<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->Just got back from first tow with the deep pan. It ran 10-15 degrees cooler than with the OEM. A worthwhile investment for you guys that tow a lot. Later! Frank

<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->Just got back from first tow with the deep pan. It ran 10-15 degrees cooler than with the OEM. A worthwhile investment for you guys that tow a lot. Later! Frank
You must have bought one of those special Mark Craig pans, my MagHytek or PML don't do that.

Outside weather conditions play a big part in transmission temperature as well as the area the towing is done in. The only true way is to tow the same route the same day and check. When useing Baker grade between Los Angeles and Las Vegas for testing there was no evidence of a cooler running transmission with a stock pan Vs. deep pan Vs MagHi Vs PML. The grade is 6 - 8 % for about 20 miles outside temperatures runs into the 100 - 115 range in the summer there so it's a great test bed for seeing what does and doesn't make changes.

I will give you an example Mike of what I saw towing my 10.5K 5th wheel on a recent trip. I was cruising at 68 MPH in 5th on mostly flat freeway. It would lay right on 150. This part of my trip is exactly the same route, month etc. that I have done three years in a row now. Never ever with the trailer on would it run this low. I have pulls this trailer close to 13K now in ambient temps from 40 to 105. I might change my tune when the weather warms. I will keep all interested informed. I agree with what you said Diesel Tech about testing in similar conditions but only to a degree. If you have maxed out the cooling system you won't have a clue if a small change has helped or not. Very few times has my trans temp gone over 200. Each time I was running low speeds and pulling hard. I absolutely hate slow speed stop and go. Later! Frank

This test must be run with a scanner as I have. There are too many variations with the factory gauge, not that the factory unit is not good, just not accurate enough for real testing.
mike

I have yet to notice any difference with any pan. And thats using the scanner for data which is not just a needle

What I have noticed over the years of towing with the DMAX in the CA desert is a strong correlation between outside air temp and tranny temp. I have seen large variations in tranny temperature running the same route with same load, just different outside air temps. I suspect that the outside air temp has more to do with it than anything else, given the statements from Mike L, Diesel Tech and Dmaxallitech.

During the winter months, it can be freezing outside and the tranny temp stays in the lower 1/4 of the gauge. During the summer months with temps over 100 degrees, it can approach 200 degrees.

Worst case tranny temps are with tranny not in tow haul (no trailer), driving in local hills around the house during the summer (torque converter not locked using TTS Tow program).

Good discussion. :rolleyes: Last summer I converted to Transynd ATF and installed the Allison deep pan, which BTW is standard on the Allison 1000's except for our trucks. While the tranny takes longer to get up to operating temp, once there it doesn't appear the deeper pan provides much more, if any, additional cooling capacity. :(

OC_DMAX's statement about the sensitivity of the Allison to outside temps has been my experience as well. One thing I didn't see mentioned was the effect the A/C and I/C have on both engine and tranny temps, especially when towing, even moreso up grades at higher elevations. This goes back to our discussion on "Overheating LLY's" from last summer. :rolleyes:

I have noticed when towing my 5ver that without the A/C running my tranny temps stay between 150*-170* with ambient temps below 80*, 50% humidity. Turn on the A/C above 80* and the tranny temps rise significantly, say 190*-205*. Start climbing a grade and increase boost with the A/C on and watch the engine/tranny temps climb. Highest engine temps I have seen were 230*, highest tranny temps 225*-230*. :o:
Later. JJ :)

Good discussion. :rolleyes: Last summer I converted to Transynd ATF and installed the Allison deep pan, which BTW is standard on the Allison 1000's except for our trucks. While the tranny takes longer to get up to operating temp, once there it doesn't appear the deeper pan provides much more, if any, additional cooling capacity. :(

OC_DMAX's statement about the sensitivity of the Allison to outside temps has been my experience as well. One thing I didn't see mentioned was the effect the A/C and I/C have on both engine and tranny temps, especially when towing, even moreso up grades at higher elevations. This goes back to our discussion on "Overheating LLY's" from last summer. :rolleyes:

I have noticed when towing my 5ver that without the A/C running my tranny temps stay between 150*-170* with ambient temps below 80*, 50% humidity. Turn on the A/C above 80* and the tranny temps rise significantly, say 190*-205*. Start climbing a grade and increase boost with the A/C on and watch the engine/tranny temps climb. Highest engine temps I have seen were 230*, highest tranny temps 225*-230*. :o:
Later. JJ :)
JJ thats right in line with what I got on my trip to Florida the past 2 weeks, w/o a/c 150-180 with a/c 180-210 depending on speed and grade. The truck has the deep pan and full syn oils. What temps have you seen for eng on the edge, I poped the warning on most any grede when temps were over 70 outside.

I think the point Mike and Diesel Tech are attempting to make is that there is no proof that a deep pan does anything. I have read other threads where people have added deep pans and have seen temp drops until all that extra fluid got hot then they noticed that it took longer to cool it back down.
JJ should remember this too.

IMHO, the real solution to a cooler running tranny will be a cooler upgrade, especially if you have a deep pan. The OE cooler we have on there is just too wimpy to cool the beast down when its cooking, especially with more fluid in there!

I think summer is the real acid test, thats when most of the overheating posts pop up.

Will someone finally prove that a deep pan offers a measurable benefit? Who knows. :confused:

Is it worth it to run the risk of not adding a deep pan only to find out later that it does in fact help? Not to me. :exactly:

Will I be adding one? Already have it sitting at the house. If there is a benefit, I want it. If there isn't, it still looks pretty cool! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif

Scott

Well said. I have never tried to talk anyone out of putting a deep pan on; I run a PML pan myself and I installed one on Diesel Tech's truck and many others as well. I am only trying to state that it will not dramaticaly drop temps down as has been posted by some people. I like having the extra fluid and I believe it does help, but not that much.
mike

why is everyone so concerned with 200+ temperatures in the trans. since when did steel start melting at that temperature? as long as the oil is in there and it's not burnt it ought to do it's job.

btw at what temperature does oil start to loose it's effectivness?

why is everyone so concerned with 200+ temperatures in the trans. since when did steel start melting at that temperature? as long as the oil is in there and it's not burnt it ought to do it's job.

btw at what temperature does oil start to loose it's effectivness?
It starts to break down (correct me if I am wrong) above 175 and starts to really go south above 190. At least that is what I remember from older dino ATF, at least I think I remember.):h

Above 200, the ATF life would be extremely short and it may not be providing the lubrication required.

Big breakdown starts at 220 deg.

Blizz, I haven't towed with my new E/J yet. The 1.1 version died on me before I could use it with my EGT gauge. I plan to tow in the next couple of weeks and will have additional intel. I'm anxious to see how the MBRP cool duals reduce my EGT's. The 5ver will be around 15k lbs during this run.

Chisuzu, yes I remember! I'm having the same results. This is techie stuff, out of my league! JJ :)

Yeah, what Scott said!:D

I run a PML Mike put on mine as well--it may help somewhat, but don't consider it a cure-all to keep an Alli cool.

I don't believe 200* is to bad for the fluid. Alot of auto makers use a passage in the radiator to cool the fluid. Most cars run at or around 200* under most operating conditions. If that temp was so bad I don't think manufactures would give drain intervals of 30K miles. With that being said, one of Mike's coolers will still find a home on my truck.:ro)

I have the 8.1 and the trans temp is the same as a diesel eng. I've always thought the a/c condenser should be placed in another location just because it gives up a lot of heat to be sucked into and around the eng. I pulled Baker grade a couple of times,in the fall of the yr., and the temp did get almost to 200 w/ the a/c off and a little over 200 w/a/c running. Grossed out at 17400 lbs.