Been driving my 05 with the additude on #4 or race all the time just wondering if extreme is ok for daily or if it will slip and fail the trans? I have about 2000 miles on my truck now on #4. Just curious when to much is just enough :grd:

My father drives his 04 with the LB7 daily with the HOT juice box.

Also when the slip says whatever number somtimes it has a % next to it others not whats the deal with that?

I had thought the Edge manual stated that level 4 was "ok", but not to run level 5 unless you have tranny mods. Since yours is brand new you might let it break in a bit before you romp on it.

I ride around in mine on Level 5 all the time... Sometiems I run on Level 3 for he hell of it...

I cna however LIMP IT at will.... If i am in 3rd gear or higher and PUNCH into it... BOOM.. LIMPED....

Level 3 Can ROMP all DAY!!!!

Be wary, without Tranny upgrades she doesn't like 4 and 5..

BIG

A 2005 has the LLY engine. Based on LLY dyno results posted on this web site, this engine produces approximate 500 ft lbs of torque at the rear wheels.

Edge, on their web site, says the Allison will slip at about 680 lb of rear wheel torque. Steve Cole of TTS, has posted several times saying the Allison will start to show excessive wear when the rear wheel torque starts to exceed 600 ft lbs. This is based on his tearing down several or more Allisons when testing new tunes. So, if you exceed 680 ft lbs at the rear wheels, is will fail real soon. If you exceed 600 lb, it will fail, but not as soon. As I recall , Steve estimated a life around 70,000 miles.

Here are the Edge Juice torque numbers for the LLY model:

Lvl1 100 lb (hp 30)
Lvl2 120 lb (hp 50)
Lvl3 170 lb (hp 70)
Lvl4 200 lb (hp 90)
Lvl5 240 lb (hp 120)

So, at Lvl 4, you are 500 lbs stock plus an added 200 lb from the Juice. This will put you around 700 lbs at the rear wheels. That exceeds the limits based on the above criteria.

Here are the numbers for the LB7:

The Allison limits are the same as in the LLY, shown above.

Per dyno results posted on this site, the stock LB7 produces about 440 ft lbs of torque at the rear wheels.

Edge Juice torque numbers for the LB7 model:

Lvl1 150 lb (hp 40)
Lvl2 180 lb (hp 60)
Lvl3 220 lb (hp 75)
Lvl 4 250 lb (hp 90)
Lvl 5 325 lb (hp 125)

Lvl 4 on a LB7 truck will produce around 690 ft lbs at the rear wheels (440 plus 250).

good info BH

level 3 is all I run, level 4 and 5 just smoke more........Seat of the pants says they are no better, at least with a stock tranny. Try running the "slip" option on the Attitude, with tow/haul button engaged. You will see a huge slip in level 5. 4 isn't quite as bad, and 3 seems to be the max with a stock tranny. Dunno how accurate the Attitude's slip function is..........but it seems to follow Kennedy's dyno results.

I was told by the guys at Edge that level 4 and 5 were definitely not recommended w/o tranny mods. It all coincides with the numbers from TTS. I run in level 1 (mileage) hoping to save some dough! But when I'm in stop and go traffic I'll bump up to 2 and maybe 3 but that's it for now. Once I use some of the life of my Alli, I will see dmaxallitech for some tranny upgrades and then play with 4 and 5!

Well looks like I'll be on level 3 for now -:t
I sure was lovin the power but don't wanna have to take her in for a rebuild and explain why :P

The slip function on the Attitude is for the torque converter slip. Once the torque converter is locked the slip goes to zero%. Anytime the torque converter is unlocked you'll get a slip number on the attitude. The attitude cannot monitor the internal allison clutch slippage.

Anything above level 3 on the edge the ally will start to complain if you are hitting the peddle heavy. Some trannys will take it longer than others. If you drive like granny on level 4 or 5 you probably won't do damage but then what is the point of level 4 or 5?

I've driven mine on all levels. Before I had the predator I drove with the attitude on level 3 most of the time. I occasionally drove it on 4 and 5 when I wanted to put someone in my rearview mirror or wanted to smoke screen them. I drive now with the predator 40hp tune and the edge on level 1 to see what kind of mileage I get. I do an occasional romp on level 5 but rarely. I'm getting 20mpg (comb. highway and city driving with stop and go traffic) when I go easy on the peddle and keep it at 65 or less on the highway. I recently changed the low boost fuel setting from 5 to 0 to see if that has any impact on ecomomy. Ok I've rambled enough.

Between 3 and 5 is a HUGE diff seat of pants. You can run the edge on 5 with a stock tranny, just make sure to let back as soon as it shifts into 4th/5th, otherwise you'll start slipping, the first 3 gears can take up to 900lbs tq, I believe. Thats what I did for the past few weeks, and no limp. But if you want to ensure you dont bust it, get the tranny done.

[QUOTE=lakingslayer]The slip function on the Attitude is for the torque converter slip. Once the torque converter is locked the slip goes to zero%. Anytime the torque converter is unlocked you'll get a slip number on the attitude. The attitude cannot monitor the internal allison clutch slippage.

[QUOTE]

How can TCC Slippage be monitored by the attitude display when the 3 hall effect sensors are counting teeth on the EXTERIOR of the transmission?

There is no sensor on or in the T/C at all!

The only slip you see on the attitude monitor is the difference in rotational speeds from the input shaft to the output shaft.

I believe this is a common misconception on what the attitude 'slip %' is actually displaying.

If the ISS/OSS are showing rotational differeces, that is showing as a % factor of slip.
Tell me how that relates to the convertor? If any of the clutches are slipping on apply that will show up as a % slip differential.... so you can't blame the convertor.

Therefore the % slip you see is in reality the difference in input shaft speed VS Output shaft speed.

So until the torque converter is locked the input shaft speed is different than the output shaft speed? The only reason I stated what I did is that I read it in another thread some time ago and nobody contradicted the statement. Please educate me further. By input shaft speed you mean the transmission side of the torque converter and output shaft you mean drive shaft right? I thought the slip reading could have been the crank shaft speed vs the tranny input shaft speed.

So until the torque converter is locked the input shaft speed is different than the output shaft speed? The only reason I stated what I did is that I read it in another thread some time ago and nobody contradicted the statement. Please educate me further. By input shaft speed you mean the transmission side of the torque converter and output shaft you mean drive shaft right? I thought the slip reading could have been the crank shaft speed vs the tranny input shaft speed.
Steve and I talked at length about the topic on here once.

Yes the sensors are looking at shaft speed differences.
There is no sensor on the T/C at all.
If you are seeing slip, it might be the convertor slipping, or it could be any number of C1-C5 Clutches slipping.

do these basic rules with the edge go the same with the 6 spdas with the allison, if the lower gears will hold more torque then would level 5 be better in a manual than the allison. sorry if im way off topic, dont really understand how theses trannies work

Juice, Here is where I got my info.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8377&highlight=edge+slip

I never said there were sensors on the TC. I was just answering the attitude slip question. As you said slippage can happen in both the TC and C-clutches internal to the ally. The Attitude does a calculation to get a TC slippage number.

Juice, Here is where I got my info.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8377&highlight=edge+slip

I never said there were sensors on the TC. I was just answering the attitude slip question. As you said slippage can happen in both the TC and C-clutches internal to the ally. The Attitude does a calculation to get a TC slippage number.
Understood.

I was only trying to illustrate a point... I wasn't trying to be a smarty pants.:D

The point i was trying to make was simply that the % Slip we see on the attitude is the total % of slip between the Input shaft and the output shaft.

Cutches Slipping or TC Slipping... could be one or both:)

Forgive me if I am a little confused now. I'm sorry to hijack this thread but I feel this needs some clarification. Does the Edge calculate transmission slippage as well as TC slippage or does it just calculate TC slippage. I'm just trying to learn and hopefully understand. From what I've read now either I'm missing something or I'm getting two different opinions on how the Attitude calculates the slip % number. Anyone have any info to help clear up my confusion?

do these basic rules with the edge go the same with the 6 spdas with the allison, if the lower gears will hold more torque then would level 5 be better in a manual than the allison. sorry if im way off topic, dont really understand how theses trannies work
According to the Edge/Attitude manual the Attitude does not supply information about speed (i.e. performance tests) or transmission related features (i.e. slippage) on manual transmissions.

I got an e-mail from Edge today. In case any of you are interested here is what they said on the attitude transmission slippage reading.

" Sorry it has taken a-while to respond, I have been waiting for a answer from the engineer. Basically we are monitoring the engine rpm and the transmission output speed. If we detect any slippage when the converter is locked up, the attitude will show a percentage of slip. "

ok so If you set the Additude to level 5 and set the transmission point to defuel on the 4-5 shift does that mean then you can drive it on level 5 all the time? I read earlier in the post that it can take those power leves in the first 3 gears. You can also adjust it to defuel on all shifts or on all locked shifts. If anyone such as Got Juice whom I know has a DTT trans :ro) ( I have one in my 02 cummins ram) and I know how good they are but my chevy is leased and I don't want to do a trans. Anyways whats the deal I know you have got tones of stuff done so u should know where stuff breaks ;) I found out the hard way with a 47re thats forsure.

Edge, on their web site, says the Allison will slip at about 680 lb of rear wheel torque. Steve Cole of TTS, has posted several times saying the Allison will start to show excessive wear when the rear wheel torque starts to exceed 600 ft lbs. This is based on his tearing down several or more Allisons when testing new tunes. So, if you exceed 680 ft lbs at the rear wheels, is will fail real soon. If you exceed 600 lb, it will fail, but not as soon. As I recall , Steve estimated a life around 70,000 miles.
So, one could expect only 70,000 miles out of the allison when running 680+ ft lbs of torque?

JLew

..... So, one could expect only 70,000 miles out of the allison when running 680+ ft lbs of torque?JLew

My inturpretation of Steve's comments are that you can expect a much shorter life out of the Allison when you exceed an additional 50 HP or 100ft/lbs on an LLY at the rear wheels. I believe the LLY has about 500 ft/lbs of torque at the rear wheels in stock configuration. Adding 100 ft/lbs at the rear wheels to the stock 500 ft/lbs brings you up to a max "safe" level of 600 ft/lbs. So, anything over 680 ft/lbs will seriously harm the Allison in much less than 70,000 miles.

Here is the thread with some of Diesel Tech's (Steve Cole) original comments.

http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24859

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From Note Number 9:

"One thing to remember with a LLY truck donot exceed 50 Hp or 100 ft/lb if you want the Allison to live a long life. Power settings above this will shorten the life by 10 fold if not put the transmission into limp mode nether of which is good for it."

From Note Number 15:

"I just answered his question as to what the limits are and I can backup what I say with the test data. To say you can run a 65Hp tune is fine if you've never done any testing but we have.

"when towing or that occasional 'Choke on This Smoke' stoplight action"

This is what he stated so I answered what I know to be true. If he plans on Towing and runs greater than 50 rwhp his transmission will die between 70,000 to 80,000 miles. This is what we've found in testing. I wish it would take more but it doesn't."

From Note Number 21:

"Like everything, the way you drive plays a big roll in how things will last. My statement are for running empty and light towing on a LLY equipped truck. On a LB7 equipped truck we change the number to 80 Hp or 160 Ft/lbs. The change is necessary because of the difference in power output stock between the two motors. The transmission has not changed between the two models when it comes to holding capacity, same internal parts except that the LLY transmission has one more solenoid that lower line pressure at idle only to help with cooling."

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Since I dont know much about this slippage stuff...if you see numbers changing in the slippage box is that good or bad? Basically, i've seen anywhere from 8% to 100% not sure if there is something wrong.