Well after spending numerous hrs reading posts on different programmers, I finally bit the bullet late friday afternoon and placed an order with John Kenedy for some Juice. I went with the non-attitude version for the easy removal. The module arrived in the mail on monday and on the truck it went. I have to admit that I was a bit apprehensive about the installation....but it was a joke...was complete in less than 5 minutes. It would be nice if GM would give you a little more cable play in there.


I started on level 1 with the tow/haul set at 3 for that occasional boost and all I can say is YIKES!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif I now understand why so many say their truck runs like a raped ape. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif Anyhow...not sure why so many are concerned about their LLY arriving....go buy the 2003 for $$$ less and Juice it.


Thanks to JK and all the others on this forum for the insight, info, and wisdom on the D-max. Please note the updated signature.


AJ





ps. Was raining today....not great weather to learn the power of the Juice!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif

Lucky you it wasn't raining when you got it ,for most it happens every time ....

Congrats and enjoy

Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif Edited by: Mackin

Another juice addict! Ain't it great!


Jim

I can not wait to get the Juice/Attitude!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

Arent these harmful to engine and tranny. You cant get 1/3rd more horsepower without sacraficing longevity. GM is building up the tranny for 10hp in LLY.

How exactly does it get 90-125hp out of the engine? Dont you need to make it breathe (air/exhaust) better to keep it cool?

I should install mine tonight or tomorrow night. Wait and see.

ProblemChild,


Your glass appears to be 1/2 empty? If I bought my DMAX with the intention of driving it 200,000 miles it may not the right thing to do. Since I am yet to drive a vehicle over 40,000 miles and since I own a 100,000 miles drivetrain warranty, I feel relatively safe. I plan on using the 40 hp tune for towing and the 90 hp for taking care of some of those "Japanese Crop Dusters" in the area.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>My understanding from the more knowledgeable members of this forum is that the EGTs usually aren't an issue if you stay with these settings. JK's website http://www.kennedydiesel.com will explain how the power is made.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As far as the LLY tranny goes....I think GM is more concerned with the extra 70 lbs of torque more than the measly 10 hp but thats a different topic. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>AJ</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>ps. Your right foot (not the Jiuce) controls the amt of power that travels through the drivetrain. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Your right foot (not the Jiuce) controls the amt of power that travels through the drivetrain. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Bingo!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jim</DIV>

Our Duramax engine I would have to say is De-Rated, I would even go as far to say we have 1/3 to 1/2 the power they are really able to put out. I really do not think adding the HP/TORQ that Juice and Hypertech give you is hurting a thing. It is all about the rear ends and transmissions being able to handle 100% of the engines power. Also the power to weight ratio...we just do not need it all. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif Edited by: NoWake200

K....
Well I want to put 2-400,000 miles on mine (it cost 37k and change)i drove 10k in the first 3 months.

Now back to my question. How does the "JUICE" get the HP out of the engine?

The only way I know to ramp up HP is to ramp up compression. So either mill the heads or more turbo power. You could also pump in more fuel and hydraulic the engine into more compression.

How does the "JUICE" do it?

I could tell ya but ..............Then I'd have to kill ya ....

There's magic in that black box I tell you, magic !!!!!

Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Diesels make more power by adding more fuel.

problemchild, the factory tuning is severely conservative and "bland" for emissions and other considerations. The Edge Juice acts as a "translator" within the signal circuit for the engine management computer. It intercepts the stock signals and, using its own programing, restates the output signal going to the injection and transmission receptors. You add horsepower and torque by changing the timing and duration of the injector signal - telling the injector to open sooner and stay open longer - more fuel means more power. The factory tuning is also very sluggish at low speed and low throttle because fueling is severely restricted to reduce emissions when the turbo is not spooling and rpms are low. This makes for a very sluggish low end in factory tune. I'm no hot-rodder, but I LOVE the improved throttle response, smoother power delivery, shifting and overall improvements of the Juice both empty and towing. You have invested in your vehicle and your judgement on how you operate and maintain it are entirely yours. However - you are missing out on a marvelous overall refinement of your system to safe and durable operating parameters that the individual GM engineer would LOVE to provide but cannot under corporate and industry protocols. If the testaments of hundreds of satisfied Edge users are not enough to assuage your concerns, you are probably best to do what you feel is prudent and stay as stock as you can.

Amen Idle Chatter....the throttle response is rediculous! No more mashing the pettle 1/2 way to get the beast to move forward. It is a totally different truck now...even when you are not putting the coals to her. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif


Level 4 when the wifey is not driving!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Up.gif


AJ.

Idle chatter

Thanks for the 411.........

I have a couple of questions. I used to work at a place where the drivers would put some sort of chip in the big rigs. The mechanics were always complaining about it because the excess diesel in the cylinder would crack the tops of the pistons. It put too much pressure in the cylinder. It happened over a long period of time but neverless it still happened. Does the edge do this?

Do you have to run 4" exhaust with the edge?
Do you have to run intake?
Does the tranny start slipping and burning clutches?

I will never tow anything, I use it as a camper and 4x4.

A box that adds around 100 horse won't kill the tranny. I have the Predator, and have had it on 100 horse since the truck had 800 miles on it. It now has 11,000 miles, and I drag race alot. I also street race anything that will give me the go. The juice would be cool to have at a lower power level, then when a ricer comes up next to you, push the T/H button to another power level, and smoke em. The 100 horse Predator is very touchy. In 1st going over bumpy RR tracks, it is horrible, and in the rain, normal throttle lights the tires up. I am running a stock exhaust with no muffler, and a custom made 5" tail pipe after the straight pipe. I cut the front of the airbox open, and added a drop in K&amp;N.

problemchild, some of the earlier power boxes (VanAaken and bullydog) added power by only increasing the injection rail pressure. This added more fuel to the standard injection timing by getting more volume per unit time on the same pulse. This stressed the injection pump and system, resulted in rail leaks in some cases. Edge does not raise rail pressure. It's a lot easier to override one parameter (rail pressure) then to translate and monitor several parameters to modify injection timing. The Edge also monitors signals along the transmission control circuit and will reduce fueling when transmission slip is indicated to prevent slipping and damaging the transmission. Increased intake and reduced exhaust backpressure are not required, but are welcomed by your engine even in stock form. Any time you allow your turbocharged diesel to breathe more freely it is nothing but good for it. One thing that is important when adding a performance box is the ability to monitor exhaust gas temperature. One of the reasons that the mechanic you mentioned complained about drivers adding a box and damaging the engines is that a diesel will work itself to self-destruction *IF YOU LET IT* Note: The imprudent and irresponsible actions of the operator are not included in any reasonable device's programming. Many non-owner/operator truck drivers do not have a vested interest in their rigs and can be very abusive on equipment. Under load, adding fuel must be done judiciously and with reason. The stock Duramax will not damage itself pulling a design load up a steep grade at full throttle (it will also do it at a factory-regulated lower level of performance and with frequent downshifts and other drivability and comfort issues). If you are running an Edge box at Level 3 or higher, you can drive egts to dangerous levels under load and may very likely damage your engine IF YOU ARE NOT MONITORING temperatures and take appropriate corrective action by backing off the throttle. I have towed several times in level 3 and only a few occasions had to back off the throttle somewhat to keep egts from exceeding 1250 degrees. The corrective action was necessary accelerating up an uphill ramp onto an uphill section of interstate. I only had to *reduce* the rate of acceleration to control temperature and continued to accelerate at a lively and acceptable rate to merge into traffic. The improved lower and mid-range power offered by the EDGE makes towing in level 2 and 3 a dream in comparison to the stock performance with the transmission staying in OD on cruise control in almost all instances with very few downshifts which occur very frequently with the stock tuning. The Edge makes the experience of owning one of these great trucks a whole different world of smooth, reliable and efficent power. As I said before, and I'm not going to invest any more time and energy into debating - you own your truck, you do what you feel you should or shouldn't do.

ProblemChild,





Come on....give it a try....a little bit won't hurt you. You WILL have to inhale though! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


JUICE THE BEAST!! Full speed ahead.





AJ

By making more power with less pedal, it is conceivable that you may actually enhance longevity.





Optimizing timing makes some HP w/o added fuel, PLUS if you use less pedal, you run at the absolute minimum shift map and get up into OD that much quicker. You can also pass w/o dropping into 4th etc. The Juicealso does a VERY nice job of enhancing power in the lower RPM ranges around torque peak which is also where the turbo is happiest, and most efficient.





As for cabling lengths etc, if you route the large red B+ cable from the preheat system outboard of the blue silicon hose, and/or pull the harness loom peg out, you'll have tons of room. Every time I install on someone else's truck I keep asking myself why it seems more difficult, and then I remember...

Problemchild,

I have run the juice to Utah and back 4 times (from San Antonio) pulling a 13500# 5th wheel. I never exceeded 1250 degrees and ran less than 1000 degrees 95% of the time. The truck got better fuel mileage and shifted rarely once at crusing speed. I think it will actually make the engine last longer (running as cool with a load in 5th as it would in 4th at higher rpms) and the trans will likely last MUCH longer because it isn't in and out of 4th - 5th 30 or 40 times a day for each day I'm towing. I do run a freer flowing air filter (Uni now, Amsoil before) and a 4" exhaust. You MUST have a guage to monitor your EGTs (I would have one even with a stock rig if I towed the weight I tow in the Rockies). Times and technology has changed over the years. Tom Ashley said it very well, listen to him. Make your own choice but don't feel that the Juice, properly supported (air, exhaust), and properly motivated (easy on the rt. foot) will hurt your engine or trans. I don't think it will do anything but help. Those who run races with it are no different than the hot rodders of my youth (who, me?). They make a choice as do we.

Keep up your research but do so with a mind that is open to new and exciting opportunities.

Regards,
Bob

Probably should move this to the power programmer forum.


Jess

Problemchild,


I just hooked up my Juice and Man Alive... It is almost like night and day for the power it increased. My Brother-inlaw has a Ford Lighting, and I took him for a ride on level 4 and he told me for a 8000# truck this thing really pulls. A Ford Lighting is rated as the worlds fastest production truck. and he is impressed with Juice Power. We going to do dyno's this weekend.

If you also install the Attitude the little box will monitor the EGTs for you. With the settings you give it, the power will back off automaticlly when the EGTs are reached. Along with being able to monitor 15 or so inputs.

New Here so go easy,


After reading these post I have come to the conclusion that it is time for some juice. Just not sure of the right way to go at this time. My main interest in one is to help compensate for the loss of power I will recieve once I install a set of H2 Wheels with 315-70-17 on my truck. However as some have stated juice is additive and my plans may change in the near future. I use my truck to tow a Bass Boat that weighs about 3500-4000 tournament ready. That is the most weight I carry in it at this time. My main questions since I wll more than likely use Power Level 1 or 2 at this time are:


1. Should I just get the Standard Juice or Hot Juice with or without the Attitude.


2. I like the functions of the Attitude but I am unsure if I will use all of them. I don't think that I would drill the hole for the probe as I am concerned that some dealers may use this to void the warranty. I am in the military and get moved to different stations between overseas assignments quite often. Therefore at this time I don't think that I would install the probe.


3. Also If I only use the lower power levels do I really need to install a set of gauges.


I plan on keeping this truck for a while so any advice is greatly appriciated.


Thanks


Appriciate the advice

A couple of thoughts here, some based on experience and some based on what I've been able to learn both here and in talking to Edge.


1. Unless you're drag racing and want to put in the transmission mods, you don't need the Hot Juice. Some say that if it's there (extra power) you'll use it at some point. I tend to agree with that thought.


2. As far as I'm concerned, the EGT function of the Attitude is what makes it the only way to go. Not only can you monitor the temp, but you can set it to de-fuel the engine at what ever temp you decide that you don't want to exceed. Past experience with a turbocharged diesel pickup (aftermarket turbo) has shown me just how quickly you could cook an engine that's turbocharged. No guage means you've got no warning. Even if you elect to not use the Attitude for possible warranty considerations, I'd install an EGT guage. They can't slam you for that. One of the members here suggested that you just leave the probe in place and tell the dealer that it's for an EGT guage you've not finished installing if questions arise. That works if your Attitude is mounted in such a way as to be able to remove it. That's the plan I think I'll use. The other thing folks seem to mention is the ability to change the power level from inside the cab at the touch of a button can be really helpful in areas where road conditions can change rapidly, i.e. snow storm or heavy rain where extra power can be a detriment to handling. I like that idea as well.


3. I think I covered that in #2...