I went to the 2nd SoCal DHRA diesel drag event today at LACR, and it was a very interesting day.

Currently I'm running a TTS level 2 tune with a Van Aaken box, for 436HP. I ran the DHRA brackets with it, and finished first. While I was in the pits during the event Joe from PPE came up and asked me if I would try a new tune they've developed. Sure, I'm a professional guinea pig! I told him after the races, I'd give it a try.:D

The DA was pretty high about 4000ft, so don't worry about the actual ET's.
With my stack in the morning, I ran 14.21@93.45 w/1.94 (8.99@75.8 1/8)before the wind picked up.
At the end of the day the wind was blowing pretty hard, and my MPH dropped a bit, but the PPE ran 14.27@91.64 w/1.93 (8.98@75.5 1/8).
This is quicker and faster than any other single tune I've tested.

The PPE was actually running pretty close to my 436HP stack.

Then I sprayed the PPE for a new best of 13.56@101.41 w/1.94 (8.70@80.9 1/8)

There was another "mystery" tuner at the track as well, but I'll respect their privacy and let them post about it (or not).

Oh, and the final was Ford vs. GM. :D :p: :cool: :ro) :muahaha:

Good work Pat!!! To anybody listening....I am a willing and able guinea pig too!! I likes new toys...............:ro) Any of those cool videos you always have? Have you solved your fuel starvation issues?

The "laydown" part of fuel problem appears to be fixed. I'm now running a Trippin pickup and a Carter pump. But I did get a 1093 on the way home. I'm still baffled by 1093's. Drag racing seldom causes them, I get them mostly on the street passing.

I didn't have time to shoot any video, but there were several people there taking pictures and videos.

Yep i am running that PPE as well. Runs great. drive great. I was able to run a 120 NOS jet with no-problem. but for some reason it did not help my et? ANy ONE going to California speed way on the 9th

You know Pat....I never get that dang 1093 when going wot from a start, always passing or speeding up from a cruising speed...very weird.

Yep i am running that PPE as well. Runs great. drive great. I was able to run a 120 NOS jet with no-problem. but for some reason it did not help my et? ANy ONE going to California speed way on the 9th

I didn't get too much time to play with it, as the track was closing.

He said the tune was 445rwhp on their truck. It was a "beta". It did run pretty strong, no doubt at all.

Cal speedway? Dunno, I think I have a race in Lost Wages that weekend.

IM hoping to go to California Dragway on the 9th i want to see how deep into the 12's i can get.

IM hoping to go to California Dragway on the 9th i want to see how deep into the 12's i can get.
We are going to Vegas next weekend. But we will be at the May 13th one :D

Oh, and the final was Ford vs. GM. :D :p: :cool: :ro) :muahaha:
I guess it was the wrong Ford!!:eek: :muahaha: :ro)

Nice time though Rat:D

CONGRATS ON THE TIMES MCRAT BEFORE LONG YOULL BE IN THE LOW 13'S :ro) I WONDER WHAT THE PPE HATERS THINK NOW ;)

So, any word on when that tune will be available to the general public???

No idea when it will be released. It caught me by surprise, I was not expecting to do any testing when I showed up.

It was a "test" tune, and had tip-in issues when driven slow, but I was more interested in peak performance than drivibility. For racing, seems AOK to me. For daily driving in stop and go traffic, you'd need to run one the smaller tunes in the programmer.

CONGRATS ON THE TIMES MCRAT BEFORE LONG YOULL BE IN THE LOW 13'S :ro) I WONDER WHAT THE PPE HATERS THINK NOW ;)

I did some testing on the "regular" Hot PPE (stacked), and reported back that it laid down at 1/2 track. This was probably my truck, not the tuner. For that I apologize.

For LLY guys, it certainly bears watching.

Also need data on the new LLY Hot Juice and a more serious look at the Banks. A LLY Banks-equipped truck was running very good MPH for a single tuner.

Looks like the bar has been raised.

Nice runs Pat! Do you have any idea what your race weight was by chance?

Startin to be a believer in the PPE boxes?

CONGRATS ON THE TIMES MCRAT BEFORE LONG YOULL BE IN THE LOW 13'S :ro) I WONDER WHAT THE PPE HATERS THINK NOW ;)
As long as PPE adopts a "Truth in advertising" stance and returns the money they stole from Ghettosled's credit card, I'm sure people here will have no problem with them in the future.

Nice runs Pat! Do you have any idea what your race weight was by chance?

Startin to be a believer in the PPE boxes?

Probably 7200-7400 (7120 dry OEM, 300lb driver and stuff, + triple hitch, minus tailgate and spare). Need to weigh again.

He said 445rwhp for a single tune, and I kinda smirked. RIIIIGGGHTT. :rolleyes:

But I could tell as soon as it launched that it is probably very close to their claim. Essentially, that's about 200HP when used with an exhaust.

But nobody was as surprised as one of my friends who races a 2004 Mach I Mustang, who I lined up on. ;)

A LLY Banks-equipped truck was running very good MPH for a single tuner.

Looks like the bar has been raised.
Pat,
The best MPH I run today was 94.1 Best ET today was 14.800 @ 93.384 w/ 2.310 60ft time!! Not too bad considering we were above 4000ft.(DA). I might have to make it to the next private event at fontana (may ?) and let you run the Banks! I'd definitely like to see what it does on your truck. Was a great day today, except for the fact that on the way home, truck layed down all the way until I stopped and disconnected/reconnected the Banks (after the mexican joint). Thanks again Pat!

CONGRATS ON THE TIMES MCRAT BEFORE LONG YOULL BE IN THE LOW 13'S :ro) I WONDER WHAT THE PPE HATERS THINK NOW ;)i dont think im a hater,but i think i can get similar products from bully dog

As long as PPE adopts a "Truth in advertising" stance and returns the money they stole from Ghettosled's credit card, I'm sure people here will have no problem with them in the future.


DONT KNOW ANYTING ABOUT THAT :eek: IF THATS SO THAT SUX BIG TIME :(

KINGD WHY DOESNT BULLYDOG HAVE ONE OUT THAT WILL MATCH IT THEN?? :)

ppe doesnt have one out either,i would lay some coin that i can get my hands on a hot lly tuner from bdog,wanna wager nut

I have been Running it for Over week now and it drives Great. Much better then the hot lly from before. Its does not rattle like the hot lly. It did run a little stronger then my hott lly enforcer stack. 8.36 @ 85 nos 82 jet, not bad.

Pat, did you try to stack it with the VA?

I have been Running it for Over week now and it drives Great. Much better then the hot lly from before. Its does not rattle like the hot lly. It did run a little stronger then my hott lly enforcer stack. 8.36 @ 85 nos 82 jet, not bad.

Pat, did you try to stack it with the VA?

Nope, I only did two passes at the end of the day before the track closed. I'd like to do some more testing with it.

There was another "mystery" tuner at the track as well, but I'll respect their privacy and let them post about it (or not).
We've been testing LLY product for quite along time, this was just another test day. The results .......................... well let's say we ran just a bit quicker and faster than McRat was able to muster on any tune he had for the day.):h We had some issues with the transmission and of coarse the good old P1093 problem but believe were getting to the end of them for the LLY group. It was a good day other than the wind was blowing pretty good all day across the track.

i'll put my money on jess..



ppe doesnt have one out either,i would lay some coin that i can get my hands on a hot lly tuner from bdog,wanna wager nut

Wait a minute.....I thought McRat's truck was the tts lly test mule :confused:

We've been testing LLY product for quite along time, this was just another test day. The results .......................... well let's say we ran just a bit quicker and faster than McRat was able to muster on any tune he had for the day.):h We had some issues with the transmission and of coarse the good old P1093 problem but believe were getting to the end of them for the LLY group. It was a good day other than the wind was blowing pretty good all day across the track.

About .2 seconds quicker IIRC.
The trucks were very similiar in configuration and weight.

8.98 1/8 at 75.5 at the end of the day, takes the wind out of equation. What 1/8th did you guys get?

If PPE claims are correct, you should be at 465rwhp.
Based on my truck, you are at 456rwhp.

If you are interested in a dyno comparison, let me know, and I will see if I can get the PPE to test again. I'm sure the "other truck" and I can arrange a time to get together.

However, I did run 13.5 late in the day into the wind. :D Certainly not the quickest LLY, but the quickest at the track that day IIRC. It was doing 4 WD burnouts off the line!

I'm nearly done with the truck. Some minor adjustments, and it will have hit my 13.99 goal on #2, and there I stop. Will have taken about 14 months.

Wait a minute.....I thought McRat's truck was the tts lly test mule :confused:

I guess not. :(

While I still run the TTS tunes every day due to their superior street manners, I would guess that Steve wants his "test mule" to be the quickest of the LLY's in the area, and my truck isn't going to be it.

My goal when I bought the truck was to get Lightning Killing performance in a large tow vehicle.

We are still debating getting a second truck for "performance" applications. Need more data on the 2006 design changes before making a decision. Right now, it looks like we should find a 2002-2003 Dmax instead for competition events.

Wait a minute.....I thought McRat's truck was the tts lly test mule :confused: We have many test trucks, we just donot talk about them everyday. Mc Rat is just one of many we use. He has one tune and others have other tunes.

I will say this, I've enjoyed testing Steve's products. If all aftermarket parts were like TTS'es the world would be a much nicer, and FASTER place. ;)

Steve has been very helpful this last year, and even helped us with our Corvette when another performance shop screwed us up. He went the extra mile for us, and then some. He is truly a standup guy.

Once we feel the testing is complete we will release the tunes to everyone but for now we just keep working to solve the issues as they arrive. The LLY has a different set of problems from the LB7 and at this time I donot believe we are anywhere near the end of them. You fix one thing and another comes up but it's not good to release something and not know what's it going to do on each and every truck.

I know if you talk to rick from dave's diesel. He has his own performance tune from BD, so I am sure you can get a good tune from them as well. Note that on PPE's website they said they wouldn't have any problems breaking into the 11's but that was on diesel and nitrous. Also that was on an 02 though i believe.

Any rate great job to testers and producers a like. :ro)

They say that on their website but has anyone witnessed a duramax in socal make an 11 sec. pass yet? They also make all their hp/tq claims from the flywheel, is it to make the #'s seem larger since most others quote RWHP? Has anyone seen a duramax on an engine dyno to verify these #'s or are the #'s just a calculation using RWHP and adding back drivetrain loss? Just wondering.

KINGD LETS SEE IT?????? :) JUST REMEMBER YOURE GONNA HAVE TO COME UP WITH A LLY TO TRY IT ON. YOUR 24V GOAT AINT GONNA LIKE IT TO MUCH :eek:

Not many engine dynos are capable of holding back a bombed Duramax.

My bet is PPE used a calculation supplied to them by the chassis dyno mfg. Drivetrain loss of 15-20%?

Thats what I kinda figured, trippin, but if I were to advertise hp #'s I would like to use the actual #'s from the dyno. Using the calculation will work but leaves more room for error, what do you think?

DONT KNOW ANYTING ABOUT THAT :eek: IF THATS SO THAT SUX BIG TIME :(


Hey Nut,

Here's a link on that whole deal. No follow up so I don't honestly know where it ended up.:(

http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19842&page=1&pp=10

Diesel hotrodding is unique in the performance world. It's normally measured in RWHP, which is very, very odd. Cars are sold with "brochure" HP, which is often inflated engine HP, and gasser mods are advertised with engine stand dyno numbers.

The 4wd diesel Duramax loss? Very heavy. A manual Corvette loses about 12%, (stock 358RWHP brochure is 405HP). A diesel automatic 4wd 3500 SRW is about 20% (stock 246rwhp brochure is 305HP). There are flukes, such as the LS1 Camaro (300/305) and the 03 Cobra (365/390), where the brochure is vastly underated, and hype such as the RX-8 (185/252) where the claims were so ridiculous that Mazda had to buy back hundreds of cars from dissatisfied owners.

What it boils down to is real world performance. Regardless of what the "claims" are, the real proof is what it can do. To date, the most universal measure of engine output vs. vehicle weight is the 1/4mi acceleration test. There might be better ways to measure average engine output, but none is so simple and so universally accepted as the dragstrip. This is why you hear so much about 1/4mi times, it's the true yardstick to compare real performance.

Thats what I kinda figured, trippin, but if I were to advertise hp #'s I would like to use the actual #'s from the dyno. Using the calculation will work but leaves more room for error, what do you think?I personally think that drivetrain/engine parasitic losses are fixed at some given number based on rotational and/or reciprocal speed. It may take 25 hp to turn the drivetrain at 50mph and even more to turn it 90mph but these parasitic losses are constant for each individual vehicle based on speed.

Using a loss of 15% at 240rwhp would indicate 36hp consumed in drivetrain loss at let's say 2600 rpm.

Using a loss of 15% at 400rwhp would indicate 60hp consumed in drivetrain loss at 2600 rpm.

If all we did was plug in an Edge module, did we really do anything to increase drivetrain loss? :confused:

But that is just my opinion and may be completely inaccurate based on the inhalation of entirely to many diesel fumes. :D

But that is just my opinion and may be completely inaccurate based on the inhalation of entirely to many diesel fumes. :D

:funnypost :funnypost ........Trippin, your just too funny. With all the dyno runs you've made I'm sure your lungs just look wonderful, wonder if our trucks should come with surgeon general's warnings!!!! :lol:

We've been testing LLY product for quite along time, this was just another test day. The results .......................... well let's say we ran just a bit quicker and faster than McRat was able to muster on any tune he had for the day.):h We had some issues with the transmission and of coarse the good old P1093 problem but believe were getting to the end of them for the LLY group. It was a good day other than the wind was blowing pretty good all day across the track.
Obvisoully STEVE has never been in Palmdale when it was WINDY:eek: , because that was a slight slight breeze for Palmdale on Sunday... (natives in Palmdale would have called the weather on Sunday a b e a u t i f u l day.)

If you ever wonder why most of the trees grow sideways....:exactly:

I personally think that drivetrain/engine parasitic losses are fixed at some given number based on rotational and/or reciprocal speed. It may take 25 hp to turn the drivetrain at 50mph and even more to turn it 90mph but these parasitic losses are constant for each individual vehicle based on speed.

Using a loss of 15% at 240rwhp would indicate 36hp consumed in drivetrain loss at let's say 2600 rpm.

Using a loss of 15% at 400rwhp would indicate 60hp consumed in drivetrain loss at 2600 rpm.

If all we did was plug in an Edge module, did we really do anything to increase drivetrain loss? :confused:

But that is just my opinion and may be completely inaccurate based on the inhalation of entirely to many diesel fumes. :D

Yep, fumes. :D

There is both a variable and fixed component of loss. To make it worse, it's a combination of several variable and several fixed losses! And to REALLY give you a headache, many of variables are non-linear in nature. Things like axle bearings are fairly linear, but others like differentials with all the oil being slung are non-linear. Wait, we're not done yet. :rolleyes: Since most dynos are doing acceleration tests, mass and radial centroids of rotational components confuses it even more. Censored

Well, unless we want to tear our engines out, we are stuck with either representing it as fixed (#) or variable (%). What comes closest to mimicing it, is straight variable (%). A 6000HP engine will consume WAY more than 50HP and a 60HP will consume far less than 50HP.

Yep, fumes. :D

radial centroids of rotational components confuses it even more. Censored

.:iamwithst

Trippin,

think of it this way. while i saw your point. think about this.

once you put so much HP into that allison (whether it be stock or not) the amount of hp going to the rear wheels will eventually go to 0 if ya know what i mean. ):h ):h ):h