I see common mods of exhuast, Edge/Juice, Banks and BullyDog electronics, but hardly any of those people have intercooler upgrades?

From what I read, and that info may be inaccurate, adding more fuel means potentially higher EGTs and if you add larger exhuast capability, add more fuel with the electronics, you should complete the circle and add a larger intercooler. If you add more fuel, with the electronic mods and do not have a better intercooler system, won't you simply have the problem of defueling occur again and again? Is the intercooler upgrade nice, but not really necessary as articles and television shows would have you believe? I do not see any posts of "defueling do to inadequate intercooling capacity is making me mad", though.

I see common mods of exhuast, Edge/Juice, Banks and BullyDog electronics, but hardly any of those people have intercooler upgrades?

From what I read, and that info may be inaccurate, adding more fuel means potentially higher EGTs and if you add larger exhuast capability, add more fuel with the electronics, you should complete the circle and add a larger intercooler. If you add more fuel, with the electronic mods and do not have a better intercooler system, won't you simply have the problem of defueling occur again and again? Is the intercooler upgrade nice, but not really necessary as articles and television shows would have you believe? I do not see any posts of "defueling do to inadequate intercooling capacity is making me mad", though.
Overfuel= Black Smoke and High EGT's

Underfuel= No Smoke and Low EGT's

The CAC we have in the DMX is fine up even with Twin Turbos.

To effectively decrease EGT's you need a good Chargecooler, but you need air more than a bigger CAC to gain any appreciable drop in EGT's

Speaking Of Intercoolers, Has Anyone Tried One Of The New Banks Coolers That They Are Advertising In The New Diesel Mag? :d

Don't think it's worth the money, like juice said the d-max cooler is very efficient in stock form.

Don't think it's worth the money, like juice said the d-max cooler is very efficient in stock form.
At a compounded 48 PSIG observed there is a 3.5 PSIG pressure drop.....stock boost levels i saw 2.5 PSIG.. not enough drop to get in a tizzy about

We have enough headroom to run the stocker to 1900CFM's and boost press????

At any rate the Banks CAC is more money than Spearco.... and if i were to upgrade it would be a water to air unit.....

Just my .02

i think a few guys are running the banks intercoller on the fourm here, from what they said, it looks to be a lb or two less boost pressure the are seeing on their gauges compared to before, less restrictive giving better breathing, speak up testers

Thanks for the replies and info.

Let me pose a question: If you don’t need a bigger intercooler, why do you need an intercooler at all? Isn’t it just wasting space and adding to the length of the intake tract, possibly causing a lag in airflow?

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An intercooler is all about air density. One way to get more oxygen into the cylinders is to cool the air, making the air more dense as it is introduced to the engine. Air density refers to the amount of oxygen present in the air. For instance, air is more dense at sea level than it is at high elevation. Turbo diesel engines will produce more smoke and higher EGT’s when they operate at higher elevations because there is less oxygen content in the air. An intercooler increases the density of the air by cooling it.

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Any intercooler design is optimized by attempting to achieve the maximum amount of temperature drop with a minimum amount of pressure drop. Because an intercooler is a restrictive device, and will always provide some resistance to airflow in order to do its job of cooling the air, there will always be some amount of pressure drop across the intercooler. There are primarily two areas of consideration that are important to us when we design a replacement intercooler: getting the air to and from the core with the least amount of restriction, and optimizing the core for maximum cooling. In the case of the Duramax, the inlet and outlet tubes are increased from 2.5” at their smallest to 3” with the Banks intercooler. The end tanks are design with a better approach and departure to and from the core. The core thickness is increased from 40mm to 50mm. All of this works together to increase the intercoolers efficiency by about 10%. What is efficiency? When evaluating an intercooler, you must consider both the temperature drop and the pressure drop. If I can increase the amount of temperature drop and/or decrease the amount of pressure drop, then the efficiency improves, delivering more air to the engine (greater density) with less penalty (pressure loss).

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Our diesel engines operate on the principle that in order to make more power, I need more fuel, and in order to burn more fuel, I need more air. Consider the history of Ford diesels as an example:

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In 1983, Ford introduced the 6.9L non-turbo diesel in their pickup trucks.

In 1986, Ford increased the displacement of the engine to 7.3L; more displacement means more air means more power.

In 1993, Ford added a turbocharger to the 7.3L engine; boost pressure means more air (density) means more power.

In 1994, Ford introduced a new engine design with a higher level of boost; more boost pressure means more air means more power.

In 1999, Ford added an intercooler; improved density means more air means more power.

In 2003, Ford reduced the displacement of the engine for emissions purposes, but compensates with a variable geometry turbo, ultimately providing more boost throughout the operating range, which results in more power.

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Why use a larger intercooler? More air means more power. It really is as simple as that.

So how much gain in ET or on a dyno will a stock truck see with nothing more than a banks IC and how much will a truck with mods see with just and IC????

Why don't you just save the big bucks you'd spend on the banks intercooler and put an CO2 spayer on it to cool down the air, the only time our intercoolers may run into a problem is under big HP. with the CO2 you could save a great amount of money and have a on demand air cooler when you need it!!!

Just a thought.

ratlover,

If all you did was take a stock truck and install a Banks intercooler in place of the stock one, I would expect to see little if any power or acceleration improvement. You may have missed my point in the earlier post. Power improvement comes from adding fuel, but the by-products are higher EGT and smoke. Proper power improvement comes from adding air and fuel together. By improving the air density with a better intercooler, you can add more fuel and therefore make more power.

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Consider this scenario. Take a stock truck and add a diesel tuner that has an EGT limiting feature. In other words, the tuner will add fuel upon demand until an EGT of 1300 degrees is reached. Once that EGT is measured, additional fuel is limited such that the EGT does not exceed 1300. Now you add a free-flowing exhaust system to the truck. Backpressure is reduced, and leaving the tuner out of the equation, the EGT would be lower than it was stock. With the tuner in the equation, you can put more fuel in before the EGT limit is reached, thus more power. The same is true with a better intercooler; denser air, more fuel before the EGT limit, more power. In this case, since the intercooler is about 10% more efficient, we can safely assume that power will improve by about 10% at the same EGT limit. Conversely, if the tuner is not in the equation, we can expect the addition of a better intercooler to cause EGT to drop.

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Peter - Out of curiousity, has banks tested a 6-gun equipped truck with a stock CAC and a Banks CAC for comparison? I would think that this would be about the only effective way to show how much more power is possible with a larger intercooler....
Asking out of curiousity, not trying to be arguementative....

Scott

I'd like to see some numbers too.

Peter,

If the stock intercooler is 40mm thick and you went to 50mm for a 10% gain why when going thru all the trouble of making a bigger intercooler in the first place didn't you go 60 or 70mm thick or make the length and width dimensions bigger or do what ever you could do to get the MAX amount of gain in efficency given the stock mounting area that you had to work with.

A intercooler is a big ticket item and for only a 10% gain on a modified truck, which is good but Could be better if it was designed for the max possible area that there is to work with for a few dollars more.

Not picking a arguement just wondering what was the deciding factor to stop where you did.

And will a larger intercooler be coming out one day?

DD

Peter, nice job silencing the opposition. I myself am studying mechanical engineering. Sometimes facts are all you need to keep the bs out of a conversation.

Nobody said the opposition was silenced.

Were looking for fact's and verafiable numbers.

And from an outside source or from people who already have the product's in use would be best.

Although Peter makes some good points even he is assuming power will increase 10% over stock.

Where are the fact's and numbers to back up those figure's, that's what were looking for from him or any other vender here.

DD




ratlover,

If all you did was take a stock truck and install a Banks intercooler in place of the stock one, I would expect to see little if any power or acceleration improvement. You may have missed my point in the earlier post. Power improvement comes from adding fuel, but the by-products are higher EGT and smoke. Proper power improvement comes from adding air and fuel together. By improving the air density with a better intercooler, you can add more fuel and therefore make more power.

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Consider this scenario. Take a stock truck and add a diesel tuner that has an EGT limiting feature. In other words, the tuner will add fuel upon demand until an EGT of 1300 degrees is reached. Once that EGT is measured, additional fuel is limited such that the EGT does not exceed 1300. Now you add a free-flowing exhaust system to the truck. Backpressure is reduced, and leaving the tuner out of the equation, the EGT would be lower than it was stock. With the tuner in the equation, you can put more fuel in before the EGT limit is reached, thus more power. The same is true with a better intercooler; denser air, more fuel before the EGT limit, more power. In this case, since the intercooler is about 10% more efficient, we can safely assume that power will improve by about 10% at the same EGT limit. Conversely, if the tuner is not in the equation, we can expect the addition of a better intercooler to cause EGT to drop.

<o:p></o:p>

Actually if Peter was willing to send one up here i will be performing another dyno in 2 weeks time with the twins.

I could be talked into a side x side comparison.
Lots of fuel, Lots of Air and some numbers.

Peter, feel free to PM me if you have any requests or suggestions for site/dyno/ track conditions.

Juice

OK......I'm running a program that dosnt back down for EGT's. Actually I have no idea what kind of EGT's I am running becasue the gauge I'm running stops reading at 1600*. What will this intercooler do for me any idea?

Maybe it would be better sutied and its aimed at a guy towing and wanting to scream up a hill loaded down and keep the EGT's a bit more in check?

on the banks intercooler, does the plumbing from the turbo to the intercooler go from 2.5" to 3" like it does stock?

PeterT, I talked with 2 representatives of your company at the PRI show in December. There was a techni cooler for the duramax on display. I specifically asked about it and what could be expected. The 2 of your staff that I talked to both agreed that the benefits for the High Performance crowd would be minimal if at all. The cooler was designed around the towing crowd. So is this true?

Peter,
I swear you sound just like the gentleman I spoke to on the phone from banks. Maybe your the same guy, maybe not, but you guys have the same attitude. Numbers and theory is all fine and dandy, but what happens when you introduce the other variables from the engine. I am very interested in this, however Banks is talking about 1300 bucks for one. For 500-600 bucks I probably would have bought one, just to buy one, but when we talk about 1300 I then need to justify that purpose. With that in mind, I would really love to read about a truck that is tested before with the stock inter-cooler and one that is tested after.

I'm pretty sure that everyone on this thread is interested in an inter-cooler, but the price is telling everyone that this purpose needs to be justified and knowing what it did on a ford won't help my decision(the guy one the phone said they had info. about a ford truck). The edge/attitude rocked on my old LB7, then I traded it in for a crew cab LLY and the edge doesnt work so well on that truck. Things like that really motivate people to find out what its like on their truck before dishing out all this cash.

So please do us a favor, hook up with juice and run some tests on the LB7 and the LLY or just the LLY, I dont own an LB7 anymore(wish I did).

Peter,
I swear you sound just like the gentleman I spoke to on the phone from banks. Maybe your the same guy, maybe not, but you guys have the same attitude. Numbers and theory is all fine and dandy, but what happens when you introduce the other variables from the engine. I am very interested in this, however Banks is talking about 1300 bucks for one. For 500-600 bucks I probably would have bought one, just to buy one, but when we talk about 1300 I then need to justify that purpose. With that in mind, I would really love to read about a truck that is tested before with the stock inter-cooler and one that is tested after.

I'm pretty sure that everyone on this thread is interested in an inter-cooler, but the price is telling everyone that this purpose needs to be justified and knowing what it did on a ford won't help my decision(the guy one the phone said they had info. about a ford truck). The edge/attitude rocked on my old LB7, then I traded it in for a crew cab LLY and the edge doesnt work so well on that truck. Things like that really motivate people to find out what its like on their truck before dishing out all this cash.

So please do us a favor, hook up with juice and run some tests on the LB7 and the LLY or just the LLY, I dont own an LB7 anymore(wish I did).
I left a message on Peter's Voicemail, I am really interested in the 'Pressure Drop' across the core.... as boost pressures rise, the pressure drop issue can become non linear depending on the flow potential of the endtanks meaning that we can get boost 'stacking' in the endtanks and not making it to the engine.

What works on a Boosted LB7 Should hold very true for the LLY as well.
LLY's can make a higher peak psi number than an LB7 but which turbo loses adiabatic efficiency at what boost number? anyone have a map on the LLY Turbo?

I believe the Banks Technicooler will work well, but to see the total benefits, a highly modded truck would show the most dramatic changes.

If need be i can dial my boost down from 48 PSIG to say.... 20PSIG compounded to simulate a stock LB7 with either the big VA, Juice or the BullyDog Power Pup.

Then Turn the boost back up to 48 PSIG and Let Her Eat and see where we end up.

I'm all about the performance. And making a good intercooler is as important as a good turbo setup or good fuelling setup IMHO

Would have been nice to see an actual Dmax core comparison at PRI rather than the generic Banks vs OEM using a Ford intercooler.

How do the Banks pipes compare to the LB7 pipes?

they had a DMAX intercooler on the other side of the display it was hanging on the wall.

Pressure drop will not be linear to flow, infact it should roughly be the pressure should increase as a function of the square root of the flow.

One thing that you must consider when looking at an intercooler is frontal area. As this will effect the air outlet temperature more than anything. By increasing the core thickness you are going to increase the effectivness, but by very little, but you are increasing the flow capabilites quite a bit, hence you should see a smaller pressure drop. Ideally you want as much charge air as possible to be dispersed over the largest amount of frontal area as possible to get the best cooling, for this to happen you need a thin, tall, and short intercooler. Problem with this is the physical size of the unit would not fit.

During our Duramax turbo testing, we have proven that the stock Duramax intercooler to be 85% effective with the stock Dodge intercooler being 75% effective. The max pressure drop recorded was roughly 1.80psi at 38psi intake manifold pressure.

I saw the inter5coolers on the restpective engines, but the cutaways were all generic...

yea that is right, they didn't have a dmax cutaway.

[QUOTE=Christian Roth]Pressure drop will not be linear to flow, infact it should roughly be the pressure should increase as a function of the square root of the flow.

QUOTE]


I thought i said that?):h



But Yes Christian, Behr has done a remarkable job on an "OEM" Intercooler.

I would expect nothing less of Behr GMBH, their reputation is nothing short of stellar. Esp Considering the Ferrarri 288 GTO, Ferrari F-40, Porsche 959, Koenig Testarossa Twin Turbo (with albrex supercharger) Ruf CTR Yellowbird just to name a few engine bays that Behr has graced over the years. But they make far more Radiators than intercoolers.... Bayernische Motor Werken, Audi etc.

I would love to test a Banks Technicooler. The endtanks look very interesting from an airflow standpoint as far as size. A certain amount of pressure drop is a given in a bar and plate CAC design in order to maintain a proper W/K/a^2 temp drop in a given size. Airflow across the core becomes an issue, as does air throughput vs pressure drop. You can make a 90% eff CAC, but as Christian points out it takes up TREMENDOUS space. As far as my memory serves me, those questing for 90% OVERALL efficiency (including pressure drop and temp drop) usually go liquid to air intercooling.

Not saying it is not possible in an air to air CAC, but it takes serious engineering to get there. Besides, if i show up at BD Dyno Days this April 23 I want to have 1 more BOMB than your DMX does;) just to be sure you know? #2 only of course!:ro)

See you on the Rollers!:D

Pressure drop will not be linear to flow, infact it should roughly be the pressure should increase as a function of the square root of the flow.

Actually, the DP should vary as the square of the flow. Flow varies as the square root of DP.

yea that is right, they didn't have a dmax cutaway.
Yep, the unit displays looked nice along with the polished pipes, but without a cutaway, the diplay was more geared towards the general public.

Still waiting for Colin to return from that meeting a few months back...

Actually, the DP should vary as the square of the flow. Flow varies as the square root of DP.
I knew it was something like that. ;)

partsguy662,
Unfortunately the data that you are asking for is not readily available. We did extensive testing during the development of the intercooler and that is where the efficiency results came from.

Diesel Dragon,
There are two reasons that we did not make the intercooler bigger than we did. The first is space. You can imagine that the stock intercooler is confined to a certain amount of real estate in the front of the vehicle, and while we can make the best use of that space possible, there are still limitations. We do not modify the vehicle in any way to install the new intercooler. The second issue is what we call cold side flow. The intercooler is flowing compressed air from the turbo into the engine through the inside of the intercooler, called hot side flow, and the air that is flowing through the front of the vehicle and over the fins of the intercooler is the cooling medium. After this air passes through the intercooler, it must also provide cooling to the radiator, trans cooler, etc. If we add too much thickness to the core, we run the risk of limiting the cold side flow and diminishing the cooling capability of the radiator. This would likely be for a minimal improvement in the cooling capability of the intercooler. I doubt that we will ever develop a larger intercooler for this application, but when we do custom designs, like our Duramax race truck, we do everything possible to optimize the overall design.

ratlover,
If I had your truck, I would be putting an intercooler on RIGHT NOW along with anything else that I could do to increase the airflow. 1600 degrees is too much for my liking, even in a brief race condition, like a drag race. The highest we let our Duramaxes go is 1500 for short periods.

mtomac,
The inlet and outlet tubes are 3” for the full length of the tube. The stock tubes are 2.5” for most of the length and then flare up to 3” at the connection to the intercooler.

Carbon04,
The intercooler can be beneficial to any type of user, but I suppose it comes down to what your requirements are. Here is an example of what I mean. Lets say I take an otherwise stock truck and install a tuner without any temp limiting. Then I go perform a quarter mile run. The run takes somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 seconds to complete and at the end of my run the EGT is 1500 degrees. Not really a problem, especially since that EGT was only for a few seconds. Now I change the intercooler and make the same run. Everything is about the same, but at the end of the run my EGT is only 1450. In my opinion, this is beneficial even in a high performance application. But it depends on your requirements, goals and the way you use your truck.

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Occitiger,
I certainly understand the concern over the cost of the intercooler, and I don’t imagine that upgrading the intercooler will be for everyone. I did not come into this thread to try to sell intercoolers. Technical questions were being asked about what the benefits of an intercooler might be, so I posted with information that I thought would be helpful.

Got Juice,
I will be getting back in touch with you to follow up on our phone conversation.

Kennedy,
At the time that we went to PRI, we didn’t have any extra stock Duramax intercoolers to cut up, so we had to make do with the Ford’s that we had. Sorry. The stock intercooler tubes are about 2.5” for most of their length, we use 3”.

partsguy662,
Unfortunately the data that you are asking for is not readily available. We did extensive testing during the development of the intercooler and that is where the efficiency results came from.

I see..Well if you do get the chance to do this type of test, I hope you'll post the results regardless of what you find out...I think all of us here are interested in seeing that type of comparison.
Doing a test like this would show how much the egt's drop, 1/4 mile time differences (which I doubt there would be any because of the short run), dyno numbers, etc.
I would be willing to bet that dyno numbers aren't going to be much different because you only have the airflow from the engine fan...Of course, I could be wrong about this too....

Hmmm...

What is bad about pressure drop? As you cool compressed air, it's pressure drops even with no restriction, right? And that is desireable.

Wouldn't the best data as far as restriction goes just be CFM on a flow bench at a given pressure? Or better yet, before and after dyno's with a high velocity fan going?

Seems if intercooler performance is a big issue, the first thing to do is get it in the front of the radiator "stack". Currently it's kinda buried by the AC cooler.

PS - If someone has a stock intercooler for sale, PM me. Want to do an experiment.

Got Juice,
I will be getting back in touch with you to follow up on our phone conversation.

”.

Sounds Good Peter.

As Far as data acquisition, I can find a few multichannel units, buy or borrow one to run the whole gamut.

I will be out of cell range ( I am at a net cafe as i type this ) until 4:30pm Mountain Time.

If i don't here back from you, early this week will be fine.

Have a great weekend, and thank you very much, I appreciated the call and the sharing of information! It was good indeed to talk to another enthusiast in the diesel community!:ro)

We do not modify the vehicle in any way to install the new intercooler.

You meant other than having to remove and trim the air box support bracket?

Perhaps it is not a huge modification, but to state that no modification is required is not exactly the case, at least according to the installation instructions one of the Banks reps sent me.

What will be most telling is under power while towing
+3500' ASL 6-7% grades.

Or load up some concrete blocks and go hit the Salmo Creston (kootenay mountain pass)

http://www.bankspower.com/product_images/CTC06_TechniCooler.jpg:ro) :ro) :ro) :ro) :ro) :ro) :ro) :ro)

Looks like I have been granted the opportunity to provide some small R&D for Banks on the new cooler as it relates to towing performance, and also the High Performance aspect of a BOMBed Turbodiesel!



So, I would like to thank Banks and Peter for the opportunity to participate in their program:ro) I will be under a bit of a gag order while testing out certain parameters, but rest assured, the results will be real world, repeatable, and represent the whole spectrum from Dyno to Hauling Trailers!

Partsguy662 and McRat,
When doing chassis dyno testing, we use a pair of fans that simulate 60 MPH of air being introduced into the grill of the vehicle. They are actually blowers out of a car wash with a shroud built onto the front of the assembly to duct the air. This is the only way to effectively simulate the airflow that you would have out on the road.

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McRat,
I wouldn’t characterize pressure drop as a good thing, because more air density is always good. If the pressure is higher at an equal temperature then there will be more oxygen content in the air. However, I will say that more pressure is not always better. If you are increasing the pressure, but also increasing temperature disproportionately, then density may not be improving. When it comes to intercooler testing, a flow bench doesn’t tell the whole story because you cannot simulate the temperature part of the equation. Dynamic testing is preferred. Contact me at the office and I can get you set up with a stock intercooler.

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Chisuzu,
You’re right, I stand corrected. There is a necessary modification to the base of the air box mounting tray. This allows for a more direct outlet and a larger boost tube from the charge-air cooler to the engine.

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Est. on "numbers"..............

Est. on "numbers"..............
On their numbers?

I have a precision thermometer to record temps across the core.

Will add more gauges to measure observed pressure drop.

Peter T,
You da man!!!!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/rockon.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/rockon.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/rockon.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/rockon.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/rockon.gif

The technical talks like this are the best, Especially when they are kept this friendly!!!!!!!

By the way Peter, I'm local and never have a problem with my truck being used for some good old fashion testing!!!!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/hihi.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/hihi.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/hihi.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/hihi.gif


Got Juice,

I only have one thing to say, http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/grd.gif !

This should be really interesting, especially with your twin turbo setup. I'll be extremely interested in the towing aspect and what you see in EGT differences and how the trailer pulls.

TT

A PS for Peter,
Tell marketing they need to do some "Banks Kicks Gas" T-Shirts for us DuraMax Guys!!!!!!:help:

Hmmm...

What is bad about pressure drop? As you cool compressed air, it's pressure drops even with no restriction, right? And that is desireable.

.
???? I'm sure the test for pressure drop would be a static temp test where the density of the incoming air and exiting air would be the same. Here is what you are trying to accomplish.. Cool the air without dropping psi on the other side of the IC. So yes, reducing pressure drop is a benefit

Not sure how the dynamics work, but if the air coming in is 350 deg, and you cool it to 200 deg, the pressure drops. The more the temp drops in the intercooler, the more pressure differential you should see, right? If you had a "supercooled" intercooler, you could pump a lot more air with the turbo because there will be less resistance to ramming more air in. The turbo won't have to work as hard to maintain a given mass of airflow.

Hypothetically Speaking (not real world)

If we make 600HP for a given level of fuelling at 44PSIG boost (post CAC) at 900CFM with an initial pre CAC boost level of 55 PSIG boost.

We can identify a 11PSI 'Pressure drop' across the CAC core at max Boost.


Following that line of thinking, if we Assume that the stock CAC is 65% thermally efficient and we know the pressure drop is 11 PSIG, in theory is we could drop that pressure drop to 0 and maintain the same thermal efficacy of the CAC and flow volume, we could make the same ultimate horsepower on 44 lbs initial boost pre intercooler instead of the initial 55 PSIG if we have zero pressure loss and keep the volume and thermal efficiency variables at the same value.


In the same vein, it will 'work' the compressor less having a more efficient flow with less 'boost stacking' in the CAC.... which will also help the turbo bark issue.

Now, a 0 PSIG pressure drop is impossible to achieve. We are transferring heat to metal which requires flow management and therefore some degree of restriction, but at what volume does the restriction cause the pressure drop across the core to 'spike' and consequently 'boost stack?'

I have no idea what turbo my bottom charger is, but what i can tell you is there is sufficient flow in my setup to cause the pressure drop to peak somewhere near 7 PSIG. But without the MAP of the compressor, and a Turbo tach i have absolutely no idea where the 'sweet spot' of the factory unit is in terms of absolute flow.

Since nobody can make a 0% pressure drop CAC, the other variables to increase efficiency are more than likely what BANKS has played with in order to make a better CAC.
More Surface area for better thermal rejection, Better airflow passages for improved flow dynamics.


Anyhow, i am no engineer, but i will be scrutinizing this piece thoroughly as it could mean a huge difference.... the difference between needing studs, and not needing them.:ro)

before i forget.... play a little bit on CAC's here

http://www.turbofast.com.au/tfcalc.html

Not sure how the dynamics work, but if the air coming in is 350 deg, and you cool it to 200 deg, the pressure drops. The more the temp drops in the intercooler, the more pressure differential you should see, right? If you had a "supercooled" intercooler, you could pump a lot more air with the turbo because there will be less resistance to ramming more air in. The turbo won't have to work as hard to maintain a given mass of airflow.No, not true, the closer you get to a theroretical desireable zero pressure drop and you drop the temps from 350 to 200, your volume of air should double (remember the relationship of pressure, temperture and density, its simple physics). Same outlet (pressure), however more dense air (volume).

However, if the volume of air is not changed due to a poor design that is restrictive, you will have pressure drop as you noted above. (less air mass, but denser)

If you design the IC correctly without restriction, you won't see the pressure drop as you state above, so at the same inlet pressure, you increase the density of the air due to the cooler temperturess and the subsequent increase in volume of air at the same pressure...

On edit... V=P/T, Volume equals Pressure divided by Temperture. So if you drop pressure as Mcrat notes above, as well as a coresponding drop in temp, your volume stays the same (simple math). The trick as the algerbra equation indicates, is to drop temp at the same pressure (ie less pressure drop through the IC) and volia! You increase volume and hp..

Actually, PV=nRT and defined by fizziks.

here is a good link to that

it is called the ideal gas law.

http://www.7stones.com/Homepage/Publisher/Thermo1.html


Also used in Chemistry.

This intercooler will be my next step, right after I upgrade the transmission.

Looks like I have been granted the opportunity to provide some small R&D for Banks on the new cooler as it relates to towing performance, and also the High Performance aspect of a BOMBed Turbodiesel!



So, I would like to thank Banks and Peter for the opportunity to participate in their program:ro) I will be under a bit of a gag order while testing out certain parameters, but rest assured, the results will be real world, repeatable, and represent the whole spectrum from Dyno to Hauling Trailers!


So why even say anything??? Remember this:
:nopics:

FYI, the LB7 pipes are 3" diameter that necks down to 2.5" at the engine...

I am interested in knowing if the new CAC will be a better heatsink.

V=T/P, n and R can be considered constants. Use absolute temp in Kelvin or Rankine.

In all these arguments, noone has considered a front-end makeover. Sealing up all the escape routes with foam rubber and sheet metal treatments. I believe there is a cheap efficiency increase possible with the stocker (or aftermarket), if you seal up all the edges of the CAC to the radiator. Then sheetmetal around the CAC, forward to the grill opening. Perhaps the best efficiency increase is cutting out the grill slats. These are areas that must be considered in any aftermarket design.

No, not true, the closer you get to a theroretical desireable zero pressure drop and you drop the temps from 350 to 200, your volume of air should double (remember the relationship of pressure, temperture and density, its simple physics). Same outlet (pressure), however more dense air (volume).


However, if the volume of air is not changed due to a poor design that is restrictive, you will have pressure drop as you noted above. (less air mass, but denser)

If you design the IC correctly without restriction, you won't see the pressure drop as you state above, so at the same inlet pressure, you increase the density of the air due to the cooler temperturess and the subsequent increase in volume of air at the same pressure...

On edit... V=P/T, Volume equals Pressure divided by Temperture. So if you drop pressure as Mcrat notes above, as well as a coresponding drop in temp, your volume stays the same (simple math). The trick as the algerbra equation indicates, is to drop temp at the same pressure (ie less pressure drop through the IC) and volia! You increase volume and hp..

In your Boyle's gas law (?) formula, the V is Volume, not mass. If they would have used moles, you'd be set.

It's been 30 years since I was in physics. :(

So why even say anything??? Remember this:
:nopics:

FYI, the LB7 pipes are 3" diameter that necks down to 2.5" at the engine...
Stock LB7 Pipes do neck down;)

Pics? OK, Sounds like a 3 beer project.... I'll bring the Camera!:ro)

Looks like I have been granted the opportunity to provide some small R&D for Banks on the new cooler as it relates to towing performance, and also the High Performance aspect of a BOMBed Turbodiesel!



So, I would like to thank Banks and Peter for the opportunity to participate in their program:ro) I will be under a bit of a gag order while testing out certain parameters, but rest assured, the results will be real world, repeatable, and represent the whole spectrum from Dyno to Hauling Trailers! for gods sake please dont post any pictures of banks newest overachiever we might get a view of the top secret twins-:t