I just installed KB's kit along with the boost tube a couple days ago. And it's a quality kit. It looks completly stock. I have been fighting this overheating problem for a long time and I'm anxious to see what this will do. I will be towing again this month to the dunes and I should get a pretty good idea what it's going to do. I will keep you all posted.

Staff Edit: Removed non-supporting vendor information.

Sorry everyone I totally screwed up the links. But I think you should be able to link to it.

If you have been fighting a overheating condition for a long time why not just install a V2? The new intake will not fix your overheating, just improve airflow a bit.

Griz

If you have been fighting a overheating condition for a long time why not just install a V2? The new intake will not fix your overheating, just improve airflow a bit.

Griz+1

Well, well... someone finally posted up KillerBee's Induction Overhaul Kit. This is an alternative to the mods we've been discussing over in the "Seen This Yet II" thread. GM believes the fix to the overheating problem lies in the intake - in fact there's a TSB for replacing the current LLY intake up to but not including the turbo mouthpiece. The problem is they didn't take the fix far enough. If they had... it would have been interesting to see where it would have taken them.

KillerBee is convinced that the complete fix lies in the intake and turbo mp - this is an over-simplification of his solution, so I will not speak for him. I have no experience or knowledge of KB's system, though I have read through his induction study.

There's no doubt that the V2 takes a completely different approach - one that is proven to be truly effective. However, we need to be careful to not begin throwing rocks at one or the other; they both offer useful solutions... though perhaps not to exactly the same problem.

I for one am glad to see KillerBee back on the Diesel Place. That's my $0.02...

Here we go again :rolleyes:

:D In all fairness I was not trying to restart the never ending overheating war, just letting bsanders know that if he has an 04 that has been overheating, any intake air fix is not going to cure it. The V2 is a proven fix, but he could try Kb's EOC. His choice. I'm not pushing anyone's product, just informing that Air intake is not the cure all fix.

Griz
:D

Flash back.....Flash back! :drinking::boxing:

Time to grab a 6 pack and pull up a chair.......

Well I hope this isn't going to be here we go again thread. I started this thread to give a honest opinion about this product. And I will as soon as I get up some big grades in 115 degree weather towing a big ass trailer. I have been a part of this overheating mess since the begining and I know what works and what doesn't. I do have KB's TDEOC and it has kept me from puking coolent on the side of the road. However I would like my truck to run cooler with lower EGT's. This is why I went with his kit. It should take a nice chunk of heat out of the equation. I have considered the V2 but I have heard that it's not the complete fix either . I think TX has a great product and I'm not bashing him. From the limited corrispondince Iv'e had with him he has been helpful and nice. I hope everyone has a nice X-MAS!!!

Merry Christmas to you...can I have 1/2 of that 115* weather brought to Michigan? Please...?:D

:funnypost

I cannot knock KB or TX Christophers work. BOTH of them seem to be looking for an alternative to the problem that the LLY owners have. TX C's solution will not work for the medium duty folks....so, I always have an eye out for anything that will help my situation of OH in the mountains, towing heavy.

I honestly believe that the back pressure of the stock turbo creates too much back pressure, which in turn, creates a overheating problem. People who do not tow in those situations, will not experience the same problems as the rest of us have.

That being said, I am looking at better induction via a better turbo...AVNT 3794...as an example....or ANY way to lessen the backpressure....which I personally believe is the problem that I need to deal with.

The intake has been shown to be a bottle neck...which cannot be good. If KB can produce a better fix, and it looks like he has, he should not be trashed. After all, aren't we all after the better good of the diesel community???

My opinion only...I am sure others will disagree.

Well, well... someone finally posted up KillerBee's Induction Overhaul Kit. This is an alternative to the mods we've been discussing over in the "Seen This Yet II" thread. GM believes the fix to the overheating problem lies in the intake - in fact there's a TSB for replacing the current LLY intake up to but not including the turbo mouthpiece. The problem is they didn't take the fix far enough. If they had... it would have been interesting to see where it would have taken them.

KillerBee is convinced that the complete fix lies in the intake and turbo mp - this is an over-simplification of his solution, so I will not speak for him. I have no experience or knowledge of KB's system, though I have read through his induction study.

There's no doubt that the V2 takes a completely different approach - one that is proven to be truly effective. However, we need to be careful to not begin throwing rocks at one or the other; they both offer useful solutions... though perhaps not to exactly the same problem.

I for one am glad to see KillerBee back on the Diesel Place. That's my $0.02...

I have both! KB's Induction Overhaul Kit AND TxC's V2+Fan and I'm a happy camper! That, AND TxC's dual electric fans = FAN DAMN.

KB's kit was easy to install and you can really feel the performance difference. It's like running a tune, but without adding fuel!
My truck runs cool and STRONG!

Flash back.....Flash back! :drinking::boxing:

sounds like :stirthepo

Ok so where can I get one and how much does it cost? Even if I don't have the overheating problem I did some reading on it and it seems like a great mod! How different is it from the LBZ mouth piece?

Ok so where can I get one and how much does it cost? Even if I don't have the overheating problem I did some reading on it and it seems like a great mod! How different is it from the LBZ mouth piece?

KB's kit is simply an LBZ mouthpiece with modified LLY ducting to fit the larger mouthpiece. Uses your stock airbox. Works great. PM me for more info.

sounds like :stirthepo

No, just stating fact. You know what happens when this starts. ;)

I wish I had prepared better last month. I was in Orange County working for a few days the week of Thanksgiving. I would have like to have seen your set up.

No, just stating fact. You know what happens when this starts. ;)

I wish I had prepared better last month. I was in Orange County working for a few days the week of Thanksgiving. I would have like to have seen your set up.

Well, if you get back out here, let me know. I didn't realize you were here.

I am not endorsing any product I just want to offer facts as I know them.

I installed the Induction Overhaul kit from KB. My turbo lag is almost completely gone and I am getting better mileage. I don't have my pyro installed yet so I can't offer anything in the egt dept. When my wife who doesn't know anything nor does she care about any mods calls me on the way to Vegas in the truck and asks what I did to it then you know it made a difference

In my opinion it was worth the money I spent on it for mpg and the almost complete loss of turbo lag.

I would like to know more about the V-2 thing and what that is all about. Is it a fan deal or what?

The v2 is a complete bolt on secondary radiator system. I was the original tester and it definitely worked as advertised for me. :thumb:

Ok so where can I get one and how much does it cost? Even if I don't have the overheating problem I did some reading on it and it seems like a great mod! How different is it from the LBZ mouth piece?

x2....and can we get some pictures please..

Killer bee has been un-banned and he also shows up as a limited vendor again, although he hasn't been back on yet.

You can PM him here;
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/member.php?u=3334

I am running killer bee's induction kit and it makes as much power as we need to tow a combined 22920 lbs easily.
chevman

BANNED??? why... i've heard alot of people have been banned from this site.. whats the deal?? in many diesel circles there's alot to be said about dp and its not good.. i for one just standby and listen, always opened minded.

KB from some of the stuff I've read him post, and his research is really an asset to any site.. why would you ban him especially from being a vender.. makes no business sense at all..

BANNED??? why... i've heard alot of people have been banned from this site.. whats the deal?? in many diesel circles there's alot to be said about dp and its not good.. i for one just standby and listen, always opened minded.

KB from some of the stuff I've read him post, and his research is really an asset to any site.. why would you ban him especially from being a vender.. makes no business sense at all..

Sometimes, kids in the sandbox don't play well together. :eek: :D

BANNED??? why... i've heard alot of people have been banned from this site.. whats the deal?? in many diesel circles there's alot to be said about dp and its not good.. i for one just standby and listen, always opened minded.

KB from some of the stuff I've read him post, and his research is really an asset to any site.. why would you ban him especially from being a vender.. makes no business sense at all..

do you realize he's been unbanned? Rick is saying that the new staff is letting bygones be bygones, and he's been allowed back. Short story is he violated forum rules, and now the new staff is wiping the slate clean and he's allowed back. He's not banned, anymore.

Yep.

It's now totally up to him if he wants to resume here under his old name or not.

Well, well... someone finally posted up KillerBee's Induction Overhaul Kit.

The original "Seen This Yet" thread was specifically about KB's induction kit:

7/8/08:
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=253802

Prior to the kit, member Kylant fitted a LBZ mouth piece and intake to a LLY:

12/22/06:
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123809


;)

The original "Seen This Yet" thread was specifically about KB's induction kit:

7/8/08:
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=253802

Prior to the kit, member Kylant fitted a LBZ mouth piece and intake to a LLY:

12/22/06:
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123809


;)

Yep - knew all that. It's only recently though that we could actually discuss KB's stuff without potentially crossing the line what with KB being banned. Thankfully, he's now reinstated and he's a limited vendor.

Sometimes, kids in the sandbox don't play well together. :eek: :D

:funnypost:lol:

http://members.cox.net/beekiller/GMC%20Light%20Duty/Duramax%20Performance%20Catalog.pdf

http://members.cox.net/td-eoc/INDUCTION-THERMAL%20FEEDBACK%20PRIMER.doc



Here are the links to KB's stuff.

I'll I have to say to people who wern't around in 2004/05 is don't buy into all the mumbo jumbo hype people. If you want an LBZ or Kodiak MP just buy it and assemble your self. Same Damn thing as killer bee's induction kit minus the cost. Flame suit on.:coolnana:FM.

I'll I have to say to people who wern't around in 2004/05 is don't buy into all the mumbo jumbo hype people. If you want an LBZ or Kodiak MP just buy it and assemble your self. Same Damn thing as killer bee's induction kit minus the cost. Flame suit on.:coolnana:FM.

For what its worth, I ordered my Induction kit from KillerBee today.

Sure I could have bought the LBZ mouth piece and spent my time fitting it, searching around for the extra fittings and clamps, etc. I figure my time is worth something to me also.

For what its worth, I ordered my Induction kit from KillerBee today.

Sure I could have bought the LBZ mouth piece and spent my time fitting it, searching around for the extra fittings and clamps, etc. I figure my time is worth something to me also.

Dang, your time must be worth a ton! 4Warned and I had mine on in about 20 minutes. Easy job. Disassemble, cut the intake tube down, reassemble with new turbo mouthpiece.

Dang, your time must be worth a ton! 4Warned and I had mine on in about 20 minutes. Easy job. Disassemble, cut the intake tube down, reassemble with new turbo mouthpiece.

KB's kit, once installed, looks factory. You can tell he spent time engineering the length, bends, etc. No unusual bends or kinks in the ductwork, etc. That's got to be worth quite a bit alone.

KB's kit, once installed, looks factory. You can tell he spent time engineering the length, bends, etc. No unusual bends or kinks in the ductwork, etc. That's got to be worth quite a bit alone.

Huh! :eek: engineering? He did the same Damn thing MAX Attitude and all the rest of us have. Disassemble, cut the intake tube down, reassemble with new turbo mouthpiece. Done in 20min. Only difference is what clamps and silicone coupler you chose to spend 2min to order on line. There is no engineering or special parts to KB's kit. Like I've said before MUMBO JUMBO and extra cost. Besides unless you live in AZ and drive the truck to KB's house for him to install you still have to do it yourself in your own driveway. You KB lovers kill me.

Griz

KB's kit was easy to install and you can really feel the performance difference. It's like running a tune, but without adding fuel!
My truck runs cool and STRONG!

That is the point, and the simple truth. Whatever you think of me, there is no trickery involved here, just factual improvement in performance, both torque and thermal. It allows chemical energy (fuel) that is being converted to heat, to now be converted to torque instead...with several other incidental benefits. The research I did on this should be enough to satisfy most skeptics. If it is not, then the 100% refund should. No takers on that yet.

I encourage anyone who is really interested in this to avoid stirring the pot, and do your own investigation on the merit of elimination Thermal Feedback Loops, not only in the LLY, but other vehicles you may have. This is not simply an "airflow improvement". That description, while true, is very oversimplified and does not address why this improvement is so important to workload and thermal capacity.

The Kodiak/Topkick also has the same issue through 05, and not coincidentally, the same fix. I have not investigated later year groups and I have not tested these "improved" vehicles, but testimony from those operators using this, is consistent with the light duty crowd, so far.

Well Well, look who's posting again. Welcome back KB:stirthepo

KB now that your posting again can you answer the question that people are discussing on the Seen This Yet II thread. You were the one who discovered the LBZ or Kodiak MP improved airflow. I personally thank you for that but don't care to here all the Thermal Feedback Loops chemical energy Mumbo Jumbo. Do you have Dyno results to show the different torque and horse power curves compared the the stock LLY MP?

Griz

No, I don't. Sorry. Someone by now has seen fit to do this. The actual answer varies because of the inherrent decay of power over time, with these kinds of defects in the induction system. I could go on, but it would be all speculative. The short answer is...no.

We did actual grade experiments, and the results were good as far as fan time, ECT control, turbo vane position under equal loads...that kind of mumbo jumbo.

See people....I rest my case....MOMBO JUMBO. 26 pages of research and his wis bang thermal feedback primer and he doesn't know what it does to torque and horsepower for the motor he wrote it about. You too can have all this for the small price of only.....

Griz

Did he make torque and HP claims I didn't see?

I'd like to see some of the old flames put to rest. I'd like to prove that we can ALL finally co-exist here. I'm not saying you shouldn't question someone's claims, I'd just like to see it done for all the right reasons and with a little "finesse". :)

Did he make torque and HP claims I didn't see?

I'd like to see some of the old flames put to rest. I'd like to prove that we can ALL finally co-exist here. I'm not saying you shouldn't question someone's claims, I'd just like to see it done for all the right reasons and with a little "finesse". :)


Ok Rick, I'm on board with that.

Griz

Thanks.:thumb:

No, I don't. Sorry. Someone by now has seen fit to do this. The actual answer varies because of the inherrent decay of power over time, with these kinds of defects in the induction system. I could go on, but it would be all speculative. The short answer is...no.

We did actual grade experiments, and the results were good as far as fan time, ECT control, turbo vane position under equal loads...that kind of mumbo jumbo.

Oh my God ! :eek: I hope MY induction system isn't decaying of power over time.

OK guys, I cannot sit by any longer and watch this.

I find it rather childish that some people will bash, second guess, and mock someone else's work and research.

I look at it in the aspect that if anyone has the knowldege, ambition, and marketing skills to research, design and sell a product, then I applaud them for being successful.

I have known many people that spend their whole lives dragging people down, and for what reason? Because of their own insecurity. Usually since these people are failures, they feel everyone else should fail also.

Remember the old saying, "If you can't say something nice about a person, don't say anything at all".

Well spoken......

OK guys, I cannot sit by any longer and watch this.

I find it rather childish that some people will bash, second guess, and mock someone else's work and research.

I look at it in the aspect that if anyone has the knowldege, ambition, and marketing skills to research, design and sell a product, then I applaud them for being successful.

I have known many people that spend their whole lives dragging people down, and for what reason? Because of their own insecurity. Usually since these people are failures, they feel everyone else should fail also.

Remember the old saying, "If you can't say something nice about a person, don't say anything at all".

Agreed

OK guys, I cannot sit by any longer and watch this.

I find it rather childish that some people will bash, second guess, and mock someone else's work and research.

I look at it in the aspect that if anyone has the knowldege, ambition, and marketing skills to research, design and sell a product, then I applaud them for being successful.

I have known many people that spend their whole lives dragging people down, and for what reason? Because of their own insecurity. Usually since these people are failures, they feel everyone else should fail also.

Remember the old saying, "If you can't say something nice about a person, don't say anything at all".

Well Said!

Where the heck is TXC in all of this????????????????????????????????????

OK guys, I cannot sit by any longer and watch this.

I find it rather childish that some people will bash, second guess, and mock someone else's work and research.

I look at it in the aspect that if anyone has the knowldege, ambition, and marketing skills to research, design and sell a product, then I applaud them for being successful.

I have known many people that spend their whole lives dragging people down, and for what reason? Because of their own insecurity. Usually since these people are failures, they feel everyone else should fail also.

Remember the old saying, "If you can't say something nice about a person, don't say anything at all".

X 7 ... talking to some is like clapping with one hand..

Just stopped by KB's house and added his induction overhaul kit as one of my mods. It looks clean and love the performance difference. Kinda funny, it almost feels like I am driving my buddy's LBZ.

OK guys, I cannot sit by any longer and watch this.

I find it rather childish that some people will bash, second guess, and mock someone else's work and research.

I look at it in the aspect that if anyone has the knowldege, ambition, and marketing skills to research, design and sell a product, then I applaud them for being successful.

I have known many people that spend their whole lives dragging people down, and for what reason? Because of their own insecurity. Usually since these people are failures, they feel everyone else should fail also.

Remember the old saying, "If you can't say something nice about a person, don't say anything at all".


X8!

All the old timers just need to RELAX and get over them selfs.... if you dont like what he has to say TURN the chanel! I see that all you old timers get all grumpy and pissy over girls picts and the complan to the moderators... but you ALWAYS say "if you dont like it then turn the chanel" well TURN THE chanel!

We all are happy that he has done the mod and now we are all copying it! I like the fact that we have some good people on here being able to help ALL of us out! :)

I purchased KB's kit and have been very impressed with the difference in performance. The quality of the kit and dealing with KB were all first rate. I am with the previous poster who valued ordering a pre-assembled kit.

I personally don't get into all of the engineer speak of KB. I am glad he is into it though, because he came across a fantastic mod for my LLY.

-Keith

Just stopped by KB's house and added his induction overhaul kit as one of my mods. It looks clean and love the performance difference. Kinda funny, it almost feels like I am driving my buddy's LBZ.

My thoughts exactly. Mine feels like my cousins LBZ now.

X8!

All the old timers just need to RELAX and get over them selfs.... if you dont like what he has to say TURN the chanel! I see that all you old timers get all grumpy and pissy over girls picts and the complan to the moderators... but you ALWAYS say "if you dont like it then turn the chanel" well TURN THE chanel!

We all are happy that he has done the mod and now we are all copying it! I like the fact that we have some good people on here being able to help ALL of us out! :)

I would not say this is all the old timers, I think there is an equal number of the younger generation doing the same thing.

What everyone needs to realize is that people all like different things.

"Just because you like something that I don't, doesn't mean its bad, its just a difference of likes or opinions".

Imagine what this world would be like if everyone liked the same things. We would all still be driving the Ford model A.

Huh! :eek: engineering? He did the same Damn thing MAX Attitude and all the rest of us have. Disassemble, cut the intake tube down, reassemble with new turbo mouthpiece. Done in 20min. Only difference is what clamps and silicone coupler you chose to spend 2min to order on line. There is no engineering or special parts to KB's kit. Like I've said before MUMBO JUMBO and extra cost. Besides unless you live in AZ and drive the truck to KB's house for him to install you still have to do it yourself in your own driveway. You KB lovers kill me.

Griz

KB offers a well thought out, high quality, ready to install product. Whether you call it assembling or engineering, it makes no difference. And, he charges a little to cover the cost of doing so. Big deal.

It has nothing to do with being "KB lovers". Some of us prefer to buy a complete, ready to install, proven product. And no one else offered it as early as KB did.

Did you make your own EGR blocker plate too?

You're sounding a little over-sensitive here.

Well spoken......

And, very appropriate at this juncture... :D

KB offers a well thought out, high quality, ready to install product. Whether you call it assembling or engineering, it makes no difference. And, he charges a little to cover the cost of doing so. Big deal.

It has nothing to do with being "KB lovers". Some of us prefer to buy a complete, ready to install, proven product. And no one else offered it as early as KB did.

Did you make your own EGR blocker plate too?

You're sounding a little over-sensitive here.

:exactly:Thank You

There are different talents. Some talents can wrench, and wrench away and find all the little tricks that enable folks to do that job quicker and better. Then there are people who understand "principles" and can apply them to problems. Both are nice to have around here. TXC wrenched up a good solution and KB thought up a good solution. If you don't have the intelligence to see that then I'm feeling for you.

There are different talents. Some talents can wrench, and wrench away and find all the little tricks that enable folks to do that job quicker and better. Then there are people who understand "principles" and can apply them to problems. Both are nice to have around here. TXC wrenched up a good solution and KB thought up a good solution. If you don't have the intelligence to see that then I'm feeling for you.

You are one smart fella. I feel this way but you said it very well
chevman

Not bashing on anyone here...But my oppinion is this: anyone can cram the biggest radiator they can find that will fit in there and call it a fix. The question is why doesn't an LBZ have overheating issues? Do they come with the V2 already installed? Doubt it. so the question is what is different between the two, LLY and LBZ. The short answer is the intake. Believe it or not the restrictive mouthpiece can cause super-heating of the intake air which no amount of intercooling will reject. If you're eating hot air you're raising your engine temperature. To those of you that have installed the LBZ mouthpiece, have modded the LLY one, or installed KB's setup: How are your engine temps running?

Not bashing on anyone here...But my oppinion is this: anyone can cram the biggest radiator they can find that will fit in there and call it a fix. The question is why doesn't an LBZ have overheating issues? Do they come with the V2 already installed? Doubt it. so the question is what is different between the two, LLY and LBZ. The short answer is the intake. Believe it or not the restrictive mouthpiece can cause super-heating of the intake air which no amount of intercooling will reject. If you're eating hot air you're raising your engine temperature. To those of you that have installed the LBZ mouthpiece, have modded the LLY one, or installed KB's setup: How are your engine temps running?

Respectfully, I believe you are wrong to assume the mouthpiece is a cure. I and several others can and have overheated the LBZ. They are better, but still not as good as the LB7's.

GM changed a lot of things like the fan, fan shroud, water pump, oil cooler, radiator, radiator hoses, CAC, CAI, and the mouthpiece to make things better. ;)

There is an element of truth here. The LB7 had a wastegate to prevent the erosion of thermal feedback, and that is the difference. LLY and LBZ (induction) tuning does not do what it should to remove this issue.

The application and method of variable vane closed loop boost control is the problem here. It is just exacerbated with this hardware atrocity.

Respectfully, I believe you are wrong to assume the mouthpiece is a cure. I and several others can and have overheated the LBZ. They are better, but still not as good as the LB7's.

GM changed a lot of things like the fan, fan shroud, water pump, oil cooler, radiator, radiator hoses, CAC, CAI, and the mouthpiece to make things better. ;)

You are correct in the latter part of your statement. The mouthpiece is a part of the entire puzzle however, and one should see some improvement in the engine opperating temps when upgrading this piece, IMO. And I have you in print saying that the LB7's are a better engine! LOL! :p::D:cool:;)

And I have you in print saying that the LB7's are a better engine! LOL! :p::D:cool:;)

As far as not overheating....and fuel mileage. I really wish I had my 01 back with a lifetime supply of injectors. :)

As far as not overheating....and fuel mileage. I really wish I had my 01 back with a lifetime supply of injectors. :)

ME 2!:D

KB,

If one has already had the dealer complete the TSB for the LBZ intake, what is the best route to go to fix the mouthpiece problem? Is the best fit a stock LBZ mouthpiece (assuming one can be found), the Kodiak mouthpiece, or your modified mouthpiece?

Thanks,
Ed

At present there is no supply of LBZ mouthpieces and is expected to be on perpetual national backorder for the foreseeable future. My present stock of these is already stretched.

If you can find an LBZ MP, it will need some modifications to fit the LLY without damaging something. Some people are handy this way, others are not. The dealer is helpless this way, and won't typically impliment a change that is not underwritten as a TSB from Engineering. If you install the 3rd gen MP without these changes, you can damage the EGR and/or stress the flange mount as the hood can/does make contact with it.

You have had the MAF voltage rescaled presumably?

I don't think the Kodiak MP will help you.

At present there is no supply of LBZ mouthpieces and is expected to be on perpetual national backorder for the foreseeable future. My present stock of these is already stretched.

If you can find an LBZ MP, it will need some modifications to fit the LLY without damaging something. Some people are handy this way, others are not. The dealer is helpless this way, and won't typically impliment a change that is not underwritten as a TSB from Engineering. If you install the 3rd gen MP without these changes, you can damage the EGR and/or stress the flange mount as the hood can/does make contact with it.

You have had the MAF voltage rescaled presumably?

I don't think the Kodiak MP will help you.

The dealer performed the LBZ intake TSB on my truck right after it was purchased and the MAF was recalibrated. I assumed the dealer would be of no help in fitting up the new mouthpiece so I plan to do the modification myself. I was just curious if your setup would allow the use of the LBZ intake as my LLY one was taken by the dealer.

Thanks,
Ed

My assessment of the Kodiak MP:
I was reluctant to get the Kodiak MP for the clams that the engine noise was louder…
I used my calibrated frequency meter from work and took some readings pre install and post install. I had the frequency meter on the center of the dash with the mic pointed to the middle of the cab on both tests.
1. 1st reading was idle in the driveway with the OEM LLY MP
2. 2nd reading was at 25mph
3. 3rd reading was at 45mph
4. 4th reading was at 65mph
5. 5th reading was at 75mph
I then installed the Kodiak MP and repeated the same 5 readings and let me tell you… NO difference what so ever!!
I did notice that the turbo spool was more noticeable with the hood open when reving the motor. I have not driven it any length to see if the MPGs are better…. I will be heading down to the imperial sand dunes in a week and see if the MPGs improve and post my results. This was a very easy install as stated before.

If you install the 3rd gen MP without these changes, you can damage the EGR and/or stress the flange mount as the hood can/does make contact with it.

You have had the MAF voltage rescaled presumably?

I don't think the Kodiak MP will help you.


KB - I don’t know anything about the 3rd gen MP but I can assure you that the Kodiak MP has NO problems with clearance to the hood! I can take some pics if needed?

My kodiak MP took 30 min. to install, no coupler needed, hooked right up to lly tube with very little bend in accordian section. sits a tad higher than the lly MP but still does'nt touch the hood insulation. Smoother power up and lower EGT by 100 degrees. With the V2 rad. and tx cai ,temps are not a problem now.

KB - I don’t know anything about the 3rd gen MP but I can assure you that the Kodiak MP has NO problems with clearance to the hood! I can take some pics if needed?
I could be wrong, but I think the clearance issue is more on the GMC trucks. I installed my Induction Overhaul Kit a couple days ago, and it was close.

I could be wrong, but I think the clearance issue is more on the GMC trucks. I installed my Induction Overhaul Kit a couple days ago, and it was close.

Mine slightly touched the hood when I first installed it. I got a 4" to 3.5" silicone coupler, cut the intake tube down, and was able to clock the mouthpiece down with lots of clearance from the hood and the accordian is strait too.

why is this now a Kodiak MP thread?

One more time, the Kodiak MP is more restrictive that what I choose to use, and form wise, its a poor fit by my standards. The transitions involved in the wide variety of DIY versions expoused here, using a Kodiak MP, does not interest me, so it is not part of my effort. It won't be useful either for the IFOG, which is going to fit all LBZ/LMM, IOH kit, etc, but not the smaller kodiak dimensions.

The induction tract is going through impressive transformations and I am excited about more to come.

why is this now a Kodiak MP thread?

Because it works and is still just as effective as an LBZ MP for those that can't get there hands on an LBZ MP. If you cut the intake and add a 3.5" X4" coupler the Accordian is just as straight and stock looking as the original.

Griz

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2737353#post2737353

Looks like we are getting positive results across the board. Was a great and seems to be a proven theory..good so far,,,

We have the killerbee air deal on our 05 3500 2wd dually and the truck has the most power than ever now. No question for me to feel it.
chevman

I just returned from a 2500 mile towing trip (on flat ground - I95 I10 I75 MD to FL) running EFILive with 5 DSP tunes (one is stock, one is the 20-20 tune and one is comparable to a 40hp predator tune .... both enhanced tunes have a two boost options 1psi added and 2psi added over stock.)

With the KB IOH Kit, towing with stock tuning is actually decent now.

As for mpg towing, I got the following:
stock at 75+ mph towing 11.1 mpg,
20/20 tune towing at 63-65 mph with ~ 1psi over stock added boost 13.5 mpg
40hp tune towing at 63-65 mph with ~ 1psi over stock added boost 12.8 mpg

Same trip 3 years ago:
stock at 75+ mph towing 9.5 mpg
40hp tune towing at 65 mph with ~ 2 psi over stock added boost 11.2 mpg
(Did not have the 20/20 tune or DSP 5 at the time.)

This summer I will be towing to the Rockies, Utah, Arizona and New Mexico - In July, so I can collect temperature data then.

When I monitor/scan mm3 of fuel on EFILive, I can see that the modified turbo mouthpiece is allowing the engine to command less fuel for a given load due (on a known stretch of road.)

Yeah... one of the more dramatic improvements since that thread is that Killerbee is again amongst us... nice to have the author here rather than to have to dance around the subject without his direct input.

Just my $0.02, so spend it wisely... ;)

I am hereby dispelling the myth of increased boost via this modification. A SPIKE, perhaps, but USEABLE and SUSTAINABLE boost ..... I call 100% BS

The only way to alter peak useable boost is through tuning, the computer will dial it back to its set level if more is present. You can get a faster ramp up rate and you can get a higher spike, but you cannot get more sustainable peak boost without going into the computer. This is not a guess, it is a fact, which we have seen and proven through lots of testing and measuring both on the street, racing, towing, and on the dyno.

I am hereby dispelling the myth of increased boost via this modification. A SPIKE, perhaps, but USEABLE and SUSTAINABLE boost ..... I call 100% BS

The only way to alter peak useable boost is through tuning, the computer will dial it back to its set level if more is present. You can get a faster ramp up rate and you can get a higher spike, but you cannot get more sustainable peak boost without going into the computer. This is not a guess, it is a fact, which we have seen and proven through lots of testing and measuring both on the street, racing, towing, and on the dyno.

I respect your knowledge and all your efforts.
But I have to disagree.I have a solid and sustainable 1psi increase at cruise and 2 psi increase at WOT that holds. Only change is MP and computer has not adjusted itself yet since install.Readings with and without B/S from both boost gauge and Predator live data.
Maybe a FE9 tuning thing?
I know my truck has responded much better to mods than all of my friends Calif trucks.

If you command 35 psi at 3000 rpm, then go out and do a before/after test, with this tuning/rpm, you will see quite different WOT boost numbers. Repeatable every time. And in each case, logged vane position will be maxxed out. That will tell you why there is a boost difference.

This was all learned a year and a half ago. Just never on this forum.

I respect your knowledge and all your efforts.
But I have to disagree.I have a solid and sustainable 1psi increase at cruise and 2 psi increase at WOT that holds. Only change is MP and computer has not adjusted itself yet since install.Readings with and without B/S from both boost gauge and Predator live data.
Maybe a FE9 tuning thing?
I know my truck has responded much better to mods than all of my friends Calif trucks.

My truck is FE9 as well. I can tell the computer what I want the boost to be and thats what the boost will be. The computer is in complete control, no other mod overides it.

I am not talking about how much boost it can REACH, I am talking about what it settles at under full throttle. Watching a gauge or Pred live data is iffy at best, you can't keep your eyes on the gadgets the entire time while driving full throttle, try logging with EFI so you can later see what happened for sure.

I can set it at 308 kPa and sure enough it will rise and hold 30 psi. I can then immediately pull over and set it to 239 kPa and then take off and what do ya know, 20 psi. Repeatable EVERY time. The computer controls the boost, period. Different MP makes no difference, computer controls the peak boost. MP doesn't overide it. It lacks the ability.

Not talking about cruise, or spike, or efficiency affecting vane position, only sustainable peak boost with the stock charger.

A year and a half ago changes nothing, neither does RPM, boost is not controlled by RPM alone. Boost can be many values at the same RPM. Obviously nothing was learned either on this forum nor any other over a year and a half's worth of time. Also, commanding 35 psi on a stock charger is just dumb, as you are only creating excess heat, work, and losing power since you are off the chargers efficiency map.

Thats my Question. I dont have EFI live and cannot tell computer what to do.I have access to safe area to drive truck full bore and CAN monitor gauge and scan tool safely the entire time.Logged data and info.Swapped MP and 2psi increase at WOT.I understand what you are saying and have fair knowledge of tuning but I also know what a mechanical gauge and Live data are telling me 45min later compared to what I just logged.
Perhaps my truck is programed for the boost I am now achieving and the Kodiak MP is allowing it to hold it due to its better flowing nature over the LLY MP.
On a side note I PMed you for contact info as I have someone who needs to order your CAI piece for their 04.5.Keep up good work.

Just to clear it up, everything I am saying is with the LBZ MP in place. The boost lands where the computer says, not any higher. Calculate boost, set it in the table, take off and there you go, right on target. The data does show an initial spike but it goes away after a couple a seconds, so if your eyes weren't pinned to a gauge you would not see it. Lets face it, mechanical gauge readings which is what most people have are subject to very basic errors, changing your viewing angle by just a slight amount changes the reading.

My truck is FE9 as well. I can tell the computer what I want the boost to be and thats what the boost will be. The computer is in complete control, no other mod overides it.

I am not talking about how much boost it can REACH, I am talking about what it settles at under full throttle. Watching a gauge or Pred live data is iffy at best, you can't keep your eyes on the gadgets the entire time while driving full throttle, try logging with EFI so you can later see what happened for sure.

I can set it at 308 kPa and sure enough it will rise and hold 30 psi. I can then immediately pull over and set it to 239 kPa and then take off and what do ya know, 20 psi. Repeatable EVERY time. The computer controls the boost, period. Different MP makes no difference, computer controls the peak boost. MP doesn't overide it. It lacks the ability.

Not talking about cruise, or spike, or efficiency affecting vane position, only sustainable peak boost with the stock charger.

A year and a half ago changes nothing, neither does RPM, boost is not controlled by RPM alone. Boost can be many values at the same RPM. Obviously nothing was learned either on this forum nor any other over a year and a half's worth of time. Also, commanding 35 psi on a stock charger is just dumb, as you are only creating excess heat, work, and losing power since you are off the chargers efficiency map.

Not sure where you are getting your information from, but 308 kPa is 44.6 psi and 239 kPa is 34.6 psi.

Also, I think it is entirely possible, with a restriction of the factory MP, that maximum sustainable boost could not be achieved due to the restriction.

Not sure where you are getting your information from, but 308 kPa is 44.6 psi and 239 kPa is 34.6 psi.

Also, I think it is entirely possible, with a restriction of the factory MP, that maximum sustainable boost could not be achieved due to the restriction.

You have to subtract atmosphere to get actual boost. Atmosphere at sea level is 14.7 psi and I rounded all the tenths to the nearest whole number. Now I will let you figure out where I get my information from. ;)

And for the also, if the restriction were what was limiting the truck from making the extra 1 or 2 psi boost then I sure wouldn't be able to just have the computer lop on 10 psi or 15 psi at my whim could I? Looks like the computer has plenty of reach beyond the range you are hoping the MP is able to contribute. So no, its not entirely impossible at all.

Also, I think it is entirely possible, with a restriction of the factory MP, that maximum sustainable boost could not be achieved due to the restriction.

I have extensive datalogs that prove this statement is essentially correct. The max vane position table limits how far the ECM can drive the vanes to produce boost. Introduce the factory LLY mouthpiece and drive the truck at an altitude where the "C" boost tables are still in use but before it switches to the "B" tables, and the ECM cannot quite get the boost that it is asking for.

There are a number of other factors that make this arguement a bit difficult to be "black/white", differences in stock tuning (particularly the max vane position tables) from '04 to '05 LLY as well as differences between GM's own software updates during each production year. Add to that differences in tuning between users of EFILive and the boost control picture gets complex and can respond quite differently between trucks. Further complicating this is exactly where the boost gauge is tapped in, pre or post intercooler.

Bottom line: The LBZ mouthpiece allows for more boost as well as more airflow for a specific commanded boost pressure, as the turbo is generating less heat from less work required to compress the air.

I have extensive datalogs that prove this statement is essentially correct. The max vane position table limits how far the ECM can drive the vanes to produce boost. Introduce the factory LLY mouthpiece and drive the truck at an altitude where the "C" boost tables are still in use but before it switches to the "B" tables, and the ECM cannot quite get the boost that it is asking for.

There are a number of other factors that make this arguement a bit difficult to be "black/white", differences in stock tuning (particularly the max vane position tables) from '04 to '05 LLY as well as differences between GM's own software updates during each production year. Add to that differences in tuning between users of EFILive and the boost control picture gets complex and can respond quite differently between trucks. Further complicating this is exactly where the boost gauge is tapped in, pre or post intercooler.

Bottom line: The LBZ mouthpiece allows for more boost as well as more airflow for a specific commanded boost pressure, as the turbo is generating less heat from less work required to compress the air.

Big difference between the maximum attainable boost and the effect it will have on stock programming. The mod is good because it lowers the DP across the compressor and extends the compressor efficiency map, which will allow the turbo to attain more boost. So I agree with you fully on that part.

But that does not mean Joe consumer will see more sustainable boost just installing the MP. The computer will pull back the boost to the same level as it was before the MP. It will alter the vane position to land on the targeted boost. This is why I am saying it is a myth that you will see more boost from installing the LBZ MP. It just isn't true. Stock boost levels are low enough that the computer has the ability to exceed them even with the stock MP, changing the MP only gives it that much more cushion on vane position. Only through programming changes will you be able to realize any additional boost ceiling that is made available by the MP. The entire rest of the map will be more efficient, but the peak sustainable boost level will remain the same.

But that does not mean Joe consumer will see more sustainable boost just installing the MP. The computer will pull back the boost to the same level as it was before the MP. It will alter the vane position to land on the targeted boost. This is why I am saying it is a myth that you will see more boost from installing the LBZ MP. It just isn't true. Stock boost levels are low enough that the computer has the ability to exceed them even with the stock MP, changing the MP only gives it that much more cushion on vane position. Only through programming changes will you be able to realize any additional boost ceiling that is made available by the MP. The entire rest of the map will be more efficient, but the peak sustainable boost level will remain the same.

Thank you!

I have extensive datalogs that prove this statement is essentially correct.

as do I. Thanks for reminding me.


...Bottom line: The LBZ mouthpiece allows for more boost as well as more airflow for a specific commanded boost pressure (I would probaly use the term "vane position" here instead of "boost pressure"), as the turbo is generating less heat from less work required to compress the air.

I know I am being picky :), but this point is easily misunderstood, in an already elusive thermodynamic topic.

Thanks for the constructive reinforcement. On target.

In fact, if a person has his boost sensor located at the compressor discharge, as I recommend, you may well see your "boost" reduce under stock tuning. Yet the truck is obviously more peppy at the same time.

Don't judge the IOH kit improvement in performance by your boost gauge. It is not going to tell you anything. Instead, log the difference in vane position to create that boost. Even better, if you have an exhaust drive pressure gauge installed, observe that.

All of this is really getting away from the simplicity of the mod and the tremendous improvement in throttle response and overall power that is immediately noticable. It is great how well some can explain why/how it works, but I am most impressed with the improvements in the performance of my truck.

I still feel like I am driving a different truck every time I am behind the wheel.

All of this is really getting away from the simplicity of the mod and the tremendous improvement in throttle response and overall power that is immediately noticable. It is great how well some can explain why/how it works, but I am most impressed with the improvements in the performance of my truck.

I still feel like I am driving a different truck every time I am behind the wheel.

Absolutely. It's a mod well worth doing. Just be wary of super powers added to it LOL! :D

Wasnt this post supposed to be about the performance of the KB IOH kit? Obviously GM thinks the overheating problem is with the intake, as they have a tsb for it. I have read about numerous others that have swapped the lbz cooling system and have still had problems after investing thousands of dollars. I can tell you this, a friend of mine has both the KB IOH kit and the V2 and has no problems towing a 16000lb. backhoe daily. Does that mean everyone needs to both? I dont think so, each persons situation/truck is different. The question here is does his kit do what he says? YES! Keep in mind that all of the big name aftermarket air intake companies have been lying and will continue to do so as long as we let them. Give the guy some credit, as he was able to fix what GM should have engineered in the first place.

Give the guy some credit, as he was able to fix what GM should have engineered in the first place.

I agree credit is due to everyone who worked on this problem including KB. Funny thing is GM did some fairly serious re-engineering for the LBZ and, coincidentally, the last run of the LLY (early 06, which have all the same parts and cooling system mods as the LBZ) and only told people about the cold air intake in the service bulletin.

They knew. They just didn't tell anyone. And IMO, they didn't quite go far enough. Maybe their engineers were pulled to work out the new LMM emissions, I don't know.

At any rate, there is no reason for anyone to overheat anymore after applying one or more of the solutions available.