Any negatives to putting a duraflite in my truck? How easy are they to tune? thanks

Kelly

i would also like to know. can you daily drive still with them? can you pull? i know you can race with them. what power levels do you see them behind a dmax mostly. how must more would it be then a built alli?

some of the Cummins guys would rather have an Allison for pulling

so say from 900hp down a Allison will be fine. for all around use

I would think in a drag racing stand point the duraflite would be quicker than an ally from the way the two shift differently shift. The ally is a tough unit and like Tomac said I would think if your a puller than stick with it. If you have big power and do both than the question would be which one is more reliable.

why do you think that is? i'm being serious.

some of the Cummins guys would rather have an Allison for pulling

Maybe from the gear ratios??

Here's the ratios of a dodge 47re and 48re
1st: 2.45
2nd: 1.45
3rd: 1.00
4th: 0.69

Compared to the Allison
1st: 3.10
2nd: 1.81
3rd: 1.41
4th: 1.00
5th: 0.71

The Allison has a deeper 1st gear and deeper 2nd gear that allows us to lock the converter sooner on the track (less than 25' after taking off). The Allison also has better gear spacing with the extra gear. So to make up for the larger spacing between gears the competitive dodge auto pullers have to run 4.88 or 5.13 diff gears. The deeper diff gears help lessen the rpm drop between gears which keeps the Cummins in the power band that is shifted much higher up in the rpm range than it was stock because they're usually running a bigger cam and a bigger turbo (bushed down) compared to us. Also we can run a more street friendly 3.73 or 4.10 diff gear with 33" or 35" tires.

Here's the ratios of a dodge 47re and 48re
1st: 2.45
2nd: 1.45
3rd: 1.00
4th: 0.69

Compared to the Allison
1st: 3.10
2nd: 1.81
3rd: 1.41
4th: 1.00
5th: 0.71




Well don't some of the dmax sled pullers start out in 2nd anyway? It would seem to me that the Duraflite would work good for those guys.....

awesome info on both trans. guess i will just stick with the good ol Allison. not really into racing much anyways

We have one sitting in the shop waiting to go into a truck. It'll be a drag truck though and no plans for pulling a sled.

Won't know until early spring how it works.

Rob do you guys have times on the truck that gets the tranny to compare or is it a new setup from the get go? Just courious on how much quicker one could go with it.

No Steve, this one(white truck) is going together from the ground up with the dodge tranny from the start. The other truck(red truck) will have close to the same build, but with an Allison behind it. Most likely be detuned for a bit to see how much the Allison will take and then HP brought up until we start breaking trannys. Will be a good test bed. Both trucks will have parts breaking power, should be an interesting racing season.

Subman is the driving force. Both engines are done and the trucks go together starting next week with racing them down the track in February.

... Both engines are done and the trucks go together starting next week with racing them down the track in February.

February! :eek: You guys are lucky to be able to do that. We are pushing snow around for many months yet. :(

Get that Red truck going Rob.. i wanna see it go :)

I'd certainly be interested in seeing someone do an unbiased test.

I read the posts from the sponsored trucks running Dodge transmissions, and none of them ever fail.

But I go to the races and watch an attrition rate of 50%. Not sure if I've ever seen one do 5 passes in the 10 second or quicker range at an event and survive. Our local Dodge racer (Tim) retired due to the expense of failed Dodge transmissions.

Mike L just put some new goodies into Casper's transmission for testing. We are ramping up the HP by putting on PPE Twin Turbos on the truck and adding some fuel using 2 stroker CP3 pumps. We were at 800rwhp before, now it should be higher. So far we haven't lost an Allison yet in Casper, and often do 10 or more passes when given a chance with no problems. I believe Casper is the only ProStreet diesel pickup that hasn't lost a race due to a trans failure. Knock on wood.

I think our best course is to continue developing the Allison, as I believe it's a mechanically stronger transmission when tuned correctly.

But you know me. I will run what's fast regardless of the name on the box.

I'd certainly be interested in seeing someone do an unbiased test.

I read the posts from the sponsored trucks running Dodge transmissions, and none of them ever fail.

But I go to the races and watch an attrition rate of 50%. Not sure if I've ever seen one do 5 passes in the 10 second or quicker range at an event and survive. Our local Dodge racer (Tim) retired due to the expense of failed Dodge transmissions.

Mike L just put some new goodies into Casper's transmission for testing. We are ramping up the HP by putting on PPE Twin Turbos on the truck and adding some fuel using 2 stroker CP3 pumps. We were at 800rwhp before, now it should be higher. So far we haven't lost an Allison yet in Casper, and often do 10 or more passes when given a chance with no problems. I believe Casper is the only ProStreet diesel pickup that hasn't lost a race due to a trans failure. Knock on wood.

I think our best course is to continue developing the Allison, as I believe it's a mechanically stronger transmission when tuned correctly.

But you know me. I will run what's fast regardless of the name on the box.
PPE twin turbos? elaborate

:secret: but big , good to see you back pat .PPE twin turbos? elaborate

Wouldn't it be better to put in a modified ZF-6 in a upper class puller? Of course it would not make a great drag truck, but I would think it would be better than a Dodge tranny for pulling outside of the Allision and it is still considered OEM.

Dix

Wouldn't it be better to put in a modified ZF-6 in a upper class puller? Of course it would not make a great drag truck, but I would think it would be better than a Dodge tranny for pulling outside of the Allision and it is still considered OEM.

Dix

The ZF-6 is haveing a time of handling the big power trucks, just ask Johnboy and there is also a guy from danville's shop I cant recall his name

Here's the ratios of a dodge 47re and 48re
1st: 2.45
2nd: 1.45
3rd: 1.00
4th: 0.69

Compared to the Allison
1st: 3.10
2nd: 1.81
3rd: 1.41
4th: 1.00
5th: 0.71

The Allison has a deeper 1st gear and deeper 2nd gear that allows us to lock the converter sooner on the track (less than 25' after taking off). The Allison also has better gear spacing with the extra gear. So to make up for the larger spacing between gears the competitive dodge auto pullers have to run 4.88 or 5.13 diff gears. The deeper diff gears help lessen the rpm drop between gears which keeps the Cummins in the power band that is shifted much higher up in the rpm range than it was stock because they're usually running a bigger cam and a bigger turbo (bushed down) compared to us. Also we can run a more street friendly 3.73 or 4.10 diff gear with 33" or 35" tires.

Mike, any thoughts on shift quality/dwell? It always "seems" to me that the Ally spends less time dawdling between gears then the dodges. Could be an audible persception based on the Dmax motor tone vs the Cummins; I've never been around a Dmax/48RE or Cummins/Ally.

The ZF-6 is haveing a time of handling the big power trucks, just ask Johnboy and there is also a guy from danville's shop I cant recall his name

You know his name, you just can't spell it!:p: That's why he goes by John-John.:D

Yeah, the ZF-6 has been breaking in the 2.8 trucks now but hopefully changing gear ratios will help for next year so they can stay in the more desired gear/range.

PPE twin turbos? elaborate

I will be picking up the truck this week, and will do a review on the system.

The twin set up is sweet looking . :thumb:

You know his name, you just can't spell it!:p: That's why he goes by John-John.:D

Yeah, the ZF-6 has been breaking in the 2.8 trucks now but hopefully changing gear ratios will help for next year so they can stay in the more desired gear/range.

The biggest drawback is a single gear. The auto's allow puller's to start in a lower gear, shift up, and even shift back down at the end to keep the engine in a better powerband.

Many say the auto's draw more HP to turn, but I feel they get the HP to the ground more efficiently over a broader RPM and MPH range.

Back in the days before upgrades and locking converters, sticks were the way to go for power transfer and reliability, but I think that's changing thanks to beefier autos offered from the factory....

My .02;)

Back to the original subject. How does a Duraflite shift? Is it clutch to clutch for all gears like the ally, or more toward the old 4L80E style of shifting gears?

my understanding is that the duraflite can shift faster mechanically than an Allison and is far easier to control electronically. I think it's internal function is different than that of the Allison but the names of the two different types has escaped me at the moment.

Back to the original subject. How does a Duraflite shift? Is it clutch to clutch for all gears like the ally, or more toward the old 4L80E style of shifting gears?


Allison is "clutch to clutch". Duraflite is "clutch on clutch".

The twin set up is sweet looking . :thumb:
THERES PICS? WHERE?

THERES PICS? WHERE?

No pic's Johnny has just been in the Rats nest looking around lol

the 48re is nothing like an allison. Well ok, they both need ATF to work, but thats about it.

ben

Where can you find this mysterious Duraflite transmission? I've searched everywhere and can't get any info on it. Anybody care to share more info?

Where can you find this mysterious Duraflite transmission? I've searched everywhere and can't get any info on it. Anybody care to share more info?

I sell them or you can call Suncoast direct.

I sell them or you can call Suncoast direct.


Mike what are your thoughts on changing from the Allison to the Duraflite.

I sell them or you can call Suncoast direct.


Whats your thoughts on running a Duraflite in a dmax pulling truck?

I am still opposed to running a Dodge trans in a GM. Just doesn't set well with me. I am putting a lot of faith in the new planet that just came out which has been one of the big problems with the Alli.
As far as drag racing, The Duraflite will shift quicker, weigh less, have better gear ratios and not have to have defuel to keep it alive. It will take 3 tenths of a second off your times.
As far as sled pulling, I have to agree with Tomac. I think the gear ratios are better in the Alli and if this new planet does what we are hoping for, it will be even better.

Sorry for being confused here. So is the Duraflite just a modified 47RE or 48RE trans? I thought it to be some kind of racing specific trans and not just a modified production unit.

Sorry for being confused here. So is the Duraflite just a modified 47RE or 48RE trans? I thought it to be some kind of racing specific trans and not just a modified production unit.

Dodge 48RE with electonic valve body.

Sorry for being confused here. So is the Duraflite just a modified 47RE or 48RE trans? I thought it to be some kind of racing specific trans and not just a modified production unit.

YUP, straight up modded dodge trans put behind the Dmax.

I am still opposed to running a Dodge trans in a GM. Just doesn't set well with me. I am putting a lot of faith in the new planet that just came out which has been one of the big problems with the Alli.
As far as drag racing, The Duraflite will shift quicker, weigh less, have better gear ratios and not have to have defuel to keep it alive. It will take 3 tenths of a second off your times.
As far as sled pulling, I have to agree with Tomac. I think the gear ratios are better in the Alli and if this new planet does what we are hoping for, it will be even better.

I'd say there are no drawbacks with a DuraFlite in a high powered daily driver.

Mike, I agreed with your thoughts on installing a DODGE tranny in a GM... until destroying the first several dozen allisons. While you may have better information than me;), I would not guarantee the 3 tenths of a second reduction in the quarter mile with the conversion to the 47re DuraFlite (you may offer the 48RE conversion... I can not speak to that as I did not know they were available...).

What I can offer is this: my DuraFlite has made 10+ 9.xx second passes (1/4 mile), 16+ 6.xx second passes and 5 6.0x second 1/8th mile passes in 2008 - including a personal best 6.003 @ 115+ mph 1/8th mile pass after driving to and from the track (for clarification read this as... tranny & converter were never touched... no freshening up... not even fluid changed, etc.). The old ally ran a best 60' of 1.37 (with 1st gear launch...) while the DuraFlite went 1.32. While I am not sure who wins this argument, the DuraFlite made 10+ passes in 2008 with 1.3x second 60' times. We were not fortunate enough for the ally to live through multiple 1.3x second 60' times - although there may be better info from others:D.

I can not speak to the pulling application. However, the shifts are totally programmable - up, down and lockup. While I live in the sticks... I can and do drive my truck anywhere.

Good luck with whatever build you chose.

Explain to me why some companys offer a conversion to put an Ally in a Dodge but some D-Max guys are running what I was under the impression was a POS trans :confused:. I've talked to guys that had Dodges with built 48re's and traded into a D-Max and they felt a stock Ally was better durability wise.
Is the 48re used simply because it's faster shifting?

Explain to me why some companys offer a conversion to put an Ally in a Dodge but some D-Max guys are running what I was under the impression was a POS trans :confused:. I've talked to guys that had Dodges with built 48re's and traded into a D-Max and they felt a stock Ally was better durability wise.
Is the 48re used simply because it's faster shifting?

I can't speak for other D-Max guys... but I have broken more ally's than most...(read this any way you want). The 47re holds the power. I am sure the ally will get there with Mike L and SunCoast working around the clock. Even cooler... I can put an ally back in my truck in 45 minutes.

It's going to be interesting, we have a Duraflite, ATS Extreme with billet shafts and I just bought a truck with a new Suncoast stage 5 which if we don't sell the truck complete, we'll haul out and keep it. It has a bad TC according to Rob who raced it today in Sacramento. Lots of options, not sure we'll have the time or controls to do and valid scientific testing between them, we'll try and do the best we can with what we have. I'm with Pat, we'll run what works, I'm pretty excited about the white truck, it being built as a full meal deal, and hopefully can give some of the other full framed prostock trucks a decent race, we'll see. Nick, the red one will be built first.;) I'm not sure Nathan or Rob will let me drive either one of them:D.

How would one hold up to 1000rwhp+ sledpulling? How about the T/C? I know a guy that is having T/C issues with his Ally at the 1000+ level. Been through 4 this fall alone.


I can't speak for other D-Max guys... but I have broken more ally's than most...(read this any way you want). The 47re holds the power. I am sure the ally will get there with Mike L and SunCoast working around the clock. Even cooler... I can put an ally back in my truck in 45 minutes.

How would one hold up to 1000rwhp+ sledpulling? How about the T/C? I know a guy that is having T/C issues with his Ally at the 1000+ level. Been through 4 this fall alone.

I don't know about pulling the sled. Spooling a large charger with a tight converter can be trouple. Converters generally did not create a problem for us with the ally.

Good luck.

I'd say there are no drawbacks with a DuraFlite in a high powered daily driver.

Mike, I agreed with your thoughts on installing a DODGE tranny in a GM... until destroying the first several dozen allisons. While you may have better information than me;), I would not guarantee the 3 tenths of a second reduction in the quarter mile with the conversion to the 47re DuraFlite (you may offer the 48RE conversion... I can not speak to that as I did not know they were available...).

What I can offer is this: my DuraFlite has made 10+ 9.xx second passes (1/4 mile), 16+ 6.xx second passes and 5 6.0x second 1/8th mile passes in 2008 - including a personal best 6.003 @ 115+ mph 1/8th mile pass after driving to and from the track (for clarification read this as... tranny & converter were never touched... no freshening up... not even fluid changed, etc.). The old ally ran a best 60' of 1.37 (with 1st gear launch...) while the DuraFlite went 1.32. While I am not sure who wins this argument, the DuraFlite made 10+ passes in 2008 with 1.3x second 60' times. We were not fortunate enough for the ally to live through multiple 1.3x second 60' times - although there may be better info from others:D.

I can not speak to the pulling application. However, the shifts are totally programmable - up, down and lockup. While I live in the sticks... I can and do drive my truck anywhere.

Good luck with whatever build you chose.

Thank you for posting real world facts and experience.

I'd say there are no drawbacks with a DuraFlite in a high powered daily driver.

Mike, I agreed with your thoughts on installing a DODGE tranny in a GM... until destroying the first several dozen allisons. While you may have better information than me;), I would not guarantee the 3 tenths of a second reduction in the quarter mile with the conversion to the 47re DuraFlite (you may offer the 48RE conversion... I can not speak to that as I did not know they were available...).

What I can offer is this: my DuraFlite has made 10+ 9.xx second passes (1/4 mile), 16+ 6.xx second passes and 5 6.0x second 1/8th mile passes in 2008 - including a personal best 6.003 @ 115+ mph 1/8th mile pass after driving to and from the track (for clarification read this as... tranny & converter were never touched... no freshening up... not even fluid changed, etc.). The old ally ran a best 60' of 1.37 (with 1st gear launch...) while the DuraFlite went 1.32. While I am not sure who wins this argument, the DuraFlite made 10+ passes in 2008 with 1.3x second 60' times. We were not fortunate enough for the ally to live through multiple 1.3x second 60' times - although there may be better info from others:D.

I can not speak to the pulling application. However, the shifts are totally programmable - up, down and lockup. While I live in the sticks... I can and do drive my truck anywhere.

Good luck with whatever build you chose.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

You ran 9's with an Allison?

You have seen several Dodges at the track retire from failed built transmissions?

You haven't always posted about problems?

Understand I'm a GM guy, I'm going to side with GM stuff until there is solid proof that it is crap. So far, I haven't seen it.

I might test a Dodge trans in our truck, but only after I'm 100% certain it can't be done with GM gear. I don't give up easy.

Wonder where the fine line is in ET on the Allison? Appears that at mid 10's they live well, 9's they don't. People that have tried to gain a couple .10's at this level know it's not easy. I know there are other "back ground" issues that come into play also.

As Ken said, we'll have two trucks somewhat close in HP, one running a dodge tranny, and one running an Allison. Nathan said there will be enough HP to break either if needed. Should be a busy 2009.

Wonder where the fine line is in ET on the Allison? Appears that at mid 10's they live well, 9's they don't. People that have tried to gain a couple .10's at this level know it's not easy. I know there are other "back ground" issues that come into play also.

As Ken said, we'll have two trucks somewhat close in HP, one running a dodge tranny, and one running an Allison. Nathan said there will be enough HP to break either if needed. Should be a busy 2009.

It will be an interesting year for the Alli running some new untested parts. Pat is running some new carbon fiber C3 clutches for testing purposes and the new planet kit. I will be testing some new single sided C3 clutches for SC in another high hp truck. There is more involved to helping the Alli live, but that is another story for another time.

It's winter time here Mike and have plenty of time for a alli story:eyecrazy:

What is it that is failing?

I see there are new clutches coming out, so I would assuming they are slipping and hopefully better clutches will last longer and/or not slip.

I also see a new planet/hub that came out so I am assuming again that is failing. My understanding though is that it won't necessarily prevent failure (unless it is stronger), but mainly that it will keep repairs less expensive. That being said, I would imagine the cause of the failure is what needs to be addressed (which I thought I read was a momentary tie-up) and I have a feeling due to the TCM that might not be as easy as it sounds.

Yes, No, Maybe.......

It's winter time here Mike and have plenty of time for a alli story:eyecrazy:

Yes, 9 degrees and colder than a well diggers ass here too with the 15mph wind chill, tell us an Alli story uncle Mike.:D

For most of you the Allison is going to be fine. You can run in the 10.8 range pretty much just fine with the Allison built, converter and the ECM and TCM tuning matched up properly. Once you step into the 10.50 and quicker range in a 6000 lb truck things begin to go south pretty quick. Now cut the weight down and it's going to be different, Orange Crush has run last season on the ATS Xtreme unit for almost the whole season without issue as long as we kept the defuel up during shifting but it doesn't weigh 6000 lbs either. The unit needed to be rebuilt, refreshed, overhaul or whatever term you want to use before the final race this season.

Now when you want to step it up and run hard time after time and run in the 9's day in and day out the Allison is going to need to improve a whole lot more than where it is today. The Duraflight was developed in Buck's truck for Buck (N2O DMAX). If you want answers about it he is the only one I would talk to about it and I think he is still the only one that has one running in a Duramax. Everyone else is just guessing about how it works in a Duramax.

And for the GM parts in the GM truck that's all well and good but last time I checked Allison is not part of GM anymore.

And for the GM parts in the GM truck that's all well and good but last time I checked Allison is not GM.

when buck's truck was built, allison was GM. :p: :D

ben

Yes, 9 degrees and colder than a well diggers ass here too with the 15mph wind chill, tell us an Alli story uncle Mike.:D

.....couldn't seem to cool off today in this 65 degree weather.:D

The Allison 1000 is built by GM Powertrain, as it has been for the past few years, right here in Maryland.

when buck's truck was built, allison was GM. :p: :D

ben

OK so it was back in the day then but it's not part of GM anymore. Point is the motor was Isuzu first now GM, Transmission was GM now it's not.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

You ran 9's with an Allison?

You have seen several Dodges at the track retire from failed built transmissions?

You haven't always posted about problems?

Understand I'm a GM guy, I'm going to side with GM stuff until there is solid proof that it is crap. So far, I haven't seen it.

I might test a Dodge trans in our truck, but only after I'm 100% certain it can't be done with GM gear. I don't give up easy.
never said he ran 9s with an ally.have seen very few east coast trucks running suncoast trannys have to stop from racing in the last 2-3 years.i told you before once the initial setup was done on the duraflight there have been no problems as verified by Buck.the gm suff isnt crap.that being said dont take this the wrong way but the ally hasnt been proven to last in the current situation.if anyone can get this ally to work and hold i am sure both Suncoast and Mike L can,but one couldnt wait and simply sit still for a year and let the rest catch up.not to long ago people were commenting that the 4l80e trans would hold the power but to my nowledge none have surfaced yet....

OK so it was back in the day then but it's not part of GM anymore. Point is the motor was Isuzu first now GM, Transmission was GM now it's not.


Gm still owns the atleast 2 allison plants, Like George said one is in Baltimore Md.

yea gm kept plant to make 1000's. with that much HP pushing that much weight, let alone big brick, your going to find the parts that where sufficient for intended purpose and HP that won't hold. how old are those powerglides and torqueflite designs, they did not come out with them last year.

Let's bring an old thread up......How are the duraflite's holding up in the trucks that are using them? Has anyone else installed one?

Well Buck blew his up recently...so I guess even the Duraflite isnt bulletproof...

Well Buck blew his up recently...so I guess even the Duraflite isnt bulletproof...
it did hold up for two seasons in the 10s and 9s. i think it is for the balls out race truck only. the maxd out team hasnt posted any problems with their duraflite from 10s going into the 9s at the track either.

it did hold up for two seasons in the 10s and 9s. i think it is for the balls out race truck only. the maxd out team hasnt posted any problems with their duraflite from 10s going into the 9s at the track either.


I thought I read somewere it held up for 1 season, then let go at the race at Suncoast open house.

I thought I read somewere it held up for 1 season, then let go at the race at Suncoast open house.
henry, i thought it was 2 seasons... but hey, 1 season with alot of consistant passes at that power level is fine too

I just removed our duraflite to change converters and look at the input shaft(Bucks failure) After 35+/- passes in the low 10's the shaft looks perfect, so it's getting bolted back up the the engine for more abuse.

I was told by Buck that his lasted a full season last year. I was there when his input shaft broke. Parts are parts and you can get a faulty one once and a while.

I'll stick with this combo at this power level. A lot less wrenching.

Glad to hear it Rob!

The DuraFlight has taken much more then any of the Allisons ever did. Buck's broke the inputshaft. Installed a new input shaft and it's back to racing again with more power than the Allison ever had in front of it. As Rob said parts are going to break when your running the power and times these two truck are ( 9.50 - 10.0). I have yet to see an Allison live for more than a few passes at these levels. Like was said before if your going to be at 10.8 and slower the Allison holds but you still need to refresh/rebuild it every so many passes. At the level these two truck run forget it, it just fails about every race weekend.

I am glad to hear the success with this setup from you guys, we all know that you guys are pushing them hard. I am looking forward to doing one of these later this summer myself for a customer. It is too bad that the Allison's can't handle this kinda power and abuse, never thought we would have to put dodge parts in a chevy to make it go faster????