to me.........

If I understand correctly, a wastegate is used to bypass the turbo when a certain pressure is met.
If I'm right, once pressure is met or high enough to compress the spring, the spring compresses opening a valve to allow the exhaust gases to bypass the exhaust turbine and dump into the downpipe. Correct?

You can change out the springs inside wastegate or turn the wastegate housing to adjust allowed pressure before valve opens.
There are two ports on wastegate which have me confused what they actually do, I'm guessing that this is what actually sends the "signal" to compress spring/open valve. So by pinching the line that "signals" the wastegate, you'd be bypassing the wastegate and not allowing the valve to open. Correct?

Are most wastegates setup in this manner or similar?

Reason I'm asking is because my twin setup is wastegated and I want to understand fully. I would ask Nathan but I don't want to bother him on Thanksgiving, figured there might be some guys lurking around on here that may be able to answer my silly questions. I'm having trouble building boost and may not have my wastegate installed correctly or plumbed correctly.

This new setup rocks, can't wait to see it's full potential. THe last setup allowed me to achieve 65 psi on a good tune, only moderate throttle. I say moderate because it wasn't actually beating on it. They look great as well, paint matches my truck, ultimate gloss black and it is wicked sweet!!
Happy Thanksgiving guys! gotta go check the deep fryer,:cool::D

There are different types of wastegates. Some use boost pressure, others use turbine drive pressure.

A drive pressure wastegate is fairly simple. There is a valve that is held shut by a spring. Once the drive pressure comes up enough, it pushes the valve open, against the force of the spring, allowing exhaust to bleed off, and not go through the turbine, thus de-spooling the charger. It is easily adjusted with spring tension.

I don't know quite as much about the boost pressure actuated ones. I do know that they have a boost line going from the outlet or intake manifold to an actuator on the side. When boost comes up to the desired level, it pushes the wategate open, likely against a spring, opening the valve to allow the exhaust to bypass the turbine. The method of adjusting boost via this system I am most familiar with is to use a very simple device made with a "T" fitting. Boost goes in one part of the straight through portion, and out the diverging part. In the other straight through part, there's a screw that turns down on a spring and steel ball. By cranking it down, it takes more boost pressure to move the spring back so it can exit the fitting, and go the the wastegate. It may take some work to get a good spring rate for desired boost and stuff though. I'm sure there are other ways as well, but I am not familiar with them.

took mine apart to have a looksie..........boy was that a mistake without a vise, lol.
Had trouble trying to reinstall it, was going to change springs but decided it was already hard enough to install back together so used original spring. What a PITA, without a vice!

But I had the wifey stand on it, while I installed snap ring, worked in a "snap" LOL!!

I don't know what kind are used in his kits. but the normal aftermarket Tial and similar units have a vacuum/boost fitting on the side and one on top of the valve. The springs are set for "X" amount of boost pressure, after which the valve opens and bypasses exhaust to regulate the boost as you said. However, the spring is rated WITH the boost/vacuum lines being hooked up to the side port. In other words, the boost rating of the spring is not correct (it will make a lot more boost) if the boost reference line is not connected on the side port. It takes that line plus the spring to regulate boost correctly.

The port on top of the valve gives additional force to hold the valve closed and make more boost. In most cases this is not even used, but for super high boost levels where you're having trouble holding the valve closed they'll usually run a line directly off the compressor housing to this top port.

Any boost controller will work off the side port; the lower the signal/boost from the controller the higher boost the setup will make, again because it needs the boost pressure to help push the valve open. If you reduce the pressure through the controller to the side port of the wastegate then you'll increase the boost level of the engine.

Jody

I don't know what kind are used in his kits. but the normal aftermarket Tial and similar units have a vacuum/boost fitting on the side and one on top of the valve. The springs are set for "X" amount of boost pressure, after which the valve opens and bypasses exhaust to regulate the boost as you said. However, the spring is rated WITH the boost/vacuum lines being hooked up to the side port. In other words, the boost rating of the spring is not correct (it will make a lot more boost) if the boost reference line is not connected on the side port. It takes that line plus the spring to regulate boost correctly.

The port on top of the valve gives additional force to hold the valve closed and make more boost. In most cases this is not even used, but for super high boost levels where you're having trouble holding the valve closed they'll usually run a line directly off the compressor housing to this top port.

Any boost controller will work off the side port; the lower the signal/boost from the controller the higher boost the setup will make, again because it needs the boost pressure to help push the valve open. If you reduce the pressure through the controller to the side port of the wastegate then you'll increase the boost level of the engine.

Jody
exactly, this is the way I understood it, these gates cannot be turned, no point in it, lol. This gate has two side ports, nothing on top, but the one closest to the top is the one that helps keep valve closed. I could tell this when I dissasembled, took out the spring and blew into each port. So I should have it plumbed correctly. There is a inline valve to the port that compresses spring and opens the gate valve and I have it closed(like pinching the line) and still no boost. No boost with plumbing exact opposite. I'm sure it's something stupid like a sensor or plumbing I forgot to completely reassemble/install, but I've yet to find it.

On edit, i drove to work without the MAF installed, as I had no socket small enough to uninstall it off old conduit. So I thought no MAF was the culprit at first, but now with it installed no workie. No codes either. Same tune.

If I were to drive with gate plumbing disconnected, this would be ok, just not allowing wastegate to function, correct? In other words this would allow the gate valve to stay shut and tell me if that's where my problem is or not?

That is correct.

well I drove with gate plumbing disconnected and no boost.

sounds like your wastegate uses a boost reference line to help hold the gate closed and make boost. On my aftermarket wastegates if you disconnect the lines to the gate it makes way too much boost.

Jody

how much boost is it making

how much boost is it makinghard to make 10lbs.

damn, sounds like you have a bad boost leak somewhere. i don't think your problem is with the wastegate. when i first installed mine i had a bad leak where the aluminum mouth piece connects to the stock charger and i wasn't able to build much boost

On my twins, the port on the side is used to adjust max boost by sending a metered amount of boost to it. The more boost you send into the side port the quicker the wastegate will open. The port on the end is used to hold the wastegate closed. By allowing full boost to go to the end you help keep the wastegate closed. to build the most boost, send no boost to the side port, and full boost to the end port. I think......

damn, sounds like you have a bad boost leak somewhere. i don't think your problem is with the wastegate. when i first installed mine i had a bad leak where the aluminum mouth piece connects to the stock charger and i wasn't able to build much boost
yeah I've checked each clamp/hose/boot all seems fine.

Intake elbow to stock charger seems fine...........other than I forgot to install the o-ring:eek:, would that make that much difference? Now only to find the damn thing.

On my twins, the port on the side is used to adjust max boost by sending a metered amount of boost to it. The more boost you send into the side port the quicker the wastegate will open. The port on the end is used to hold the wastegate closed. By allowing full boost to go to the end you help keep the wastegate closed. to build the most boost, send no boost to the side port, and full boost to the end port. I think......
yeah i've tried that and no difference.

i would say that is where your problem is. i forgot to tighten the clamp on mine and it blew the o-ring out and i wasn't able to make much boost. after i installed a new o-ring and tightened the clamp down i didn't have any more trouble.



yeah I've checked each clamp/hose/boot all seems fine.

Intake elbow to stock charger seems fine...........other than I forgot to install the o-ring:eek:, would that make that much difference? Now only to find the damn thing.

yeah I've checked each clamp/hose/boot all seems fine.

Intake elbow to stock charger seems fine...........other than I forgot to install the o-ring:eek:, would that make that much difference? Now only to find the damn thing.

Stock charger itself should make much more than 10 lbs boost. So o-ring is not problem. And wastegate controls big charger, so there should be anyways pressure that small charger is capable.
Have your setup made more boost earlier, or has it been like this all the time ?
does your truck smoke lot? maybe it is pressure gauge problem?
If gauge is ok, then you have big leak somewhere, or small charger is dead.

Stock charger itself should make much more than 10 lbs boost. So o-ring is not problem. And wastegate controls big charger, so there should be anyways pressure that small charger is capable.
Have your setup made more boost earlier, or has it been like this all the time ?
does your truck smoke lot? maybe it is pressure gauge problem?
If gauge is ok, then you have big leak somewhere, or small charger is dead.
Since i installed this setup there has been no boost, the day before with the previous twin setup, had all the boost I wanted. Just a simple swap of setups and major loss of power/boost.
I have noticed that on interstate and punching it, give it a few seconds and it pulls REALLY hard. It's just bad laggy and no bottom end/take off. NO smoke. boost gauge is dead but using oil psi gauge it hardly registers 10psi. I've used this gauge before to monitor boost and it worked flawlessly, plus there is a major loss of power, it's slow.

Kinda off the exact subject but when wastegate opens, is there a noise, almost like a BOV? How can I tell if my small charger is dead?

Stock charger itself should make much more than 10 lbs boost. So o-ring is not problem. And wastegate controls big charger, so there should be anyways pressure that small charger is capable.
Have your setup made more boost earlier, or has it been like this all the time ?
does your truck smoke lot? maybe it is pressure gauge problem?
If gauge is ok, then you have big leak somewhere, or small charger is dead.

if the tune is setup for the big charger to take over at say 10 lb of boost would the stock charger still make more than taht? i agree with what you are saying about the stock charger making alot more boost, but if the tune isn't allowing it than maybe he is losing boost at the o-ring

Since i installed this setup there has been no boost, the day before with the previous twin setup, had all the boost I wanted. Just a simple swap of setups and major loss of power/boost.
I have noticed that on interstate and punching it, give it a few seconds and it pulls REALLY hard. It's just bad laggy and no bottom end/take off.

That sounds like small charger is not working correctly, because you have big lag and then power. I am not familiar with VNT charger, but maybe there is something wrong with its control system?

hey wkinsley, I just realized you have the same color setup as me, SWEET! But I also noticed my wastegate plumbing is opposite of yours, but this is how I THOUGHT Nathan suggested it. The inline valve on mine is on the port to the right(closest to the hot pipe).

That sounds like small charger is not working correctly, because you have big lag and then power. I am not familiar with VNT charger, but maybe there is something wrong with it?
Man, I hope not, I can't ever get a break.
On edit: Why would the previous setup not do the same? I'm using the same tune, only difference is wastegated turbo in place of previous. I never had lag problems like this before, it spooled pretty quick.

Man, I hope not, I can't ever get a break.
On edit: Why would the previous setup not do the same? I'm using the same tune, only difference is wastegated turbo in place of previous. I never had lag problems like this before, it spooled pretty quick.

Maybe you forget to connect some hose or something?
Is that 10 lbs maximum boost you have seen with this new set, or how much boost is it making in highway when you accelerate after lag?
Your description just sounds like big charger works as it should, and something is wrong with controlling VNT. But I can be wrong too ;)

hey wkinsley, I just realized you have the same color setup as me, SWEET! But I also noticed my wastegate plumbing is opposite of yours, but this is how I THOUGHT Nathan suggested it. The inline valve on mine is on the port to the right(closest to the hot pipe).


i guess i don't really know if mine is hooked up correctly or not. i have the valve all the way open. i know it makes boost just fine though.

Maybe you forget to connect some hose or something?
I've double checked everything I could think of though. Oil lines, pcv,cold pipe, hot pipe, down pipe, intercooler pipes and boots, intake elbow, back of stock charger, wastegate.

I've double checked everything I could think of though. Oil lines, pcv,cold pipe, hot pipe, down pipe, intercooler pipes and boots, intake elbow, back of stock charger, wastegate.

As I edit in my earlier post, it sounds like VNT problem, because it makes power, but have big lag. And again, I dont know anything about VNT´s.
Boost leaks can also give similar affects, but you have already check connects. Look IC also, that it dont have any leaks.

what about the whole no smoke thing? I had smoke with the previous twin setup, and now there is NONE. I figured if my turbo(s) weren't working properly that I would get loads of smoke when I got on it, at least until big turbo kicked in.

The first time I drove it, I didn't have MAF in and figure that was the problem, but after installing it(possibly breaking the "filament???" inside,) it has no change and I don't have any codes other than a Class 2 Data Link in Instrument Cluster.

what about the whole no smoke thing? I had smoke with the previous twin setup, and now there is NONE. I figured if my turbo(s) weren't working properly that I would get loads of smoke when I got on it, at least until big turbo kicked in.

The first time I drove it, I didn't have MAF in and figure that was the problem, but after installing it(possibly breaking the "filament???" inside,) it has no change and I don't have any codes other than a Class 2 Data Link in Instrument Cluster.

Suspect everything you have touch when you install new kit, and triple check all. Probably there is something missing/wrong assembled, since it worked before installing and now not, but I cant say what.
That O-ring is part of it, but I still dont believe it can affect so much, if intake sits correct in its place.

with out the oring i was still makeing close to 30lbs of boost useing PPE tuning. it wouldn't make any more than that, and it still blew a lot of smoke. have you checked to see if you have any codes? maybe try reflashing your tune and see if taht changes anything

with out the oring i was still makeing close to 30lbs of boost useing PPE tuning. it wouldn't make any more than that, and it still blew a lot of smoke. have you checked to see if you have any codes? maybe try reflashing your tune and see if taht changes anythingused efilive and no codes other than class 2 data link on instrument cluster, reflashed same tune only difference was all DTC test were enabled and MIL on every DTC. Still no different codes.

it seems odd that there isn't any smoke, it seems there should be alot of smoke since you aren't makeing any boost.

Haveing you tried running a log to see what it is actually doing?

it seems odd that there isn't any smoke, it seems there should be alot of smoke since you aren't makeing any boost.

Haveing you tried running a log to see what it is actually doing?
I did run a log of duramax imperial, how do I post it?

or I can email it?

I thought it was kinda odd I had no smoke also. I got on it one evening and it was like the big turbo kicked in and looked like there was a tad bit of smoke, hard to tell it was dark. But from a get go, NO NO NO smoke whatsoever. Surely this turbo isn't so much bigger that my tune that worked so flawlessly on the previous setup just doesn't have enough fuel/boost, huh?
only thing different I did was add a fuel additive from Redline to try out.

i'm not sure how to post it, but if u want to e-mail it to me you can
i'll PM you my e-mail

i'm not sure how to post it, but if u want to e-mail it to me you can
i'll PM you my e-mailpm and email sent.

ok this is probably gonna sound stupid and it's a piss in the wind, BUT is it possible being it's time to change fuel filter and the fact that I added an additive and it's pretty cold up here, that my filter is clogged not allowing any fuel to be delivered(no smoke) and hence boost not building becuase in efilive or in the ECM's tables it relies on mm3 delivered or what not????:o::o: just a thought.

i would try a different tune. the max pulse in the log only showed 998us, 40mm3, and 9 degrees of timing @ wot. thats definately not what you want.

see I had this itch that tuning was an issue, or actually the fuel was the issue, not the boost, hence why I asked about the filter. my computer just recently crashed so i'll have to see if I can find my cd with saved tunes. thanks.

fuel filter wouldn't be a bad idea, but i definately think something is wrong with the tune. your log shows a max commanded rail pressure of only 20,000 psi @ WOT

fuel filter wouldn't be a bad idea, but i definately think something is wrong with the tune. your log shows a max commanded rail pressure of only 20,000 psi @ WOTcool, I'll give it a shot.

My gut is telling me you need to hyjack another truck and steel his MAF for a few minutes and give that a try.

Just checking but is the MAF in the correct direction?

My gut is telling me you need to hyjack another truck and steel his MAF for a few minutes and give that a try.
Hey Tony, how are ya?
yea I might have a chance to tommorrow. I'll see.

if your still in Waynesburg you can try mine, i'm only 20 minutes from there

Hey Tony, how are ya?
yea I might have a chance to tommorrow. I'll see.We are here! :D

Go back and see what i added to my post.

My gut is telling me you need to hyjack another truck and steel his MAF for a few minutes and give that a try.

Just checking but is the MAF in the correct direction?LOL!!!!! DAMN IT!
NO IT'S NOT. I noticed that when installing it the sensor would not line the holes up with the pre-tapped ones in tube but only one direction, the opposite direction.....................LOLOLOLOLOLOL

I'm gonna change that right now, maybe turn filter conduit around? or do it without screws.

LOL!!!!! DAMN IT!
NO IT'S NOT. I noticed that when installing it the sensor would not line the holes up with the pre-tapped ones in tube but only one direction, the opposite direction.....................LOLOLOLOLOLOLJust checking, hate to see such a little thing piss you off.
The open side of the MAF to the filter.

HOLY ****!!! It's crazy how swapping a MAF around will add 75lbs of boost, LOL. Tony, you rock!!! Worked like a charm, had my air filter tube installed bassackwards. yes boys 75lbs on tap without flooring it.

Glad I could help.

now I just need more fuel!!!!!!!!

now I just need more fuel!!!!!!!!I have extra CP3 pumps laying around. ;)

HOLY ****!!! It's crazy how swapping a MAF around will add 75lbs of boost, LOL. Tony, you rock!!! Worked like a charm, had my air filter tube installed bassackwards. yes boys 75lbs on tap without flooring it.

Cool!!! :D

I have extra CP3 pumps laying around. ;)
I need one along with a kit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't think my wallet would like it much right now though. I'll pm you to see what you're asking....