I was all stoked to get a used 01 or 02 Dmax until reading these forums. Now I’m not so sure. There appears to be more issues with the diesel than a gasser. I want the diesel, but it has to be at least a break-even proposition before I’ll pay more up front and then have to deal with extra fuel filters and additives and checking the crankcase for fuel, etc. There is something to be said for being able to pull into any gas station and fill up with out worrying about if the gas is good.

Anyway, I’ve searched and found plenty of posts comparing fuel mileage/costs, but fuel is only one part of the overall operating expenses. Are there any other posts that compare all the operating expenses or at least compare the recommended maintenance costs in detail?

Imho to make an accurate comparison between diesel and gas trucks, all the costs required to operate the trucks to some given amount of miles have to be factored in and compared. That includes purchase price, any differences in title, registration fees and /or insurance costs (I would think the insurance would be slightly higher for the diesel since it has a higher book value), regular maintenance, any deductibles for warranty repairs, costs for typical out of warranty repairs, and any other expenses that are part of operating the trucks to a given mileage. If an aftermarket diesel fuel filter and fuel additives are mandatory, then those need to be factored in too. To get really anal, even things like wearing out components faster, like say the front tires from the extra engine weight of a diesel, affects the operating cost analysis.

I am planning to get a dmax or 8.1 soon. I figure to keep the truck till its not worth fixing anymore, hopefully that will be 200k or more. I’ll probably tow for 5 to 8 hours once a month or so pulling about 8,500lbs. I like the diesel, but does it really cost any less in the long run? <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

A gasser would probably be fine for your position. 8,500 lbs @ 8 hours a month is not worth getting a diesel. Diesels are built to work and work hard.

I, on the other hand need a diesel because a gasser could not safely pull 15,000 lb fifth wheel all the time. Even if the gasser could get up a mountain side, without an exhaust brake which only a diesel can have, going down the mountain is very unsafe without having an exhaust brake. Now after having an exhaust brake, I would not go without when pulling a heavy trailer.

The "problems" you read are a select number of people. I have had a good experience owning a diesel. I hope to never go back to a gasser.
Ted

I would go for the diesel, you will double the MPG whether solo, towing or in city traffic. Getting your truck used, should save you money, and theres no telling how many miles you will get out of it. And running around town, you'll be happy with the MPG over the 8.1.

Our insurance was cheaper than the Dodge Dakota we had at the time. All DMV fees were the same for a truck. We use the stock type fuel filter, and as for additive, it's ~$12/ gallon at Walmart for what we use. This covers 100 gallons. We use it more for anti-gelling.

We plan on having this truck for a long time, and will be getting one for me in the future.

honestly i think gettting a diesel truck was one of the worst mistakes ive made, i dont know if its just my truck or whatever. But after all of the bad customer service high maintenance and fuel costs its really not worth it. Get the 496 gasser youll spend alot more time thinking about where your going rather than are you going to get there. Im frustrated with my truck i guess all of the easy performance mods suckered me in.

I owned a '99 GMC with the Vortec 7400 prior to buying the truck in my signature. I've driven the same roads, with the same driving habits and pulled the same fifth wheel for several trips with both trucks. My empty mileage around town with the big block was 11-13 and it's 16-18 with the diesel. My empty mileage on the highway was 14-15 with the big block and 20-21 with the diesel. My mileage towing was 6-8 with the big block and 10-12+ with the diesel. That's about 1½ times better mileage under ALL conditions, which will eventually offset the higher upfront cost of the diesel engine (I put about 25K miles on my truck yearly, so it has come close already).

Maintenance costs have not been a problem for me. I pay about $5 more for oil changes with the diesel than what I did with the big block. However, since the recommended change interval is higher with the diesel, my yearly costs for oil changes has actually decreased. You do have the higher costs for fuel filters, but at my yearly mileage, it is still less than what I save in oil change costs. Air filter, transmission fluid/filter, etc... are a wash with either engine, so I have found the diesel to actually be less expensive to maintain. If there were a catastrophic engine failure, then the diesel would almost certainly cost more to repair. However, the factory warranty with the diesel is much longer, so that's somewhat of a wash.

Remember that any problems you read about on a forum such as this are going to be out of proportion to what the general population sees. A great many people are driving these trucks with no problems, so they don't tend to go to the web looking for answers and information. This isn't to say that you or I wouldn't have problems with the Duramax, but I'm at 85K, have not had any engine problems and it runs stronger now than when new.

Good luck on whichever route you go!

I looked for two years at both the diesels and the gassers. I have a small farm (as a hobby) and I'm in need of a new truck to do farming chores as well as playing chores. My current ride is a 1989 Chevy Suburban 4x4 with the good ol' 350 engine. It is about to roll over 200k miles. The only thing done to it other than normal maintenance was a rebuilt tranny @ 152k, water pump @ 123k, and an alternator at 114k. The engine is tired and if it weren't for the cancer (rust) that has started, I would try to save her.

I take great care of my vehicles and longevity has been my reward. My Suburban on a good day would get 12 to 14 mpg highway, 9 to 10 mpg towing or city driving. I'm sure the high mileage has allot to do with the poor mpgs, but I can't recall it being much better. Had this been a newer modern diesel, the savings on fuel alone would have covered the initial extra cost, and then some. Now that I'm older and have multiple vehicles to drive, I can keep my new ride off the heavy salted Maryland roads! It will be nice to have a truck that is not tired at 200k miles and rust free!

You will have to ask yourself what you want in a truck. If longevity and towing is in your future, you may want to go with the diesel. If it is a short term ownership or little towing, you will probably not be happy with with it and be better off with the 8.1 gas. Test drive them both... again and again, then make your descision. Take your time and be happy with the choice you've made.

For me, my tags and insurance are cheaper. Why??? I don't know! And to top it off, Maryland wants to pass a "Heavy SUV" tax to cover road repairs... Yeah, right! Any excuse to pry open your wallet!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/blahblah.gif

I have 3 Chevrolets a 2002 Diesel,2003 Suburban and 2004 Avalanche. The silverado is the 1st diesel I've owned and I couldn't be happier with it. I have a 35 foot camper to pull around and I wouldn't go ant other way then a diesel. I've been reading the posts about injector problems and was a little concered but I'm over 50k with no problems at all. I've used Standyne performance formula since about 10k might have been less and I always get fuel at the same station. For the small amount of towing you do I think either way would be fine but I'll never be without one Duramax in the garage.

owned a 02 496 and now have an 04 Dmax both with like styles and options. I don't ever see myself going back to a gasser. Lower operating cost, lower annual DMV registration, better MPG, and better towing torque in the Az hills. I'm sold on a diesel, be it my first, but I don't think it will be my last.

cmc

this is my first diesel and would do it againi have 65000 miles and no problems i get 16 city and 18-19 highway and i have a heavy foot. my friend has a 6.0 gas chevy and hes luky to get 12 highway. pulling our campers mine 10000 pounds his 7500 going up hills i don't even shift and he still can't keep up. he has 410 gears mine372 also efect gas milage

I have a 2004 Duramax and love it. I needed a truck that would tow my trailer smoothly and still get good fuel milage. I had a 2001 Chevrolet 1500 4.8 and it struggled with my travel trailer ( 27Ft.) The numbers showed that it would pull it no problem, but take it out and see what happens. After a few trips I decided that I needed more power and milage. The Duramax fit the bill for me. It would pull anything I wanted to pull and do it at reasonable fuel milage. ;)

If you must tow heavy, then the cost of operating the right truck for the job is just part of the deal.

:rant:
There are few things that anoy me as much as getting off the road after 12-14 hours of driving and having to listen to a crabby 70-something $1,260.000.00 Prevost owner cry about the price of diesel and poor fuel mileage while I'm trying to level my Fiver. They are always on their 3rd martini, which distorts their reality into believing that everyone else gives a sh|t about their matching gold plated sh|ters and jecuzis and traveling expenses, when their MH costs more to own and operate than my office building!

My advice, if you're concerned about Dsl vs Gas, get the truck you are going to be happy with THEN select a trailer that is within its posted capacities.

RF

I've had a number of diesels and in my opinion many diesel lovers run up unnecessary costs because they just love "doing something else" to their vehicles! I spend more on motor oil, but very little on spark plugs! I use a standard diesel rated oil that I buy in two gallon containers at Walmart! (You can't be serious! Get over it! It's an diesel engine, not the space shuttle!) I change the oil at 4k around town and 6k on cross country trips! 18 wheeler driver's tell me I'm changing it too often, but that's me! I drain and change synthetic in the trans. regularly! Guess what? It purrs like a kitten and I've never had a problem with years of cross country use!

As to mileage, I have found that I've used about 55% the diesel fuel as compared to gasoline pulling the same rigs! Diesels are so much nicer for heavy towing! The biggest minor drawback to a diesel is that it's harder to get as nice "around town ride" due to heavier engines and transmissions!

Enjoy a diesel and give it sensible, regular service, don't obsess about it and treat like a delicate hot house flower!

My $.02 -

Although I have an LLY, I can relate to your having trouble making a decision. When I ordered my truck I originally ordered it as a 6.0 gasser. My only option was to get the 4:10 rear end. I was really unsettled about that low of a ratio because I don't tow often and I don't like the higher RPMs when cruising (I had a 1998 1500 with a 3:42). I tossed around the diesel but was afraid of it at first as well as the upfront cost. Started asking questions to 2500HD owners. Noone had anything bad to say about the diesels and many complained about the gassers MPG. I borrowed someones 2500HD 6.0 gasser to do a 700 mile unloaded trip and HATED the 13 MPG's I got. At the last minute I changed my truck order to the diesel. After 10K miles I think I made the right decision, even though I've only towed with it twice so far. Recently I drove that same gasser that I borrowed and all I can say is - What a difference! I also traveled the same 350 mile trip with the gasser following me and he used alot more fuel than I did.

The way I see it is, even if gas and diesel were the same price, it will take me about 7 years to pay off the initial upfront costs of the engine. In the end I will have about broke even but will have had the extra benefits of a diesel's performance the entire time. I'm going for longevity because I always say I'm going to keep my new truck forever - but around 8 years later the gasser motors are getting tired and I end up buying a new one. Hoping I can run the diesel forever.

As far as maintenance costs: I don't see much of a difference other than the fuel filter cost ($15) every 12 K. Even though it takes more oil, you don't need to change it as often as a gasser (some will argue this point :))

Insurance / registration costs etc are the same in my case.

My only concern is that there could be an extra expense for a major component failure. I'm going easy on any mods and only do those that I think will provide some longevity (although I sure would like to run someothing higher than the 40HP tune :)), but I won't.

80k Today And Its Been The Best Damn Truck I Ever Seen! I Hav'nt Even Put A Set Of Brakes On It Yet. Every 10k Miles I Will Dump A Bottle Of 7 Dollar Dello Injector Cleaner And She Is Good To Go. Every 10 To 15k I Will Take 5 Min And Put On A 15 Dollar Fuel Filter And Thats It.

I love my duramax. I wouldn't have a gasser. That said, is it the right choice from an economic standpoint? I don't think so. If you want to have that great low end pull and acceleration, plus the cool factor of a diesel go for it. If you want to get decent gas mileage on a day to day basis, go for the diesel if you can (and want to) pay the extra amount for it. Plus, the resale value will be better when you go to get rid of it. If you don't care so much about those things, get a gasser. Just don't kid yourself that spending the extra money is some great value, you'll eventually be dissapointed if you do. JMHO.

I see very little diffference in the cost of maintaining diesel versus gasoline especially if you do your own servicing and use good (non advertised) inexpensive oils! Most extra costs of diesel owners are self inflicted wounds! I know that many will disagree, but changing fuel filters too often like every 15k is wasted money (unless you've bought bad fuel)! I've gone three times that long with no problems or change in performance! Letting commercial outfits charge big fees just because it's a diesel is a joke! Remember if you are one of those who obsesses about treating your diesel engine like a hot house flower, you'd be doing that with a gasoline engine too! You'd be facing replacing lots of ignition components someday (probably unneccessarily!) I just changed the original spark plugs on my Toyota Tundra V-8 at 70k miles, no noticible difference!

Service companies make money when you buy their service (often) and after market suppliers of bolt on magic need to create a demand in your mind! "Remember when you sell fishing lures, to make big money your fishing lure has to catch fishermen, not necessarily fish!" Hobbies are big money for those who sell to the hobbiest!

I have to agree with Dave in that I don't think the cost of ownership is really that much different. I get in my truck and drive it. Every 7500 it gets new synthetic oil (I know, probably too often for synthetic-but I would probably do the same with a gasser) and an oil filter. Every 15k it gets a new fuel filter. That is about it. Everything else (rear-end, front diff., tranny) cost a bit for new fluids, but would be exactly the same with an 8.1L. About the only complaint I could see at all is fuel availability (and quality) at times, but as long as you don't try to push it, you can find fuel regularly enough on major highways. Mine was my first diesel and I don't plan on ever owning another gasser (well, maybe a GTO, but that would be for recreation).

I was in the same situation about 18 months back- looking for a fresher truck and comparing apples to apples on operating costs. Having had a couple real ugly experiences with older type diesels (IH 6.9 and GM 6.2) I was not inclined to buy one. I wanted no part of the noise, stench, high maintenance costs. etc. So one day one of my buddies called me up to come see his new Duramax and suggested I take it for a spin. OK, expensive test drive for me as now I wanted one. Loved the power, loved the truck, impressed by the mileage he was getting...when you want something it is not hard to come up with a zillion reasons why but I tried to keep emotions out of the picture.

I spoke with a fellow who was on his third Duramax (new one every year at about 90,000 miles in his business) who towed 15-17,000 lbs over BC mountain passes with his trucks and had experienced absolutely zero serious problems. I saw the warranty history on a 2003 he had just traded in and the only expense of note was for a cruise control module. I spoke with the two local dealers and they both indicated they had seen a couple very high mileage units and were not seeing any injector problems of note- other than one logger who had used contaminated fuel from his logging equipment fuel tank (covered by warranty).

I found a clean straight 2002 crew cab D/A long bed with about 30k miles and bouGht it a year ago. I've put another 20k on it and only problem to date was a drip from the drive shaft seal in the transfer case- happily fixed under warranty at no cost to me. Mileage is at least 50% better than my old truck and with the EDGE/ATTITUDE combo the truck is a hoot to drive. Well OK, I am having a problem with rear tire wear....

Remember GM has cranked out hundreds of thousands of these trucks. You aren't seeing them littering the sides of the highways. You don't need any special filters or fuel additives to keep your warranty valid. This forum is the premier Duramax forum on the web and so you will see plenty of griping about what has gone wrong here. What you don't see are a whole lot more happy owners that are not having any problems.

I doubt you'd ever regret going with the Duramax

tw, I guess you do understand this is the Diesel Place with over 10k Duramax owners. You either believe in the Duramax or you don't. That is fine if you don't. There is no comparing gassers to diesels either on paper or out on the road. I compare mine out on the road towing and a little short run drag racing with other diesels. I spent three months trying to decide whether I wanted a big block or a diesel. I absolutely could not get past the p*ss poor mileage. I hope lightning strikes me dead if I ever even consider another gasser. There is an on going thread over on the RV.net forum on this topic. There are over 500 post so far. You might want to check it out. Later! Frank

The reason I went diesel other than the fact I WANTED IT is this: I had an 00 ext cab LB silverado 1/2ton with the 5.3. It got me on average around 18. Great truck but a 3 door ext cab and with(back then) 14, 12 and newborn the ext cab wasn't cutting it and the older kids complained about not having real windows. So I still needed a pickup for hauling from time to time, but wanted a crew cab for piece of mind. In 03 the 1500HD was available with the 6.0 only and 4.10 rear end. I saw going from 18 to 14 on average. Didn't like that idea, the HD diesel would get me at least the same as my 5.3 gasser(actually a little better so far). It's not so much the monthly payment I hate, but take your payment and add high operating costs(and fuel will always be your highest ownership cost no matter gas or diesel) with a 6.0/4.10 combo. On my 03 the blue book is roughly 7k higher than an 03 gasser same package so I'm breaking even.

Than again since then, GM now offers a 1500 Crew Cab(non HD) that you can get with a 5.3. I would've had seriously considered that were it available back then. Back then it was clear, now it'd be a harder choice.

My bottom line was yes it's overkill(towing) for what I really need, but should my needs change or grow it's cheaper to have to much up front, than not enough down the road.

Thanks for the responses. I’ll go diesel if I can find used 01 or 02 in the crew cab short box 4x4 for less than $25k. They are hard to find, around here anyway.
:rant: removed.
Probably just end up with a 8.1 because they seem to be more available and are more affordable. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Good luck tdwtb, keep looking- it took me about 6 months to find a truck I was happy with. Too bad- there are lots of nice used crew cab short beds in this area but that really doesn't help you too much. I had a hard time finding a long bed in nice shape as they tend to be used more as work horses and less as toys/ family haulers.

Don't give up on the Dmax- you won't be happy pouring fuel into a big block gasser, especially if you are working it. There is a reason there are lots of used 8.1 gassers available....

I got mine just in time for our move to Florida from Ohio. Got the right discounts and rebates, which made the diesel affordable. That plus the fact that our move coincided with diesel prices being 10-30 cents a gallon cheaper than regular during the time I made the 5 trips towing a 4 horse gooseneck, 2 horse bumper pull, Airstream travel trailer and flatbed equipment trailer loaded with 8500# John Deere tractor down South.
No problems, just been to the dealer once for tailgate straps. 27K and counting.

Going to get a truck this week, but still undecided about the Dmax. Looks like about 5 grand more for a used Dmax vs an 8.1. The biggest concern is the engine’s longevity. I read elsewhere on these forums that the Dmax was designed for 200k miles, same as the gasser? Is that true?

My neighbor just picked up an '02 extended cab long bed LT 4x4 with 80K miles for $23k.

I paid about $28k US equivalent for my 02 exactly one year ago today. Chev LS trim, 4X4, CC, D/A, LWB, new rubber, 33000 miles, condition:about as nice as used vehicles get. I spoke yesterday with a friend about his fuel mileage with the 6.0 l gas engine in the same truck- I sure am glad I got the diesel. Typically I get about 40% better mileage, and the difference would be more with an 8.1. Keep looking for that Dmax!

To tdwtb

Both Dodge and GM have a good engine! The difference in my mind was the GMC improvements such as 4x4 Independent frt suspension, 4 wheel dic brakes and the Allison transmission! Frankly none of them have the quality control of my Toyota Tundra, but diesels have so many advantages for pulling weight!! I usually use about 55% of what the same size gas motor would use with less problems!


Dave from Apple Valley