What fuel treatment is the best bang for the buck, and can putting a little too much be bad (injectors etc)?

Also, are oil treatments worth the cash? (power service diesel lube, STP, etc...)

I'd stay away from any oil treatments--most of them, if not all, are highly non-formulated weasel piss.

The exception may be Lube Control--the guys over at www.bobistheoilguy.com have some good things to say about it, but I'm not totally convinced yet.

As for fuel treatments, you'll get about as many opinions as there are treatments. I personally like Power Service, Stanadyne, and FPPF, but I generally use Stanadyne. Primrose is another very reputable product.

FPPF and Primrose are the best choices IMHO. Now if there ever is a question atthe dealer, tell him you use Stanadyne. This will get you waved through any scrutiny. Stanadyne is not bad, just not as good as FPPF and Primrose. Again my opinion/ personal experience.

Hey John, you ever do any testing on that stuff the Lube Control guy said he was sending you a while back? Just curious.

Hey John, you ever do any testing on that stuff the Lube Control guy said he was sending you a while back? Just curious.
The bulk of it has been sent with an OTR trucker owner/operator who has a good feel for his rig's economy. I haven't had much time to roll the dyno lately as the weather has been sloppy.

Powerservice Diesel Kleen?? Any good, what is the treatment with the highest cetane boost

Kennedy, Any update on running the dyno yet. FP60 will do wonders for diesel. What has the truck owner said about it?

Jeff

Ill repeat my story from 9 months ago....

My neighbor and I both have dmaxes.
He used stanadyne (demulse)
I used Primrose (emulse)
We fill up at same station.
We both cut filters at aprox 10k
His was almost 60% rust.
Mine was spotless.

He switched to primrose after that.

You decide...........


OH >>>> AND I DONT SELL ADDITIVES!!!

what does the rust have to do with the additive? IMO the additive has nothing to do with the rust but helps with gelling, injector deposits, fuel lubricity, cetanem,& ect.,ect., Your buddy must have got the rust from the pump that he filled up at the only way to do a real comparison it is to disassemble the engine and see deposits and wear on fuel system and engine parts. But this my opinion everydody is wrong at one point.

rust could come from the additive demulsifying nature, to drop water out of the fuel and have it collect at the filter. I have seen similar results between my primrose/fppf results and my neighbors additive, albeit not stanadyne but a demulsifier at that. could it be something else ? yes. the debate goes on......

I'll second Kennedy's recommendation on FPPF. I used to run Power Service but saw no benefits and had rust inside my fuel filter cansiter.

The emulsifier allows the water to go through the engine? The de-emulsifer collects the water at the filter where it should.

Thats my take on the info......

This debate will never end. As I remember the issue was that the demulsifier will drop a certain amount of water and it will collect at the bottom of your filter. If you drain often you a probably ok.

But if like most you do not...then it collects and forms rust...now the filter media should stop the rust from going further...but George Morrison did state that the rust in the OEM filter was enough cause for GM to deny warranty...reason..crappy fuel.

Also..George did point out that it is possible to take in a slug of that collected water in a moving truck. It sounded reasonable to me.

I use Primrose. Now either Demuls or Emuls...the amount is small because the additive can only deal with small amounts of water. With regards to a lot of water in fuel due to a bad load ....no additive will help.

Max Owner has it right.

Some Gents that have been racing off-shore diesel MTU 2,500 HP engines use demulsifiers and nothing else. They remove water all the time from the filters.

They are using RACOR brand demulsifiers.

no one is right in this, only opinions. I trust those like George Morrison who deals with this everyday.

Max Owner has it right.

Some Gents that have been racing off-shore diesel MTU 2,500 HP engines use demulsifiers and nothing else. They remove water all the time from the filters.

They are using RACOR brand demulsifiers.


Holy s Censored t! Note the time and date...... ):h

Ill repeat my story from 9 months ago....

My neighbor and I both have dmaxes.
He used stanadyne (demulse)
I used Primrose (emulse)
We fill up at same station.
We both cut filters at aprox 10k
His was almost 60% rust.
Mine was spotless.

He switched to primrose after that.

You decide...........


OH >>>> AND I DONT SELL ADDITIVES!!!I have a question that I hope someone can answer. Were did the rust go in problemchild's fuel? Does the Primrose eat the rust and digest it into clean fuel? I had a long talk with a service manager about fuel additives. We both came up with the same answer. The rust has to either fall to the bottom of the tank, or it has to be caught by the fuel filter. If it falls to the bottom, then it will build up and eventually be picked up by the fuel pump. I am not trying to start a argument, I just want somebody to explain how a Fuel Additive will eliminate rust in your fuel filter.:)

It will Not.

The filter is assigned that job.

Ask George !

Idahofox

Big Moe; I am guessing here.......

The de-emulsifier allows the water/moisture to drop out in the filter. Filter has rust develop in the filter, over time. The tank is plastic, so rust shouldn't form in the tank.......

The emulsifier allows the water/moisture to go through the injectors (encapsilating the water), so no water builds up in the filter.

It is a possibility that rust can be pumped into the tank from the diesel pump at a gas station.

My opinion is.......if rust forms in the filter, its not a big deal because it is doing what it is designed to do. The filter should be changed regularly, so not a really big deal. It may be worth cahnging the filter, say every 7,500 miles, instead of 10,000.

What do others think?

Also, rust can form in the fuel rails, too.

Here is a TSB provided by the Dieseplace on the subject of additives. It's interesting to note that GM states no additives are neccessary for this diesel. I use Stanadyne Performance Formula................SWH...

http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5850&highlight=Fuel+Additives

At Wal-mart the Power Service Diesel Kleen (3 quart bottle) is $11.96 and will treat about 12 tankfuls. A tankful of diesel costs over $50.00. Is it worth an extra dollar to treat my diesel fuel to help the injectors to stay clean? Absolutely!
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I'll second Kennedy's recommendation on FPPF. I used to run Power Service but saw no benefits and had rust inside my fuel filter cansiter.
Dont forget he suggested that the "UNI" air filter was the best for our trucks........

We know how that worked out.

I have a question that I hope someone can answer. Were did the rust go in problemchild's fuel? Does the Primrose eat the rust and digest it into clean fuel? I had a long talk with a service manager about fuel additives. We both came up with the same answer. The rust has to either fall to the bottom of the tank, or it has to be caught by the fuel filter. If it falls to the bottom, then it will build up and eventually be picked up by the fuel pump. I am not trying to start a argument, I just want somebody to explain how a Fuel Additive will eliminate rust in your fuel filter.:)


Your kidding right????

Rust is a by-product of metal meeting water (oxidation).
If water doesnt meet metal then NO RUST.

If the additive I use micro-encapsulates the water and burns it then no rust.

I dont want water sitting all over my system rusting the injectors/pumps/lines/filters/tanks/etc.

Do you??

Dont forget he suggested that the "UNI" air filter was the best for our trucks........

We know how that worked out.
And I still run the UNI in both of my truscks with excellent oil analysis results.

Most dirt bikes and ATVs come with oiled foam filters for a reason...

Kennedy, Any update on running the dyno yet. FP60 will do wonders for diesel. What has the truck owner said about it?

Jeff
The bulk was sent to an OTR trucker who reported no measureable gains. Keep in mind that the real world is tough to set controls, but he stayed within his typical averages for mpg.

Now the lube additive is still unfolding. Initial indications (still a bit premature) are that there may be a decrease in oil consumption.

On the dyno, I found no measureable power gains with the fuel additive, and have not used the oil additive. Thye dyno tests were done on the same "hook" to avoid any variables. Baselined truck, added Fuel Power ran a whole bunch of tests, and retested baseline.

My siding with Kennedy on FPPF is based on how it affects how my engine performs, not on how it handles water in the fuel. I won't know how it handles water until I go through another 10K miles and it is time for a second fuel filter change. I'm not saying it is the best as Power Service is the only other treatment I have used. I am saying that IMO, it is better than Power Service in terms of engine performance.

Dont forget he suggested that the "UNI" air filter was the best for our trucks........

We know how that worked out.

Well, I started using FPPF in my 1999 6.5TD Tahoe in 2000, have used it very successfully since day one in my DMax for 3-1/2 years and 102,000 miles now. No engine or injector issues. Oh, BTW, I've also been using an oiled foam air filter element in my DMax (two generations of Amsoil and now a Uni) with excellent oil analyses for 3-1/2 years and 99,000 miles. No engine, injector or other issues with the air cleaner choice, either.

I use stanadyne p/f, Only 28000 miles 4 filter changes NO RUST or any problems!

Your kidding right????

Rust is a by-product of metal meeting water (oxidation).
If water doesnt meet metal then NO RUST.

If the additive I use micro-encapsulates the water and burns it then no rust.

I dont want water sitting all over my system rusting the injectors/pumps/lines/filters/tanks/etc.

Do you??The rust that was in my filter was not from the filter. When I wiped it out, the inside of the filter was nice and clean. The rust that was present was something that had been introduced to the fuel at the service station, not by oxidation in the fuel filter. When I posted a picture of my fuel filter at 9500 miles (Filter at 9500 miles (http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3996&highlight=BIGMoe)) I was told then, that if I would have used additives it would of been clean. Read my post dated 01-18-2004, 12:53 PM at the same link.
The point I was trying to make is the need for a better filter like the Nicktain, (http://www.nicktane.com/)additives are not going to clean up the crap that is introduced at the service stations. The filter that was replaced when I had to have my pickup towed last week was the same. I am buying my fuel at the place that moves the most fuel in my area.

And I still run the UNI in both of my truscks with excellent oil analysis results.

Most dirt bikes and ATVs come with oiled foam filters for a reason...

I doubt that your oil analysis would be anything but horrible if you drove on the desert roads I do with TALC LIKE dust that fills every pore of my truck.

Your engine would be filled with dirt.

I doubt that your oil analysis would be anything but horrible if you drove on the desert roads I do with TALC LIKE dust that fills every pore of my truck.
I dunno, PC. Spicer used that same "your air is cleaner than my air" analogy and I don't buy it. I drive all over the country in many very dirty airborne situations (just drove from Ohio to Idaho this month). While in Ohio for the last year and a half I lived and commuted every day through some very dusty and dirty agricultural areas daily including working immediately adjacent to a large working limestone quarry with pernicious and constant generation of dust including clouds of it on the roads driven by their trucks and equipment. John Kennedy lives in a similar agricultural area in Wisconsin *and* those who've been to John's shop know that he is on a couple of miles of dirt road with constant traffic and persistant high airborne dust levels 24/7.

PC,


I have used the Uni in new mexico deserts, they are much like you describe. it has worked well, I have also used the OEM in the same environment with very little change in cleanliness. I am using the OEM paper right now, but would not hesitate to use the Uni again.

Isn't this getting a little off topic? It started out Fuel Treatments, now it is going to Air Filters.

:exactly:


Idahofox