I know people often wonder about different intakes. As we know, most the aftermarket 6.5 intakes have an open filter element in the open hood. Sure, they do pull in more air, and flow much easier, but at what cost? The cost is heat. Cooler air is more dense than warm air, so having the air as cool as possible comming in means having as much O2 as possible, means having more power and economy. Higher IAT's also result in higher EGT's/ With this in mind, I have set out to discover the different IAT's of different airbox set-ups. I will be testing an open filter element, a simple heat shield, a modified enclosed box, and possibly an enclosed box. All tests will be dne with the engine at operating temp at idle.

Today I was able to test the IAT of the open element. The ambient temp was around 30-40 degrees F. My IAT's were closer to 60-70 degrees. This shows an IAT increase of 30-40 degrees over ambient. Hopefully over the next few weeks I can test the other configurations. I plan to update this post as I progress.

nice job RC, keep us posted! You must have alot of time on your hands.

Maybe I should come over and we could test the effects of them with intercoolers haha :)

*edit*

I have a lot of time on my hands as well, I'm just to lazy to do anything with it :D

Maybe I should come over and we could test the effects of them with intercoolers haha :)

*edit*

I have a lot of time on my hands as well, I'm just to lazy to do anything with it :D

I have an odd feeling that intercooling or WMI would almost make the temp increase of the open filter negligble.

New guy here, but I wanted to comment on a possible problem testing this at idle - when you're moving air will flow around the headlights and through the engine bay which will help the iat's of an open filter, I'd imagine.

On one of my bmws with an unshielded cone intake (similar to how the 6.5 with a cone filter in the battery location) I placed my external temp sensor between the filter and the engine; it only read a couple of degrees above ambient when moving.

Just something to consider as we're obviously more concerned about iats when we're driving than when we're sitting at a light.

Todd, someone has mentioned that after driving a distance that their filter was actually hot to the touch, which suggests its too hot there even when driving, which I also found unusual and never thought to check mine out. I will tommorrow. I still have all the internal fender plumbing in there and the tip of the cone is almost in the hole that was there for the original filter so I assumed that cold air was constantly washing over the filter, making the engine heat under the hood negligable, but apparently not.

Also I have read many threads about the particular vendor I got my CAI from as well, so it makes me wonder to what extent would someone go to just to bash this particular vendors product. I am new to diesels and new to this forum but apparently steak sauce is not good on your 6.5 if you ask around here....I only baught one thing from them, I was actually surprised at how fast it shipped and I so far am satisfied with my pruchase but who knows? I am warey enough now to order my exhaust from warpspeed when it's probably the same thing. So if the agenda was to get people not to buy from steak sauce its working on me...lol.

Todd, someone has mentioned that after driving a distance that their filter was actually hot to the touch, which suggests its too hot there even when driving, which I also found unusual and never thought to check mine out. I will tommorrow. I still have all the internal fender plumbing in there and the tip of the cone is almost in the hole that was there for the original filter so I assumed that cold air was constantly washing over the filter, making the engine heat under the hood negligable, but apparently not.



True, I guess the exhaust housing is right there next to the filter radiating heat - I had forgotten about that aspect. Carry on, I look forward to the results! :)

I'm looking more for a comparison than actual numbers. It would be too hard to test actual numbers fairly, due to differences in boost pressure, speed, and many other things. Testing at a stand-still at idle eliminates that, and results in the same settings. Since I'm testing them all in identicle ways, then comparing degrees of ambient of each, I'm going to see which one has the coolest air compared to the others.

I look forward to your findings RC. :cool:

Regardless of testing method, as long as all tests are performed the same, there is nothing wrong with it, and it'll actually give an idea the difference in temps using different filters.

We can't point out how hot it'll get with a load on it, cruising or playing around, but if the findings are hotter at idle, you can bet they will be hotter at just about everything else.

Good job dude.

I look forward to your findings RC. :cool:

Regardless of testing method, as long as all tests are performed the same, there is nothing wrong with it, and it'll actually give an idea the difference in temps using different filters.

We can't point out how hot it'll get with a load on it, cruising or playing around, but if the findings are hotter at idle, you can bet they will be hotter at just about everything else.

Good job dude.

I gave this some more thought and still am not convinced that this test will give an accurate rating of the different intakes. There are many more variables involved when you're driving versus sitting at idle that this test doesn't account for and will throw the results off, large enough that the best could certainly not be the best when driving. The largest variable (I'd bet anyways) would be the fresh air coming through the grill and around the headlights.

Here is what I believe would give a better representation of the different intakes.

Place a temperature sensor between the turbo and filter, in the intake tube, making sure to keep the distance between the sensor and the turbo consistant throughout all the tests.

Let the truck idle for a set time between tests to make sure all the temps are normalized in the engine bay at the bottom of a large hill, leaving enough room to hit 30 mph before accending. Start at the same location each test.

Drive up the hill accelerating from 30-60 and record the max temp. (either floor it or use the cruise control to start, then hold the accel button until 60 is reached), just some way to make sure you're giving it the same load.

Make sure that all the tests are done during the same wind conditions/ambient temp.

I feel that this will give a much better comparison between intakes if you're willing to take the time to do it. The only problem could be rounding up the sensor equipment.

I gave this some more thought and still am not convinced that this test will give an accurate rating of the different intakes. There are many more variables involved when you're driving versus sitting at idle that this test doesn't account for and will throw the results off, large enough that the best could certainly not be the best when driving. The largest variable (I'd bet anyways) would be the fresh air coming through the grill and around the headlights.

Here is what I believe would give a better representation of the different intakes.

Place a temperature sensor between the turbo and filter, in the intake tube, making sure to keep the distance between the sensor and the turbo consistant throughout all the tests.

Let the truck idle for a set time between tests to make sure all the temps are normalized in the engine bay at the bottom of a large hill, leaving enough room to hit 30 mph before accending. Start at the same location each test.

Drive up the hill accelerating from 30-60 and record the max temp. (either floor it or use the cruise control to start, then hold the accel button until 60 is reached), just some way to make sure you're giving it the same load.

Make sure that all the tests are done during the same wind conditions/ambient temp.

I feel that this will give a much better comparison between intakes if you're willing to take the time to do it. The only problem could be rounding up the sensor equipment.

Well then why don't you do it and I'll just stop?

Also I have read many threads about the particular vendor I got my CAI from as well, so it makes me wonder to what extent would someone go to just to bash this particular vendors product. I am new to diesels and new to this forum but apparently steak sauce is not good on your 6.5 if you ask around here....I only baught one thing from them, I was actually surprised at how fast it shipped and I so far am satisfied with my pruchase but who knows? I am warey enough now to order my exhaust from warpspeed when it's probably the same thing. So if the agenda was to get people not to buy from steak sauce its working on me...lol.


SSDieselsupply is NOT Steaksauce...

SSDieselSupply is owned/operated by Walt Lataki - while I don't like his choice of PMD mounting locations, or his underhood air intake, or his WAP glowplugs, and especially his use of UPS for cross-border shipping, he isn't a scam artist, so if you want to order from him, go ahead.

Steaksauce, AKA A1Customs, is owned/operated by David Hanson AKA GMDieseltech AKA James BenYoung AKA Green2500HDx AKA a million different names, and sells scam artist crap he makes in his mom's basement. He's the one who runs around trying to bad-mouth everybody else's products.

Slam the right guy, OK? Walt is an honest businessman, and if I was in the USA, I would buy some things from him, but as long as he ships via UPS, that won't happen anytime soon for us Canadians.

I'll give you something else to think about, boys...

Buy a bunch of meat thermometers, place them at various spots under the hood (including in the air intake) and go pull a heavy trailer up a big hill.

THEN get out and check the temps... careful you don't burn your fingers.

The under-hood air intakes are bad, bad, bad when using these trucks to pull with - and high IATs mean de-fuelling. They also mean high EGTs, which means you should manually defuel.

Underhood ait intakes might work on trucks that never operate under load. Personally, if my truck was never under load, I'd buy an S-10 with a 4-banger.

Well then why don't you do it and I'll just stop?

Hoped you wouldn't take it that way. I just don't want the results from an idle test to be taken as the end all in terms of which intakes work and which don't. It wouldn't take a lot more to put together a reliable test that will present accurate, real world data so the goal of the test can be met.

If you're going to do it, do it right. Thats all I was trying to get at. :o:

Hoped you wouldn't take it that way. I just don't want the results from an idle test to be taken as the end all in terms of which intakes work and which don't. It wouldn't take a lot more to put together a reliable test that will present accurate, real world data so the goal of the test can be met.

If you're going to do it, do it right. Thats all I was trying to get at. :o:
And what I'm getting at is I'm doing a different test. I'm doing an IAT over ambient in identicle conditions. As long as they are all tested the same, it is still going to be even. Even though there are driving variables, it is much easier to do it at idle. And doing it at idle is goint to accuratly tell me what I want to know.

And what I'm getting at is I'm doing a different test. I'm doing an IAT over ambient in identicle conditions. As long as they are all tested the same, it is still going to be even. Even though there are driving variables, it is much easier to do it at idle. And doing it at idle is goint to accuratly tell me what I want to know.

Testing the temps at idle and driving are NOT the same thing. You can't simply test the intakes and say that because at idle xx intake draws the coldest air, it will also do the same thing at speed without testing at speed.

Knowing which pulls the coldest air at idle doesn't matter unless you're concerned about heat soak or something like that.

My point is that you're ignoring variables that come into play when you're driving, variables that could easily change which intake works best. In reality, no one is going to care if xx intake draws colder air at idle, they're going to opt for the one that draws the coldest air when you're driving.

If you're testing for simply knowing which pulls the coldest air at idle, thats fine, but there isn't a practical application for that data. With only a bit more work, you can have data that is definitive in real world applications.

Testing the temps at idle and driving are NOT the same thing. You can't simply test the intakes and say that because at idle xx intake draws the coldest air, it will also do the same thing at speed without testing at speed.

Knowing which pulls the coldest air at idle doesn't matter unless you're concerned about heat soak or something like that.

My point is that you're ignoring variables that come into play when you're driving, variables that could easily change which intake works best. In reality, no one is going to care if xx intake draws colder air at idle, they're going to opt for the one that draws the coldest air when you're driving.

If you're testing for simply knowing which pulls the coldest air at idle, thats fine, but there isn't a practical application for that data. With only a bit more work, you can have data that is definitive in real world applications.

Okay, you go ahead and do a good test then and I'll refrain from wasting any more time in my life. I'm done. This thread can be closed, deleted, whatever.

Okay, you go ahead and do a good test then and I'll refrain from wasting any more time in my life. I'm done. This thread can be closed, deleted, whatever.

Personally i think what your doing is fine. yes there are variables to be accounted for when driving but as long as you do all the tests the same and not one at idle one driving etc. your fine. Yes the readings will be different if you were driving and some intake set ups might function better if you were driving but who cares. your getting a good base line. GO FOR IT!

If that variable is engine load, and air moving in through the grille, around the lights, and then radiant heat off the engine ect, it would be the same for all filters, so I fail to see what you are getting at todd.

I doubt filter A will be better then filter B at idle, where filter B is better WOT then filter A. I just can't see how that would happin.

If anything, doing the test at idle, should eliminate variables so the test would further put the effects on the different filters, seeing as how he's testing the filters against each other. Not only that, not everyone will drive the same as RC.

Although, I really like Jims idea.... Hint hint.

If that variable is engine load, and air moving in through the grille, around the lights, and then radiant heat off the engine ect, it would be the same for all filters, so I fail to see what you are getting at todd.


Air coming through the headlights will effect an open cone filter placed behind them more effectively than it would a closed airbox like stock, depending on what fender routing is done, even moreso if that cone filter has a heat shield. Yes, all of those are independent variables and you want to keep them consistant through all of the tests, but how well each filter responds to those variables is not going to be the same, I can assure you of that.

You can't just ignore those variables and assuming that it will effect each filter the same. Who knows, maybe the intake that has the lowest IAT at idle is the one that will have the lowest at speed. Without testing them, no one will know.

I know it probably seems like I'm just here causing trouble and believe me, that is far from my intent.

To the OP, don't take my critism of your test so defensively. With a couple minor changes it would be fine. :)

i have had a few jobs where the boss would want something done his way. I was on his dime and didnt like it. So here we are about to see where this could go on Rc dime. It would be great to see a diffrence of what worked best. I do understand that you could this many diffrent way that could show some thing diffrent. I also that if he dosnt do it ll the same day driving down the road we may be getting the diffrence from 1 day being 30-40 and the next being -15. The way he says he is going to do it could be done in a garage or any place.
This isnt your dime dont piss him off so that none of us hear how it went. If nothing it is a good base line. That could easly lead to a shoot out between 2 in the real world.
This is Rc dime and he was going to share with us for free. In wy way of looking at it his way sounds great.

by the way I hated that boss.

SSDieselsupply is NOT Steaksauce...



Slam the right guy, OK? Walt is an honest businessman, and if I was in the USA, I would buy some things from him, but as long as he ships via UPS, that won't happen anytime soon for us Canadians.

First of all I didn't slam ANYONE, in fact if you read my posts you will see that I LIKE my intake I got from SS diesel supply, I have no complaints.

I did incorrectly think that steaksauce was ss supply...so thanks for correcting me there, you can see how that honest mistake could be made...I mean who would buy anything for a truck from a comapny called steak sauce.....lol

how bout you all just shut up and wait for the results like the rest of us. Todd, if you don't like the test, deal with it, or do your own. scott, take into account that many of us are friends and are willing to defend them often without thinking or reading first. although jim's usually pretty good(and was very well behaved...i've seen him worse), and lets get BACK ON TOPIC. RC think you can do this soon so i know what to buy for my new truck?

It would be great to see a diffrence of what worked best.

And that is what is important:)

how bout you all just shut up and wait for the results like the rest of us. Todd, if you don't like the test, deal with it, or do your own. scott, take into account that many of us are friends and are willing to defend them often without thinking or reading first. although jim's usually pretty good(and was very well behaved...i've seen him worse), and lets get BACK ON TOPIC. RC think you can do this soon so i know what to buy for my new truck?

Because the results of this test will be meaningless and misleading to others who happen onto this thread.

Since when is the voice of reason (Todd) the bad guy here? He is like me and sees absolutely no value in what RC is currently proposing. He is also rightly pointing out the variables being ignored are what render the results meaningless. You don't design a test to give you a certain outcome, you design a test to answer a question in a realistic, repeatable, and representative manner.

I would really like to know what anyone will get out of this? I can tell you already that the open element filters will perform dramatically worse than any other configuration without even running the test! Other than a custom DIY, there are no other aftermarket Cold Air Intakes for the 6.5 diesel, the volumes are just not there. So your choices are stock flat panel with box, stock round filter (K47) with box, open element 97+ filter, and open element aftermarket.
'
So at idle, your best to worst IAT rise over ambient performers will be:

1. K47 round with box
2. Flat panel with box
3. all other open element designs

Regards,

I personally want to hear what his findings are, they mabey misleading mabey not, but it sounds interesting all the same.

People will evaluate the results anyways and make their own decisions.

Anyone got a tech 2, monitor the IAT sensor while driving with the different boxes if someone wants to try that or pull their boost gauge fitting and silicone an rtd in there.
Put the money where the mouth is, like they said its his dime.

I too would like to see his results. It seems to me that he is trying to eliminate as many variables as possible to create a fair test, which is something I have found many people don't do. A cold air intake at idle would still draw in colder air, and a "hot air" intake at idle will still draw in warmer under hood air. Testing at highway speed could create a "wind chill" effect on the cold air intake (which I always thought was part of the point), however the "hot air" intake would not benefit from the same degree of "chilling" as it is not receiving the quick moving air (although it should still see a decrease in IAT due to the air flowing through the engine compartment). So, I say IF he still wants to do the test and post the results, he should, as it will definitely be a good test in which there are even playing fields. I think more people should be thankful that somebody is going out of their way to try and help out others and add to the wealth of information on this site. Just my opinion.

I too would like to see his results. It seems to me that he is trying to eliminate as many variables as possible to create a fair test, which is something I have found many people don't do. A cold air intake at idle would still draw in colder air, and a "hot air" intake at idle will still draw in warmer under hood air. Testing at highway speed could create a "wind chill" effect on the cold air intake (which I always thought was part of the point), however the "hot air" intake would not benefit from the same degree of "chilling" as it is not receiving the quick moving air (although it should still see a decrease in IAT due to the air flowing through the engine compartment). So, I say IF he still wants to do the test and post the results, he should, as it will definitely be a good test in which there are even playing fields. I think more people should be thankful that somebody is going out of their way to try and help out others and add to the wealth of information on this site. Just my opinion.

I agree completely. Stuff like this is 100% what keeps the community moving forward. I just don't want someone to do something one way when with a little more effort they could have something that produces results that are meaningful in the real world.

One of the main things I wanted to help avoid when I posted originally (and have seen countless times on other forums) is having RC do his test, post the results, then have everyone else run with it saying that because at idle xx intake draws the coldest air, thats the one to get. If you're looking for the coldest air at idle, certainly, it will be the one to get, but it may not be the best when driving.

Another thing to consider regarding intakes is how restrictive it is, so IATs aren't the end all either. One of the thing I've seen used over in BMW land is called a performance box. It uses GPS to measure the time it takes to go between two speeds. I'd consider it a pretty valuable tool when you're looking for comparisons between mods, especially when you have a wind variable that you can't reasonably reproduce on a dyno.

I personally want to hear what his findings are, they mabey misleading mabey not, but it sounds interesting all the same.

People will evaluate the results anyways and make their own decisions.

Anyone got a tech 2, monitor the IAT sensor while driving with the different boxes if someone wants to try that or pull their boost gauge fitting and silicone an rtd in there.
Put the money where the mouth is, like they said its his dime.


Well. Good point. I did this exact test (with an open element air cleaner) about a year ago. If one were to search, you could probably find my results. My point at that time was that the concern of an open element air cleaner drawing "hot" air is completely unfounded. Yes, statically, the open element would show IAT's that were 40 to 50 deg F higher than ambient. Once you started moving though (as slow as 20 MPH), the difference between IAT and ambient shrunk dramatically. At rough 30 MPH, the difference was down to less than 10 deg (F) over ambient. NOW if you factor in the reduced restriction that the open element (open K47 cylindrical filter) provides, that 10 degrees F is NOTHING.

That was enough to convince me that my setup was good to go.

See this thread for details of my results and other discussion... (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=187971&highlight=hot+air+underhood+temperature&page=3)

So, I have already put my money where my mouth is. What about YOU?

Again, who gives a damn about what happens at idle? It is a COMPLETELY MOOT POINT. Why don't we test the IAT's with different systems with the engine off? That would be even EASIER and a MUCH more repeatable test? And, of course, at least as informative.

Please start brain before placing mouth into gear...

Regards,

Enough guys. The OP requested that this be closed.