I wish i would have waited know because BDS just released their new kit. It keeps the track width to near stock unlike the old kit and keeps the torsion bars in the stock location with an unbeatable warranty. check their website at www.bds-suspension.com they have a video on it.

Dang, man. That's awesome. And the price is the exact same as their standard 6" kit? Can't beat that. They make some great products.

Nice looking kit wish they offered that in a 4in. Some welding required.

Mike

nice lookin kit!

Damn a couple weeks too late

looks sweet, i love my bds kit. too bad these weren't out a year ago!

Damn, I wish this was available a month or so ago.

This looks like exactly like what I wanted, and would have taken up to 5.5 in of backspacing so I wouldn't have had to buy new wheels.

Dam. Wonder if you could clear 37s with this

Dam. Wonder if you could clear 37s with this

The site said you could.

If they made a 4" id buy it. 7" is a little much for me.

Looks like a really nice kit. Clean truck too!

i like the skid plates. wish cognito made some skid plates. i wonder if they drop the diff a full 7 inches. i guess it really doesnt matter since i already got my lift.

It would be great to see this in a 4in kit! they have the market for it anyone know if they will offer it in 4in?

Looks good. What needs to be welded?

when i upgrade to a 2500 im going to do there 7" kit

Ya look at those CVs angles no way. I don't know how its a full 7" drop with angles like that.

ya i didn't like how much the angle look it was like its a 6" but then you tighten the TB to make it clear

you need to cut and weld one of the brackets where the drop frame goes if i remember correctly from doing mine. and then you weld in a gusset plate to keep everything strong

That looks like a nice kit. I couldn't tell if the truck they used in the vid is a diesel or not. It didn't have a visible tailpipe.

Scott

I am going to run down to Burnsville Off Road and get a price installed. That high cleareance will work good driving thru the woods cutting wood. Built it on line with shocks etc, 3800.00

If they made a 4" id buy it. 7" is a little much for me.

I agree don't want to use a latter to get up in my truck

I agree don't want to use a latter to get up in my truck

True, but for people who actually need a big lifted diesel, like myself, this kit would be a great option. The clearance issue on IFS trucks is SUCH an issue when driving terrain like newly clearcut timber.

True, but for people who actually need a big lifted diesel, like myself, this kit would be a great option. The clearance issue on IFS trucks is SUCH an issue when driving terrain like newly clearcut timber.

True. If i had a use for a lifted truck or wanted to go for that look, id have done exactly what you did. Butt i want to go fast so a mild lift is more practical for me.

For the same price I like the cognito/deavers/bilstein.

do you think this kit is as strong as the cognito? the BDS has twice as many pieces to the lift that I noticed on the pictures of both kits, seems to me the less little pieces the better. And also, can one handle a wider tire than the other, the tires on that truck in the BDS video are just too narrow for my likings

Has anyone had this lift installed yet? I see this thread has sat idle for weeks so I am guessing maybe not. Looking at getting this lift and would appreciate some overall feedback of the new design and roof clearance dimensions (with tire size) if possible.

Thanks in advance...

Anybody know if you can interchange the narrow track knuckles with the old 6" kit.

i have an 03 6.6 crew cab S/B i am getting the new 7" BDS Suspension w/the blocks in the rear and a 3" body going on 38/15.50R20 Nitto Grapplers with 20x12 Weld Dakars. Should be done by next Wednesday i will post some pics as soon as I get. I will be the first one in Jax, FL to get it...I think it is going to be f'n siiiiick!

i have an 03 6.6 crew cab S/B i am getting the new 7" BDS Suspension w/the blocks in the rear and a 3" body going on 38/15.50R20 Nitto Grapplers with 20x12 Weld Dakars. Should be done by next Wednesday i will post some pics as soon as I get. I will be the first one in Jax, FL to get it...I think it is going to be f'n siiiiick!

Why not go with a 10" kit to begin with and throw out the body lift? At least it will save you some headaches down the road...Along with looking better since you won't have that huge gape between the frame and body...

good points but I don't mind the look and also If the height ever becomes too much I always have the easy option of going down to just 7" ya know

Very true. Can't wait to see how the trucks going to look with those rims!! Make sure you post before and after shots!!

good pics coming soon, still have some accents to add and all....

Looking good Wally

thanks I am still workng on it!

Holy wide tires!

That BDS truck is bad ass! I dont like the CV angles either though.

appreciate it. Ya know I wasn't too crazy about the angel at first either, but they really aren't bad compared to most.I especially love how you don't see the torsion bars with this new lift. The were barely touch durin the alignment. Perfect for 38's with a body lift. I am designing some matlese cross vynl for it now

very nice rig!!!

good pics coming soon, still have some accents to add and all....


SICK!!!

thanks it's hard to touch what your driving but the wife wont let me a knew one so I am just hooking this one up. It's a chevy, really that is all that matters!

Has anyone had this lift installed yet? I see this thread has sat idle for weeks so I am guessing maybe not. Looking at getting this lift and would appreciate some overall feedback of the new design and roof clearance dimensions (with tire size) if possible.

Thanks in advance...

The axles are fine I have run the 4wd and perfect! The ride is perfect!!! I have several friends with cog and rise and believe or not they r no better I think the new bds rides better. The closest to oe ride with no torsion bar drop. I highly recommend this set up. No welding unless u want the turn stops on. I trimmed the bumper yesterday and BAM! Bottom to top it is 7.7" tall. I left the Nerf bars in the original spot and it is easy to get in. I will be done soon with accents and post some really clean pics. So, if u r thinking about the lift, 100% kick azzzzz!

I'm taking my truck to the local 4x4 shop on Monday to have the BDS 7" kit with the optional gas shocks installed. Decided to go with 37x12.5x17 Cooper STT tires on my H2 wheels. (currently have 285/70R17 on the H2s with no lift)

The backspacing on the H2 wheel is a perfect combo with this kit and should fit perfectly according to the BDS rep.

Picking it up on Tuesday 3/3 - pics to follow!

I like the design of the kit just wish the angles were flatter and the wheels tucked in a little better

Yeah me too but given it is a killer set up for the money. I have banged it around a lot on the beach n in the mud holes really strong n can't find a problem with it at all

I'm taking my truck to the local 4x4 shop on Monday to have the BDS 7" kit with the optional gas shocks installed. Decided to go with 37x12.5x17 Cooper STT tires on my H2 wheels. (currently have 285/70R17 on the H2s with no lift)

The backspacing on the H2 wheel is a perfect combo with this kit and should fit perfectly according to the BDS rep.

Picking it up on Tuesday 3/3 - pics to follow!

U will love it!!!!

I can't wait to have it installed. I've never seen one sitting on 37's in person! Found a picture of a dodge online with 37" tires on the H2 wheel and the wheel/tire combo looked great! I'm not a big fan of huge chrome wheels for everyday use. I would be too paranoid of them getting messed up out in the woods and the tires are ridiculous expensive to replace. All in all, 3k for the 7" BDS lift with gas shocks installed + a little over a grand for the four 37" tires. turns out she was cool with that :D I hope it's the best 4K I've ever spent.. Lift seems to add more value then putting it in the stock market! only live once why not

u nailed that bich right in the ground! The ride is just so sweet with that lift

Before the Lift (285/70R17 BFG's)

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=81914&stc=1&d=1236561664

After the 7" BDS Lift. (H2's with 37x12.5x17" Cooper Discoverer STT tires)

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=81912&stc=1&d=1236561664

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=81913&stc=1&d=1236561664

Looks good...How about them angles?

For those of you wanting to know what an 08 GMC 2500HD with the new BDS 7" lift, I just had the guys at Attitude Performance here in Chicago put one on my truck.

I know I could have went with 37" tires, but went with 35's on 18x9 rims cause I have to tow a trailer and wanted a D load tire but with an off-road tread pattern. Also, I am only 5'6" and I have a 4yr old that has to get in and out of this truck. I have the Amp Research power step, which drops down about a foot when you open the doors, so that helps alot in getting in and out of the rig.

I had them upgrade to a new rear leafs instead of blocks in the rear and I upgraded to the BDS gas shocks as well.

I love the way it rides and handles. I only had the truck for a month and with 1000 miles on the old suspension when I decided to change it to the BDS kit, so i can't do too much comparison other than the old ride with 80psi in the rear tires really sucked. I couldn't be happier with this kit, and Matt and the guys over at Attitude were real professionals.

BDS ROCKS congrats to u both they look killer!!!

Hey Geekster your truck looks sickster!!! I have a CCLB LMM, also white and have been trying to decide on a lift and wheel tire combo for 2 months now! Did you install the BDS narrow track knuckle's ? I live in Oregon (always wet and muddy!) and am trying to pick a lift that doesn't increase track width, and allows for a decent backspace on the wheels as well. Any help would be appreciated.

Geekster,

You mentioned that you should of went with 37" tires...Do you think they would fit? I'm having this lift installed on my truck on thursday and would love to go up to a 37" tire, but had doubts it would work.

Jubetrane - I didn't go with the narrow track width knuckles...i liked the wider track look. The only problem is the tires kick up everything onto the side of the truck now. I am looking at some fender flares to keep dirt/mud off the side of the truck. I did notice that my turning radius is larger than before. I don't know how much it increased as I only drove it for about 1000 miles before I put this lift on it.

Thalina78 - The guys over at the shop that installed it said I could have gone 37" tires with 20" wheels. They said it would have fit but would have probably had to do a lot more cutting of the inner fender and the bottom of the front bumper. I chose to do as little cutting as possible so that led me to 35" tires on 18" rims. As a matter of fact the only cutting they had to do was shave off about 1/2" off the bottom plastic part of the front bumper. I don't know if the narrow track knuckles would help either, but it seems to me that if you used a narrow track knuckle with the 7" lift, you could't fit a 37" tire under there. But I could be wrong.

BTW here are the specs of my Ultrawheel Goliath wheels:

Part number : Size : Backspace : Offset
223-8987B : 18x9 : 4 3/4 : -6

I hope this info helps you out.

Thanks, Sounds like the 35's are the max without major trimming.

the new 7" BDS is the Narrow"er" knuckles and you can put 37's under with no problem. I added 3" body and put 20x12' on 38/15,50's i trimmed the bumper a bit, and moved my nerf bars back a couple inches and it was worth every move. i didnt weld the turn stops cause i wanted the insane turning radius you gain with the lift. No regrets, would change a thing, except eventually going to a 2" addaleaf and 3" block, just to reduced the torque shift you slightly get at take off in the 5" blok set up...

I don't know if it makes a difference, but on an 08 LMM you can get either the narrow or the standard knuckle on the 7" lift kit. Check the website, there isn't a difference in price, so its a matter of preference. I chose the standard knuckle for the looks, and cause I didn't want to trim too much, I went with 18" rims with 35" tires.

On the BDS site its says you can do 37's with the 7" kit, but I don't know what set up you have to do, to get that size tire to fit under the truck.

I just got the 7" BDS lift last week and if you order the standard lift it will come with the original knuckles. The narrow track knuckles are a no cost option that needs to ordered (as stated earlier). I ended up going with narrow knuckles, 18x9's on 35's with Bilsteins on the corner. Had blocks installed for now will replace with Deavers later. Amazed on how well it rides and actually feel it rides better overall now. Attached is a quick picture I took with the phone last week. I'll get some better ones up here today if I get time.

I ordered the narrow knuckle kit as well. Your trucks all look great. I'm going with the block in the rear, and maybe some traction bars if needed. Would love the deavers as it sounds like the ride would be great, but carry too much weight not to retain the original dually rear springs. Does anyone know if the kit actually lowers the front diff a true 7"'s, or is the lift accomplished by cranking up the t-bars, and only lowering the diff say 4"'s?

I am unsure of the true amount of the differential drop but I am able to achieve flat CV's (or nearly flat level CV's) with the picture I posted before. I would guess the differential dropped roughly 6". The torsion bars could be massaged to achieve more lift in the front if needed... but it's not wanted or necessary. Hope this helps.

Hey Bargator...your truck looks awesome. Would love to see some more pics! Some shots down the side would be great. Do you know the track width difference between the standard and narrow knuckles?

I'll try and get some more pictures today. If I remember correctly the original BDS knuckles would push out the track about 1.5" per side. The narrower knuckles push out roughly half that amount; about 3/4" per side.

I'll try and get some more pictures today. If I remember correctly the original BDS knuckles would push out the track about 1.5" per side. The narrower knuckles push out roughly half that amount; about 3/4" per side.
Hey Gator...any time to get some more pic's? I have been talkin to BDS and they say that the standard knuckles increase track width 3/4" per side and the narrow track knuckles are the same width as stock! I think I have found my lift. I know that Cognito is the most popular on this sight, but I can't see any problems with this lift and I love the warranty!:thumb:

I apologize for not having the pictures up yet. Work has been hectic here and sporting events in the evenings. I'll do my best to get some tomorrow. In my estimate the narrow knuckles still offset but then again I am now running a XD wheel 18 x 9 with a 4.5bs. That will set the wheels out more than a stock PYO. I'll get some down the side shots tomorrow with CV joint pictures. Again sorry for the delay.

These were a few quick pictures I took on the jobsite Tuesday but not what you wanted so I didn't post them but they will give you a idea. I'll take more tomorrow when I get time. Hope this helps make the decision to go for the BDS. Props to Cognito but it's just not pushed here in FL nor available by the local shops. It's an order yourself, bring to the shop, lift here. Let me know if you have more specific questions about the lift.

Those angles look good. It must be a 6" drop.

I like the design of the kit just wish the angles were flatter and the wheels tucked in a little better
I don't know what pictures you're looking at, but I think you would have a tough time getting any better CV angles withount them angling up!;)

I apologize for not having the pictures up yet. Work has been hectic here and sporting events in the evenings. I'll do my best to get some tomorrow. In my estimate the narrow knuckles still offset but then again I am now running a XD wheel 18 x 9 with a 4.5bs. That will set the wheels out more than a stock PYO. I'll get some down the side shots tomorrow with CV joint pictures. Again sorry for the delay.
No problem at all..I just appreciate the fact that you are taking the time. If I ever get by Florida again soon, I'll have to buy you a couple drinks! By the way...I was going to start calling you Brett until I saw your front plate! So thanks again BEEF!!!:D

what are the benifits of getting 7 " over the 6". just being able to get larger tires on? i ask because i only plan on running 35 when lift gets here today or tomorrow.
called bds. difference is the 1 inch and you get the skid plate. the skid plate is not necassary on 6inch. shoot, shoulda ordered 7 inch and ran 35s. really wanted the skid plate. not for the 400 bones they now want.

The 7" lift is a non-torsion bar drop kit which allows the for a different side profile look. The 6" lift drops the torsion bars. As you mentioned the skid plate was included too. There is also the option to get the narrow knuckles which help tuck the front wheels better than the previous knuckle BDS produced. I am not sure if the narrow knuckle option is available in the 6" lift.

These were a few quick pictures I took on the jobsite Tuesday but not what you wanted so I didn't post them but they will give you a idea. I'll take more tomorrow when I get time. Hope this helps make the decision to go for the BDS. Props to Cognito but it's just not pushed here in FL nor available by the local shops. It's an order yourself, bring to the shop, lift here. Let me know if you have more specific questions about the lift.Hey Gator! Just checkin' to see if you are still alive!!;) You have reached your time limit for better pics! I still haven't lifted my rig yet. I am apparently having an issue with commitment...which is nothing new for me. If you ever do take some more pics, I would love to check 'em out. Take care Beef!

From the looks of his pics and on BDS's site the track width looks to be pushed out about 3/4". Which is about normal. I really wanted a cognito 7-9 for my truck but they wont produce it with the non torsion bar drop and skid plate like their 4-6. I like the warranty on the BDS lift too. That kit with some micket thompson mtz 36x15.5R20s sure would look good under my truck.:cool:

I am wondering why they say 17x9 wheel is the max wheel size:confused:

Any body been able to get in contact with BDS? They havent returned any emails, guess Ill have to break down and call them tomorrow.

Can anyone with this kit take a pic of thier tire to TRE clearance? If you do can you also tell whether you have the standard or narrow kit, wheel BS, width and tire size?

Trying to figure out if a set of mtz 36x15.5s on BMF 20x10s with 5" BS will work with the narrow kit.

FYI...

They did an article on my BDS lift in the June issue of Four Wheeler Magazine. It goes over the install and some of the technicals.

In my previous post I said I had the regular knuckles. I actually had the Narrow track knuckles installed, so the article was correct and my previous post was wrong.

I hope this helps some of you guys out.

http://www.fourwheeler.com/techarticles/suspension/129_0906_2001_2008_chevy_2500hd_bds/index.html

Can someone take pics of their tie rod end clearance?

1slow01Z71, Ted Yearling @ BDS answered all my questions quickly Tyearling@bds-suspension.com I am running 16" x 8" with 4 5/8" backspacing and I have about 3/4" Tierod clearance with the Fabtech/Cognito style HD ends. I don't anticipate any trouble at all with a 20" wheel. I think you can even run up to 5.75" backspacing on a 20".
http://www.bds-suspension.com/BDSLibrary/NPR/BDS_NPR-189H.pdf

Bar Gator are you running the factory bumpstops? I can't see them in the pictures you posted, they run on top of the relocator bracket for the torsion bars. Your CV angles look better than mine and mine are set according to the 4" Z height as stated in the instructions...

These are the only pictures I have right now. I installed the kit a few weeks ago but have been so busy with work I haven't had a chance to get better pictures and it's raining like crazy now.

Pros of this kit are:
Non t-bar drop
Warranty
Grey or Black powdercoat options
Standard or narrow track knuckle options
Skid plate
Price
Aligned OK
Ride is good with rear spring option and Bilstein 5100's
Solid construction and good hardware
Lots of clearance everywhere when running 35's. I could probably fit 37's fairly easily.

Cons:
Not much room for t-bar adjustment as you have bad CV angles when set at the 4" "Z" height in the instructions. It's also squishing the factory bumpstop at this height so I can't really lower them down. I have less clearance at the UCA frame stop now than I did when I had it cranked on 285's. When I have some more time I am going to fab a new bumpstop bracket that will allow me to lower the front end slightly.

I had to cut a notch out of the T-bar relocator bracket as the bracket is too narrow and was rubbing against the Bilstein shocks I have. This was the recommended fix by the dealer I bought the kit from and from BDS themselves.

I haven't driven another lifted Chevy enough to compare but my steering radius is for shit now. I really have to plan out where I can pull a U-turn. I don't know if the standard knuckles are any better than the narrows I'm running for this or not.

The front driveshaft was pulled out of the T-case enough to where the factory dust boot wouldn't fit back on right. I have a shock boot that I will be able to make work. I test drove the truck up to about 50 in 4hi and I did not have any driveline vibrations.

That's all I can think of at the moment + my dinner is here. I'll get around to posting more pictures eventually, any questions just ask here or PM me.

http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o474/Eric-Randa/Factorybumpstop.jpg

http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o474/Eric-Randa/shockclearance004.jpg

http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o474/Eric-Randa/Truckfinished.jpg

Metal Head to answer your question no I don't have the bump stops. I looked at the BDS install directions and they do mention reinstalling it like you did. Again I did not do my install but when I looked at the rear cross member (where the torsion bar is located) I saw the blue BDS bump stops which I thought would take the place of the stock one that were removed.

Needless to say I have driven the truck hard off road and not felt and hard hits from the wheel traveling up and hitting metal on metal or the shock bottoming out.

On the turning radius I can say it does suffer. I need 3-3.5 lanes of traffic for the U-turn.

Thanks Metal Head, I sent him an email, hopefully Ill get a response from him. I really like this kit considering there is nothing else in this size range with a NTBD setup.

Thanks Brett. The only thing that concerns me about that is that even from the factory the trucks "slightly" ride on the bumpstops. They work in conjunction with the torsion bars to give the front end a progressive spring rate. That is why the factory calls them jounce bumpers instead of bumpstops like I have been saying. The blue bumpstop in the kit is an actual "bumpstop" to prevent metal to metal contact at full compression. I may try running without them though if you are happy with the way yours rides, if not I'll fab a different mount that will allow me to lower the torsion bars some. The way it is now if I hit a big enough dip in the road I can feel the UCA's make contact with the droop stop on the frame. I never felt that when I had the front end cranked with 285's. Eventually I will get the Cognito UCA's to give me even more clearance at the droop stop and give my upper ball joint a little better angle.

I need to check more for clearance as far as the turning radius is concerned. It may just be in my head but it seems like it will turn tighter to the right than to the left where you really need it. I know I'm not getting hung up anywhere by the knuckles but I need to do more searching around to see if I can make any improvements.

1slow, Hopefully Ted gets back with you as quickly as he did with me. I can get you some measurements or pictures if it helps but it is still raining like crazy today. I was originally going to buy the 7" Cognito from a guy on here but I had to back out when my wife lost her job. When she found a new one I went back to buy it but it was already sold. The NTB drop, skidplates and price is what sold me on this kit when shopping new. It was right around $2400 new with rear springs, Bilstein shocks, and shipping. I already had them but definitely make sure you at least get the Cognito steering upgrades.

Ive already got every cognito front end upgrade you can get so all I need is the bottom half for a good lift. When I do lift it Im going to the dual front shock setup too.

Sent him this email at 330 and he replied by 405, wish he would have replied with some better info so Ill need pics from anybody who will bother taking them for me of the tie rod to tire/wheel clearance and of course all the specs on the wheel/tire package and whether or not you have narrow or standard knuckles.

Im looking at that one for my 2006 2500HD Silverado. How much added track width per side does the standard knuckle kit add and also for the narrow trac kit? Why is the max wheel size 17x9? I plan on running 36x15.5R20 tires with this kit, I currently have my fenders trimmed quite a bit to clear 35x12.5s right now with just cranked torsion bars and a cognito UCA leveling kit, do you see any problems clearing the 36s mounted on a 20x10 wheel with 4.5" BS? Right now Im running a 20x8.5 with 5.45" BS and its perfect for what Im doing now but the tires rub a bit on the sway bar and going to the 4.5 BS wheel should fix that along with the little extra track width from the CV spacers. Can your kit be ordered without rear blocks too? Im going to go with 6" Deaver springs so I have no need for them. Sorry for all the questions but Im just wanting to make sure Im as well informed as possible. You may be interested in this thread on dieseplace, this is where I found out about your kit. A few guys have some questions, may help sell some of your product the forum seems to respond well to vendors having direct contact with us.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=279135


Thanks, Cody Hicks(1slow01Z71 on the forum)

Hello Cody,

The 2500HD high clearance kit with the narrow track knuckle will not add to the factory track width. The standard knuckle kit will add approximately 1.5" per side. The wheel back spacing we specify is all I can recommend. The best advice I can give you is to see your local distributor and ask them, because they have the ability to try more combinations they will have more knowledge in that particular area. Yes you can order the kit without the rear block kit. Thanks for the lead on diesel place I will check it out. Please let me know if you need anything else.

Best Regards,

Ted Yearling
BDS Suspension
support@bds-suspension.com
phone: 517-279-2135

Sorry Cody, in my last email I stated the standard knuckle increases track width by 1.5" per side... that should have been total~! My mistake.

Ted Yearling
BDS Suspension
support@bds-suspension.com
phone: 517-279-2135


So the regular knuckles add 3/4" to each side, I may have to go with those to give me a bit more tie rod end clearance. Time to start reading up on BS and offsets...:rolleyes:

They say the narrow track doesn't increase track width yet you still need to add a CV spacer. I didn't take any solid measurements but visually I'd say it adds 1/2 to 3/4 inch per side (about the same as cognito 7"). I think they meant to list the 17" wheel as a recommended or guideline rather than max size. If I can fit a 16" wheel there should be no reason a larger wheel would have a problem as long as you are running the correct backspacing. I'll go get some pics of the tierod clearance for you but I can guarantee with 4.5" backspacing on a 20" wheel you won't have a problem.

Narrow track knuckles
16"x8" wheels 4 5/8" backspacing
315/75/16 tires (Toyo's are roughly 35" x 13" mounted up)
BDS 5" rear springs

Out in the rain for Diesel Place

http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o474/Eric-Randa/Truck002.jpg

http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o474/Eric-Randa/Truck0032.jpg

http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o474/Eric-Randa/Truck0042.jpg

http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o474/Eric-Randa/Truck0042.jpg

http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o474/Eric-Randa/Truck0062.jpg

http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o474/Eric-Randa/Truck0082.jpg

http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o474/Eric-Randa/Truck009.jpg

http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o474/Eric-Randa/truck.jpg

Before:
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/garageimage.php?do=full&p=85452&d=1235322921

After:
http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o474/Eric-Randa/Truck0072.jpg

So I guess hes lying about the narrow knuckle kit then? How much space do you ahve between the tire and knuckle? Whats the BS and width on your wheels? The thing you have to remember is even though I could run a 4.5" BS Ill be going to a 10" wide wheel which brings the wheel surface back closer the knuckle then add in a 15.5" wide tire that is going to 2.5" past the edge of the wheel. Its apparent that I wont have any clearance problems with the tie rods but the knuckle may be a bit more of a concern.

So it looks like the narrow kit spaces out ~3/8" and the normal knuckles space it out 3/4"

It is one of the better knuckle lifts as far as front wheel stickout with the narrow track option but I wouldn't call it zero increase. I'm guessing 1/2" per side.

Again I'm using a 16x8 wheel with 4 5/8" backspacing. Backspacing is the distance from the inner lip of the wheel to the mounting face of the hub. 5" backspacing is the same on an 8" wheel as it is a 10", the 10" will just stick out beyond the fenders 2" more. You will probably run into trouble with the 15.50 tire though. I'd think you'd need to stick with a bracket lift or SAS to run that wide of a tire.

Got offset and BS confused:o:

Looks like with the "narrow" knuckle kit and some 20x10s with -19mm offset and 4.75 BS I could fit these tires. These tires fit on a 7-9 cognito so it "should" fit on the BDS lift.

The point where the tie rod connects to the knuckle is going to be pretty close seeing as they both keep factory steering geometry, and IIRC the cognito kit widens the track about 1/2" each side so thats the same as the narrow knuckle kit.

Man this is a pain in the ass maybe I should just go with a 37x13.5 and be done with it:rolleyes:

I ordered my 7" BDS kit tuesday. We hope to install it the weekend of june 5th. I'm counting the days

Metal head - Can you take a pic of the torsion bar linkage for me, maybe a couple of angles. That would be bitch'n. I'm on the fence between Cognito 4-6 ntbd or BDS 7" ntbd narrow track.

I wonder who's would be stronger?

This is really the only angle you can see the bracket well from without taking the wheels off. The CV axles and shocks block the view from the front. I think if you have the Cognito steering upgrades you shouldn't have trouble with the strength from either kit. You might get better CV life out of the Cognito set at 7" though.?.

http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o474/Eric-Randa/Factorybumpstop.jpg

So I have been looking for reviews all over the internet on this lift but cant really find much. Is anyone having or predicting any problems out of this lift? Not too familar with BDS. I will be getting this or Cognito but I really like the NTB drop and the price.

I have and it fn rules!!!!!!

Well I've had the kit on for a couple thousand miles now and it seems to be doing good. I took the front factory bumpstops & extension brackets off like Bar Gator did and lowered the front about 3/4". It was a little nose high before but now it sits level and the ride is much better. It seems to have cured the problem I was having with the UCA's hitting the frame stop on big dips in the road. I haven't had it offroad since taking them out but I think it should do okay as BDS includes a second set of bumpstops that are mounted in a different location to absorb the big hits that don't effect your normal ride.

The alignment seems to be holding and I don't see any unusual tire wear yet. With my wheel and tire combo I have noticed a hand calculated average 2.x mpg drop in fuel economy after recalibrating the speedo with my Predator (GPS verified). I'd usually get around 360 miles to a 21gal topoff in my mix of city highway driving but now it's down to 310-320.

I used a shock boot and some zip ties to replace the driveshaft boot that was too short with the lift installed. My local 4x4 shop said this is a rare occurance that happens with some trucks but that most can re-use the factory boot. I guess tolerances stacked up against me, but either way it was an easy fix.

Someday when I get more cash burning a hole in my pocket I'll spring for a Cognito dual shock setup up front with some Fox shox all the way around. It feels a little under damped now when you run into some really nasty pavement at highway speeds. Don't bother with the Bilsteins 5100 singles if you are going to be running in the Dunes haha. For regular daily drivers though with slow speed offroading they are fine.

My only real complaint is the turning radius now. There aren't too many intersections around here that are big enough (3 lanes) to pull a U-turn and it makes for more shifting in the parking lots. You get used to it though and it's not a big deal to plan your next move, you guys that tow a lot or with Duallies, CC/LB's are probably already doing it.

I'll give another update once I have a chance to tow or haul something with the truck.

Wired my turning radius exploded man I can more easily make uturns better than ever

Wired my turning radius exploded man I can more easily make uturns better than ever

If I remember correctly you got the standard knuckles and didn't weld in the new steering stops though right?

I'm using the narrow knuckles and you don't add steering limiters with those so what you get is what you get.

if I weren't running 38's we would have gotten the narrow knuckle instead stayed with standard with out the turn stops....haven't run into any problems with that at all

you guys know if i can use this kit on my truck? 05 3500 gmc srw...thanx:beerchug:

Not sure go to bds-suspension.com

How far is the diff actually dropped on this kit? Im looking for a maximum total of 6" of lift up front so I can just use 4" deavers out back, be level and still fit under my fifth wheel.

Judging from the posts if you ditch the factory bump stop you can get the front end a little lower am I right?

37x13.5 toyos are sounding better and better all the time :D

Yeah but I will have Yo measure the diff

Cognito had better step up there game and produce what is demanded or BDS is going to steal the show.

How far is the diff actually dropped on this kit?



That's a great question because that is one thing that I heard about this kit that a shop installed and said that the kit was not equally drooped. I don't know for sure that is why I am asking.

The cross members are dropped a full 7" along with the diff?

Thats a good question, it doesnt make any sense for a lift kit to not drop the diff down the same distance as the lower control arms. Why would it be done any other way?

Thats a good question, it doesnt make any sense for a lift kit to not drop the diff down the same distance as the lower control arms. Why would it be done any other way?


There are kits out there like that believe it or not. Some kits will state a 6" and only drop the diff 4.5" :(

The LCA's are dropped 6", not 7". I would assume the diff is the same drop. It is hard to tell though as the Diff drops below the lower "Crossarm", so it does look like it is a 7" drop? I have this kit, it rides way better than the Rancho previously, but the narrow knuckles are a pain in the A$$.

The LCA's are dropped 6", not 7". I would assume the diff is the same drop. It is hard to tell though as the Diff drops below the lower "Crossarm", so it does look like it is a 7" drop? I have this kit, it rides way better than the Rancho previously, but the narrow knuckles are a pain in the A$$.


So I guess you have to crank an inch still to get the full 7", that means it really couldnt be cranked to 9". Are the knuckles a pain because of the steering radius?

The diff isn't dropped no 7" I can tell you that. I think that's where they get the "high clearance from". Cranking the T-bars raises the diff in relation to the lower contol arms (at the lower balljoint) therefore giving you more clearance in the center of the truck. After I took my bumpstops out and lowered the front end a little the CV angles are still slightly greater than stock. That is why I was having troubles with UCA clearance at the reccomended BDS settings. In other words CV's and balljoint angles are maxed @ 7".

The kit isn't bad but don't expect to buy it and stretch another inch or two out like you can with some other lifts. Luckily for me when I bought it I was planning on running it about as low as I could with 35's so it worked out for me anyway. I wouldn't try 37's unless you are willing to trim or have an aftermarket front bumper. If Cognito had the 7" kit with a NTB drop option I would rather have it hands down.

The high clearance name is from the NTBD design ;)

Id be perfectly happy with a 6" lift out of this thing, Ive got a lot of trimming done to fit my 35s with just cranked bars, if with this lift I could run 37s it would be perfect. Gotta watch my bedrail clearance for the fifth wheel, I can only go up another 6" total over what I have now :(

NOR-CAL NICK....any input? trying to compare the BDS NTBD 7" to the cognito 7"-9". I would like to run 37"s, dont mind trimming the fenders. I would like to weld and cut on the frame or main components as little as possible. The BDS lift seems to keep most of that to a minimal, where as the cognito lift completely removes the crossmember frame section. The CV angles seem to be a lot better with the cognito though. Just looking for some input trying to figure out what kit. Thanks guys!

I wish I could tell you from first hand but I have not seen the BDS first hand yet.

What do you mean by "cognito completly removes the crossmember frame section"?

From what Ive seen the only thing the cognito kit removes is the upper ear on the diff, which they now sell a replacement for if you for some reason needed to return it back to stock.

The bds lift is awesome

Does the BDS kit lift the truck as high as a Cognito and keep the cv angles nice and straight? Can someone answer that? I know the Cognito is a true 7" lift with stock cv angles.

Cv angles are not stock straight, but that doesn't seem to be a factor with the lift. Everything works perfect. Feels just right, I mean come on people bds made an awesome, lower cost lift that does the job. No need to knock anything that works but is cheaper than the other guy....

1slow01Z71 - If you downlaod and read the installation instructions for the cognito lift its shows complete removal of the front crossmember. NOT a huge fan of taking a chunk like that off of the frame, just me. BDS's lift didnt seem to do that if I am not mistaken.

wally3614 - I am not knocking the BDS lift by any means just trying to determine which one to purchse for my truck. Simply weighing out the pro's and con's. From the pictures i have seen of the lift, the clearance is great but the angles are pretty steep. On top of that the whole idea of the cv being pulled out so far that the boot doesn't fit properly and having to secure it with wire ties and a shock boot isn't appetizing, good lift or not. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against them, just trying to make the right purchase with as little cutting/welding as possible to the frame.

BDS Linkage look stronger than the Cognito's. Cognito's little linkage arm makes me nervous and have heard of the breaking.

oh man I wasnt meaning that you were knocking it sorry....i was just speaking in general cause some people on here do knock it. Look, I have had nearing every lift made....nearly, and I will say, for the money, BDS IS BAD ASS....The ride is unbeatable with the stock tires. It rides better than factory. I didnt even crank my torsion bars...I put a bds body lift on the 7" Suspension, what i had to was:
Trim the bumper just a bit
move the ladder bars backwards(cause i didnt want to lift them up)
and I fit 38's on 20x12s bichezzz!

I haven't installed my kit yet. I was wondering if anyone used 6" deavers with this kit? I have 5" springs and now I think I want 6" to avoid any rear sagging look as the front breaks in. I don"t mind having a little bit of a rake look either. I do tow with this also so 6" may help it look level during towing. ( a little depending on weight) Thanks

also WALLY3614 if you don"t mind me asking how much $ was your 3" body lift and what brand is it.

i am sorry it was performance accessories and it cost me 400bux plus install, i got the body and lift all done for 3300bux total, their site is
http://www.performanceaccessories.com/catalog/chevy.htm

i got the body and lift all done for 3300bux total

Is that what you paid for all parts plus install or just the install? If that included everything thats a dam good deal.

Yeah that Was fir the body and suspension an all parts/labor yeah I know it was a good deal!

Finally after six weeks of waitng ever so patiently. My friend will be starting my kit tomorrow. Its 2:00am and I still can't sleep. Its like christmas. Anyone have any suggestions or useful info that's not included in the directions

I don't think you should weld the turn stops on. I didn't and it is killer. I whip a uturn n the road easier then my wifes pathfinder. Bds rules .

thanks wally3614 I will take that advice. I swing a u turn out of my parking spot everyday. Great info.

does anyone know. do the factory rear breaklines need to be extended

I zip tied them and it is just fine

Is 7" as high as the kit will go? Or can it be raised to 8-8.5" without any issues?

I amm pretty you can crank the torsion bars over an inch if you wanted

Rear is done. We forgot to go pick up the torsion bar tool. So we finished the rear first. The front will be complete tommorow.

Picks picks

I'll try putting some up tonight when we get the front done. I'm having the alignment done with the stockers on monday so I wont be putting my wheels on till monday night or tues. I'm not sure if I want to keep my KMC or not or just run my H2s. Been thinking about sell the KMC so i can do my exhaust and gears and more shit.

Wow taking a reciprocating saw to your very expensive truck is not easy.

just have to do the steering stabilizers tommorow.

i have the 7 inch bds hc lift on my truck running 37 13.50 17 and its amazing!

Got any pics of it?

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2592528&op=10&o=global&view=global&subj=1711853534&id=594634327 if that link doesnt work let me know and i can post it on here...if i knew how 2 hahah

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2592528&op=10&o=global&view=global&subj=1711853534&id=594634327 if that link doesnt work let me know and i can post it on here...if i knew how 2 hahah
No worky, you need to upload pics to photobucket , then you can copy the link and paste it here. or easier way is to post them in your garage, you can browse thru your pics on your computer and upload them pretty easy.

Would like to see your truck, sounds cool.

If you cant/dont want to figure out the photobucket thing send them to codyh4356@hotmail.com and Ill upload and post them for you :)

ok im going to send i think 2 pics to your e-mail and ill save the rest till i can fiqure out how to put them in my garage lol...im not very computer smart lol

ok i got it....my garage is full with a huge 5! pics hahaha

ok i got it....my garage is full with a huge 5! pics hahaha

Truck looks good. Would like to see the finished product without the whitewalls:D. The like the outcome. I have this lift here and my tires are delivering today. Toyo MT 315/70R18. Hopefully I'll have everything done by week's end.

hahaha yea the newspaper isnt very attractive...but that pic was taken 2 days ago...the rims should be finished today if the rain is over!

Finally done. I'll do some before and after tommorow just wanted to get one up here to get some opinions.

Looks bad!! :cool: Love the NBS trucks with a Lift.

Looks sweet bro! I think the lift looks perfect on the truck!

so i got my rims all painted black and i am very happy with the outcome. let me know what yall think

so i got my rims all painted black and i am very happy with the outcome. let me know what yall think

SWEET did you get them powder coated or just painted????

so i got my rims all painted black and i am very happy with the outcome. let me know what yall think

Truck looks good. I'm digging it. Putting my lift on Monday!

I think it is phaaaaaaaat bro fn sick I love black wheels

thanks alot man im glad that pretty much every1 likes the black. and for your answer all i did was sand...primer...spray paint...wet sand...paint....you get the point lol...and lets see...blackduramax07 i wanna see pics when u get the lift!

ok finally did a good amout of highway miles and I love the way it feels. Now I just need to reset the speedo. We confirmed its 5mph off. Still don't have a good guage on the highway mpg yet( had sons dirt bike and about 700lbs in the bed and 4 people). Was getting 14.2mpg run 315/70/17s

ok finally did a good amout of highway miles and I love the way it feels. Now I just need to reset the speedo. We confirmed its 5mph off. Still don't have a good guage on the highway mpg yet( had sons dirt bike and about 700lbs in the bed and 4 people). Was getting 14.2mpg run 315/70/17s
if your going by your DTC its not correct especially with your Speedo bieng off and your truck having a programmer.

Well we sure didn't lift em for gas mileage:) I get about 10 towing my landscape trailer and haven't taken it on a trip yet to figure out hwy mpg

I figured out how much the speedo was off using two gps.And the mpg were off a hand caculation.

thanks alot man im glad that pretty much every1 likes the black. and for your answer all i did was sand...primer...spray paint...wet sand...paint....you get the point lol...and lets see...blackduramax07 i wanna see pics when u get the lift!
Can you get a cab height measurement to the top of the onstar antenna?

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=88885&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1248829141 (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=88885&d=1248829141) http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=88886&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1248829141 (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=88886&d=1248829141)

Shells actually look real good on lifted trucks:idea:

Shells actually look real good on lifted trucks:idea:


Yeah:D;)

Yeah I thought about it

Yeah:D;)

My truck bed always has stuff in and out of it. I just wish I would of bought a longbed. And the basket wasn't bought for looks I use it on a weekly basis. I'm picking up the extender for the basket friday, now it will be close to the length of the cap.

is the picture of the CV angles a few replies back before or after the lift?

My truck bed always has stuff in and out of it. I just wish I would of bought a longbed. And the basket wasn't bought for looks I use it on a weekly basis. I'm picking up the extender for the basket friday, now it will be close to the length of the cap.
You and me both, Im really wishing I would have gotten a long bed.:rolleyes:

is the picture of the CV angles a few replies back before or after the lift?

They were after the lift was done.

You and me both, Im really wishing I would have gotten a long bed.:rolleyes:

I think as soon as my wife is done her Nurse Anesthetist internship I might try to borrow some of her paycheck and do a longbed conversion.LOL maybe

blackduramax07 i wanna see pics when u get the lift!

Here ya go. Pics aren't that great, took them behind the shop at work this afternoon. Truck is dirty too.

You guys have any idea how far it widens the track width on the front end? And how far it actually drops the diff?

Standard kit supposedly widens track width 1 1/2". Narrow knuckle is supposed to be almost zero.

maybe its just me but those CV angles are a little steep compared to those of the cognito. hows it ride? could you fit 37's?

maybe its just me but those CV angles are a little steep compared to those of the cognito. hows it ride? could you fit 37's?

That's what I was noticing... I get the impression the 7" is really more like a ~5" that is cranked up. More comparable to a 4-6 than a 7-9.

Looks to me like if you left the bumpstops they supply off you can run it as a 6"ish lift.

is the picture of the CV angles a few replies back before or after the lift?

After the lift.

This is my CV angle. I don't think it is bad at all. Truck rides like a dream. I have finally had enough time to run it around town and down the interstate. I am very pleased.

Toyo has my tires listed as a 36x13. They measure out at 35 3/4" mounted on the truck. I didn't measure the actual width. Fitting a 37" would be no problem at all.

^ That is the most bizarre shock setup... wonder why they didn't mount it higher up on the link?

I don't think you should weld the turn stops on. I didn't and it is killer. I whip a uturn n the road easier then my wifes pathfinder. Bds rules .

Do you have the standard width seutp, or the narrow?

^ That is the most bizarre shock setup... wonder why they didn't mount it higher up on the link?

What makes it bizarre? I'm not following.

What makes it bizarre? I'm not following.

They went through all that trouble to clearance the link around the shock... what if you end up running a larger body shock that doesn't fit?

Look at the cognito NTB setups, they don't have that problem.

Do you have the standard width seutp, or the narrow?

The narrow knuckel kit does not come with turn stops.( I though it did until we installed it.

wish BDS had this kit when I got my lift....definitely would have gotten it. I really like how all the trucks with the narrow knuckles look. Only thing about mine I don't like is how it flings water/dirt all over the side of the truck when it's wet out. plus I wouldn't have needed to trim my bumper as much before I cranked the t-bars a little.

maybe its just me but those CV angles are a little steep compared to those of the cognito. hows it ride? could you fit 37's?

I'm resurrecting this old thread because I've been contemplating the 7" BDS or the 7" Cognito (7-9). The one thing I keep reading over and over is about how the BDS has bad CV angles. It just isn't true. After doing some post searching it looks like the BDS drops the diff a full 6" while the Cognito drops the diff a full 7". Below are some CV angle pics comparing the BDS 7" kit and a Cognito 7" kit. I found all of these pics in various posts on this site and wanted to post this info for anyone trying to decide on a lift. I made an extensive list of 'pros' and 'cons' for each kit and either option appears to be a good one.

I guess the "CV angle" contest is won by Cognito on paper (7" drop vs 6" drop), but I can't tell a difference when looking at the pics. The angles on both pics look decent to me.

Pic1 is a NCT installed Cognito 7" kit.
Pic 2 is a BDS 7" kit.
Pic 3 is a another BDS 7" kit (CV closeup).

The truck with the BEEF plate is mine and if you have any specific questions message me. I had the installer hold back on over tightening the torsion bars to ensure a decent ride and prevent excessive wear and tear on the CV's. The 35" tires clear with no problems (slight cuts on the wheel wells and valence were previously made for stock suspension with 285's). I could get another inch out of the front height by tightening the bolts but the added height doesn't outweigh the drawbacks. Lift has been installed for two years (40K miles) with zero issues.

That's what I wanted to hear :D I'm putting mine on next weekend.

want to see pics!

This is my CV angle. I don't think it is bad at all. Truck rides like a dream. I have finally had enough time to run it around town and down the interstate. I am very pleased.

Toyo has my tires listed as a 36x13. They measure out at 35 3/4" mounted on the truck. I didn't measure the actual width. Fitting a 37" would be no problem at all.
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=89046&d=1249074729 (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=89046&d=1249074729)



Do you or anyone else have a picture from the other side of the suspension that they can post, I keep seeing that the compression stop is being compressed at a angle instead of being straight on. I can't see this truck being any lower as it already has pressure against the compression stop as it looks from this pic. I am guessing that this is the best front CV and tie rod angles possible if this truck is how they designed it to stand at ride height, weird?



I'm resurrecting this old thread because I've been contemplating the 7" BDS or the 7" Cognito (7-9). The one thing I keep reading over and over is about how the BDS has bad CV angles. It just isn't true. After doing some post searching it looks like the BDS drops the diff a full 6" while the Cognito drops the diff a full 7". Below are some CV angle pics comparing the BDS 7" kit and a Cognito 7" kit. I found all of these pics in various posts on this site and wanted to post this info for anyone trying to decide on a lift. I made an extensive list of 'pros' and 'cons' for each kit and either option appears to be a good one.

I guess the "CV angle" contest is won by Cognito on paper (7" drop vs 6" drop), but I can't tell a difference when looking at the pics. The angles on both pics look decent to me.

Pic1 is a NCT installed Cognito 7" kit.
Pic 2 is a BDS 7" kit.
Pic 3 is a another BDS 7" kit (CV closeup).


CobraEatr - in defense to either lift CV angles will depend on the end user set up ride height, if the installer sets it high then the CV's will have working angle so pictures are hard to go off of unless we determine the ride height in travel point. I would be really curios to get some suspension shots from the back side of the front UCA/LCA area and then a center hub to fender measurement to get super detailed on what we are comparing in front end angles vs. true side by side ride heights, that's when things really start to get interesting.

Basically it looks like their 7" kit is designed around a 6" drop sub frame and then they have ride height set 1" of pre-load to gain 7". I would like to see how far they drop the front diff.

Well, I got most of the front done today (with only a couple of small issues) I ordered a narrow knuckle kit and they sent a standard and I'm not sure if I want the extra width or not.
The other thing that has me scratching my head is the the torsion bar installation. The instructions say to leave them out and do them at almost the very end of the project. I guess they must clear the axles once they get installed, but I guess I'll find out tomorrow.

I would like to see how far they drop the front diff.

Ditto

Whittaker, throw a tape measure on the diff drop bracket!

I'll have to send the picture off of my phone to my email so I can download it on here, but yes, as near as I could get the cutoff piece back to it's stock location and measuring down to the new mount on the diff, it is 7"
That's where the extent of my good news stops. Yesterday (Wednesday) I got to somewhere around step 60 in the instructions, meaning the diff bracket had already been cut and welded, the stock upper diff mount had been cut off and everything was re-installed and ready to button up....until I tried to install the new knuckle :( First, I found the stock dust cover would not fit on my "suppose to be narrow knuckle" so I called tech support. We determined from the number on the box that I had been sent the standard knuckle instead. (Me not happy at this point) But, after reading several replies about not installing the steering stops, I figured I would just deal with it because I have a trip planned this weekend and need my truck. That's when problem #2 showed it's ugly head. The ball joint for the tie rod doesn't fit in the new knuckle. The taper was not machined correctly. At this point, it's after hours in the mid west where BDS is located, so I'm stuck not being able to talk to anyone about this and my truck is occupying lift space since it can't be moved. Now, today (Thursday) I called the dealer from who I bought the lift to explain the problem at 9:00 PST so that we could get something going for next day air shipping. The lift had been drop shipped to me from BDS because of my request for a "narrow knuckle kit" and they were the ones responsible for shipping, so he would have to get them to ship me a new set. I called every two hours all day long trying to get an update on shipping and at 3:00 PST I was told that overnight shipping was going to be $365 dollars and that wasn't going to happen and the best they could do was next Tuesday. That's 7 complete days of my truck occupying the lift, the only lift this mechanic has and I'm just suppose to shrug my shoulders and say chit happens? I'm super pizzed right now and not sure what to do. So, long story short, I have no updated pics of my truck.

So, here is the best picture I could get after having cut the mount off of the top of the diff.

Any new knews yet on your ball joint fitting in the knuckle. i got my kit in last week. i laid it out on the ping pong table and counted and checked everything. the spacers are some type of plastic now instead of alumium, they told me they are stronger. and i was missing a few washers they claim are not needed for the spacer bolts. I plan on stsarting the install in a month or so. i have the standard track kit with blocks in rear.