Just wondering if anyone here has owned both and can give your opinion on what's better for towing? Fuel mileage and power. I need to buy a new ride soon and was looking for opinions. I will post this in the gasser section also to try and get their input as well. Thanks

lol your screwing with us right?

I should have included that my plan is to turbocharge the 8.1L and was wondering how it would compare with the diesel. Not sure how to ask the question because I doubt anyone has turboed a 8.1L. Stock vs. stock the numbers show the diesel would be better I know.

What's the price difference between a 06 diesel and a 06 8.1L? I'm thinking around $3500.

The diesel is going to be better in any way. My old boss had a 8.1 for a total of a week. Fuel miliage sucked when he was empty and when he was loaded. Don't have acutal MPG he was getting though

fuel mileage is always a consideration.

My 2007 Classic GMC 3500 LBZ CC gets at least 11 mpg hauling three cars (14,000 lbs) using the set up below :D

What's the price difference between a 06 diesel and a 06 8.1L? I'm thinking around $3500.

Try again...Last time I checked, the D/A combo was around $7500.

You can put a blower on an 8.1 or a turbo but stock for stock, you DO realize that there's a 200 lb ft difference dont you? Should be a no brainer. If big blocks pulled loads better, they'd be running very large ones I'd assume in all the semi's out on the roads today.

Not knockin the 8.1. I know it is a good motor and I'd love to get my hands on one...However....Dot...Com....I'd stick with a diesel, especially a 3rd gen motor.

I looked at Kelly Blue Book and typed in a 06 diesel and a 8.1, the diffefence was around $3500 between the two. I'm starting to lean towards the 06-07 Dmax and hoping to find one around $25K-$27K with average miles.

I dont think u would be upset with the diesel. Pulling is a breeze compared to the gasser. Plus with a simple programmer/chip and a free flowing exhaust, your fuel will improve very nicely with the diesel.

Don't know how the 8.1 runs, but my previous 2500 was a 4x4 v10 dodge x-cab with an automatic and ran very well. I gutted the cats and had a cat-back, 180 deg stat, TB spacer, K&N filter and Mallory wires, (i think that was it) and it would pull my trailer pretty good.

I bought this diesel and in dead stock form, this thing would pull same loads 10 times better. It's not sprung the the same, which is my only bitch, but there is no comparison gas vs diesel.

In the dodge, I used to get 8-10 in the city and 10-12 hwy. Pulling a load OTR it would still get 10-11, the truck served me well in the 8 years i owned it.

The diesel hwever, with minimal mods, dollar for dollar, is by far the better decision if you will use your truck for pulling, hauling and such. I get 15-16 city and 17-19 hwy to boot. My tuner in level 3 (40hp tune), in tow/haul mode and 4K-5K load on my flatdeck, this thing pulls like a freight train.

Some get diesels for the stigma that goes with it or the status, but if you need a combo work/personal vehicle diesel is the shit, MHO.

I never had the 8.1 but I did own a 454 previous to my current truck and let me tell you there is no comparison. Pulling the same trailer to Myrtle Beach I got 6-7 mpg out of the 454 compared to 11-12 out of my stock duramax. The 454 pulled one hill in VA. in 2nd gear and I topped it at 40 mph. The same hill one year later with the duramax in 6th gear at 75 mph with more pedal left. Now I just set the cruise and sit back.

I should have included that my plan is to turbocharge the 8.1L and was wondering how it would compare with the diesel. Not sure how to ask the question because I doubt anyone has turboed a 8.1L. Stock vs. stock the numbers show the diesel would be better I know.

There is a user on here that has a supercharged 8.1. I'm sure it pulls well, but dollar for dollar, you can get WAY more power out of a diesel, opposed to tinkering with a gas motor and it's gonna pull better all day long.

And Unit453 quoted you 7500 for the D/A option, that was on a new truck. And since you're considering the gasser option, you must not be planning on a long ownership term, because the long-term durability of a hopped up gasser used for towing is questionable at best. And if you're towing over any type of distance, the fuel mileage difference would make your eyes water.:eek: Here's a hint. You know that 3500 dollar difference you mentioned between the two trucks? Fuel costs will make that difference up VERY quickly.

Long story short, diesels were built for this...so why not get one instead of trying to turn a gasser into something it's not?

I had a 2001 8.1 EC SB. Had power alright, but your going to get 8-10 MPG and this is stock. I got my 6.6 and never been happier with power AND mileage. Go with the diesel, even if you do turbocharge it, it probably won't pay itself off with all the mods your going to have to do... Just my .02.
-Steve

Had an 05 8.1. Purchased BRAND NEW. Traded it in 2 months later for the D-Max. I have not stopped smiling since. Went from towing 16K and getting 7mpg to 12-13. Oh yeah.....I can actually maintain speed going UP hill now!!!

Thanks for all the replies! You all just helped me decide to go for the diesel. Time to start looking, I just put a wanted ad in here. I don't plan on modding too much so what should I look for a used LBZ or LMM? I like both.
Thanks

LBZ will get better mileage stock because of the emissions stuff with just about the same power other then that looks is about the only differance.

Thanks for all the replies! You all just helped me decide to go for the diesel. Time to start looking, I just put a wanted ad in here. I don't plan on modding too much so what should I look for a used LBZ or LMM? I like both.
Thanks

Can't go wrong with either. LMM has more emmisions crap to deal with, but you can get around it. LMM is gonna cost ya a lot more, as they're obviously newer. Both great motors, though.

My friend HAD an 8.1 and sold if for a Duramax. That should tell you something. He tows a 35 ft. toy hauler. Expect 10 mpg AND less with the 8.1.

Ive had both, go with the diesel, you won't regret it. I can get the almost the same mileage with my duramax loaded at 20k plus than both of my 8100s empty. I had a 02 4x4 with 6 speed manual and a 04 4x4 with the allison, both gassers got a best of 13.7 mpg empty and around 7 mpg towing and they were both reg/cab long beds. The duramax gets 12 mpg towing and 19 to 21 empty with a 80 horse EFI tune and will blow the doors off of both 8.1s i had.

I had a 7.4L now D/A. No comparison. Also, I dont thyink the 8.1 is offered in HD trucks any more. Last time I looked at new 3500 duallies there was none listed.

I will NEVER go back to gas for towing when it comes to mileage or power. Even at thye higher diesle price it is cheaper than the 5.5 mpg I got with the 7.4L (and struggling on hills)

Duramax: Double the life of a gasser
Duramax: Double the Fuel Mileage vs an 8.1
Duramax: Climbs/Accelerates uphill like nothing else.:D
Duramax: Tows like nothing else.
Duramax: tune up....what tune up.?

Decision...???? What decision.?:cool:

Cheers,

stk

the 07 classic, and all lmm's have the 100k powertrain warranty, the pre 07 is 100k on the engine only.

Duramax: Double the life of a gasser
Duramax: Double the Fuel Mileage vs an 8.1
Duramax: Climbs/Accelerates uphill like nothing else.:D
Duramax: Tows like nothing else.
Duramax: tune up....what tune up.?

Decision...???? What decision.?:cool:

Cheers,

stk

I disagree with the statement in red.

Also I would go with the LBZ

I have never had the big block gas engine when towing, but I have towed extensively with the 5.3. If the 5.3 is any relation, it develops power by downshifting, to the point where you are pulling grades in 2d with the engine screaming, the DMAX with a far heavier tow and wind resistance may drop into 5th...

Plus downgrades fell much more in control, compared to me rapidly downshifting the gas engine's tranny, to control speed.

Gas mileage, well, I have "gas" mileage with the diesel. I drop off a few mpg when towing, but nowhere near the drop off that I had with the gas engine. Again, that is a much smaller engine.

I've used both to pull trailers and the diesel has more power and the mileage while towing or just driving around is significantly better.

i would never own another gas rig after owning my diesel rigs, you wont regret the diesel at all.

Turbocharging an 8.1 won't be good if you are towing. You have to really watch your EGTs and a turbo won't help this situation without some serious tuning time.

I disagree with the statement in red.

Also I would go with the LBZ

Are you serious? I've got a 12 second timeslip and a 528 rwhp dyno printout from a truck with nearly 300,000 miles on it, with NO internal work done (mods or repairs). And as an OTR Dmax owner, I'd have to disagree with you.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n66/ARbowhunter7/100_0172.jpg

Just wondering if anyone here has owned both and can give your opinion on what's better for towing? Fuel mileage and power. I need to buy a new ride soon and was looking for opinions. I will post this in the gasser section also to try and get their input as well. Thanks

I've owned both in the same crew cab, long-bed dually configuration...

I had an '04 8.1L with the 4.10 locker and it pulled just as well as my LBZ...I had no problem keeping up with anyone pulling an equivalent amount of weight. It's just my LBZ gets twice the fuel mileage doing it.

Kevin. I fully expect 500k+ (miles not km), outa my Duramax. Had it been a gasser, my "life" expectations would have been significantly lower.. more like ~250k.

Just my opinion. I'm not a mechanic nor a diesel "expert"...but have owned just a few vehicles in the past 56 yrs....and that is where said opinion comes from.

rgds,

stk

Moved to the Towing section! Brought back by popular demand!

I owned an 03' 8.1 with the manual 6 spd tranny in the crew short bed and I now have an 08' LMM crew short bed. The LMM pulls the same summit(Parley's) here in Utah 20 MPH faster than the 8.1 pulling the same load shown in my garage(fifthwheel and four wheeler combo), on straight Hwy's you could go as fast as you dared to in the 8.1 as well as the LMM. As far as fuel economy goes I haven't seen too much difference except around town the LMM does get better mileage, I only have 7,000 miles on it and I'm praying it gets better. The 8.1 was real close to 14 mpg no the hwy not towing and the LMM is 15.9 mpg.They both were 8-10 mpg towing.

Are you serious? I've got a 12 second timeslip and a 528 rwhp dyno printout from a truck with nearly 300,000 miles on it, with NO internal work done (mods or repairs). And as an OTR Dmax owner, I'd have to disagree with you.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n66/ARbowhunter7/100_0172.jpg


Now That's Impressive! Nice! 408,505 miles. WOW

I've got a 2001 CC/SB with 8.1 and empty the best I get is 10mpg. Towing 13K fifth wheel around 6-7mpg at 65mph. The long steep hills make it down shift into 4th and rev at 3300-3600. I know that the big block is built for this, but I don't like the mileage. I bought an 08 LMM yesterday.

I personally would get the diesel. I have had the gas and now I have a diesel and by far the diesel is the way to go.;)

My friend got rid of his 7.3 powerstroke for a 8.1 and his now looking for a dmax because he hates the mileage he gets with his 8.1 when he's pulling his drag car.

I have both engines ATM right now

8.1 in the Suburban

6.6 in the 3500

Ill let you know when we tow with the diesel

You should always carefully calc the mpg improvement vs additional cost of vehicle. It might take you a very long time, if ever, to break even. You have to get it down to cost per mile and then figure out how many miles you drive a year and see how far out the break even point is.

Like my daily drive, 150 miles a day, my "old" car was getting 19 mpg consistently, and with everyone telling me I should get a hybrid, looking at the costs, it would take me 8+ years @ 35K miles a year to break even 1 penny! Even at 55 mpg and the peak of this summers gas prices I would be losing money for a long long time. So I picked up a Supercharged 3800 Buick and average 27 mpg and am $ ahead very very fast.....

So always do diligence, is it worth it, so you are a tad slower on hills with a 8100 vs a DMax, but if it is something that isn't a DD or low mileage a year, you might not ever recoup the cost adder till you sell it.

I have a 2008 stock LMM 4x4 CC/SB with Duramax/Allison.
I also have a 98 4x4 ext cab/SB with 454/4L80E. The 98 has a 1978 Ford F350 Dana 60 front axle with the dual piston calipers. It also has 4.88:1 axle gears with 35" tires. The engine is stock except for a K&N air filter, 160* thermostat and Hypertech programmer. This truck easily can pull and stop 12K lbs on the bumper without trailer brakes. The lower gear ratio and larger brakes made a huge difference. Loaded it gets around 6-8 mpg and empty it gets around 8-10 mpg. Not too good.

I recently purchases the LMM and regularly pull in excess of 25k lbs on short trips between farms on hilly roads. Without a doubt this truck can move and stop more weight. I feel safer in this truck when loaded. Loaded it gets around 9-10 mpg and empty it gets around 18-20 mpg. The only problem is that in my area, gas is $1.75/gal and diesel is $2.57/gal.

So, for commuting empty, either truck costs about the same in fuel and when loaded, the gas truck is actually cheaper. But, if the load is more than 10k lbs, the LMM is the only way to go.

The LMM might be faster in a straight line drag race, but the gasser is still a blast to drive. As much as I like the Duramax, I still really enjoy the snap of the gas motor and the low gears. With a few mods, the Duramax may become my favorite, hands down.

My buddy has a 2500 4x4 suw w/ the 8.1. He pulls a 27 foot enclosed trailer that weighs at most 10K. I have an 06 cc/lb 3500 sw 4x4 and I haul a 40 foot toyhauler that weighs 17K loaded. We get the same towing mileage, but he is so far behind me he wishes he could eat my dust. When we pull hills he is screaming his 8.1 while I am cruisin' at 1800 rpm. I like the 8.1, but it aint no DMAX!

The towing comparison depends on the year and the gears in the 8.1. In 2002, my 8.1 (ZF-6) with 4.10 gears (not available in the DM) would outpull the DMax of that year. But that DMax did not have a whole lot more torque than the 8.1 at that time. And the higher HP of the 8.1 would give it a slight advantage on the hills — running at 4500 rpm. Very quickly in later models, however, the DMax added HP and lots of torque so that now there's no comparison. My '07 Classic would leave the '02 8.1 far behind — and gets a couple of mpg better. Too, having worked with and massaged a number of big block gassers, there's no practical way to get a lot more out of the 8.1 (except in a motor home by changing the exhaust).

For the past three years i have been towing my 30 foot jayco behind my 8.1 yukonxl 4x4 3 weeks at a time from tampa to bufflo,n.y. and back mostly on the blue ridge pkwy. and skyline drive,love they way it handles no ally but 4.10s worst was 6.7 at 75 and best was 10.0 at 64-65 mph. if it was not for the 3 kids,wife and the kitchen sink packed up in the yukon i would have gone with the d-max pick up...never less the old 8.1 still gets the job done just not as fast on the hills and not at the fuel milage that the d-max gets...:)

Where I am, Diesel is currently about 80 cents higher than gasoline. High MPG numbers are great for reducing the frequency of fuel stops, but for me I have to look at miles per $.

if you're really looking at miles/$, the DA comes out far ahead. towing 10K+, the 8.1 is going to need to be freshened, I would guess, with less than 100K miles. the DA will go at least 200K w/o overhaul. running the same duty cycle - be it city or highway - the DA will far outlast any gasser.

ahm

Hard to say where things are headed, but in early '07 when I bought the DMAx, diesel in our area was less than high test. And it should be noted that when towing, the 8.1 performs very noticeably better on high test gas — I know from experience. That's because the engine does not retard so early on a hard pull (though the 8.1 can run on regular or high test). So compare the diesel to high test if you want the big gasser to perform at its best.

The 8.1 is good for haulin' ass and boats. If you are towing rather heavy all the time, get the Dmax. My uncle owns a 8.1 and he gets about 7 MPG loaded with his boat (Glastron sx 195) on the highway. He admits that the diesel would be a better choice for hauling heavy or a lot.

Well, I just bought an 08 LMM CCSB 4x4. I just couldn't pass up the killer deal I got. The sticker was $50k and I paid $33k. Thanks for all the helpful advice! I've only driven it 5 miles so far but it seems like a very nice truck.

Congrats on the new buy!! I have owned both and you see what's in my signature now. I liked the 8.1L, it would pass everything but a gas station though. Horrible fuel mileage towing. This is my third Dmax and only had the 8.1 for two months. Really the only reason I got the 8.1 was it was so cheap.

you do realize a boosted 8.1 would get about 6-8 mpg if your lucky and still have less torque than the diesel still

Well, I just bought an 08 LMM CCSB 4x4. I just couldn't pass up the killer deal I got. The sticker was $50k and I paid $33k. Thanks for all the helpful advice! I've only driven it 5 miles so far but it seems like a very nice truck.


gotta a good deal imo

No doubt the diesel will give you better milage and power

Like my daily drive, 150 miles a day, my "old" car was getting 19 mpg consistently, and with everyone telling me I should get a hybrid, looking at the costs, it would take me 8+ years @ 35K miles a year to break even 1 penny! Even at 55 mpg and the peak of this summers gas prices I would be losing money for a long long time.


I agree totally, I have a 100 mile commute daily - which makes more sense, to keep a less economical, paid for reliable car, or immediately kill a new car's resale value. As I say, "What am I going to have, a car that is worthless regardless?" It costs me far less money to maintain and fix my vehicles than it would to buy another. I have a friend with a 170 mile daily commute, he figures he will have to drive his car 237,000 miles to break even, at the rate he racks up the mileage.

Of course, he is also the one that constantly thinks - buy a Hyundai /KIA for $9-10,000 and put it on the curb in the trash to throw it away every 100,000 miles or buy a $20,000+ car.

Go With A Diesel The Hell With A Gasser

i tow with both. the 8.1 is a badass motor. the 8.1 pulls just as good as the duramax. power wise the 8.1 is alot better getting up to speed but the diesel is badass

Just wondering if anyone here has owned both and can give your opinion on what's better for towing? Fuel mileage and power. I need to buy a new ride soon and was looking for opinions. I will post this in the gasser section also to try and get their input as well. ThanksDiesel all the way, 8.1 aint nothing but a boat anchor
8.1 340 hp/455 tq:shake::shake:
6.6 lmm dmax 365 hp /660 tq:ro):ro)you make the decision!!!

Just wondering if anyone here has owned both and can give your opinion on what's better for towing? Fuel mileage and power. I need to buy a new ride soon and was looking for opinions. I will post this in the gasser section also to try and get their input as well. ThanksThat 8.1 ain't nothing but a boat anchor
8.1 340hp/455tq:shake::shake:
6.6 LMM 365hp/660tq:ro):ro)you make the decision

Let me put a turbo or 2 on an 454 or 8.1L and see who comes out on top....Typically a large turbo or twins you can double hp and torque.... Lets be conservative.... 600 hp and 800-900 lb ft torque is easy with twin turbos. Now the playing field is even.

Or lets take off the turbo on the DMax.....


That 8.1 ain't nothing but a boat anchor
8.1 340hp/455tq:shake::shake:
6.6 LMM 365hp/660tq:ro):ro)you make the decision

all i know is that my truck towing a 4500 pound load doesnt have to downshift going upthe hill while my grandpas 4.10 geared 5.3 has to downshift to get up the hill. his truck may be faster unloaded but i get better mileage unloaded and loaded plus the diesel engine sound is a lot better than a gas motors

I was towing a 4000 lb car with a car hauler with my 454 and I could go up a fairly steep grade with it in OD and TCC locked whole way while still retaining 65 mph (speed I was towing at), stayed on cruise the whole way.

I have towed 9K and still did fairly well, won't ever be as fast as a DMax without a SC or Turbo, but still did well and got 10 mpg towing.

[quote=n0dih;3258532]Let me put a turbo or 2 on an 454 or 8.1L and see who comes out on top....Typically a large turbo or twins you can double hp and torque.... Lets be conservative.... 600 hp and 800-900 lb ft torque is easy with twin turbos. Now the playing field is even.

Or lets take off the turbo on the DMax.....[/qute

Its not even, because the diesel will still get better mileage and besides you couldnt afford to fuel a 600 hp big block and drive it across country pulling a trailer.

[quote=n0dih;3258532]Let me put a turbo or 2 on an 454 or 8.1L and see who comes out on top....Typically a large turbo or twins you can double hp and torque.... Lets be conservative.... 600 hp and 800-900 lb ft torque is easy with twin turbos. Now the playing field is even.

But to be truly fair you would have to let the guy with the dmax spend just as much money on his engine as it would take you to get a 600hp gasser.

You can make a Civic faster than a stock 69' Z28 if you do the right things to it. But what would you rather have?

[quote=n0dih;3258532]Let me put a turbo or 2 on an 454 or 8.1L and see who comes out on top....Typically a large turbo or twins you can double hp and torque.... Lets be conservative.... 600 hp and 800-900 lb ft torque is easy with twin turbos. Now the playing field is even.

But to be truly fair you would have to let the guy with the dmax spend just as much money on his engine as it would take you to get a 600hp gasser.

You can make a Civic faster than a stock 69' Z28 if you do the right things to it. But what would you rather have?

The diesel engine costs way more to start with. I like towing with mine!!!!!!

Which is exactly the point. $ for # towing, you can't beat the BBC for a long time (or lots of miles). Sure it isn't as efficient and as much power, it IS far more economical, often for the life of the vehicle. The extra $5K buys a CRAPLOAD of gasoline.

Playing with the math, it says it all. Now I assumed $30K for a gasser, and $35K for a DMax. If that changes, all changes....

All depends on how many miles you drive it and how long you keep and how much the fuel prices are....



[quote=hammercore;3258988]

The diesel engine costs way more to start with. I like towing with mine!!!!!!

[quote=n0dih;3259099]Which is exactly the point. $ for # towing, you can't beat the BBC for a long time (or lots of miles). Sure it isn't as efficient and as much power, it IS far more economical, often for the life of the vehicle. The extra $5K buys a CRAPLOAD of gasoline.

Playing with the math, it says it all. Now I assumed $30K for a gasser, and $35K for a DMax. If that changes, all changes....

All depends on how many miles you drive it and how long you keep and how much the fuel prices are....


I have over 400,000 towing miles on my 79 one ton dually with 454 power, when gas was a dollar cheeper than diesal I towed with my gasser!! That being said, my C4500 with my mods, pulls my trailer much better!!!

I put in 10 mpg for gas towing and 16 for DMax. I have towed with my 454 at 10, I have read about a lot of people towing with a 454 in the 12-15 range. And I am giving the DMax 16 mpg towing, I have heard many tow only in the 10-13 range. So it is still skewed heavily for the DMax and you can see how long it will take to break even. So if a return on your $ is important, gasser.... And the 454's and 8100's are much much cheaper to fix!

Which is exactly the point. $ for # towing, you can't beat the BBC for a long time (or lots of miles). Sure it isn't as efficient and as much power, it IS far more economical, often for the life of the vehicle. The extra $5K buys a CRAPLOAD of gasoline.

Playing with the math, it says it all. Now I assumed $30K for a gasser, and $35K for a DMax. If that changes, all changes....

All depends on how many miles you drive it and how long you keep and how much the fuel prices are....


I have over 400,000 towing miles on my 79 one ton dually with 454 power, when gas was a dollar cheeper than diesal I towed with my gasser!! That being said, my C4500 with my mods, pulls my trailer much better!!!

I put in 10 mpg for gas towing and 16 for DMax. I have towed with my 454 at 10, I have read about a lot of people towing with a 454 in the 12-15 range. And I am giving the DMax 16 mpg towing, I have heard many tow only in the 10-13 range. So it is still skewed heavily for the DMax and you can see how long it will take to break even. So if a return on your $ is important, gasser.... And the 454's and 8100's are much much cheaper to fix!

Resale value????