why everyone is argueing this...its simple as pie...you put a power adder on ur truck and it will void the warrenty. it doesnt matter if it is a 1hp tune or a 100hp tune...GM doesnt want you to add a tuner if you do they will void the warrenty. simple as that. doesnt matter if you never tear anything up, you STILL ADDED THE TUNER!!!! not to be rude to anyone but i just dont understand why people cant get this...if you dont like what GM is doing then 1.dont buy a duramax or 2.dont buy a tuner. putting a tuner on is a like a crime in GM's eyes just like speeding is a crime. what happens when u get caught speeding? you get a ticket. you put a tuner on ur truck and take it in for warrenty work and GM finds out about it, what happens? warrenty is GONE. life isnt fare. you could always go buy GM and have all the warrenty work you want lol

No, you can't just put the stock program in 10 times and the memo from GM that i saw covers all Duramax years. You can use another ECM for tuning and keep your original one stock, but they can still read the elevated torque inputs to the tranny. They've pretty well covered themselves this time.
It only covers 05 and up - 04 and earlier is doesn't have the ability to detect tuners from reading the ECM.

On the torque readings from the tranny, I would like to know exactly how that is done - haven't seen that as something that can be done with a tech 2 on an 04 - do you have specifics or is this hearsay / speculation?

I can not confirm this; however, I was told that the one of the computers shows this torque input. Supposedly there is a torque number, assumed to be above factory numbers, that sends the 1000 into a safe mode or something and that is recorded like a DTC for the Duramax.

BTW, I was listed by the dealer where I bought my '05 due to aftermarket parts on a two week old truck. Fun to be had by all there. Turned out he was covering his own backside due to some crazy contract with OTC Tools. No tuner present or detected, just an intake and exhaust.

You just have to know somebody that works for the dealer.:D

Yup, that's me! :D


Now that's funny......

Seems to be LOTS of speculation about what can and can't be seen by dealer service depts, tech II's, etc. Trust me, they can and will find out if you have/had a tuner installed if there is a significant warranty claim on any of the powertrain. It costs GM far less money to have some technician spend several hours (heck even a full day), investigating every bit of info in the trucks computer and other systems to determine if you had been running higher HP/TQ, fuel delivery, etc.

I agree with previous posts, anyone that adds performance mods to powertrain should be willing to accept the fact that GM can and likely will void warranty. Pay to play and stop whining.

Seems to be LOTS of speculation about what can and can't be seen by dealer service depts, tech II's, etc. Trust me, they can and will find out if you have/had a tuner installed if there is a significant warranty claim on any of the powertrain. It costs GM far less money to have some technician spend several hours (heck even a full day), investigating every bit of info in the trucks computer and other systems to determine if you had been running higher HP/TQ, fuel delivery, etc.

I agree with previous posts, anyone that adds performance mods to powertrain should be willing to accept the fact that GM can and likely will void warranty. Pay to play and stop whining.

You, and others, are missing the point. I agree if you do something like add HP and then break something that it's your problem and your dime. However, my problem is that GM has simply seen an added EGT or boost gauge (something they should have added from the factory) and then denied claims based on that alone. It is then up to the owned to fight and prove there were no mods. I thought this was America where you are Innocent until proven guilty; not vice-versa.

Why couldnt you just tell them to produce the check sums and algorithms in the computers? Then when they all matched up it end of story.

You, and others, are missing the point. I agree if you do something like add HP and then break something that it's your problem and your dime. However, my problem is that GM has simply seen an added EGT or boost gauge (something they should have added from the factory) and then denied claims based on that alone. It is then up to the owned to fight and prove there were no mods. I thought this was America where you are Innocent until proven guilty; not vice-versa.
EGT and Boost gauges, though done by countless members here, are still modifications to a manufactured product. Is it necessarily right what they are doing, no but that is the way it is and the way the GM warranty that you agreed to when you bought their product is written. Is it fair? Well my friend, life is not fair. That is one of the greatest lessons I learned from my old man.

If you are telling me that your dealer service dept is flat out refusing to do any warranty work on the engine because the see EGT and Boost gage additions, then find a different dealer. Many will first see what the problem is and if it is related to your gages. I agree that is a bit different than a tuner, but to the eyes of GM still is a mod to the engine. Now if they find shavings from the pyrometer tap that f'd up the turbo or other engine components, your f'd. If your tranny is slipping and they won't even look at it as a warranty claim cause you have a pyro and boost gage (completely un related to tranny) then try somewhere else.

I am not doing ANYTHING to my engine and associated components until the 5yr/100k mile DMax warranty is up. It is not worth it to me. To others, they want to play and they are willing to pay. And then there are the whiners

Finally, it looks like you run an Edge tuner, have modified the exhaust, and modified the factory suspension. You have given GM more than enough ammo beyond simple gage additions to say performance mods have been made. Good luck

Make friend with the local GM tech/rep. There are ways around everything. :)

The picture is probably just to prove the number of calibrations put in the ecm so they know that you are not adding the programmer back in as soon as you leave the dealership.

The CVN's read
234567
345678
000000
Etc etc etc

later on when there is a warranty claim, the find
234567
345678
567890
000000 etc etc then they know something changed and they can prove okay, joe schmo put another tuner on his truck after we took the photo. understand. I am not sure they are trying to void your warranty just yet, I think they are protecting themselves.



BTW who says that the GM tech has to take a picture of the tech 2 on your truck?

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Well with all that is said here, according to some, play, you pay, if you have lets say nerf bars, that should void the warranty, a long with, bug shields, any tires that does not come on stock, mud flaps, gauges, after market wind shield wipers, filters, lights, or anything else you change or added from stock.( Anything for GM to point to and say you modified the vehicle). I have 56k$ + in my truck, I love to do the DPF delete with Programer thing, but it is just not going to happen until the warranty is out. The whole reason we are even talking about this is because of the people befor that junked out and abused their trucks and tryed to make GM pay for it. That is why NOW, GM has said NO to all mods. It is a shame it has came to this, and yes, if you have the time, and money, a person could probable take GM to court and have warranty work covered as long as the after market part did not cause the damage. But that is one LONG , LONG road to travel.
rcpd34 , I would keep the mods you already have, the damage to the warranty is done. If you have a problem later, hopfully warranty will cover it, but if it is drivetrain, I have my doults. I personly believe, a person should be able to mod thier truck any way they want, and if the mod does not cause the damage, it should be covered by warranty. But like many here, it does not matter what I think.

If the stock tune is not restored on a pre-LMM vehicle, then the CVN will not match what GM are expecting.

If the stock tune is returned to the vehicle, then the data in the tables will match what GM is expecting to see, and the CVN will also match what they are expecting.

Cheers
Cindy
GM can tell if you had a performance programmer installed.
I restored the stock tune to my 06 LLY and removed all indications of modifications. The dealer was able to pull numbers from my ECM and TCM that were not the same as the factory numbers. My warranty has been blocked.
My issue is buying a used truck from someone who may have had a program on it at one time. If you do not know this and some day down the road bring the truck in for warranty, you will be denied warranty and blocked on the database.

MM Warranty Act is great in theory. As you state, most of us regular folk don't have the time and/or money to take such a claim to court against GM, which is what it would take. Even then, no guarantees. IMHO, GM has plenty of professional designers and mechanical engineers that could easily show that increasing HP/TQ increases stresses on drivetrain components. All they'd have to do would be to show that within a certain range of increases, that stock parts "can" fail. There would not have to be a definitive number, as even stock parts are subject to manufacturing tolerances and could fail at a "range of values". IMO, that would be all they would have to do and I bet that research/info already exists.

I've said this in other posts here and I stndd by it. If you want to tune/add HP/TQ that is your right, but don't cry on this forum about GM not honoring a warranty that you violated the terms of. READ your warranty terms, adding a tune is violating them. As for MMW Act, it isn't worth the paper it's written on. If you add tune and your radio or seat heaters go out, GM shouldn't void your warranty on those items and that is the type scenario where MM Act should fall into play and possibly have some teeth IMHO. Although I don't hear to many complaints about GM doing this sort of BS. It is always like " I added this tune and now my tranny slips, or my TC is screwed up or I snapped a tie rod and GM won't cover it......." All GM would have to do is put a designer/engineer on the stand that shows proof that adding HP/TQ adds stress to components and shortens their life and reduces their performance. That is of course if you have the time/money to take GM to court. Any reasonable jury will laugh you out of the court. They don't have to prove that on Joe Smith's truck his certain tune cause this specific failure at this specific force.

If you want to play, be prepared to pay and don't cry about it when the consequences come around.

The problem is that the MM warranty Act is the only viable paper in this equation. A signed warranty has less weight to it, and must abide by the governing of the MMWA. They can try to say whatever they want, but in the end it is their responsibility to prove that the tuner CAUSED the failure. Again, it's been said time and again that most don't have the money to fight GM in court, but that is your right, and if you choose to do so and they can't prove it, they're responsible. And why are we arguing about these people who make so much money? Why is it their responsibility to give it to us? Are we on welfare? I'm broke as can be. I can barely afford to keep my truck, but that's my fault for not finishing college. They went there and finished, and many have earned their position, so why should they support us? Some people just piss me off, and it's not the rich ones that want to keep the money they earned, it's the ones who complain that they have more and should give it to us. Move to a communist country if you think money should be distributed like that. Then you don't need to worry about GM voiding your warranty, as you'd be lucky to afford a Yugo. I wish this would happen to someone with the resources to fight GM, and then maybe their attitudes would change and they'd look into it instead of immediately blaming the tune. Sorry to all who tried to stay out of the rich man/poor man battles, but c'mon, really?

Good point I hope you keep your warranty because you did want to make it right and bring it back and make it stock. You should be ok so I hope for you. But for those who buy and no about the GM warranty and put on BIG programmers and everything else then cry the blues because something happened and GM will not warranty it. Well I hope they don't warranty these kinds of trucks it only makes our prices go up on our next truck. Again there are some who Run big power and accept GM's warranty and no they will be paying themselves. But you tried to make it back stock and there was no damage for a piece of mind I would call GM and ask them again and tell them what happened maybe it would be good to get the name of the person you talk with the date and time and record the conversation.

I would think that with the amount of technology available, and the amount of money at stake in the aftermarket, a real solution will eventually present itself.
Until then, is the performance of your truck so poor that you would not own it without a tuner?

Jeff-

rcpd34 your 100% right and straight to the point good info thanks for sharing

Their is a team of people who combined make millions of dollars a year to design a vehicle for certain performance ,comfort , style and Reliability. Years of testing, programing etc.etc. You as a consumer pay for that, Maybe $35,000 - $60,000 for a truck.Now you are at a point "not enough power" so you add a programmer $300-$1000.Who designed it ,probably someone good with computers and some knowledge of cars . They take one maybe two vehicles test it, tweak it and on on the market within weeks. Does it say "GM" approved.No.In the first few pages of Modules or programmers " Disclaimer"it states about the federal magnusson-moss warranty act and further reading they strongly recommend to remove all after market product before warranty work They also say you have a strong legal protection.Its costly and long story short the dealers will probably win.I think all manufactures of chips, programmers or modules will tell you this in their manuals/directions and or websites so saying "I didn't know it would void my warranty" WTF I'm not saying they are junk but you have to know what you are in for.