I believe the new clean diesel regulations hit in 2010 and I don't think the current Duramax will meet the EPA guidelines.

With GM in dire financial straits and pickup volume low, I would bet that they dump Diesels altogether instead of spending millions and millions (that they don't have) in making the Duramax meet the EPA.

Just my opinion.

I believe the new clean diesel regulations hit in 2010 and I don't think the current Duramax will meet the EPA guidelines.

With GM in dire financial straits and pickup volume low, I would bet that they dump Diesels altogether instead of spending millions and millions (that they don't have) in making the Duramax meet the EPA.

Just my opinion.

I was at the dealer yesterday getn the oil and fuel filter changed and the truck salesman and I got to talkn about gm possibly dropn the diesel trucks and he said it would be a shame for that to happen because gm finally got a good diesel and 10 years later they dump it. He also went on to say if he had had the duramax 30 years ago he would be retired:D

they won't dump it yet, they will find a way to make things work.

GM may delay the 4.5 a year or so, but will probably keep the 6.6 Duramax all along.

GM may delay the 4.5 a year or so, but will probably keep the 6.6 Duramax all along.

They'll lose to much money in R and D by just walking away.

Plus they know, to make money they have to make things the public wants to BUY. I have NOTHING against a gasoline motor but if they wouldnt have offered a diesel for my uses (towing) I would be driving something I didn't like quite as much with a cummins.

I was at the dealer yesterday getn the oil and fuel filter changed and the truck salesman and I got to talkn about gm possibly dropn the diesel trucks and he said it would be a shame for that to happen because gm finally got a good diesel and 10 years later they dump it. He also went on to say if he had had the duramax 30 years ago he would be retired:D


Hey there....them there's fighten words.:p:

Hey there....them there's fighten words.:p:

The truth hurts, and yes i owned one :mad: :)

Hey there....them there's fighten words.

Man I'm with ya...I'm in a new F-250 at work and it sucks.....I want my 95 back!

GM wont dump diesels first because people wont quit buying them first. Theyll stop buying useless things like the HHR. (sorry NEVER liked that car) Plus GM wont give up america first. theyd cut more foreign markets with less prophet. (yes were not the worst) The worst i see is they may make funding cuts in developing any new dmax but thats not so bad as long as they stay.

Man I'm with ya...I'm in a new F-250 at work and it sucks.....I want my 95 back!

Haha im the same way! Ours was a 97 6.5 Chevy, a 06 F350 6.0 took its place a year or so ago. The Ford has spent more time at Vehicle Maintenance than any other truck, its our second newest one. We sometimes actually get the old 97 Chevy 6.5 back as a loner, they dont wana DRMO it.

I thought GM signed a ***millions dollar contract with duramax till 2012 to build a new motor to meet the 2010 standards

:duh::idiot::cookoo:I thought GM signed a ***millions dollar contract with duramax till 2012 to build a new motor to meet the 2010 standards

The 2010 replacement for the 6.6L was already on the road in mule vehicles last summer. I doubt GM kills it since the #1 priority behind the Duramax originally was to take over the HD pickup market. Why stop now that Ford has shot itself in the foot with the Powerstroke? The Dodge boys are mostly buying the Cummins engine and just accepting whatever wrapper it comes packed in. The Ram isn't much to write home about without that big C on the fender.

gm was prepared for the 2010 emissions standards a few years ago.... nothing to worry about.

:think: GM drop duramax alltogether? thats the stupidest thing ive heard in a while...

The 2010 replacement for the 6.6L was already on the road in mule vehicles last summer. I doubt GM kills it since the #1 priority behind the Duramax originally was to take over the HD pickup market. Why stop now that Ford has shot itself in the foot with the Powerstroke? The Dodge boys are mostly buying the Cummins engine and just accepting whatever wrapper it comes packed in. The Ram isn't much to write home about without that big C on the fender.LOL ask a HEMI guy and he things he can pull the universe and is faster than the speed of light!:rolleyes: They must brain wash them on the show room floor. lol

With GM being out of cash before 3-31-09 (again) and the people financing them (Obama and his Environmental buddies) why would the Federal oversight committee (Liberal Environmentalists who will be running GM) allow GM to build HD pickups when they want electric and hybrid cars ? Pickups are classed with SUV's and are evil in the Liberal mindset.

Who says it costs so much to meet those requirements? What proof does anybody has that it cost so much? Look at the Cummins, it wasn't made over that much and they pass '10 emmisions. Maybe GM just has to add the UREA to it. Also you forget that GM can actually be taking over Marketshart from both Dodge and Ford and likely have consistently done that. As I understand it you can't put the 6.4L Ford in a Van because it is too big so there is no diesel Ford Van and no diesel anything that was a converted VAN body. RV's etc! So that isn't that many units but it is continued marketshare gain.

With GM being out of cash before 3-31-09 (again) and the people financing them (Obama and his Environmental buddies) why would the Federal oversight committee (Liberal Environmentalists who will be running GM) allow GM to build HD pickups when they want electric and hybrid cars ? Pickups are classed with SUV's and are evil in the Liberal mindset.

I think GM will continue to build HD's w/D-Maxs(off some type). I look at it like this: shit always needs pullin, shit always needs haulin. Plus the military market, most our trucks in out SQ are fullsize 3/4 ton or up, thats GSA's and GOV's. Then you have the tactical GOV's ie green painted Chevys(Chevy trucks n SUVs with CARC paint, 24v slave outputs ect.), Looks at GM Government sales. I havent seen any Dodges or Fords like this. Oh and the military loves diesels/JP-8.

I think GM will continue to build HD's w/D-Maxs(off some type). I look at it like this: shit always needs pullin, shit always needs haulin. Plus the military market, most our trucks in out SQ are fullsize 3/4 ton or up, thats GSA's and GOV's. Then you have the tactical GOV's ie green painted Chevys(Chevy trucks n SUVs with CARC paint, 24v slave outputs ect.), Looks at GM Government sales. I havent seen any Dodges or Fords like this. Oh and the military loves diesels/JP-8.You may not see green ones, but I see plenty of blue Fords running around Wright-Patterson AFB. The government buys from the low bidder, not the best qualified supplier.;)

GM will most likely have a diesel by 2010, reason being is that they will profit from Ford not having a diesel that year. The Ford/Navistar contract ends January 2010, and Fords new in house diesel isnt expected to hit the streets until 2011. Also as most said, GM is pretty much ready for the new emissions.

You may not see green ones, but I see plenty of blue Fords running around Wright-Patterson AFB. The government buys from the low bidder, not the best qualified supplier.;)

True on the lowest bidder thing. But yea Im not saying Chevy is the only one making "Tactical" models, but thats all Ive seen here and the dessert. Are the blue ones that you've seen "Tactical" like 24v system, gun mount(some), NATO slave plugs etc.(Cant think off wut else to list) Cuz we have had all brands of GOV's(government own vehicles or "Blue Fleet") and GSA's which I dont know wut it stands for right now, but theyre the leased ones. Chevy's have had the least problems.

With GM being out of cash before 3-31-09 (again) and the people financing them (Obama and his Environmental buddies) why would the Federal oversight committee (Liberal Environmentalists who will be running GM) allow GM to build HD pickups when they want electric and hybrid cars ? Pickups are classed with SUV's and are evil in the Liberal mindset.

i hate liberals as much as anybody else but i think youre getting a little extreme here... at least i hope you are.

Diesels will be on the lots but there will be a limit on production and you will be paying sticker price$$ to get one. Just my opinion.

Don't know the features or option content on the blue trucks Accord Boy. As a civilian they won't let me behind the wire to see what my tax dollars are buying. All I can tell you is they are crew cab long bed trucks, most likely F-350 SRW with 4x4.

they wouldn't drop them simply because they wouldn't sell any HD's runnin gas......WAY to thirsty. Who would buy such a gas pig ? No diesel = no sale

I wouldn't blame them if they did drop the dmax, and the hoops they have to jump through with all the EPA crap. Its getting bad for all the car manufactures having the put all the the extra crap on these new vehicles to meet EPA regs. How are new vehicles supposed to get decent mileage with all the epa stuff on them??

How are new vehicles supposed to get decent mileage with all the epa stuff on them??

Regarding our pickups/suvs for starters they could ending the silly hp/tq wars and rid the brick-like aerodynamic hummer influence.

GM will most likely have a diesel by 2010, reason being is that they will profit from Ford not having a diesel that year. The Ford/Navistar contract ends January 2010, and Fords new in house diesel isnt expected to hit the streets until 2011. Also as most said, GM is pretty much ready for the new emissions.


Wait until Aug and you will see.

Mexico: Job 1 for Ford's Scorpion engines now 12 months away
By John Mortimer
12 August, 2008
Source: Automotive World
The start of production for Ford's Scorpion diesel engine programmes at the Chihuahua Engine Plant is now just 12 months away.
Job 1, or the start of production (SOP) for Ford's (http://www.automotiveworld.com/VMSI/about.asp?profileid=9) Scorpion diesel engine programmes at the Chihuahua Engine Plant (CEP), Mexico, is now just 12 months away, having been scheduled for July 2009.
The engines, dubbed in the industry the 4467 programmes, cover the 4.4-litre V8 and the 6.7-litre V8 diesel engines, which will feature in Ford's best-selling F-Series pick-up trucks later next year.
Ford's manufacturing managers have been beset by delays from many equipment vendors, some lasting three months or more, but now the end is in sight as more and more machines are shipped to the Mexican plant for installation and sign-off.
Both new vee diesel engines will use compacted graphite iron (CGI) cylinder blocks. However, these could be the last brand new large diesel engines the company develops for some years. In the face of falling 4x4 vehicle sales, Ford is increasingly shifting emphasis to boost output of smaller gasoline and diesel engines.
Like a giant oil tanker changing course, Ford is pulling out all the stops to prepare for production of Sigma, Puma and Fox engines in Brazil, South Africa and Romania respectively. Capacity at Ford's Bridgend plant in South Wales, UK is being extended also. All of these are providing a huge workload for Ford's process engineers.
India and Turkey are also the focus of Ford's attention, but developing regions bring their own challenges in the form of slow ramp-up, large support crews and higher set-up costs.
Delays at Chihuahua have highlighted Ford's increasing reliance on MAG Industrial Automation Systems, the company's principal preferred machine tool supplier. In May 2007, MAG claimed to have received four major volume production orders for machining lines to process compacted graphite iron (CGI) vee diesel facilities in North America. Inevitably, these orders, which included Ford's orders, have placed a heavy strain on the company's resources and MAG's ability to service all of Ford's needs at a time when work for other customers is being processed. Also, MAG's orders have come at a time when the company is coping with the integration of its own facilities in Europe following mergers and acquisitions.

4.5l is very innovative diesel and has got to come out for GM to recoup cost of design and development or sell the rights to the patents. Which one do you think GM will do? I think the kicker will be if the 6.6L is gonna be a sized up 4.5L in the near future?

There's another wild card that just got thrown into the mess, the new Pres just lifted the ban preventing individual states from setting their own emissions standards beyond federal requirements! More BS for the auto makers to contend with.

Here's the details http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gITgan4dX96UUzlSldFuJNEqBCfAD95V4C380

Although, diesels are a little better that gasoline engines in terms of CO2 emissions. That's one of the reasons they have remained more popular in Europe (where they were traditionally popular because diesel fuel had much lower taxation), because EU regs. were more strict earlier on CO2 than on traditional pollutants like CO and NOx.

Wait until Aug and you will see.

Mexico: Job 1 for Ford's Scorpion engines now 12 months away
By John Mortimer
12 August, 2008
Source: Automotive World
The start of production for Ford's Scorpion diesel engine programmes at the Chihuahua Engine Plant is now just 12 months away.
Job 1, or the start of production (SOP) for Ford's (http://www.automotiveworld.com/VMSI/about.asp?profileid=9) Scorpion diesel engine programmes at the Chihuahua Engine Plant (CEP), Mexico, is now just 12 months away, having been scheduled for July 2009.
The engines, dubbed in the industry the 4467 programmes, cover the 4.4-litre V8 and the 6.7-litre V8 diesel engines, which will feature in Ford's best-selling F-Series pick-up trucks later next year.
Ford's manufacturing managers have been beset by delays from many equipment vendors, some lasting three months or more, but now the end is in sight as more and more machines are shipped to the Mexican plant for installation and sign-off.
Both new vee diesel engines will use compacted graphite iron (CGI) cylinder blocks. However, these could be the last brand new large diesel engines the company develops for some years. In the face of falling 4x4 vehicle sales, Ford is increasingly shifting emphasis to boost output of smaller gasoline and diesel engines.
Like a giant oil tanker changing course, Ford is pulling out all the stops to prepare for production of Sigma, Puma and Fox engines in Brazil, South Africa and Romania respectively. Capacity at Ford's Bridgend plant in South Wales, UK is being extended also. All of these are providing a huge workload for Ford's process engineers.
India and Turkey are also the focus of Ford's attention, but developing regions bring their own challenges in the form of slow ramp-up, large support crews and higher set-up costs.
Delays at Chihuahua have highlighted Ford's increasing reliance on MAG Industrial Automation Systems, the company's principal preferred machine tool supplier. In May 2007, MAG claimed to have received four major volume production orders for machining lines to process compacted graphite iron (CGI) vee diesel facilities in North America. Inevitably, these orders, which included Ford's orders, have placed a heavy strain on the company's resources and MAG's ability to service all of Ford's needs at a time when work for other customers is being processed. Also, MAG's orders have come at a time when the company is coping with the integration of its own facilities in Europe following mergers and acquisitions.


I hope GM keeps making the Duramax. It would be nice if one of the big 3 is really an American vehicle. Dodge Rams assembled in Mexico, Ford building their engines everywhere BUT the USA...:shake:

hahahaha GM drop the duramax all together? Yeah right. I dont know where people come up with this stuff. :rolleyes:

ben

Of course, that is the conventional wisdom, but the next decade will be anything but a conventional economy. We're only starting to see little glimpses of that here and there, in headlines like this:

Adjusted for population, January’s new car demand was the lowest ever recorded. http://www.leftlanenews.com/adjusted-for-population-januarys-sales-figure-are-worst-on-record.html#more-14558

You'll probably see a lot more "worst ever" headlines for at least the next several years.

If GM goes into Chapter 11, anything is possible.

It also depends a lot on the average cost difference of diesel vs. gasoline over that time period, too.

And for at least the next four years, the greenies are firmly in charge of EPA rulemaking, changes to which can have repercussions that affect things for years to come. For example, the 2004, 2007 & 2010 EPA regs. pertaining to diesel motor vehicles were a parting gift from the Clinton administration that were implemented without any involvement by congress.

gm will not drop them the 4.5 will go in the half-tons and the base models of the 3/4- 1 tons. the 4.5 could be cheaper to build and operate? then the 6.6 or bigger will go in the upgraded 3/4 and 1 tons. thats what they should do.

GM wont dump diesels first because people wont quit buying them first. Theyll stop buying useless things like the HHR. (sorry NEVER liked that car) Plus GM wont give up america first. theyd cut more foreign markets with less prophet. (yes were not the worst) The worst i see is they may make funding cuts in developing any new dmax but thats not so bad as long as they stay.

Yeah... I have first hand experience with the HHR... there's one in my garage. :eek::(:mad: Wish I'd have never bought it. It's my wife's car (thank God)... but that thing only does 2-3 mpg better than my LLY. Freakin' amazing. -:t

On the other hand, it's small inside, you can't hold 4 people in the car comfortably unless you're under 5' 6", and I've driven go-karts that have better acceleration.

oh yeah sure. I'm just lining up to buy me a Ford built diesel engine from Chihuahua Mexico. God help us!

Here's the details http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gITgan4dX96UUzlSldFuJNEqBCfAD95V4C380

yep, the liberals want you all driving Prius's not pickup trucks. Now that GM and Ford took the bailout money the Libs will tell them what to make.

Interesting, the 2010 emissions standards has caused Cat to stop selling US over the road engine and Detroit Diesel has pulled out of the Emergency Vehicle Business.

All the new emission stuff is raising havoc with Fire & EMS apparatus big time! They idle too much.

d

Yep; Liberals want us driving prius' and have absolutely no concern over American economics. Maybe this is why the obama regime has been absent in the economic sector while they're all about figuring out "solutions" in the environmental sector.

Keep it up obama! At least when we're all in financial ruin, we'll be driving new electric cars that aren't made in America!

dont know if anyone posted this but gm has already developed the '10 engine, the LML and has the plant ready to crank them out. I don't think they'll dump it one year after they make them.

One dumb guy in washington DC said it would be unamerican to not want to pay taxes . I think it unamerican to buy foreign cars.
chevman

If GM dumps the 4.5L it will be because the go broke. I think whats going to be hard to find by the end of 2009 is a 6.6L duramax. I see the 6.6L becoming an order only item. My 2 cent opinion.

I would prolly buy a gas if I was buying today, even though I enjoy driving a duramax. Less to worry about no DPF, I hate that they may can them but I think its prolly what they'll do.

I believe the new clean diesel regulations hit in 2010 and I don't think the current Duramax will meet the EPA guidelines.

With GM in dire financial straits and pickup volume low, I would bet that they dump Diesels altogether instead of spending millions and millions (that they don't have) in making the Duramax meet the EPA.

Just my opinion.

No way Jose..

If GM dumps the 4.5L it will be because the go broke. I think whats going to be hard to find by the end of 2009 is a 6.6L duramax. I see the 6.6L becoming an order only item. My 2 cent opinion.

Well they dumped the 4.5.......I just can't see them getting rid of the 6.6, there has to be $$ to be made still

I hope GM keeps making the Duramax. It would be nice if one of the big 3 is really an American vehicle. Dodge Rams assembled in Mexico, Ford building their engines everywhere BUT the USA...:shake:
__________________
The problem here is being made in Mexico the auto indusrty wonders why no one has any money to buy anything they r their own worse enemy.I know the US and Canadian government have given the auto makers a pile of money i wonder if they have asked Mexico for any, and told them if they dont we r closing they plant. They keep building the stuff in Mexico and its only going to get worse.

I believe the new clean diesel regulations hit in 2010 and I don't think the current Duramax will meet the EPA guidelines.

With GM in dire financial straits and pickup volume low, I would bet that they dump Diesels altogether instead of spending millions and millions (that they don't have) in making the Duramax meet the EPA.

Just my opinion.

That is the most uneducated opinion, that I've seen yet. :rolleyes:

$69 million, to be more exact...
http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/news/gm/duramax/2010diesel.html

That is the most uneducated opinion, that I've seen yet. :rolleyes:

How do you figure? When the rubber meets the road, its all about money. Gains and losses. If GM doesn't think it will at least make its money back in upgrading the dmax for epa10, then they won't. If I were to tell you 5 years ago that Caterpillar would kill off their On Highway engine division due to epa10 emissions, how many people would have believed me?

$69 million, to be more exact...
http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/news/gm/duramax/2010diesel.html

That article is over a year old and not very accurate anymore. According to GM, every program they have is under review and the partnership with isuzu is dissolved. About the only thing that I'm sure of is that so long as GM survives long enough, they will put a rush on the Volt.

Well, at least I am fortunate enough to have a d-max. The Army loves its Silverado's. There are a ton of them here. Most of the contracting agencies use them, like DPW and EMS. And a few are D-maxes too! Government sales will keep GM going, to an extent. Whens the last time you saw POTUS roll out in an Explorer or an Excursion? Its all about the black "Burban or Tahoe! Plus, theres still "Transformers 2"..thats a 2 1/2 hour long GM commercial. No one is going to fight Decepticons with Fords or Chrysler products -:t ..the world would end! :rockit:

i cant see then quit making diesel when they sell so many of them, and the duramax is a high priced vechile they should be making something on making them.

That article is over a year old and not very accurate anymore. According to GM, every program they have is under review and the partnership with isuzu is dissolved. About the only thing that I'm sure of is that so long as GM survives long enough, they will put a rush on the Volt.

Yes, over a year old. In order to disprove it, you need to show that in that lengthy intervening time, they didn't make that investment, and you should also be looking for an announcement here: http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/index.html that in 2010, the 6.6L Duramax will be as dead (or as "indefinitely postponed") as the 4.5L, meaning that GM will no longer sell any pickup trucks with diesel engines.

Who knows? Maybe that will happen eventually, especially if the initial cost is so high that in the face of an ongoing economic decline, too many prospective buyers start balking at that cost. But my guess is that sometime soon after Jan. 1, 2010, you're going to see emissions-compliant 6.6L Duramaxes for sale in HD pickups.

In a way, this actually make a lot more sense than the 4.5L did, given that it looks like the 4.5L was only going to be about $600 (MSRP) cheaper than the 6.6L, and the under-8500lbs. segment of the pickup truck market has been hit the worst, mainly because far too many of those buyers didn't really even need pickup trucks.

I believe the new clean diesel regulations hit in 2010 and I don't think the current Duramax will meet the EPA guidelines.

With GM in dire financial straits and pickup volume low, I would bet that they dump Diesels altogether instead of spending millions and millions (that they don't have) in making the Duramax meet the EPA.

Just my opinion.

Since you'd bet......raise as much money as you can, sell your house even, and start buying Duramaxes and engines and parts. Hoard them. When GM quits production you'll be in fat city. Somebody wants one of those trucks they can't get anymore, they'll have to buy it from you. 'Course if you're wrong.......

i guess the question is will they cut the lines that are low volume and high profit or will they cut the lines that are high volume and low profit? Of course obvious is that they will run hundreds of scenarios and do a mixture of these two. (At least you would think they would, but they seem pretty stupid sometimes:think:)

3/16/09:

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/03/spied-2011-chevrolet-silverado-3500.html

I don't see how they can get rid of either. From what I've read, the 4.5 should get around 30-35 mpg HWY. That would make it The only fuel efficient, heavy hauling vehicle on the road. Yea, ford's coming out with their own version, but we all know it will break every 5 minutes for the first few years. Just like the 6.0 did. And even once they do get this fixed with it, it will still be garbage, just like the 6.0 is. I don't see this happening.

I don't see how they can get rid of either. From what I've read, the 4.5 should get around 30-35 mpg HWY. That would make it The only fuel efficient, heavy hauling vehicle on the road. Yea, ford's coming out with their own version, but we all know it will break every 5 minutes for the first few years. Just like the 6.0 did. And even once they do get this fixed with it, it will still be garbage, just like the 6.0 is. I don't see this happening.


Don't see how? Obama just fired the guy that was bringing GM back into the black by selling large trucks, SUV's and diesel power. Now that he is gone and it's no longer "General" but is now "Government" Motors, all you will see are crappy little dink mobile death traps that not even the libs that want them will buy.

So long GM, it was nice knowing you!:(

jb

i read today that GM is cutting out HUMMER. they will either sell the brand or stop making it all together.

Not too far off :D

Just an FYI, GM is making an updated Silverado/ Sierra heavy duty for 2010 with an updated DURAMAX 6600 V8. GM has already invested the money into the market, in fact, the diesel market is very well, there will always be a market for light truck diesels. But the DURAMAX 4500 has been reported to be on hold.

I find that extremely doubtful as the 6.6 is too heavy for the half ton chassis or suspension. The half ton driveline also would not handle the hp/tq of the 6.6. Do you have anything to support this statement other than something a friend of a friend of a cousin said?


Where does he say it is a 1/2 ton??

Now that Obama runs GM they will no longer be making the truck/suv segment of their production their main focus.....the end is near, some other auto maker would be wise to buy up the Duramax contract.

Where does he say it is a 1/2 ton??

Man, My eyes must have been seriously crossed up. Sorry. Post Deleted.

I was at the dealer yesterday getn the oil and fuel filter changed and the truck salesman and I got to talkn about gm possibly dropn the diesel trucks and he said it would be a shame for that to happen because gm finally got a good diesel and 10 years later they dump it. He also went on to say if he had had the duramax 30 years ago he would be retired:D

They HAD good diesel engines with the 6.2 and the year 92-93 of the 6.5TD. Didn't have many problems. You could order a 6.2 with a Banks Turbo kit from the factory and they made pretty good power (for the time period). It was when they came out with the electronic 6.5 that things started going in the wrong direction. The 5.7 diesel didn't give the public a good eye on diesels either.

dont know if anyone posted this but gm has already developed the '10 engine, the LML and has the plant ready to crank them out. I don't think they'll dump it one year after they make them.

It is suppost to be out at the end of '10 as an '11 model.

problem with that picture is looks like pontiac and gmc will be gone if obama and his harvard buddies(fritzy) have their way. but saw last night that guy that is supposed to run restructuring is in trouble for sec insider manipulation of retirement funds. gm board needs to bring back rick wagner, fritz wants to sell off valuable assets to avoid bankruptcy, how does that work. whats he going to do put whipped cream ontop of uaw workers just before the sacraficial fire.

problem with that picture is looks like pontiac and gmc will be gone if obama and his harvard buddies(fritzy) have their way. but saw last night that guy that is supposed to run restructuring is in trouble for sec insider manipulation of retirement funds. gm board needs to bring back rick wagner, fritz wants to sell off valuable assets to avoid bankruptcy, how does that work. whats he going to do put whipped cream ontop of uaw workers just before the sacraficial fire.

I hate to say it, but bankruptcy, at this point, may be the best thing for GM.

I hate to say it, but bankruptcy, at this point, may be the best thing for GM.

Amen. Cut the fat, pool the good brands/assets into a new "GM", and spin off all the debt into whatever may come. I just hate loosing Pontiac, they def need to keep it going, if only with the G8 and Solstice untill the brand can be regrown.

Maybe if they filed ch. 11, cut the union fat, opened up plants in the south like the foreign builders, and told nobama to stop meddling with their biznaz they could recover, but no, that wont happen. It makes entirely too much sense to do those things.

obama + GM =

file:///D:/DOCUME%7E1/RYALLM%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpgfile:///D:/DOCUME%7E1/RYALLM%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.jpghttp://darrellloper.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/yugo.jpg

have wondered why gm has not consolidated to one line for a while.. hate to say no gmc or chevy trucks, but save some money with one line for tahoe's and envoy's th whole multi tag lineup.. which every sells better keep that body style. you don't want to compete with yourself at a time like this.

Maybe if they filed ch. 11, cut the union fat, opened up plants in the south like the foreign builders, and told nobama to stop meddling with their biznaz they could recover, but no, that wont happen. It makes entirely too much sense to do those things.

Ditto!

The company I work for is still moving forward with the engine mouting system for the 2010 6.6L? Duramax. I question 6.6L because they're reluctant to inform us of the new displacement. The 4.5L engine mounts that we have/had in production is a different story... Things are kinda up in the air regarding the 4.5L mounting system.

think with cafe standards they are going to have to use 4.5, just need to cover more lines. 6.6 is rumored to go to 6.9 for several years, need more cubes to meet epa standards. frtiz is harvard grad just like the other clowns that have ran business's in the ground along with congress's pandering and govt. excessive regs. i would like to see 4.5 in camaro with 6L90, think it would be sweet ride, just don't know if anybody could afford it, since everybody will be getting cadilllac's, ain't that what he promised, hence elimination of pontiac.

I believe the new clean diesel regulations hit in 2010 and I don't think the current Duramax will meet the EPA guidelines.

With GM in dire financial straits and pickup volume low, I would bet that they dump Diesels altogether instead of spending millions and millions (that they don't have) in making the Duramax meet the EPA.

Just my opinion.


I think there will always be a market for diesel. I could see the price of them going way up

The company I work for is still moving forward with the engine mouting system for the 2010 6.6L? Duramax. I question 6.6L because they're reluctant to inform us of the new displacement. The 4.5L engine mounts that we have/had in production is a different story... Things are kinda up in the air regarding the 4.5L mounting system.

FWIW, I hear the 4.5L is dead (too bad, too). Wonder why the have to redesign the engine mounts for the LML. Does the chassis change in 2011?

They are probably going to a stiffer fully boxed frame. that would be my guess as to why they might be redesigning the motor mounts, but hey anything is possible with Government(Obama) Motors.

My guess is that the new 2010 model will initially be offered with the same LMM engine currently offered to save money. Then for the new year when they have to switch over to the new emissions, they will switch to the new engine, whatever it is, as an 2010.5 model.
I get this from a GM site link from the one posted earlier. In this link you see pictures of 2010 engines, and on page 3 there is one for the Sierra/Silverado.
http://gm.wieck.com/forms/gm/*query?ws4d_nav=true&search_criteria=2010truckengines&sort=&source=all&page=3
If you scroll to page 6, you will see the 4.5 liter which is now on hold but there are 4 spaces available for use as a later date. Could be the new engine, or not I guess. Just guessing though.

I just read in my recent Truck Trend that the new Duramax will meet the new standards and will do that along with higher HP and torque numbers. The torque numbers are rumored to exceed 700. They will not just stop making it since it would not save them much money to stop production. It would be cheaper to get rid of lineups first like Saturn, Pontiac, Hummer, ect. The 4.5 though is another story, in the Mag. it said it is on hold indefinitely.

god dammit man. screw the EPA. the governments so retarted nowadays

god dammit man. screw the EPA. the governments so retarted nowadays
^
:exactly:
I just read in Diesel World that GM was still expected to introduce the mini-max in 2010:cool:

^
:exactly:
I just read in Diesel World that GM was still expected to introduce the mini-max in 2010:cool:


the way i understood it was they will still be holding off on it but the motor will not be scrapped.

My guess is all efforts will go to making the 6.6l version meet 2010 requirements (which are significant) and they will shit can all other diesel plans for the time being. I also think GM will drastically reduce the offerings in HD diesel vehicles under gvt pressure to make these "awful environmentally unfriendly hulks of machinery" less available to joe public and try and subvertly restrict HD vehicle use to those industries that truly "need" them, with "need" defined by the gvt. Additionally, look for the Dmax in 2010 to increase at least 30-40% as an option in 2010 and it will continue to increase. They will try and price out diesel use to only those that can really justify spending the money.

It may all sound a bit "big brother" paranoid, but given what else is going on everyday in this world of hope and change, I really think that the G in GM will reflect the wishes of the fed Gvt more and more.

Glad I own one now, just waiting for them to try and tax or fee me out of mine with future emissions testing, licensing fees, etc. It's coming just wait and see.

It would be more costly for them to lose market share on their leading brands that they are retaining, than to spend money on making a design they already have meet epa regs. Just my thought.

All of this worry over losing the duramax makes no sense. The diesel engine is the foundation of heavy work. There is a hole in the truck market that the gas motors they currently offer just can't fill. You may see less of them made but that is the extent of what will be done. They will never be dropped. The only time I would start to worry is if they start to offer small displacement V8's with direct injection and superchargers/turbochargers. If GM takes this direction, then you can start to worry about the diesel's future.

As for the 4.5 I'd bet anything that engine will be on the road in less than 18-24 months. That is one of the most revolutionary pieces GM has made in it's entire existence, it's impossible that they won't offer it. The old 6.2 in a 2 door blazer with 3.42 gears and a 700R4 would pull down high 26-28 mpg at 65 mph. I'd bet anything that the new 4.5 with a 6L90E and 3.42's will do that or better at the same speeds.

The 4.5 is too good of a fit for the situation we are in. It meet the emissions requirements, it gets fantastic economy, and will tow more than a big block gasser; how can you keep something like that on the shelf!!?? Volkswagen is proving it right now with their clean deisel, better economy than a hybred and performace to match.

The real concern I think you should have is how much it's going to cost you. They will make the 6.6 meet emissions, but how much will it add to the price of the vehicle? The last thing they will ever do is get rid of it.

Modern diesels are cleaner but are more expensive and aren't as fuel efficient as older diesels. Lots of emissions crap these days. VW's clean TDI is listed at 41mpg highway whereas the previous PD design engine was about 10% more.

Just a heads up, the 2010 emissions standards are brutal and why Cat got out of making on road diesels. Sad day :(

If GM is to make a 2010 diesel, they're going to need some serious after treatment to make the NOx and Soot emission levels. All of this is going to result is crappy stock fuel mileage. I rec that you buy a machine, and mod it immediately back to pre 2010 standards. EGR delete, after treatment delete, etc.

On a plus note I have a buddy who does research at a big ten university; this last week they made a gasoline/diesel dual fuel engine with 55% thermal efficiency and it made 2010 emissions standards with out any after treatments.

Just a heads up, the 2010 emissions standards are brutal and why Cat got out of making on road diesels. Sad day :(

If GM is to make a 2010 diesel, they're going to need some serious after treatment to make the NOx and Soot emission levels. All of this is going to result is crappy stock fuel mileage. I rec that you buy a machine, and mod it immediately back to pre 2010 standards. EGR delete, after treatment delete, etc.

On a plus note I have a buddy who does research at a big ten university; this last week they made a gasoline/diesel dual fuel engine with 55% thermal efficiency and it made 2010 emissions standards with out any after treatments.

IF??? You guys are insane. I dunno wtf is making people think GM is going to suddenly stop selling the duramax in 2010. :rolleyes:

ben

IF??? You guys are insane. I dunno wtf is making people think GM is going to suddenly stop selling the duramax in 2010. :rolleyes:

ben

Suddenly stop selling???? They never started!!!

With all the recent downsizing, production cuts, plant closures, layoffs, buyouts, product line cuts, dealer closings... you still think GM was testing and developing the 4.5L? You're hilarious. Wake up and smell the coffee. GM doesn't have enough money to make it on their own and even if sales and profits suddenly picked up they'd never make a 2010 production date.

Suddenly stop selling???? They never started!!!

With all the recent downsizing, production cuts, plant closures, layoffs, buyouts, product line cuts, dealer closings... you still think GM was testing and developing the 4.5L? You're hilarious. Wake up and smell the coffee. GM doesn't have enough money to make it on their own and even if sales and profits suddenly picked up they'd never make a 2010 production date.

I was referring to the 6.6. People are saying they will stop selling the 6.6.

The 4.5 is 100% DONE. Its complete; testing and design was done a LONG time ago. They already made a bunch of them. Why they are suddenly holding off on putting them into vehicles I dont know. I think they are waiting until they get the redesigned 6.6 released and out of the way, then they will bring out the 4.5.

They have put too much time and effort into the 4.5 to just piss it away; as I said, its all ready to go. I guarantee its not dead like everyone thinks it is; I bet you will see it released within the next 12 months.

thats my opinion and Im sticking to it, I know no one agrees with me but whatever; I guess we will just have to wait and see who is right.

ben

Suddenly stop selling???? They never started!!!

With all the recent downsizing, production cuts, plant closures, layoffs, buyouts, product line cuts, dealer closings... you still think GM was testing and developing the 4.5L? You're hilarious. Wake up and smell the coffee. GM doesn't have enough money to make it on their own and even if sales and profits suddenly picked up they'd never make a 2010 production date.


Its already made, they are waiting for the right time to bring it to market. They won't stop selling diesels. ;)

Its already made, they are waiting for the right time to bring it to market. They won't stop selling diesels. ;)

That'd be a first if GM or any auto manufacturer ever finished a new design well before a design freeze date.

A sneek peek at the direction ford is heading in,

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/06/sneak-peek-ford-bobcat-dual-fuel-engine.html

Guys I'm in manufacturing and product design is a small cost. Product testing is larger and on-going product support and re-engineering is costlier yet. I have no problem believing a "complete design" is scrapped. We do it all the time and often it is because the market changed. Nice product , wrong market, simple as that. Only time will tell but no sense in just crying about it.

Duramax won't go anywhere, there is to much money invested in the new 6.9 duramax to dump it. 2010 2011 we will see the 6.9

Duramax won't go anywhere, there is to much money invested in the new 6.9 duramax to dump it. 2010 2011 we will see the 6.9

GM is not making a 6.9 Dmax. It is going to remain a 6.6L

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/06/spied-gm-2011-heavy-duty-lml-duramax-diesel-engine.html

Code LML is the new one, current model is the LMM. Id hate to say it but the Dmax is getting to be old technology. If a bought one it would have to be 2006 or 2007 LBZ. What more can you ask for, 6 speed allison, and no DPF crap. The 05s have the 5 speed, and the 07 new bodys have the DPF. The Dmax is officially outdated. even the new LML is old technology. They could have used the CGI block like the 4.5L would have used and saved some weight, but opted for the old school regular iron block. the new LML is not even getting an 8 speed like was rumored. only an upgraded torque converter.

IMHO it wont be a big issue for them to meet the EPA standards, and they aren"t going to drop their cash cow! Ruck up! GM...

why are we speculating still when its obvious we will see the LML 6.6L continued for 2010?

GM is not making a 6.9 Dmax. It is going to remain a 6.6L

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/06/spied-gm-2011-heavy-duty-lml-duramax-diesel-engine.html

Code LML is the new one, current model is the LMM. Id hate to say it but the Dmax is getting to be old technology. If a bought one it would have to be 2006 or 2007 LBZ. What more can you ask for, 6 speed allison, and no DPF crap. The 05s have the 5 speed, and the 07 new bodys have the DPF. The Dmax is officially outdated. even the new LML is old technology. They could have used the CGI block like the 4.5L would have used and saved some weight, but opted for the old school regular iron block. the new LML is not even getting an 8 speed like was rumored. only an upgraded torque converter.

Old technology or not, the Silverado HD is still the best out there.

GM owns Detroit diesel, why haven't they brought some of the Big truck diesel tech to there diesel pickup's ?

Dodge got Cummins to build them a Fine pickup truck diesel ! it ended up being powerful enough it got some commercial use in Medium duty trucks too even. . .

Not that the izzy's are bad motors. . .

But if the other 2 companies are getting there Diesel power from Heavy n medium truck engine builders why don't GM. . .

Why hasn't GM. . .

GM has produced Cummins & Cat powered Heavy n Medium truck's since the late 60's early 70's a few of them had Detroit's even . . .They also had the ToroFlow diesel's from the Mid 50's till the cat/cummins switch over they made record setting Torque but lacked Horsepower all they needed where turbo chargers a few guys around added turbo's n after coolers to there old skool 1950's DH478 V-6's they go good now. . .

Either way GM has produced Some rather powerful Gassers in its day everybody has to admit that much weather they Like or dislike Gas engines.

which is prolly what lead to the late start n low interest by GM in light duty Diesels. . .

Mike

The Duramax did spawn from medium duty trucks. Called Isuzu NPY FPR trucks, no the motor was not used in these trucks but all there knowledge from there medium duty motors was put into the 6.6 Duramax. The D-Max is built just as or even more medium duty than the cummins and navistar motors.

I never said the D-max wasn't a good engine its a fine very strong. . .

Mike

GM owns Detroit diesel, why haven't they brought some of the Big truck diesel tech to there diesel pickup's ?

Dodge got Cummins to build them a Fine pickup truck diesel ! it ended up being powerful enough it got some commercial use in Medium duty trucks too even. . .

Not that the izzy's are bad motors. . .

But if the other 2 companies are getting there Diesel power from Heavy n medium truck engine builders why don't GM. . .

Why hasn't GM. . .

GM has produced Cummins & Cat powered Heavy n Medium truck's since the late 60's early 70's a few of them had Detroit's even . . .They also had the ToroFlow diesel's from the Mid 50's till the cat/cummins switch over they made record setting Torque but lacked Horsepower all they needed where turbo chargers a few guys around added turbo's n after coolers to there old skool 1950's DH478 V-6's they go good now. . .

Either way GM has produced Some rather powerful Gassers in its day everybody has to admit that much weather they Like or dislike Gas engines.

which is prolly what lead to the late start n low interest by GM in light duty Diesels. . .

Mike

First off, GM hasn't owned Detroit in years. In fact, since 2000, Detroit has been owned by Daimler, who also owns Freightliner/Western Star/Sterling. Second off, the Cummins 6B5.9/T/TA was not made to be a pickup Diesel. It was made to be a commercial, medium duty engine. They did, however, find their way into the Dodge pickups, but by no means were they designed for Dodge. Ford is the same deal. The 6.9/7.3 IDI were MD engines put in pickups, as was the 7.3 PSD (T444E). The 6.0 and 6.4 are offered in MD applications, but IDK about their history. As far as GM gassers, IMHO, they are the best out there. I do not, however like gas. Finally, GM had an early start in LD Diesels, but their first attempt was a dismal failure in the public eye.

Well the DH351-V6, DH478-V6,DH637-V8 5.7D old's,6.2NA,and 6.5-T. . .did not work out as hopped but yea if you really think about GM tried diesel pick ups around 1958-1962 with the DH's aka toro flows. . .

GM's first diesels:
http://6066gmcguy.org/toroflow.htm

The Gasser counter parts:
http://6066gmcguy.org/EngineData.htm

Full site:
http://www.6066gmcguy.org/

Mike

today heard on news that gm is going to work on producing truck and car line that are selling, so 4.5 maybe back on track. there will be sales if made available. gm has not owned DD for decades, penske bought out and sold interest to daimler, gm picked up penske's interest in vm motori, last year.

I'm guessing then GM split with DD shortly after they quit building the GMC Generals n Brig's...

The 8.2L DD in the topkick ish C60s n C70s didn't seem to go to well...

But I'm not all that up to date. . .

Mike