I suspect the Government overseer "car czar as the bubbly media has named it" will not allow a new pickup truck - SUV engine. Too much CO2 for the global warming hoax.

In the superior minds of our Government, pickup trucks - SUV's are the enemy and no money will be allowed to be spent on any development along these lines.

You watch.

i call bull s***

Sad but probably true. When the prius is the shining example of how a car should be in this country according to the law makers. The politicians think they know best. Following the "green" hype will put an end to all those evil SUV's that americans loved so much less than ten years ago.:rant:

I don't think it's toast just yet, pushed back to 2011 or 2012 for sure.

As far a the Pirus goes... it's not all that great. If the Chevy Volt comes true it will put the pirus to shame.

As far as the EPA and CARB goes.. I have to agree, they are trying to kill the kill the Diesel Engine. Its ashame too, but all the exhaust aftertreatment components that will be necessary to meet the 2010MY standards are going to drive the cost of ownership upwards.

As far as Global Warming goes... we'll I probably won't make much friends saying this (well maybe Bob Lutz), it's a joke or a hoax so they can instill an emissions tax.

screw the fed and global warming

screw the fed and global warming

x2

x3, planet is gonna heat up any ways, its ok, its too damn cold here in the winter anyway,,,

X4! Global warming is a cyclical deal like the stock market and real estate.

X5! It doesn't matter that through the planets history it has warmed and cooled, warmed and cooled, and guess what, warmed and cooled again. It what the planet does!!!It warms, then it cools and goes into an ice age. It the planets way of making sure that only the strongest species survive!

how many of the congress menor senators drive priuses and how many ride by them selves in bi suv or limos. so they should lead by example or stfu. while on the subject of government! why are they the only people i know that can give themselves a raise. They are public servants and elected officals we elect them the should only be paid about 35 to 45 k a year it is a fair amount for thenm to serve us. then we can start to fix the budget and the economy and helth care when they cannot afford there private care casue they are just above the poverty level themselves just my 2 cents

I don't think it's toast just yet, pushed back to 2011 or 2012 for sure.

As far a the Pirus goes... it's not all that great. If the Chevy Volt comes true it will put the pirus to shame.

As far as the EPA and CARB goes.. I have to agree, they are trying to kill the kill the Diesel Engine. Its ashame too, but all the exhaust aftertreatment components that will be necessary to meet the 2010MY standards are going to drive the cost of ownership upwards.

As far as Global Warming goes... we'll I probably won't make much friends saying this (well maybe Bob Lutz), it's a joke or a hoax so they can instill an emissions tax.

the 2010 emissions standards is tough on diesels. Cat has announced they will stop supplying over the road engines before 2010. Detroit will not offer diesel engines to emergency vehicles (big stuff). Cummins is the only supplier at this point supplying 2010 engines for custom fire trucks.

Diesels are getting really complicated!

Effing sad.

A new completely non-emissions regulated turbo diesel could be more environmentally friendly than any new car on the road today.

I've got an idea for a new 'busniess model' for GM. Frame off Resto's for old trucks with new truck parts minus the emissions equipment. Imagine for 40k you go to GM with properly prep'd 68 chevy 1 ton frame and they outfit you with a brand new non-emissions duramax mated to an allison. A fully loaded new style cab, body, etc with airbags or whatever safety equipment you choose (i would sub the airbags for five point harnesses in every seat). New axles, IFS or whatever else. plumb the abs and be on your way.

Of course the shortage of old frames would come quick... but you just need the title. I don't think anyone would ask you to prove there's any piece of the original frame in there.

I agree with the governments fingers all over this the SUV line up will be extinct at least from the Big Three

The development costs have already been covered - I'd be more concerned about the 6.6 Duramax becoming extinct and the new, higher mpg 4.5 taking it's spot. The SUV's may shrink - and go with smaller engines with electric hybrid setups, but there will be a market for efficient and powerful diesels for working trucks.

Effing sad.

I've got an idea for a new 'business model' for GM. Frame off Resto's for old trucks with new truck parts minus the emissions equipment. Imagine for 40k you go to GM with properly prep'd 68 chevy 1 ton frame and they outfit you with a brand new non-emissions duramax mated to an allison. A fully loaded new style cab, body, etc with airbags or whatever safety equipment you choose (i would sub the airbags for five point harnesses in every seat). New axles, IFS or whatever else. plumb the abs and be on your way.

Of course the shortage of old frames would come quick... but you just need the title. I don't think anyone would ask you to prove there's any piece of the original frame in there.

A new completely non-emissions regulated turbo diesel could be more environmentally friendly than any new car on the road today. I don't think so, today's diesels are by far cleaner than the older ones. More costly, but cleaner. Somebody would have to figure out how to clean up the emissions of an old diesel without all of the exhaust aftertreatment expense, I'm not sure if its even possible.

As far as the second part of your quote goes, that would be a great idea, I'm sure GM could find the means of reproducing those old frames. But, lets go back to what we are talking about, the problem is the government would not let GM sell them. But, the thought is a good one.


Since we are speaking about the fed's, on another note:
What concerns me is that the fed's are going to give the money to the big three. The money is going to come with stipulations, what this means is the fed's are going to dictated and have more control in what the GM, the Blue Oval, and Mopar are doing. That is really scary, If I was GM I just might be saying OK fed's I'm done and watch our economy fall from a recession to a depression. Michigan would die. Congress does not see the tail spin of the Big Three going under, that is sad.

#1.
I don't think so, today's diesels are by far cleaner than the older ones. More costly, but cleaner. Somebody would have to figure out how to clean up the emissions of an old diesel without all of the exhaust aftertreatment expense, I'm not sure if its even possible.
#2.
As far as the second part of your quote goes, that would be a great idea, I'm sure GM could find the means of reproducing those old frames. But, lets go back to what we are talking about, the problem is the government would not let GM sell them. But, the thought is a good one.

#3.
Since we are speaking about the fed's, on another note:
What concerns me is that the fed's are going to give the money to the big three. The money is going to come with stipulations, what this means is the fed's are going to dictated and have more control in what the GM, the Blue Oval, and Mopar are doing. That is really scary, If I was GM I just might be saying OK fed's I'm done and watch our economy fall from a recession to a depression. Michigan would die. Congress does not see the tail spin of the Big Three going under, that is sad.

#1. I'm not disagreeing with this statement, but our little diesels are not the problematic producers of NOx emmisions (Ref. http://www.mde.state.md.us/Air/air_information/toptennox.asp). The average everday diesel driven by you or I does not even make the list, but GASOLINE vehicles do! The other pollutant produced by diesel vehicles is soot. This is only produced when combustion is not at the proper temperature. Considering todays injector and turbo technology, we don't produce very much soot at all. Ask the guys running DPF's. Thier soot is measured regularly. Consider how much is produced by heavy duty diesels and gasoline vehilces.
#2.This is a pipe dream of mine. GM would never do it. But lets say i opened a performance shop. You bring me your '65 frame (or just a title ;)) and i build you a truck for 40k-50k that meets all the same usage requirements but has no emmisions requirements because it's a "1965" model. All the money GM spent on exec's, huge empty buildings, market analysts, emmisions developement, and the resources required to make them is spared, as well as whatever environmental impact they may or may not have.
#3. This is bad. It's worse that people are gonna loose thier jobs. Hopefully, the new American private organization that does what the gov't subsidzed one does twice as well for half the cost will employ more people and keep their heads on straight and their feet on the ground to do it. This would be a great time for a company like the Hudson of old days to step in and do something novel with the business since nothing else is working at the moment.

tanner 4.5 has cylinder pressure transducers to reduce peak cylinder pressure, thereby reducing NOx. by the way NOx reduction is gained by decrease in engine efficiency, that is why car mfgr's are having hard time exceding CAFE standards, arrows have gone past and are going away from each other(clean air, one way and fuel economy the other way). blueski's, congress changed voting on pay in 1989, after 3months debate, they now get COLA rate and have to vote not to get it. think in next couple years when prius start to require new batteries, the fondness will errode, incase you don't know that is what GM is working on for its hybrid's and full electric vehicles, economical replacement cost for batteries. i have heard expectation of $5-10,000 to rebattery a prius, new batt's and recycle/hazmat fee's. if GM made retro rods it would not be exempt from new vehicle standards. would like to see GM offer 4.5 in cady or new camaro, with 6spd auto(6L90) should provide good fuel economy. but when fed's get fingers twirling mix i expect to see LADA's or YUGO's built, take vehicle in for warranty and have to have means test done! just for note electric motors emit ozone so after diesel/gas engine's are gasping, treehuggers will be killing electric transportation.

#1.
tanner 4.5 has cylinder pressure transducers to reduce peak cylinder pressure, thereby reducing NOx. by the way NOx reduction is gained by decrease in engine efficiency, that is why car mfgr's are having hard time exceding CAFE standards, arrows have gone past and are going away from each other(clean air, one way and fuel economy the other way).
#2.
blueski's, congress changed voting on pay in 1989, after 3months debate, they now get COLA rate and have to vote not to get it. think in next couple years when prius start to require new batteries, the fondness will errode, incase you don't know that is what GM is working on for its hybrid's and full electric vehicles, economical replacement cost for batteries. i have heard expectation of $5-10,000 to rebattery a prius, new batt's and recycle/hazmat fee's. if GM made retro rods it would not be exempt from new vehicle standards. would like to see GM offer 4.5 in cady or new camaro, with 6spd auto(6L90) should provide good fuel economy. but when fed's get fingers twirling mix i expect to see LADA's or YUGO's built, take vehicle in for warranty and have to have means test done! just for note electric motors emit ozone so after diesel/gas engine's are gasping, treehuggers will be killing electric transportation.

#1.
I agree that emissions requirements currently instated and required for the future are more detrimental than they are good. I didn't go so far as to state it, but i meant to.
#2.
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/10/27/nanosafe-battery-tests-show-minimal-loss-of-charge-capacity/
if your battery cost $30k but last 15000 cycles (2 cycles per day, conservatively 20 years) running deep cycles and charges in 20 minutes... everyone looses money but you. Make this go into mass production and who knows what the possibilities are. People may actually start advancing technology again, instead of dwelling on jumping rope double and triple dutch with the US Gov't.

The answer would be in small 4 cylinder turbo diesel cars and small trucks, if our federal gov. would allow them to be used. They are the root of this problem. Just look at the efficient cars in Europe that are diesel powered. Some are even produced by GM! I felt the 4.5L would be quite efficient with some "deletes", but now if it ever comes out it will probably be even more restricted.

Government is not the answer to the problem, government is the problem.

I would have to agree, I don't see anything new and cutting edge coming out of any of the big 3 as they will need to scale back if this deal goes through. However Ford does already claim to have something set for release by 2010, some little car so we will see.

I suspect the Government overseer "car czar as the bubbly media has named it" will not allow a new pickup truck - SUV engine. Too much CO2 for the global warming hoax.

In the superior minds of our Government, pickup trucks - SUV's are the enemy and no money will be allowed to be spent on any development along these lines.

You watch.


I agree. They probably won't be overt (damn lawyers are too slick for that). I'll bet they up CAFE standards and eliminate the exemption on trucks over a certain GVW. That will force them to produce more 1000 pound 2 cyl 125 mpg death traps.

Man caused Global warming -- Pure Fiction. Do 2 minutes of study and you can find detailed temperature graphs going back 1,000,000 years. Guess what? The temperatures spiked and dipped when our ancestors were still trowing shit on lions from the branch of some tree in Africa.

If you want proof of the GW conspiracy, look up the Medieval Warm period. Temps were higher then than now! Where is it in the graphs now?

Man caused Global warming -- Pure Fiction. Do 2 minutes of study and you can find detailed temperature graphs going back 1,000,000 years. Guess what? The temperatures spiked and dipped when our ancestors were still trowing shit on lions from the branch of some tree in Africa.

If you want proof of the GW conspiracy, look up the Medieval Warm period. Temps were higher then than now! Where is it in the graphs now?

Yup, well said, and like man is able to fix global warming?

Just how much pollution and soot goes into the air with one volcano or a forest fire?

I have to agree with the temperature and weather cycles that the earth has gone through and will go though. Ex. It just so happened that during the great depression when folks couldn't afford a/c temps spiked and there was no rain. The mid west turned into a dust bowl, sand storms that blew large amounts of sand into the peoples homes through closed windows because the windows back then didn't seal very well.

:exactly:Government is not the answer to the problem, government is the problem.

Yup, well said, and like man is able to fix global warming?

Just how much pollution and soot goes into the air with one volcano or a forest fire?

I have to agree with the temperature and weather cycles that the earth has gone through and will go though. Ex. It just so happened that during the great depression when folks couldn't afford a/c temps spiked and there was no rain. The mid west turned into a dust bowl, sand storms that blew large amounts of sand into the peoples homes through closed windows because the windows back then didn't seal very well.
+1

I'll start worrying about global warming when that Blow hard hypocrite Gore starts living what he preaches. :rolleyes:

The truth is, THERE IS NO MAN MADE GLOBAL WARMING.

Peer Reviewed, report after report are coming out weekly denying global warming.

It's all about the money, grant money for "scientists" to study global warming and tax money for our Government (carbon tax).


http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=2158072e-802a-23ad-45f0-274616db87e6

The truth is, THERE IS NO MAN MADE GLOBAL WARMING.


Peer Reviewed, report after report are coming out weekly denying global warming.

It's all about the money, grant money for "scientists" to study global warming and tax money for our Government (carbon tax).


http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=2158072e-802a-23ad-45f0-274616db87e6

That's quiet a conspiracy theory, but i think I'm gonna have to charge the gov't for a million dollar study to prove it exists :P *insert sarcasm

The truth is, THERE IS NO MAN MADE GLOBAL WARMING.

Peer Reviewed, report after report are coming out weekly denying global warming.

It's all about the money, grant money for "scientists" to study global warming and tax money for our Government (carbon tax).


Originally Posted by kevin http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3007738#post3007738)
Government is not the answer to the problem, government is the problem.


That's what I'm saying! :exactly:

In other countries half the small cars have diesels in them. They get much better mileage not sure about emissions bullsh#t. I think the baby dmax will still be out. It gets alot better mileage than a gasser truck, as long as it gets 28mpg

You know after reading about the rants, I thought about this. Yes, we're frustrated with the whole global warming lies and we are angry about the run around that congress is giving the big three about a loan, NOT a bail out as the news media calls it.

But, Now, think about this, all in all, is there anywhere else in the world that you would want to live in?? The USA is still the greatest place to live in the world. We'll get though this mess in time.

Let me tell you a little story about myself and what just happened to me, I'll be brief.

I was a tech at a Lincoln/Mercury Dealership for over 20 years. I went to school and started working at GM in 2000. I started developing service information (engine controls) for the Caddies. A few years go by, I was asked to help with the Duramax Service Info in addition to the Caddies. What! I don't know anything about diesels I thought, but, I'll learn. I developed the service info (engine controls) for the Duramax from 2004 till last week. I was told I that due to a head count reduction I was on borrowed time. GM is doing everything necessary to stay in business.

It was the best job I ever had, the whole Duramax team are great folks to work with, to know, and they all love the product. GM is a great company, if it were not for the credit freeze and the rest of mess that were in, I would still be there. I drive a Caddie (my avatar), But I've had many chances to drive the Duramax. I would buy a Duramax if I could afford it, I love those trucks. Oh well, another chapter comes to close.

What's next? Maybe service info development for that flame thrower Powerstroke, who knows? But, I know things will work out just fine.

By the way, I'm not leaving the Diesel Place, I'm hooked, you guys are alot of fun.

Regards,

God Bless the USA!! :saluteusa:
and see the USA in a :chevy:

Chevrolet = Good trucks
Cadillac = good cars
pontiac = a sham except what they got from holden.

I'm not a fan of anything on the road but GM trucks, the vettes, some of the cadillac's and two of the pontiacs (only one they still make).

The 4.5l is great because it's design was for a purpose! It fills a gap in diesel technology in the US consumer market.

GM's choice to make the pontiac g6, the saturn aura, and the chev. (i can't remember the name) all the same car was a good one, don't know about the reliability of them yet.

It still seems to me they could have made an effort a lot sooner to save themselves and also to spend money a lot more effectively and conservatively.

I'm disappointed to see them where they are at and even more enraged to know that our US gov't hamstrung them with the EPA.

The root cause of the problem is created by money and will not be solved with it.

If GM can get this 4.5 off the ground and get it running on B20 or even B50. That would be amazing.

My belief is Algae biofuels will reign supreme. Algae biofuels can make diesel, gasoline, jet fuel, whatever. They soak up 80% of the CO2 they will eventually emit, and its natural fuel.

Im going to laugh my a$$ off when an new group of tree hugging hippies finds out just how much polution is caused by producing these hybrid batteries.

Thats all we need... millions of people having to change big batteries every 3-5 years.
Where are they going to be disposed?
What about all the chemicals in the batteries?

If its not one thing its another.

Glasses should be free in this country, there are so many short sighted people.

If the new Li-poly batteries are like the ones we use in hobbies, then they are really not bad on the enviroment when you need to dispose of them. Discharge to 0v, slit the matallic case, soak in salt water and dispose.

But Alage bio fuels sound pretty cool, I mean I used to add clorine to the pool to kill it, now I can put it in may tank, sweet.

You know after reading about the rants, I thought about this. Yes, we're frustrated with the whole global warming lies and we are angry about the run around that congress is giving the big three about a loan, NOT a bail out as the news media calls it.

But, Now, think about this, all in all, is there anywhere else in the world that you would want to live in?? The USA is still the greatest place to live in the world. We'll get though this mess in time.

Let me tell you a little story about myself and what just happened to me, I'll be brief.

I was a tech at a Lincoln/Mercury Dealership for over 20 years. I went to school and started working at GM in 2000. I started developing service information (engine controls) for the Caddies. A few years go by, I was asked to help with the Duramax Service Info in addition to the Caddies. What! I don't know anything about diesels I thought, but, I'll learn. I developed the service info (engine controls) for the Duramax from 2004 till last week. I was told I that due to a head count reduction I was on borrowed time. GM is doing everything necessary to stay in business.

It was the best job I ever had, the whole Duramax team are great folks to work with, to know, and they all love the product. GM is a great company, if it were not for the credit freeze and the rest of mess that were in, I would still be there. I drive a Caddie (my avatar), But I've had many chances to drive the Duramax. I would buy a Duramax if I could afford it, I love those trucks. Oh well, another chapter comes to close.

What's next? Maybe service info development for that flame thrower Powerstroke, who knows? But, I know things will work out just fine.

By the way, I'm not leaving the Diesel Place, I'm hooked, you guys are alot of fun.

Regards,

God Bless the USA!! :saluteusa:
and see the USA in a :chevy:

I'm sorry to hear the news. It's great that you have such a positive attitude about things. I'm sure that you will easily land on your feet.

pontiac = a sham except what they got from holden.


Try again. My Holden, and my Pontiac dealer, are inferior to even Ford products and dealers.

the 2010 emissions standards is tough on diesels. Cat has announced they will stop supplying over the road engines before 2010. Detroit will not offer diesel engines to emergency vehicles (big stuff). Cummins is the only supplier at this point supplying 2010 engines for custom fire trucks.

Diesels are getting really complicated!
Caterpillar has decided to discontinue production for on highway or OTR engines because they are only a very small part of their business. They are focusing more on their bigger more profitable pieces of equipment. But you are for the most part right the R&D for the on highway engines is a big factor in this.

Try again. My Holden, and my Pontiac dealer, are inferior to even Ford products and dealers.

yes.

Im going to laugh my a$$ off when an new group of tree hugging hippies finds out just how much polution is caused by producing these hybrid batteries.

I watched something on TV, I can't remember what it was but it was comparing two vehicles from dust to dust sort of speak. They were comparing the H2 and the Prius. One supposedly the iconic symbol of using the most fuel and resources in the world, the other using the least.

From beginning to end, the one that used the most energy and polluted the most was the Prius. One Prius goes around the world twice (literally around the world) before it ends up as a car on a dealer lot. The H2 started and end east of the Mississippi...no contest. Then they based the cost per mile or 10 or 20 yrs I don't recall exactly, and this was using $5/gal gas mind you, the Prius cost was still over $4/mile where as the H2 was under $2. The H2 ironically created less pollution over its lifetime due to the realtive insignificant amount of manufacturing and resources it needed to be born and well as to keep it going.

Just because its the next best thing and the coolest gadget on the shelf, doesn't mean its any better than what we have right now. If you shine up a piece if turd, you still only have a shiny piece of turd.

its sad that we have the potential to build fuel efficient vehicles but the hippies are afraid to get a little diesel on their hands.

I watched something on TV, I can't remember what it was but it was comparing two vehicles from dust to dust sort of speak. They were comparing the H2 and the Prius. One supposedly the iconic symbol of using the most fuel and resources in the world, the other using the least.

From beginning to end, the one that used the most energy and polluted the most was the Prius. One Prius goes around the world twice (literally around the world) before it ends up as a car on a dealer lot. The H2 started and end east of the Mississippi...no contest. Then they based the cost per mile or 10 or 20 yrs I don't recall exactly, and this was using $5/gal gas mind you, the Prius cost was still over $4/mile where as the H2 was under $2. The H2 ironically created less pollution over its lifetime due to the realtive insignificant amount of manufacturing and resources it needed to be born and well as to keep it going.

Just because its the next best thing and the coolest gadget on the shelf, doesn't mean its any better than what we have right now. If you shine up a piece if turd, you still only have a shiny piece of turd.

That was CNW Market Research.

They no longer claim that (for newer modles of prius vs. H2 anyway).
http://www.cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/

i bet alot of us will be driving a Toyota Diesel in the near future!!

Not me i will stick to the 6.5 if i have too. Just buy 6.5 engines from the military.

i bet alot of us will be driving a Toyota Diesel in the near future!!

I would rather run a horse and buggy.

I would rather run a horse and buggy.
or walk

I would rather run a horse and buggy.That might be in our future too.

the only bad thing is those treehuggers want to shove a cat converter up the horse's rear.

The 4.5 will still have its place in the truck market.

If it does meet the chopping block, its because of supplier difficulties. So many of the suppliers are going out of business.

GM should be able to save this engine. They will cut brands, not new product development.

Im still driving my 2000 Tahoe with the 5.7L 350. Never was interested in the 5.3L, it feels to me like it lacks in the torque department. 6.0L is a gas hog, and so is the 6.2L. The 4.5L TD is exactly what im looking for, as the 6.6L not necessary for what I tow. Im sure im not the only american holding off to buy a new chevy with this motor.

:coolnana:I say it's still alive after today!!!:coolnana:

the only bad thing is those treehuggers want to shove a cat converter up the horse's rear.:lol2::lol2::lol2:

i bet alot of us will be driving a Toyota Diesel in the near future!!
are you an american?

I just read that Ford is putting it's diesel F-150 on hold permanently. You can thank the EPA for it's unreasonable emissions requirements. Hold on to those Duramax's boys.

are you an american?

are you an idiot??:rolleyes:

it is kind of hard to buy a product from a company that doesn't exist anymore.

IF toyota was the only one with a diesel truck for sale when it was time to replace my duramax, that's what i would buy.

It's pretty hard to tow a boat or a 5th wheel with a horse, let alone to walk and pull.

watch the name calling guys, please.

the feds telling Gm to put the 4.5 on hold would be a waste of $$ They have spent so much on development already. That would just be bad business practices (shit they may just make them do it!!)

watch the name calling guys, please.

sorry:o:

the feds telling Gm to put the 4.5 on hold would be a waste of $$ They have spent so much on development already. That would just be bad business practices (shit they may just make them do it!!)


i hope they do because i want that suburban with it!!:)

I do believe that motor is toast. Market has changed yet again! Truck gets 20% better mileage yet diesel is 40% more at least here in the Northeast. Motor has nice specs but it is still only a 1/2 ton truck. 1/2 ton payload, 1/2 ton trans, 1/2 ton brakes, etc.

I like the idea of the motor and maybe it could pull my 5'er but with that payload, trans and brakes then it really couldn't pull it so well for too long.

Yup world demand for diesel. US refiners exported 450,000 gallons of diesel a day in 2008.

Now you know why diesel has not come down compared to gasoline. Only good news is that some companies are ramping up investment to increase their diesel output. Hopefully that will bring more parity in the price differences.

i bet alot of us will be driving a Toyota Diesel in the near future!!


No sir, I would hope no american would every buy a Toyota, I would be embarrased to be seen in one, if I need to tow I would get a pete:driver:

I know some of you don't like dieselpowermag but the 4.5 was still in there as upcoming

Sad but probably true. When the prius is the shining example of how a car should be in this country according to the law makers. The politicians think they know best. Following the "green" hype will put an end to all those evil SUV's that americans loved so much less than ten years ago.:rant:


TO bad "green" specifically the pruis, is more detramental to the enviroment then a hummer h2

http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188

oldy, but a goody

The mindset of POLS is messed up. They are the ones that just allowed Hybrid cars to use the HOV lane! Where is the logic in that decision?

TO bad "green" specifically the pruis, is more detramental to the enviroment then a hummer h2

http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188

oldy, but a goody

Very good why isn't our fine government stuidying, that? I think instead of worring about regulating exhaust pollution, they should take a look a factory pollution, and not just in the auto industry. Think of how many "stinky" diesels it takes to equal the smoke stakes on a manufacturing facility. How about if we apply some of our great "green" technology to those.