in the new LMM if I deleted the cat and the dpf, can i run the Low-sulur diesel fuel instead of the ultra-low? would anyhting else have to be done to it, and would it harm anything?

injector seats and seals can be messed up. possibly the injector line pump internals as well. ULSD was put in place for emission control crap. to much sulfer was f'ing up the cats in some rigs and the DPF's were totally f'd during all the testings back in '00-'03 before the ULSD mandate came into play. get rid of the damn EPA and DEP and we'd be alot better off. hydroelec power, nuke power and alot of other stuff would be more prevelant and available

injector seats and seals can be messed up. possibly the injector line pump internals as well.

Huh???? From LSD?



ULSD was put in place for emission control crap. to much sulfer was f'ing up the cats in some rigs and the DPF's were totally f'd during all the testings back in '00-'03 before the ULSD mandate came into play. get rid of the damn EPA and DEP and we'd be alot better off. hydroelec power, nuke power and alot of other stuff would be more prevelant and available

I do, however, totally agree with you on this point.

in the new LMM if I deleted the cat and the dpf, can i run the Low-sulur diesel fuel instead of the ultra-low? would anyhting else have to be done to it, and would it harm anything?


I didn't realize there is still some LSD out there on the market.

I'd get it if I could. Nothing but ULSD here. I'm currently running a little 2-cycle motor oil to compensate.

injector seats and seals can be messed up.

Not really... It's actually the other way around. Some with "older" trucks have been reporting seal issues after running the ULSD in places such as the primer pump. And the CP3 in the LMM is the same as the one in the LBZ, which didn't 'require' ULSD. Given the choise, I'd run LSD in a heartbeat (actually if it was a choice I'd be running B100); ULSD is JUNK.

Once the exhaust emission devices are gone then you can run either fuel. But why???

most fuel is ULSD, even if labeled LSD. eventually all fuel will be ULSD. there would have to be small local refinery to get LSD, they have not added process equipment to make ULSD. congress allowed 75 cent per gallon surcharge for equipment to process ULSD, that is reason diesel is higher price. thank you EPA and Federal government.

in the new LMM if I deleted the cat and the dpf, can i run the Low-sulur diesel fuel instead of the ultra-low? would anyhting else have to be done to it, and would it harm anything?

If you did what you said, you would be better off running LSD!

the reason you cant run LSD in a vehicle with a DPF is that the material in the DPF is permanetly damaged to the point of plugging up solid due to the sulfer content, hince the new ULSD of <15 PPM sulfer content. LSD is closer to 500 PPM sulfer. and before all the emissions on diesels, diesel fuel had up to 5000 PPM sulfer. in '07 and up CAT highway engines, high sulfer fuel would also turn into sulferic acid and eat up some materials in the intake system due to an EGR system that is called Clean Gas Induction, it routes exhaust after the DPF instead of at manifold to reduce soot intake to engine.

the reason you cant run LSD in a vehicle with a DPF is that the material in the DPF is permanetly damaged to the point of plugging up solid due to the sulfer content, hince the new ULSD of <15 PPM sulfer content. LSD is closer to 500 PPM sulfer. and before all the emissions on diesels, diesel fuel had up to 5000 PPM sulfer. in '07 and up CAT highway engines, high sulfer fuel would also turn into sulferic acid and eat up some materials in the intake system due to an EGR system that is called Clean Gas Induction, it routes exhaust after the DPF instead of at manifold to reduce soot intake to engine.

so, from what i gather from what you say, if i dont have a dpf or a cat, thenm lsd should be ok?

Yes

Interesting info from FordTrucks.com Look for the post on page 1 by Frankenbiker.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/787435-i-want-to-run-my-08-f250-on-lsd.html

If this information can be validated it might be as simple as changing oil type in the engine.

Interesting! If you are referring to Post 9, we can check with our local experts on oil here. Arkapigdiesel and dnewton. Maybe they can chime in!

However, I think the CAT & DPF is not an issue, as the member stated he removed it.

Yes, post #9.

Overall, there are many subtle differences between the LSD and ULSD, however, the main issues are driven from emmisions-related "enhancements". I use that term in quotes because many don't see the emmisions stuff as an enhancement, but rather a hinderance. I personally don't like the stuff, and that's why I have a LBZ, but we don't have a choice when looking for a new truck.

The main question I am gleaning from this thread is this: is it OK to run LSD if the emissions stuff is removed?

Putting aside the legal issue (it is a federal violation to remove the DPF, CAT, etc for on-road use), then the other topics would be performance and relibility.

Performance wise, there is a very slight decrease in thermal engery per pound of ULSD compared to LSD. Not enough to worry about. We see a much greater degredation of power when we get winterized fuel (blending in #1 into the #2 at the refinery level).

Reliability wise, once the emisions stuff is gone, then it's a matter of keeping all the computer codes in check; there are plenty of products out there for that. The mechanical parts are not going to notice much of a change. The reduction in ULSD of sulphur and it's aromatics helps keep corrosive elements in check (hence the lower TBN needed in CJ-4 lubricants). If you choose to run LSD, make sure to use a CI-4+ oil for a greater TBN starting point, because the sulphuric acid production will be greater with LSD. Even if running a LSD fuel, I'd still advise running a quality fuel conditioner from a well known brand (Power Service, Stanadyne, Howes, etc) for the lubricity and cetane improvements (and flow characteristics in winter products).

Overall, I'd have to say that if performance is your goal, the change isn't going to be noticeable. If reliability is your goal, the gain you'll see will only be if you've had trouble with the emisions equipment in stock form. Many people have had little or no trouble with the LMM's. The 6.7ISBs from Dodge have been fairing far worse. The 6.4 P/S has issues that are fuel consumption related. Of the three brands, the LMM seems to have the least trouble with emisions stuff. (These are generalizations, obviously).

If you run LSD, the removal of the emisions stuff would be prudent, or you'll be into heavy costs in short order. However, I do not, nor can not, advise as such, because it's against the law for on road use. Further, it's there for a good reason. I want clean air for my kids, and grandkids, etc. If everyone did away with all emisions stuff on all vehicles because they didn't like the "risks", we'd be looking like some of the China cities, or worse. The polution would be terrible. Like it or not, the emisions stuff serves a very useful purpose.