Hi Folks:

I went to an OilGuard bypass and Delvac at about 43K miles, and since then, my copper numbers have been through the roof. I just don't get it!

I'm set to drop the oil this weekend, and sent the oil analysis in (came with the oil from AVLube), and this trend is just not going away.

At the moment, I again regretting getting away from dropping Delo every 3500 miles. I ain't saving any money, and I ain't sleeping any better! Can you guys who know more about this than I do take a look at this? Frankly, I'm thinking of yanking this OilGuard, selling the Delvac, and going to Costco to buy two cases of Delo!

Somebody PLEASE help me make sense of this. What the hell is going on?????

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/images/oil_analysis_11_08.gif

Wow I would drop the OilGuard for this fill. There are 4 different here samples and the bottom was without the oil gaurd? There is no reason you should be having to drop the oil 3500 there is a problem if that is what you have to do to get a good UOA, and you wouldn't be addressing it by doing so.

I'm literally miffed at your elevated Cu number. IF the Delvac 1 was cleaning oxidation of your soft metals (Pb, Cu) it could cause a "false" spike in wear metal readings. Thing is, your Pb is still normal. Cu is known to be high at first due to the oil cooler, but it trends down over time. Yours went down, and then spiked back up...weird.

By the way, if you get rid of your Oil Guard shoot me a PM and I'll buy your replacement elements from you if your price is right :cool:

By the way, why don't you post this UOA on Bob is the Oil Guy in the UOA-Diesel Engine Section? There are some serious oil heads over there that might be able to offer some suggestions.

when i used synthetic delvac, for the first few oil changes if i pulled the dipstick out and held it in the sun i could see what looked like very fine copper flakes in the oil drifting down the dipstick and that was with approx 50k on the engine. i ran the engine for another 70+k and never had a problem with it. the engine mfg stated that the oil could be cleaning the engine out. the oil sample results showed no abnormal wear ect. it did clean up after a few oil changes. a little metal goes a long way.

I agree that you have an issue, but the last thing to do is panic. Approach this with a calm, steady philosophy and you'll get to the root problem. I seriously doubt the Devlac 1 is to blame, nor the OG filter, however you clearly still have an issue with Cu. I should make sure to ask; are you using ANY kind of oil or fuel additive? If so, speak up so we can consider it as well.

I would NOT start changing things in a "shotgun" approach; i.e. - don't change more than one thing at a time. Develop a strategy for trial, and give each change an opportunity to settle in before you move on to the next one.

I would start by changing oil brand and grade; it's the easiest to do and the easiest to track. If you want Delo in 15w-40, try the new LE as it has been showing excellent UOAs. Start with this. In no way to I believe the Delvac is at fault, but at some point you have to start the process of elimination, and the oil is the easiest thing to change. Make sure to do consistent UOAs and consistent OCI's. Change oil every 5k miles and your filter, too. Do not deviate from this - you need consistiency to control the variables. The first few UOA's might even get worse because of the chemistry change, but that is just a cautionary warning, and not an extra bit to make you panic. After the UOAs' have some consistent pattern, you can then judge the Cu reading again.

If that does not help settle the Cu, then try eliminating the OG filter. Same approach; consistent UOA's.

BTW, changing oil at 3.5k miles or so is not a bad thing if you want to flush some stuff out, but it doesn't change the rate at which Cu is shed overall. If you were to look at a few UOA's at 3.5k miles, the reading of ppm would be smaller, but that is because the accumlation is less over a given exposure period. If you run the UOA's out to 5k miles, the Cu will probably read a bit higher. But the rate at which it is shedding is likely about the same.

If you eliminate all the reasonable items that are easy to change (oil, oil filter, etc) then it's time to look at other, more expensive causes.

We all know the oil cooler is often the cause of elevated Cu reading when the engines are newer. But eventually the Cu shed rate slows down on a Dmax and settles out nicely. Your Cu is still shedding. So wherever the Cu is originating from, you might be able to pinpoint it. If the cooler is still shedding, it's at least a bit more accessible on the outside of the engine, rather than the other items. The turbo, as well, might be shedding some bearing material. On the upside, these are at least external and easier to get at. Worse-case scenario is a bad bearing deep inside the engine somewhere.

If you're still under warranty (I presume you are) then share this info with your dealer service department. If you can show continued reason for concern, you might get some consideration from them if there is a catastrophic failure shortly after the warranty were to expire. Keep all reciepts for oil purchases and oil analysis.

Try the controlled approach, and keep us posted please.

When I had high Cu (only in the 100s) I dropped the oil refilled it without changing the filters. Then changed everything to "flush out" all the Cu. I don't know if this it really worth while, but I didn't want any residual Cu left for my next UOA.

Only thing I can think of is the thread sealant used on all the fittings on the OilGuard??????

Otherwise, I'm stumped.

I think I'm going to remove the Oil Guard completely, change the oil and filters, using Delvac, and then check again in 2500 miles and see if my copper readings return to normal.

I've heard there can be some issues with swapping back and forth between dino and syn, but I was thinking to drop the old oil and remove the OilGuard, re-fill with dino, drive it 20 miles or so, then drain and change to Delvac and swap out the full-flow.

Thoughts on this?

My hope is that I do this, check again in 2500 miles, find normal copper, and identify the issue as the OilGuard/thread sealant.

If copper is still high, I'm thinking SOL at that point .....

Should I swap in dino for 25 miles?

Hi Folks:

Well, today I pulled the OilGuard system from my truck, and changed the full-flow filter (went with the Amsoil) and oil (Delvac again, but this time the new ESP).

I'm gonna run her 2500 miles and send in the oil, and see what we got. I'm expecting some residual copper from the dregs of the last batch, but with any luck, copper will be way down and I can attribute it to the OilGuard and/or thread sealant. I don't even wanna think about what another high copper reading could mean!

Wish me luck, and I'll report back in 2500 miles or so.

rb

Additive chemistry changes can indeed bring softer metals Cu into solution (due to metal surface interaction with a new oil chemistry). GM handpicked Mobil Delvac (15W-40 and 5W-40) oil for their dealer oil program, so I doubt that the oil is the problem.

Campfire Rick - you're on the right path. Change one thing at a time, and make sure to give each item changed an opportunity to settle in.

Keep us posted, please.

Hi Folks:

Well, today I pulled the OilGuard system from my truck, and changed the full-flow filter (went with the Amsoil) and oil (Delvac again, but this time the new ESP).

I'm gonna run her 2500 miles and send in the oil, and see what we got. I'm expecting some residual copper from the dregs of the last batch, but with any luck, copper will be way down and I can attribute it to the OilGuard and/or thread sealant. I don't even wanna think about what another high copper reading could mean!

Wish me luck, and I'll report back in 2500 miles or so.

rb


Any update?


Bigfeet

Hoping the hear how your proof of concept testing worked out.