http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f60/4-5l-duramax-diesel-delayed-18-months-70869/


Another casualty

:banghead: :bawl: That f Censoredn ruins my day :mad:

I was really looking forward to seeing what this motor could do. O well, what's another 18 months.

would it be a 2012 release? That would suck.

would it be a 2012 release? That would suck.


Just think about all the new pollution mandates that the green libs will be able to force thru between now and 2012. Picture 15 dollar a gallon diesel....

Who's gonna want a truck with those prices ?

GM would be smarter to make a 2 cylinder 50 hp diesel to put in an 800 pound 2 person death trap that gets 150 mpg city.

jb

****kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

That has to be wrong

Does anyone know if this is true? I was planning on purchasing a new crew cab 1500 4.5L next year.

I heard similar rumors here at work; we've developed the engine mounts for the 4.5L; I'll keep everyone posted on our production launches and builds.

I also heard a rumor that Chysler had dropped the Cummins v6 and v8 for there Ram and SUV line up. Cummins is rumored to be pitching the pre-developed program to GM and Ford... potentially Toyota.

Ain't life grand... :)

i thought they were already tooling the factories to build these engines

i thought they were already tooling the factories to build these engines

thats what I was thinking that if the 4.5's were supposed to be available in the summer of 09..... is that the vast majority of the money already would have been spent in preparing the factory.... but its kinda hard to ignore the source. I dunno

if cummins goes to ford or especially toyota I WILL FLIP!!!!!!!!!!! I don't know what i'd do, but you'd hear about it on the news, i can assure you that!!!!!!!!!!!! This country is real close to going to the shiter, time to by an island some where and wait for the dust to settle.

Well isn't this just great.

It is kinda hard to believe, they are so close to production.

It is kinda hard to believe, they are so close to production.


I agree.

I call BS to the OP's link, in my oppinion the 4.5 is still right on schedule for release.

GM is about 2 to 3 months until they run out of money, on a tight leash, no mid design changes, and no new production.

Read on Pickup truck site that Nissan will be using 2 different Cummins engines in their HD. It would be hard to believe that GM is delaying their baby max after how well big brother has done in its market segment. Maybe they don't have a lot of choices right now. Long term it's going to hurt them worse if this is true.

Read on Pickup truck site that Nissan will be using 2 different Cummins engines in their HD. It would be hard to believe that GM is delaying their baby max after how well big brother has done in its market segment. Maybe they don't have a lot of choices right now. Long term it's going to hurt them worse if this is true.


THe next generation titans will (or are planned to) be re-badged dodges, so it makes sense that they would have the cummins available.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081119/congress_autos.html


The financial situation for the automakers grows more precarious by the day. Cash-strapped GM said Tuesday it would delay reimbursing its dealers for rebates and other sales incentives and could run out of cash by year's end without government aid.

Very interesting article DmaxTDI

It doesn't surprise me with the unbelievable difference in cost between gas and diesel ($1+ here in CT). It will be hard to justify to a lot of people other than us diesel fanatics. They'll just stick with the 6.6 since that engine will do what a diesel is intended for and those that need it. Those that would like the cost benefit for the fuel economy just wont see that benefit with the current prices. I was really looking forward to this engine and wanting to see the crate applications. My wife has a Tahoe and would love to have seen it in that.

That really is a shame. I had no intrest in buying one of these because im a 3/4 ton fanatic, but I was interested to see what they could do and what kind of mileage numbers they could pull. I just pray that GM doesn't go in the tank, I don't know what I would do. Maybe I ought to keep my 01 as a backup... haha

Unfortunately I predicted this from the beginning, with the difference in price diesel vs gas it is just not worth it for GM. My personal opinion is that the oil companies are doing this on purpose to kill the high mileage diesel tech that was becoming all the rage.

Who here has emailed GM and told them BUILD THIS NOW? I have and got a rather generic email back saying the 4.5 Duramax will be available after 2009. I know that one email may not make a difference but multiply that by a few thousand and it could alter the outcome for the 4.5 for the better.

With Gm just weeks from collapse, I don't think a million emails to build the engine would do any good.

They are OUT OF MONEY and without Federal Government intervention, will shut down completely.

If they get Federal money and do survive, the Feds will be dictating what they can and cannot build. Pickup trucks are evil in the minds of the Obama feds and they will NOT allow any money to open pickup truck engine plants.

I suspect this engine is history along with new pickup truck and SUV development of any kind.

Yup, Citi bank gets 20 billion in a blink of an eye over the weekend and now these stupid politicians want to see a buisness plan before they let out any money to Detroit.

Like GM/Ford are operating without a buisness plan...and like those dumbass politicians would know a good one if they saw it.

I hope the UAW is proud of their support of Obama...who is hanging them out to dry right now.

This engine was key for GM's diesel future. Chop 2 cylinders off and you have a car engine. Now it is dead on arrival.

In the meantime, Volkswagon at the LA autoshow wins an award for their TDI and any new owner get a 1300 tax credit to boot.

Unbelieveable.

Sure seems like they have forgotten who they work for. Instead of just handing the banks money, start doing some infrastructure projects that would put people to work, that would stimulate the economy. Then people would start buying trucks again for all the road and bridge jobs that need to be done, and that engine would be perfect (fuel econony and performance), what a great truck it would be for the general const. worker, contractor.

And our zombie president continues his disaster tenure. Probably more interested in building his presidential library war chest now with donations from crooks looking for pardons. This government system needs ways to correct itself.

the only real problem with the infrastructure projects is they still cost the gov money and they have to get that money from some where so its either the middle class up has to pay higher taxes or they create a bigger deficit

The GM 4.5L is really what needed the govt stimulus because it creates a new product line based upon diesels.

The disparity of diesel gasoline prices will not continue since refineries are chasing the diesel profit margins and new diesel refining capacity is coming online.

The key was this engine was going to be GM's North American entry.

All the other crap of infrastructure...although good...if it does not make us more globally competitive then it is worthless...we need a payback or will be deeper in a hole.

I believe diesels and diesel hybrids would be the way forward for the intermediate future.

Yup, Citi bank gets 20 billion in a blink of an eye over the weekend and now these stupid politicians want to see a buisness plan before they let out any money to Detroit.

Unbelieveable.

Citi is 100 times the size of GM, doesnt have the long term(past and future) problems and would have 100 times the negative effect if it failed.

100 times the size and screwed up 100 times greater.

Once you open up the food line, where does it stop??

You cannot tell me the banking system did not profit from all this leverage on worthless paper...and now they have their hand out.

If you let GM go down so should Citi so should all of them.

All this proves that the bankers and wall street bigs had the money to buy congress and GM did not.

The auto industry spent a record $70 million lobbying congress in 2007. Many bankers and brokers are now in unemployment lines.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080501/AUTO01/805010347

the only real problem with the infrastructure projects is they still cost the gov money and they have to get that money from some where so its either the middle class up has to pay higher taxes or they create a bigger deficit

Maybe if we stop spending $10 billion/month in Iraq we could actually afford to make some improvements to our own country...

The auto industry spent a record $70 million lobbying congress in 2007. Many bankers and brokers are now in unemployment lines.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080501/AUTO01/805010347

To put things in perspective, the auto industry spend $70 million for lobbiest. Not a good thing in my book, but...

Excerpts from http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2008-03-13-3104989809_x.htm

Regarding CEO Vikram Pandit,
"And to convince Pandit to stay with the troubled bank while he works to extricate it from losing bets on mortgages and the now-frozen credit markets, Citigroup's board in January signed off on awards valued at about $102 million. That includes a $2.5 million retention equity award; nearly $27 million worth of stock, and 3 million options that in January were worth around $73 million."
.
.
.
"Pandit was not the only executive at Citi to earn big incentive awards in January.

The filing said that in January 2008, Citigroup approved a $1.95 million cash bonus, $3.09 million in stock awards under the company's Capital Accumulation Program (CAP) and $1.95 million in retention equity awards for Win Bischoff -- the Citi veteran who was named chairman of the company in December.

For Gary Crittenden -- who was named CFO last February -- Citi in January approved a cash bonus of $2.85 million, $4.59 million in stock awards under CAP, and $5.35 million in retention equity awards.

Meanwhile, Citigroup approved in January total incentive and retention awards of $19.3 million for Citi's Global Banking CEO Michael Klein; $12 million in total awards for Citi's Global Wealth Management CEO Sallie Krawcheck; $8.3 million in total awards for Vice Chairman Lewis Kaden; and $10.25 million in total awards for Vice Chairman Stephen Volk."

Note, those were all just bonuses. As in ON TOP OF base salary. This was after Citi lost ~$10 billion in the 4th quarter of 2007.

So yeah, I'm glad they gave Citi another $20 billion... NOT

Maybe if we stop spending $10 billion/month in Iraq we could actually afford to make some improvements to our own country...

Ya until it goes back to the it was and 3k more people die in an attack on us.

I know cummins is doing good because the big honcho owner of cummins lives less than a mile from me in like a 12,000 sq foot house that he built last year. They have like 10 cars but i never see any cummins out there...

Ya until it goes back to the it was and 3k more people die in an attack on us.

BINGO!!!!
OK yeah the wars are not popular (never are) BUT we are over there, let's not do the tyipical amaerican thing and sweep it under the rug... we need to finish something for ONCE. I'm in the military, and I've been to both sopts (Iraq and Afghanistan) and if I need to go back I will. I TOTALY understand that the Army is HATEING LIFE due to the long deployments and the hardships. BUT on the flip side, guess what most of those 18-22 year old people are doing when they get back??????? BUYING that new car or truck.... pimpin out their older car or truck.... buying a house... we all get some extra pay, and it adds up.... NOW I'm not saying combat bonus's are going to jumpstart the economy (and you can't spend it if you are dead)

BUT there is a positive side to that too.

OK, back to the orriginal topic. yeah we need to finish up overthere, because the world opinion of us is LOW... we go in, make a mess, and leave it as a mess... I'm not plaesed who we are gonna have as presedent but he IS my boss, so OK I've got to work with him... let's just try to get something done.


SERIOUSLY back to OT. they REALLY NEED to get this motor onto the market. again it will fit where ever a 5.3 V8 fits.... this ALREADY has the potential to go into LOTS of vehicles in the GM line up. and yeah some would need to be detuned, but think about an impalla or any other car with this motor in it!!!!!! MAD MILAGE NO DOUBT!!!!!!

Yes, let's stay in Iraq, Afghanistan, keep troops in Europe, Japan and Korea. Let's keep pouring money down the UN rathole and provide billions in foreign aid. Let's enact carbon cap and trade and make manufacturing here even more expensive. Free healthcare to everybody !

We can just print more and more money to pay for it all. This way, in 3 years after hyper-inflation sets in, you will be making $ 100 an hour. Unfortunately, a new 2500HD (If GM still exists) will cost $ 250,000and Diesel to fuel it will be $ 18 a gallon.

The US is bankrupt. We pissed away our manufacturing base to China and believed the idiots that said we could prosper with a service based economy.

We are a second rate power, we just don't know it yet cause idiots in the World keep lending money to us to pay for us policing the world.

Shafermike/// Could not be said better!!!

it was said the best by John Lennon from the constitution of the USA, WE THE PEOPLE, are the victims of the insane.

Yes, let's stay in Iraq, Afghanistan, keep troops in Europe, Japan and Korea. Let's keep pouring money down the UN rathole and provide billions in foreign aid. Let's enact carbon cap and trade and make manufacturing here even more expensive. Free healthcare to everybody !

We can just print more and more money to pay for it all. This way, in 3 years after hyper-inflation sets in, you will be making $ 100 an hour. Unfortunately, a new 2500HD (If GM still exists) will cost $ 250,000and Diesel to fuel it will be $ 18 a gallon.

The US is bankrupt. We pissed away our manufacturing base to China and believed the idiots that said we could prosper with a service based economy.

We are a second rate power, we just don't know it yet cause idiots in the World keep lending money to us to pay for us policing the world.

x3

Maybe if we stop spending $10 billion/month in Iraq we could actually afford to make some improvements to our own country...

Amen to that brother. Let's fix the problems here before we start trying to show other countries how to fix theirs. The bottom line is it's GM's own fault for agreeing to ridiculous wage increases that put uaw workers on avg. $30/hr over their non union counterparts. I recently read in USA today article that GM's out dated health ins costs on avg $5000/ yr for ea employee. That's a operating cost that is simply not sustainable in a global, competitive market. STUPID. No wonder the feds are leary of giving them a handout.

i am sure GM has renovation work going on in N.Y. and will get engine into production. might see sold under government contract to GSA, with cat(post turbo in V) and dpf upclose to engine, park service banned diesel's due to dpf starting fires in tall grass. congress allowed 75cent increase per gallon of diesel to help oil companies fund equipment to make ULSD. i don't know why GM did not produce 4cylinder duramax, could have run down same manufacturing line. GM won't meet CAFE standards without diesels, europeans are more concerned with fuel economy than emmisions, actually that is why more diesels over there and diesel price is controlled(subsidized like ethanol here). Flexible and allison had electric assist hybrid buses(i read 10 had shown upto new orleans just before katrina and got destroyed). the 1500's with onsite power option(flywheel generator) downsized version, works same as locomotive. running charges batteries, take off from stop, field motorized to assist, good for 10-30% savings.

Yes, let's stay in Iraq, Afghanistan, keep troops in Europe, Japan and Korea. Let's keep pouring money down the UN rathole and provide billions in foreign aid. Let's enact carbon cap and trade and make manufacturing here even more expensive. Free healthcare to everybody !

We can just print more and more money to pay for it all. This way, in 3 years after hyper-inflation sets in, you will be making $ 100 an hour. Unfortunately, a new 2500HD (If GM still exists) will cost $ 250,000and Diesel to fuel it will be $ 18 a gallon.

The US is bankrupt. We pissed away our manufacturing base to China and believed the idiots that said we could prosper with a service based economy.

We are a second rate power, we just don't know it yet cause idiots in the World keep lending money to us to pay for us policing the world.

x4

Very sad! but true, I hate to see what its going to be like in 5 years or so.
I can't trust the stock market anymore and I'm having doubts in trusting our banks. Keep on printing money like we're doing just makes it worth less. Well said shafermike, sounds like you would be useful as a congressman! Are we doomed?

yeah this engine was a nice idea:(

4cyl.Duramax-Isuzu 1982, the same yr 1st Hummer

x4

Very sad! but true, I hate to see what its going to be like in 5 years or so.
I can't trust the stock market anymore and I'm having doubts in trusting our banks. Keep on printing money like we're doing just makes it worth less. Well said shafermike, sounds like you would be useful as a congressman! Are we doomed?

Definetly going to get worse before it gets better and people need to prepare for that fact.

Definetly going to get worse before it gets better and people need to prepare for that fact.


I agree with your statement. Unfortunately, it will get worse before better.

Now, I've heard rumors that it’s starting to get expensive to get engineering work done overseas. In turn certian companies are now thinking about bringing the work in-house again. If that's true, then more jobs should be created over the next few years, which would be good news. However, I am still concerned that with the loss of manufacturing jobs since NAFTA was passed we could still be in trouble. It seems like we’ve been in a downhill slide since then. Now, if NAFTA gets reversed, maybe there might be some hope for the great USA. Another thing that would help is for people to start buying american cars and trucks again.

Yup, Citi bank gets 20 billion in a blink of an eye over the weekend and now these stupid politicians want to see a buisness plan before they let out any money to Detroit.

Like GM/Ford are operating without a buisness plan...and like those dumbass politicians would know a good one if they saw it.

I hope the UAW is proud of their support of Obama...who is hanging them out to dry right now.

This engine was key for GM's diesel future. Chop 2 cylinders off and you have a car engine. Now it is dead on arrival.

In the meantime, Volkswagon at the LA autoshow wins an award for their TDI and any new owner get a 1300 tax credit to boot.

Unbelieveable.



Just thought I'd say you can't blame shit on Obama until he is actually in power and can make the decision to pump money into the right places. If you want to blame someone for the economy blame Bush he screwed you guys over. but thats just my 5 cents

Yup, Citi bank gets 20 billion in a blink of an eye over the weekend and now these stupid politicians want to see a buisness plan before they let out any money to Detroit.

Like GM/Ford are operating without a buisness plan...and like those dumbass politicians would know a good one if they saw it.

I hope the UAW is proud of their support of Obama...who is hanging them out to dry right now.

This engine was key for GM's diesel future. Chop 2 cylinders off and you have a car engine. Now it is dead on arrival.

In the meantime, Volkswagon at the LA autoshow wins an award for their TDI and any new owner get a 1300 tax credit to boot.

Unbelieveable.



Just thought I'd say you can't blame shit on Obama until he is actually in power and can make the decision to pump money into the right places. If you want to blame someone for the economy blame Bush he screwed you guys over. but thats just my 5 cents

Just thought I'd say you can't blame shit on Obama until he is actually in power and can make the decision to pump money into the right places. If you want to blame someone for the economy blame Bush he screwed you guys over. but thats just my 5 cents

I'm sure you could do a better job handling things....all you Bush haters could.:rolleyes:

YIKES!! now i am worried,( Glass desert)does that mean Thermo-nuclear????

Just thought I'd say you can't blame shit on Obama until he is actually in power and can make the decision to pump money into the right places. If you want to blame someone for the economy blame Bush he screwed you guys over. but thats just my 5 cents
Technically, Congress is to blame as well as they must work with the President in order to get anything done. Obama is in the Senate, which is part of Congress - and therefore he's already got some of the blame for the crap that is happening - even his voting "Present" displaces a real vote that should be made.

It is foolish and ignorant to blame a portion of our government for something that the executive and legislative branches have worked together to screw us over with. There's plenty of blame to go around.

GM's got a bunch of nice diesel engines available in the rest of the world. Our EPA won't allow them here. Whatever happened to the part of the swearing in about "Enemies foreign and domestic"? I don't think the EPA is on our side...

Technically, Congress is to blame as well as they must work with the President in order to get anything done. Obama is in the Senate, which is part of Congress - and therefore he's already got some of the blame for the crap that is happening - even his voting "Present" displaces a real vote that should be made.

It is foolish and ignorant to blame a portion of our government for something that the executive and legislative branches have worked together to screw us over with. There's plenty of blame to go around.

GM's got a bunch of nice diesel engines available in the rest of the world. Our EPA won't allow them here. Whatever happened to the part of the swearing in about "Enemies foreign and domestic"? I don't think the EPA is on our side...

Well said

i'm hoping this motor doesn't go away. It gives what us old LB7 owners had for power with likely a boost in economy. However until diesel and gas get closer in price it still isn't worth it for me to go back the way I used my truck. It still pays for many doing a lot of heavy towing, that wasn't me. I'd love a little 4 cylinder diesel malibu or impala that got 40+ though.

Just thought I'd say you can't blame shit on Obama until he is actually in power and can make the decision to pump money into the right places. If you want to blame someone for the economy blame Bush he screwed you guys over. but thats just my 5 cents


I hope you enjoy the lower living standards your higher cost of living gives you in the People Republic of Canada.

The only people responsible for GM tanking and the need for a bailout is GM.
While the trucks/SUV are world class their cars, with few exceptions, have sucked since the mid-70s.
Politics and the EPA has nothing to do with their problems.

Yep! When GM goes down, the other car companys will be fighting over buying the future R&D technology that GM has amassed, all the diesel tech and very important ,the direct injection Gas tech with no throttle body,plus some of the best computor tech. yes! they will all want a piece. like dogs fightin over a dead deer.
such a shame!! has anybody ever read how much GM has contributed to the worlds cars and trucks. Ron

The only people responsible for GM tanking and the need for a bailout is GM.
While the trucks/SUV are world class their cars, with few exceptions, have sucked since the mid-70s.
Politics and the EPA has nothing to do with their problems.

I would agree that GM cars sucked from the mid 70's to the mid 80's but by the late 80's they were much better and GM's current cars are just as good as the imports..... they just have a hard time shaking the bad rap from years past.

I had an 98 Caviler that had fewer repairs at 125k than my wifes 04 Sienna had at 25k miles. That thing was still going strong at 170k when replaced it.

I currently drive an 08 cobalt that is a sweet little car. That ecotech 2.2 is just as smooth and vibration free as the smooth as silk 6cyl in my wifes old 190 benz. My cobalts got 20k miles on it with Zero problems... only been back to the dealer for oil changes...... IIRC, the Sienna had been back to the dealer at least three times within 20k miles.

IMHO, the single biggest downfall of the big three is the UAW. Its hard for them to be competitive when they have about a $2k MORE in labor/benefits/retirement costs per car than Toyota/Honda/Nissan

i would like to know what other(foreign) car companies will spend as much as gm on R/D. i've heard of all kind of wild stuff, problem is they come up with good idea's but suits kill it, mostly due to epa regs. wish gm would go into chptr11 and sweep the bugs out. think part of gm's problem is they keep selling-off component part mfgr's, with that they loose control of quality control, especially when part is made 1/2way around globe. for instance bosch/europe has had low/ultra-low sulpher diesel and common rail systems since around 1993, they(bosch) should have known how injectors on lb7 would function(still would like to know where engine/cylinder head/injector failure to manufacture dates clusters merge at) gm needs to get this engine out, have available to sell as economy improves and not wait.

i'm hoping this motor doesn't go away. It gives what us old LB7 owners had for power with likely a boost in economy. However until diesel and gas get closer in price it still isn't worth it for me to go back the way I used my truck. It still pays for many doing a lot of heavy towing, that wasn't me. I'd love a little 4 cylinder diesel malibu or impala that got 40+ though.




I have a little 3 cyl perkins I'll sell ya

I hope you enjoy the lower living standards your higher cost of living gives you in the People Republic of Canada.


You only have lower standards of living if you don't get the education to keep you employed in a high paying job to offset the higher cost of living. I became a welder to make $100.00/hr so I don't have to worry about the way I live. I'd love to live in the USA and make less money and get things dirt cheap but I'm too busy working right now to worry about moving. Besides most have you have been spoilt by the gas prices down there, seeing how I was paying $1.40 per liter or $5.54 per gallon for 8 months when the prices went up and I said I might have to get a gasser when it hit $3.00 per liter, but I guess I have to say is we all got something bad to say about someone we don't know. Don't want to piss people off here but this is a great site where you can say most whatever you want and learn a lot more about your truck than half the mechanics working on it

A great reply from an overpaid Alberta oil worker. Hows your $37 per Barrel of oil treating you now?

You only have lower standards of living if you don't get the education to keep you employed in a high paying job to offset the higher cost of living. I became a welder to make $100.00/hr so I don't have to worry about the way I live. I'd love to live in the USA and make less money and get things dirt cheap but I'm too busy working right now to worry about moving. Besides most have you have been spoilt by the gas prices down there, seeing how I was paying $1.40 per liter or $5.54 per gallon for 8 months when the prices went up and I said I might have to get a gasser when it hit $3.00 per liter, but I guess I have to say is we all got something bad to say about someone we don't know. Don't want to piss people off here but this is a great site where you can say most whatever you want and learn a lot more about your truck than half the mechanics working on it

I don't recall him saying he worked in the oil patch.....

He has a welding truck. Pretty good chance he's oilpatch. And what does that matter. We're not over paid in the patch, we're just the people willing to do the work. Last fall I was out of the house over 300+ hours a month driving and working in the middle of no where. I would drive 13 hours in a day for a day of work and drive home all that in -40*C weather.

Anyways I hope GM just pulls chapter 11 and clean house. Once they come out of the rubble they will be a great company again