I finally got my bigger tanks installed. Each of them are 18 gallon equivalent, for a total of 54 gal. I should be able to do around 1100 miles on a fillup, while getting 50 mpg on diesel. I am getting a diamond plate enclosure made that will have a swing up back cover to access the fill valve and tank valves.

Marc,

Where are you getting your tanks at? Are they new? Nice setup!

No, they are used. They expire in 2018. I have a few of them, wish I could get some more. They are too long to go in a shortbed, they are 82" long.

That mileage would be nice.:D Hope you use your truck for towing things as the box is no longer useful.

I'll be able to put things on top of the tanks when I get the enclosure installed. We have a gas well and a compressor, so running on free gas helps offset the loss of space.

sounds like cng is the way 2 go

Looks good Marc. I need to come up and look at it sometime and take you a ride in mine now. Jeff

Please be nice to your local fire department and put USDOT stickers on those tanks. One of these on each tank with "1971" in the blank space would suffice. Any sign shop would be able to make some up for you.

http://environmentalchemistry.com/images/placards/2.1-B.gif

On Edit: Just put one on the diamond-plate enclosure when you get that done.

Given the last post...are they any kind of local safety requirements for putting a CNG or propane tank in the bed of your truck?

You'd have to call your local fire department to get the local restrictions. USDOT 49CFR regulates the commercial transport of hazardous materials. State (and sometimes local) fire codes regulate the storage of hazardous materials. Codes categorize CNG as a flammable type of compressed gas, which is a hazardous material.

Technically, since the tanks are in use while the truck is in motion, most of the storage regulations don't apply. Since the capacity is less than 1,001 pounds, 49CFR does not apply either. The biggest things to be concerned about are that the tanks are properly secured, or nested if upright, with three points of contact. Graded bolts and hardware should be used to secure the tanks to the vehicle, and a substantial cover should be used to separate the tanks from the elements if the valves are going to be constantly exposed. Unless those tanks are classified as "horizontal" tanks, they should not be used at an angle of less than 45 degrees to the ground. "Upright" tanks can create a problem when used in the horizontal position. The other big thing is to make sure that they're properly labeled - especially with that large of quantity. This link (http://www.firetrainingresources.net/items/CNGAutoFire-FIREFIGHTERNEARMISScompressedpics.pdf) will show you what can happen with an 8 pound tank - imagine what 3x 18lb tanks will do.

I urge anybody who has done this, or is considering this mod to contact their local fire department and have them tell you what is locally allowed. If that setup were to catch fire and hurt (or kill) somebody, prosecutors will find something to nail you on.

ON EDIT: This is actually way more of a problem than I thought it was at first. Need to break out the code book on this one next time I'm at work. Wishing I hadn't seen this thread :rolleyes:

Q101ATFD thanks for your response.

Check this out...

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk160/turborzr/CNGtanks2.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk160/turborzr/CNGTanks1.jpg


4 CNG tanks in a 5' 6" bed
50 GGE total (Gasoline Gallon Equivalent)
They are brand new tanks (Type 3)
They cost me about $2,400. each Including brackets, Valves & the PRD.

Guess you don't use the bed much..

What kind of cng kit are you using?

Can the propane kits, with suitable adjustments, be used for cng?

Guess you don't use the bed much..


Looks like the bed is completely used...:p:

Yep, I'd much rather have the 970 mile range burning nothing but CNG.
If I need to haul something I'll put it on a trailer, or drive the D Max.

Can the propane kits, with suitable adjustments, be used for cng?

I can build a cng kit to do lp also.

that is crazy looking wish i had the money to change over to CNG where I live the oil supply has gone scars and the rendering company's are putting more pressure on the restaurants to use them tell them all kinds of lies

I finally got the enclosure from the fabricator today.

looks good

Been watching the posts on WMI and can't help but wonder if it is worth it verses running Marc's CNG system. Adding the cost of the WMI kit, pulling the engine apart, having to buy "pure" water from the store at ...what ... $2 or so a gallon, then if you "blend your own" and buy the Meth by the drum.. or get washer fluid from Wally World at a bit more ....etc...

Been running CNG since Sept 2008 and could not be happier. I guess I am lucky that I have a public CNG Station a mile from where I work. Even with CNG at $1.95/GGE and Diesel at $1.95 - $2.09 here in Michigan, it is still worth the cost of going CNG. Basically a one-week-end install for the CNG Tank and Kit, nothing to maintain after, just fill-up and go. The extra power, cleaner oil, smooth running, great operation in the winter.....

One thing I did not notice until recently when I ran out of CNG, ... How much quieter the "already quiet" Duramax runs on CNG. Have only run out of CNG 2 times now since Sept 2008 (I kind of go through "withdrawls" when I run out and want to get the CNG re-filled ASAP... kind of like running out of nitrous on my 69 camaro).

Looking at getting the "better half" something Diesel (Benz Diesel SUV or if GM makes it and comes out with rumored Caddy CTS Diesel, or the Jeep Diesel), then I can justify a home CNG Fill unit.

Guess I need to work on my picture editing to get them small enough to upload, yet get the whole picture in the frame.... Will try again...

So you guys run CNG in your Duramax's?

Think I can get my 6.5 diesel to run on it? I have a CNG setup off my '87 GMC that came from the dealer brand new with it installed.

Chevyinlinesix ... Marc Deluca's system is a "bi-fuel system" that requires both fuels (Diesel and CNG) to run. Its a "fumigation" system that draws the CNG in before the Turbo. In Short, as RPMs go up, CNG as a percent of total fuel use goes up (and vice versa as RPMs go down). Marc's CNG system needs at least some diesel burning to "fire" the CNG. Most of the "dealer" CNG systems were "either - or" (Gasoline "or" CNG). None I have seen for Diesel "or" CNG. Diesels have "glow plugs" to "fire" the fuel, and the "or" systems use Spark Plugs.

If you wanted to convert to "only" CNG for your 6.5, I beleive your used dealer system could work, you will likely have to also convert the Diesel to a spark plug ignition system. I beleive the 6.5 motor has the compression ratio and heads to run only CNG.... but with the limited amount of CNG Stations out there, dont run out of CNG or your stuck.

With the bi-fuel, if you run out of CNG, so what... you just run pure diesel and the DMax Computer system adapts back automaticly... until you can get a re-fill of CNG.

I see now, sounds relatively simple. I may look into one of these setups, I believe there is two CNG fueling stations where I live, or I could just get a large tank filled, and fill my own. Thanks for the info.

The 6.5 will do fine on dual fuel cng. When my 6.5 was running propane, it would get 30 mpg on diesel while getting 29 mpg on lp. CNG is better, because it has a higher octane rating and resists detonation more than lp. One company called Omnitek does spark ignition conversions of diesels, but I wouldn't recommend it.

I guess now I have to look into getting the system re-certified, at least now I know it can be done.:D

What is involved in certification?

I don't know exactly, all I know is when I bought the truck the guy told me that the CNG system would need to be re-certified before I could use it, legally.

Chevyinlinesix......
If you are in Ontario (as it seems from your ID here), you should be ok in proceeding, but here in the states, certifing and re-certifing can be very costly, and is only done with the CNG Manufactures system on the exact make, model, year, and engine (there is more but that is a more detailed discussion). Anything outside of the above can be in excess of $200K for certification.

If the kit you have is not from one of the automotive companies (GM, Ford, etc....), Canada has a little more relaxed rules and supports CNG "Supplier" kits. Many of the kits that are installed in Canada are after market and come from a company in Italy.

Those of us here in the northern US states have seen a number of the US people just drive over to Canada and have there cars converted, then drive back and go about their merry way with a sound CNG system. I have been in contact with a place in Chatham and in Toronto that does CNG conversions. The guy in Chatham is very knowledgeable and I would recommend talking to him.
ATW Automotive
733 Park Avenue West Chatham, ON N7M 1X3 Canada (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&q=733+Park+Avenue+West+Chatham%2C+ON+N7M+1X3+Canad a)
519-354-6978

One other note, if your system does not have/come with a CNG Tank, that is where your expense is going to be... not really with the kit. Your dealing with 3000 - 3600 PSI, and the bigger the tank, the bigger the costs. CNG Tanks are Date Certified as well, both US and Canada.

I have been considering doing a pure CNG hot rod car on pure CNG. With the octane of CNG, 13-to-1 slugs would work great on CNG. I saw a Drag car at Milan Dragway that ran pure CNG on a 454. He ripped of a 10.10 in the quarter mile in a chevelle during his testing. Marc Deluca has a friend doing the same to a 70-71 camaro with a small block chevy, but have not heard his results. Flipping the 6.5 to a pure CNG with an MSD ignition system would be a rush. :)

Not real sure about the Omnitec system out of California either. Note they only sell outside the US.

Chevyinlinesix
You are only about 1 hour away from me. I am in a northern suburb of Detroit, about 2 miles west of I-94. If you are interested in making a run my way some weekend, let me know an I can show you my truck with Marc's CNG kit.

Louie3550, I looked at the map of that place in Chatham, I've driven almost right past it twice! Great info. I would be interested in making a drive over your way to check out your setup, but right now I can't really leave the country because of some insane lies that were said against me, hence my tailgate. Once all this bull plop is thrown out I'll be good to go, thank you again.

Were do you get your tank filled and how much is it a gal.
Chevyinlinesix
You are only about 1 hour away from me. I am in a northern suburb of Detroit, about 2 miles west of I-94. If you are interested in making a run my way some weekend, let me know an I can show you my truck with Marc's CNG kit.

1dieselsteve: I fill-up at the DTE AltFuel Station in Detroit. $1.95/GE. Basically it is across the street from the Motor City Casino. www.Altfuelsprices.com (http://www.Altfuelsprices.com) shows all the listings across the US... the michigan stations are listed there....

BTW: AT&T just announce that they are going to spend $500 million over the next 10 years refreshing their fleet with CNG cars and trucks as part of an arrangement with Ford. Part of this deal is to also support 40 additional CNG stations in the US. Per my discussions with DTE Energy, Michigan is one of the 1st 5 states on their list to move forward on the program. There is also an approximate $95K Federal Tax credit for gas stations to install/provide CNG to the public. Working with my local Sunco station as the owner seems interested, but we are a bit in chicken vs. egg situation.... need more CNG cystomers for these stations to invest ... people are slow to get CNG cars because lack of stations. With a Bi-Fuel diesel... doesn't really matter... if you run out of CNG, the Duramax automaticlly adjusts back to run just diesel.

1dieselsteve: I also pull a 5th wheel... 36 ft Newmar Kountry Star and have the 1st generation 22K SuperGlide hitch. I'm a '01 short bed crew cab. Can't wait to pull with CNG this RV Season.

Back to the top for this wonderful old thread.. I have a 2000 Powerstroke that I'm looking at CNG for. I found this thread through a google search. Very neat... I'm not sure I need the range you have. CNG is only $.75 a gallon here and I would love to get that mileage. I formerly was a pretty strong biodiesel proponent (and still sorta am but am a little heistant with my Ford mostly because its such a PITA to work on/deal with and so much to go wrong -- and I hear from qualified sources that bio and ford components do not last).

Anyway, thanks for the thread.. OP I will be contacting you as well.

thanks,
Andre

I just did a round trip from eastern Ohio to Frederick Maryland and back. It was 670 miles, and it took 6.5 gal of #2. It is mountainous the whole way, and I had some city driving at one end. Started running out of cng about 15 miles from home, could only go about 50 mph by the time I got home w/o adding some diesel. I will be going to Indy next week, we'll see if I can do better on that trip.

Hey guys, I have a 2006 lbz and have been interested in a CNG kit for my truck. Any recommendation on which kits I should consider. I don’t know a whole lot about which kits are better, the perfect size tank. I like to be able to use the bed of my truck as I am getting ready to buy a 30+ ft fifth wheel. I live in GA and not sure where a refueling station would be located. so I would like to be able to run on diesel as well as CNG. I would appreciate any information you can give me. Thanks guys

PM me your phone # and I'll call you.

I want to know more about the CNG home fill stations... I have NG at the house. If I can work it out as far as numbers and savings goes, I'd consider going with CNG as both myself and my wife drive duramaxes. :D We could save greatly. Me moreso than her since I do more driving and about half of which is interstate.


Thanks.

Ok, I crunched some numbers based on figures posted in here and current usage rate at my house for NG (about $1.07/GGE)and I can't see the benefit as far as saving money... It saves somewhere between $.01 and $.03 per mile. With an estimated $5000 startup cost (for the at home fill station and truck setup as I wouldn't want to go somewhere to get it) and I avg. 20K miles per year (or about 35K including wife's truck), that's a lot of miles and years to get back to even.

does that seem about right? This is more for those with lots of miles to travel?


c-ya

hows it working for you so far?

Here is the math. Current diesel cost $2.90. If truck averages 18 mpg, that is 16.1¢/mi. If you do the blend at 2 parts cng 1 part diesel, you go to 54 mpg. That drops the diesel cost/mile to 5.4¢/mi. Diesel is 140,000 btu. At 18 mpg, that is 7777 btu/mi. at 54 mpg, that is 2600 btu/mi. 7777-2600=5177 btu/mi from cng. A GGE is 125,000 btu. 125,000/5177= 24 mpg on cng. $1.07/24 = 4.5¢/mi for cng. So, 5.4¢ + 4.5¢ = 9.9¢/mi for the blend. So you save over 6¢/mi. This doesn't take into account the cost of the compressor or injection system. If you drive 20K miles/yr, it saves $1200/yr. So it will take several years to pay for the equipment at current prices. As diesel goes up, the ROI improves. The more vehicles and the more miles, the better things get.

Yeah, we were jiving on the numbers til the "24mpg on cng". Based on your most recent trip, I took it that you said your 54gge CNG setup got you about 700miles and that's close to 13mpgge and is the number I used in my calculations. That's a far cry from the 24mpgge you've figured up.

I'm not trying to negate what you are saying, I just want a good understanding of the costs and reasonably accurate estimates on economy of doing this as I would LOVE to do this. I just want to make sure I'm looking as real of number as possible.


Thanks Marc! I appreciate your input in regards to all of this!


C-ya

I get around 15 mpgge while I am achieving 200 mpg #2 using my microcontroller. 200 mpg diesel is 700 btu/mi. 7777 btu/mi - 700 = around 7100 btu/mi from cng. 125,000/7100 = 17 mpgge. There may be some efficiency lost due to not having enough ignition timing advance for the cng, but it should come out fairly close.

Benn running Marc's (mechanical) system for 1.5 years. Running about a 55% CNG to 45% diesel blend. I full publicly for $1.95/GGE of CNG but been wanting to fill at home. I believe based on my numbers, you really need to be at the 50k miles per year (and likely 2 vehicles to do it, unless one is pure CNG).

I get NG at the house "uncompressed" for about $1.25/GGE. When you add the cost of a compressor, the electricity to run it, and the 3000 - 6000 hour rebuild cost, my home fill numbers come to $2.55/GGE on a 3 year ROI.

Since I get CNG publicly at $1.94/GGE, home fill just is not in the cards at the moment. If I get the better half a Turbo Diesel or a pure CNG, I will likely pull the trigger and do it.

The compressor I am selling should go at least 8K hours before valves need rebuilt. At present prices, you need several vehicles or put tons of miles on to have a good ROI. When I get the microcontroller done, it will help speed up ROI because you can run over 90% cng.

CNG is sure saving me $ at $2/GGE (MI) and Diesel is above $4.

Don't you wish you could fill up in Oklahoma? It is 75¢ at the pump. Can't afford to run a compressor there.

Don't you wish you could fill up in Oklahoma? It is 75¢ at the pump. Can't afford to run a compressor there.

Price in my area is $1.25 at the pump, but that is the local city yard. From the SoCal Gas Co pumps the price is $2.10. If I could find a conversion kit for my 2007 Ford Focus I would add your setup for my DMAX as well....At the current fuel prices my DMAX is sitting the majority of the time...