:)You dont have to look to far to see there are a lot of people going through some hard times now other than the auto industry and my heart and prayers go out to all of them as well as our armed forces. I dont have the answers. Just thought I would try to get some of your thoughts or opinions on what we are going to do for warranty on our trucks if any of the Detroit Three goes under. If you have to pay someone to repair one of these things it is going to be expensive. At the present, I dont even know a good diesel mechanic. I dont know a lot about them except what I have read on DP, and there is some good stuff on here. Someone has always helped me on here, otherwise I would have been totally lost. Just wanted to see what ya'll thought so jump in here. There is plenty of room for all. Mr. Mod, if this is the wrong place for this, please forgive me. THANKS TO ALL. :)

Same thoughts were crossing my mind if GM goes under and I need injector warranty work down the road.. :(

i have been with GM a very long time,all i can say is i'm not a HAPPY customer.how in the hell does a company this size get in this shape,i'll tell you how by not staying on top of there game for the past twenty years.lets take a vote do we give them the money or not,i vote NO.let the big CEO earn his money.lets start by selling off the rest of the fleet.i have a brand new G6 GT with 13k on it,the front brakes are shot,i mean come on,the ESC light stays on when it cold,and the list goes on and on.i don't have to tell anybody in here about problems with gm,we all know.it's time for gm to take a good long hard look at the past 15 years,and turn this company around.if i have anything to say about it,they are not getting anymore of my money,they keep telling us it's a loan ya ok.it's a loan alright on you and me.sorry for venting

I've had the same thoughts on this. I know where there are 3 nice '08's with cheap red tag prices (less than I paid for my Classic with GM Extended Family pricing). I am reluctant to pull the trigger with things in a shambles the way they are.

I've got my own ideas on the subject. There is no reason flood car lots with vehicles that no one is going to buy in a shitty economic situation. It solves 2 problems 1) what gets built is already sold 2) saves on every fixed or manufacturing cost related to producing vehicles. Now UAW wouldn't want to hear that because they wouldn't be working very much but that's how big business needs to operate to stay in black ink.

Well I'm not too sure I'd be worried yet. If worse comes to worse I would imagine they would downsize and get rid of some of their subsidiaries first pontiac, saturn, saab, gmc etc... It's the unions that hold them back for the most part, the benefits that the employees have been promised and their pay are too much for them to be competitive with other automobile manufacturers in foreign countries. They should downsize to Chevrolet and Cadillac and rebuilt from there while renegotiating with the unions. Who knows, I'm getting ready to order a 09 2500 and I'm pretty iffy about it too, but then again where else am I going to get a diesel truck?

Why worry about tomorrow...........go and get that truck you want. Look at the alternative.....do you really see yourself happy driving a Toyota or some other rice burner

Why worry about tomorrow...........go and get that truck you want. Look at the alternative.....do you really see yourself happy driving a Toyota or some other rice burner

Maybe if it burned diesel instead of rice ;)

I really don't think they could legally leave the consumers high and dry when it came to warranty work.

If (and a very big if) that were to happen, I could see alot of DPF's falling off of these new trucks... :D

Look, if GM or any of the others go bankrupt, they will just restructure and continue on. I think they kinda need the bankruptcy, but then again, I don't think they've made mistakes for the past 15-20 years like the dickhole congressmen have told them.

They were building SUVs and trucks more than anything else, why? Because they were selling! And selling well. It isn't the companies' faults that the bottom dropped out on them, they were making a killing on those big vehicles, and who wouldn't take advantage of every second of that?

Now, I'm not saying that they have not had their faults, because of the UAW leaders and the greedy CEOs they have ultimately ****ed up, but it isn't COMPLETELY the big 3's fault.

I can't say whether I am for or against the "bailout". Like I've already read on here somewhere, the money is already "spent", big brother just has to figure out where to spend it. Honestly, I would rather see it go to the big 3 than another shithead bank.

If (and a very big if) that were to happen, I could see alot of DPF's falling off of these new trucks... :D

Definitely!

Forgetabout current worker's pay - The new car buyer pays $2K more per new vehicle to cover RETIRED auto workers pension and health care union negotiated benefits.

:eek:

I really don't think they could legally leave the consumers high and dry when it came to warranty work.

If (and a very big if) that were to happen, I could see alot of DPF's falling off of these new trucks... :D

If they go chapter 11 they'll be restructuring but will still be in business and our warranties will still be valid. If the restructuring fails, like if people stop buying vehicles so GM's cash flow stops, and they have to go chapter 7 they'll start selling off assets to pay anyone GM owes money and our warranties won't be worth the paper they're printed on since GM would no longer exist. If the latter happens, buy some stock in MBRP and whoever else makes those turbo back exhaust systems. I know my DPF will be history. ;)

All that said, I don't think we have anything to worry about in the near term. With the unemployement numbers that came out today (533,000 jobs lost in November, unemployement at 6.7%) Congress can't risk putting GM and their suppliers on the unemployement lines.

Ordinarily, I would say a business should rise and fall on its own merits and if it goes under due to inept management, then it should. In the case of GM and the others they are frankly too big for the country to stand on principle alone in dealijng with them, at least that's my opinion.

We have all heard the number as 2.5 million jobs eventaully lost if one of them goes completely out of business. If that is remotely accurate (unlike the ridiculously overblown $70+/hr being claimed as what their workers make...its a lot...but nearly half that) then I believe the government should help them out with a tightly structured LOAN for the betterment of us all...you know, "...promote the general welfare..." But not PROVIDE it.

If we loan them an azz-saving amount of dollars, we own that azz. The plan to recover has to be drastic and truly "out of the box" thinking, much as I hate that trite expression. They're going to have to jettison brands, perhaps Buick, Pontiac, Saturn and even (gulp) GMC trucks. Why manufacture what are essentially identical cars or trucks? There is a lot of overhead in manufacturing with multiple body panels, grillwork, lights, emblems, marketing, etc.

They've got to make cars that are TRULY better than the competition. No, a LOT better. My son for example has a new Malibu. Truly a nicer car than I've seen them make in a long time....its not enough. If they want to make serious inroads into Accord and Camry market share they've got to make a car that is WAY better just to get people to say, "Hey, I hear GREAT things about this new car GM is making!" The perforacne has to be outrageous, the mileage radically more than the competition and the price frankly noticeably better. Anything less isn't going to get it done. That's my
$0.02.

They've got to make cars that are TRULY better than the competition. No, a LOT better. My son for example has a new Malibu. Truly a nicer car than I've seen them make in a long time....its not enough. If they want to make serious inroads into Accord and Camry market share they've got to make a car that is WAY better just to get people to say, "Hey, I hear GREAT things about this new car GM is making!" The perforacne has to be outrageous, the mileage radically more than the competition and the price frankly noticeably better. Anything less isn't going to get it done. That's my
$0.02.
Well said....

What was I thinking????? I shoulda kept the 94 Cummins:(

Warrenty!

OK, I can see them honoring the warranties on new trucks but if they go under and restructure what about the extended warranties that people have purchased?

Forgetabout current worker's pay - The new car buyer pays $2K more per new vehicle to cover RETIRED auto workers pension and health care union negotiated benefits.

:eek:


Of coarse as a retired GM worker I take exception to that lie. Where did you hear that BS at? It's simply not true. Should we take and just slit the throats of the retired workers? Before the union busters most Americans had a good retirement. Hardly anyone does today. Also medical care. Big buisiness and a right wing republican agenda are spreading these lies to break the last strong union in this country. Believe me all of you will feel the effects for a long time. Your warranty will be the least of your worries.

CNN. I dd not say it was a bad thing, just a fact.

dont even get me started with the UAW's. they are overpaid and too many benifits, they are 1/2 of GM's problems. I say let em go bankrupt get the unions out and start fresh. im sure this will be upsetting to some of you union guys but really $40 an hour to bolt on a door that I might have to fix the wind noise in when it gets sold to someone?? PLEASE they have had it too good for too long.

dont even get me started with the UAW's. they are overpaid and too many benifits, they are 1/2 of GM's problems. I say let em go bankrupt get the unions out and start fresh. im sure this will be upsetting to some of you union guys but really $40 an hour to bolt on a door that I might have to fix the wind noise in when it gets sold to someone?? PLEASE they have had it too good for too long.

Agreed!!!! I say a restructure would be great. People just need to realize that labor costs needs to drop so prices of goods and service decrease. My shop charges an outrageous amount to work on motorcycles $89. Come on now the mechanic barely makes half of that.

I dont work for unions so I cant bad talk them. They might be great but they are part of the problem.

I have a 2006 Crew Cab HD2500 Silverado. My Chev. dealership had a 2008 LBZ loaded
Crew Cab HD2500. They had a great price posted on it. But, when it came to my
truck. They wanted to give me 10,000. dollars, less than what they were selling in their lot, for the same make and model truck, with more miles and not as good shape as my
truck. Needless to say, I'am did not the only one not buying.
As far as warrenty's would go if the big three folded. There would be underwriters that
would adminester any claims. For the manufacture.

Agreed!!!! I say a restructure would be great. People just need to realize that labor costs needs to drop so prices of goods and service decrease. My shop charges an outrageous amount to work on motorcycles $89. Come on now the mechanic barely makes half of that.

I dont work for unions so I cant bad talk them. They might be great but they are part of the problem.

Don't know where your shop is, but if your motorcycle techs are making around $40/hr, I need to know so I can sent my grads that way.

I say let the big three do what the airline industry had to do, Chapt 11, restructure/merge and press on.

Auto workers do not make $40 an hour. It does not cost $2k a car for retirees beniffits. What you are refering to is the total cost differance between Jap cars made here and union made vehicles made here. Which includes things such as the unfair currancy exchange which has existed for years. So you can quit spreading those lies.

Google spreads it nicely........

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-US&q=%242%2C000+per+car+auto+worker+benefits+cost&btnG=Search

And for all that just adjusted the misaligned the front bumper of my 50K rig...... Lower grill valance tabs not in bumber slots and lower radiator rubber air dam not attached at all hanging loose.

;)

Auto workers do not make $40 an hour. It does not cost $2k a car for retirees beniffits. What you are refering to is the total cost differance between Jap cars made here and union made vehicles made here. Which includes things such as the unfair currancy exchange which has existed for years. So you can quit spreading those lies.
you just go ahead and keep sticking up for the uaw. when they go bankrupt you might have to pull your head out of the sand, and buy a nice forien car.

Google spreads it nicely........

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-US&q=%242%2C000+per+car+auto+worker+benefits+cost&btnG=Search

And for all that just adjusted the misaligned the front bumper of my 50K rig...... Lower grill valance tabs not in bumber slots and lower radiator rubber air dam not attached at all hanging loose.

;)


Jimmy, you must have a reading problem you ought to look into. Although many of the articles you quote from are union busting conservative publications, they say excatly what I said. Auto workers do not make $40 and hour. Retiree costs are not $2k per car. Maybe you should read them.

AUTOWORKER WAGES.... To help explain the crisis facing the U.S. automotive industry, a growing number of conservatives have begun blaming the Big Three's workers (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/11/17/unions-auto-bailout/) for the companies' financial difficulties. Sen. Jon Kyl (R-Ariz.), for example, recently argued on Fox News, "For years [the companies have] been sick. They have a bad business model. They have contracts negotiated with the United Auto Workers that impose huge costs. The average hourly cost per worker in this country is about $28.48. For these auto makers, it's $73."
Jonathan Cohn explained (http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=1026e955-541c-4aa6-bcf2-56dfc3323682) today that the conservative talking points are "wildly misleading."

Let's start with the fact that it's not $70 per hour in wages. According to Kristin Dziczek of the Center for Automative Research -- who was my primary source for the figures you are about to read -- average wages for workers at Chrysler, Ford, and General Motors were just $28 per hour as of 2007. That works out to a little less than $60,000 a year in gross income -- hardly outrageous, particularly when you consider the physical demands of automobile assembly work and the skills most workers must acquire over the course of their careers. [...] [T]hen what's the source of that $70 hourly figure? It didn't come out of thin air. Analysts came up with it by including the cost of all employer-provided benefits -- namely, health insurance and pensions -- and then dividing by the number of workers. The result, they found, was that benefits for Big Three cost about $42 per hour, per employee. Add that to the wages -- again, $24 per hour -- and you get the $70 figure. Voila.
Except ... notice something weird about this calculation? It's not as if each active worker is getting health benefits and pensions worth $42 per hour. That would come to nearly twice his or her wages. (Talk about gold-plated coverage!) Instead, each active worker is getting benefits equal only to a fraction of that -- probably around $10 per hour, according to estimates from the International Motor Vehicle Program. The number only gets to $70 an hour if you include the cost of benefits for retirees -- in other words, the cost of benefits for other people. [...]


And actually most auto workers make just over $26/hr. (And very few auto workers work 40 hrs every week 52 weeks of a year.) If you don't calculate skilled trades into the mix. I don't think you could do the work.

you just go ahead and keep sticking up for the uaw. when they go bankrupt you might have to pull your head out of the sand, and buy a nice forien car.


Mike, I don't think the UAW is too worried about you. Company goon squads, soldiers, police, the labor movement has faced worse scabs than you. I think many more intelligent Americans than you are seeing that moving the industrial might of this country overseas will affect us all down the road.

John

can any body tell me where i can get a decal that says REAL TRUCKS DONT HAVE SPARK PLUGS

Maybe if it burned diesel instead of rice ;)
MMMMMMMM! Diesel Fried Rice.

Don't know where your shop is, but if your motorcycle techs are making around $40/hr, I need to know so I can sent my grads that way.

I say let the big three do what the airline industry had to do, Chapt 11, restructure/merge and press on.

i don't think moto209 meant techs make 40$ an hour. I am a business man as well. rule of thumb is you can't charge out less than 2.5 times what you can pay your top guy the rest is for overhead, taxes unemployment , etc....and then some profit hopefully.

Mike, I don't think the UAW is too worried about you. Company goon squads, soldiers, police, the labor movement has faced worse scabs than you. I think many more intelligent Americans than you are seeing that moving the industrial might of this country overseas will affect us all down the road.

John
so let me get this straight I AM A SCAB?? because my job is twice as difficult than theirs and I make about 5 to 8 bucks less an hour than they do, im not garenteed 40 which I barely ever make because of warranty times being so shitty, and people not wanting to pay for anything. oh yeah and my benifits (if you can call them that) SUCK. union cry babies need to get over them selves as being better than everybody else. when I screw something up I have to fix it, when they screw it up they ship it to the dealer to fix, yeah theyre great..

Gosh Mike instead of crying like a baby be a man and stick up for your rights. That's what we did.

I don't begrudge the union pukes their wage. However it would be nice if they worked for it.....

That was mean...
I'm sure all the horror stories are false. There are a lot of union people who work hard but you always see and hear about the other ones....
Apologies to all hard working union personnel...

Appology accepted. I had over 31 years on the line. I saw people like you come and go. A lot of them snuck out at lunch time to never return. I worked in the body shop for my first few years. Spot welding guns weighing a hundred pounds or more. They are hung on balancers but you have to get that moving. We built 60 cars an hour. When the whistle blew the line started ready or not. It did not stop untill lunch. If you have to go the bathrrom you try to get the attension of the boss. He sends the relief man. Heaven help you if he's tied up somewhere else. You want a drink. The line doesn't stop. You work like a mad man to get a job or two ahead and run like a maniac for the water fountain. Oh you cut your arm? They aren't going to stop the line. You try to get someones attension. Hopefully the relief man hasn't sent the guy across the line to the head first. I've seen people slip in their own blood trying to work while someone got to them. Every day they time your job with a stop watch. It's in tenths of a second. If you can't keep up its your *ss. When you'all talk about cutting the retirement of those damn auto workers, think what it would be like to work that line at 65. The speed, bending , reaching up, heavy parts and guns. In the Jap plants those workers will be gotton rid of. Buisnessweek likes to point to one worker out of 7,000 that has a job off the line that doesn't work like this. They fail to point that out.

Gosh Mike instead of crying like a baby be a man and stick up for your rights. That's what we did.
no thanks unlikje you when I get pissed I keep working not walk off in protest and hope some one (union) covers my ass so I wont get fired, oh thats right union guys cant get fired because the almighty union will be there to "protect them".

oh and this is my last post in this dumb ass thread so no matter what you come back with I am not getting a pissing match match with you over the fact if unions are good or bad because it doesnt really matter to me if gm goes under I will still have a job UAW's wont. nuff said.

Thank God, you union haters might get the economy you want. I saved a little bit of that "$73 or $100/hr" (or whatever BS they put out this week) and will probably survive. You on the other hand may not.