http://www.the**********.com/duramax/4-5lduramax.htm

Link doesn't work

Link doesn't work
Because it looks like a mod edited the address out... usual stuff here lately.

well its the diesel page i think..
its an article tell how the motor will be produced in upstate NY and more details


i cant even copy and paste the article....

It's actually a pretty old article, but here ya go-

The original GM press release is here. (http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=74&docid=37110)

GM TO INVEST $100 MILLION IN NEW YORK PLANT
FOR DIESEL ENGINE PRODUCTION


GM Media News Release
Announcing:
• All-new, 4.5-liter V-8 turbo-diesel added to production lineup
• Approximately 150 hourly jobs retained

TONAWANDA, N.Y. - General Motors Corp. will invest $100 million in its Tonawanda engine plant to produce an all-new, 4.5-liter V-8 Duramax high-output diesel engine for the Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra light-duty pickup trucks and the HUMMER H2. The engine fuel efficiency improves by 25 percent when compared with gasoline engines. Environmental benefits of the new engine include a 13-percent reduction in CO2 versus gasoline engines, and at least a 90-percent reduction in particulates and NOx when compared to diesel vehicles today.

The investment includes a 200,000-square-foot facility renovation, new machinery, equipment and special tooling to bring diesel engine technology to New York. In addition to the $100 million facility investment, GM will invest an additional $41 million for vendor tooling, containers and investments at other locations necessary to support the Tonawanda operations. Construction is slated to begin later this year and production of the 4.5-liter V-8 diesel engine is scheduled to begin in the fourth quarter of 2009. The project will retain about 150 hourly jobs.

"GM is transforming its product portfolio to reduce fuel consumption and emissions, and the 4.5-liter V-8 diesel is an integral part of that transformation, as well as a component of GM's strategy to diversify vehicle energy sources," said John Buttermore, GM Powertrain vice president of global manufacturing. "This will be one of the most efficient and technically- advanced diesel engines, providing a 25 percent improvement in fuel efficiency and 13 percent reduction in CO2 emissions over gasoline engines in this segment - and it does all that while still providing the performance attributes required by customers in the areas of towing and hauling loads."

The investment announced today is in addition to a $300 million investment GM announced in January for production of an all-new, DOHC V-8 engine to power GM's luxury cars and SUVs. Production of that engine also begins in 2009.
"GM's investment in the Tonawanda plant, totaling $1.6 billion in the last 10 years, is a significant vote of confidence in our employees and UAW Local 774, who have demonstrated their commitment and dedication to benchmark performance that is contributing to the company's turnaround," Buttermore said.

The GM Powertrain Tonawanda plant management and UAW Local 774 leadership successfully negotiated a competitive operating agreement that improves operational effectiveness. The agreement also addresses processes and methods that improve production quality, efficiency and safety of the operations.

Buttermore also thanked New York's leaders on the federal, state, county and local levels, including New York Governor Eliot Spitzer, Erie County Executive Joel Giambra and Tonawanda Supervisor Ron Moline, for providing the business case to support GM's investments in New York.

"General Motors has been part of the fabric of the Western New York economy for almost 70 years," said Governor Spitzer. "The company's expanded investment in its Tonawanda plant is a testament to the area's highly skilled, highly motivated workforce and the role that manufacturing will continue to play in the revival of Upstate New York."

The 4.5-liter V-8 Duramax high-output diesel engine will be GM's first engine to use a selective catalytic reduction NOx after-treatment system with a diesel particulate filter to help achieve the Tier 2 Bin 5 and LEV 2 emissions standards. It will be compliant in all 50 states, making it one of the cleanest diesels ever produced. It is expected to deliver class-leading power and torque, and fulfill multiple vehicle applications with ratings in excess of 310 horsepower and 520 lb.-ft. of torque.

GM Powertrain's Tonawanda engine plant opened in 1938 and has produced nearly 68 million engines. The plant covers 3.1 million square feet and employs 1,565 hourly and 260 salaried employees, with an annual payroll of $200 million. Currently, the Tonawanda engine plant builds the 2.2-liter Ecotec engine that powers the Chevrolet Cobalt and HHR; the Inline 4- and 5-cylinder engines that power the Chevrolet Colorado and GMC Canyon mid-size pickups and the HUMMER H3 SUV; the 3.5- and 3.9-liter high value V-6 engines for the Pontiac G6 and the Chevrolet Malibu and Impala; and the 8.1-liter big block V-8 engine that powers Chevrolet Kodiak and GMC TopKick medium-duty trucks - as well as marine and industrial applications.

General Motors Corp. (NYSE: GM), the world's largest automaker, has been the annual global industry sales leader for 76 years. Founded in 1908, GM today employs about 280,000 people around the world. With global headquarters in Detroit, GM manufactures its cars and trucks in 33 countries. In 2006, nearly 9.1 million GM cars and trucks were sold globally under the following brands: Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, GM Daewoo, Holden, HUMMER, Opel, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn and Vauxhall. GM's OnStar subsidiary is the industry leader in vehicle safety, security and information services. More information on GM can be found at www.gm.com.

With the way things are going I'm betting the 4.5L gets canceled. GM stock is at nearly 60 year low and the company is hurting to survive. It's not a good time to be in the auto industry. :(

They will not back out of this engine. They have to push forward, for fear of losing even more market share to Ford and Toyota. Ford is obviously the truck leader, and they are coming out with a small diesel. If GM fails to, that will give Toyota another way to sneak in and take sales away from them. I am in no way advocating Ford being the best truck builder, just sales numbers are higher than GM in trucks.

i dont think they will back out...
i feel us auto makers will try to put diesel in everything... with the better mpg Pound for pound... only time can tell. but i can tell you this if the 4.5 isent wayy over priced.. i will be upgrading from m 5.3..

GM is near bankruptcy and in desperation are trying to merge with Chrysler.

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/oct2008/db20081011_136156.htm?campaign_id=yhoo

JD Powers says they expect a global automobile market collapse in 2009.

http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSTRE49863N20081009?feedType=RSS&feedName=businessNews&rpc=23&sp=true

This is an expensive engine going into a dead truck market, there is no way they will ever get back the investment. An prudent CEO looking at the abyss will kill anything to preserve cash.

What remaining cash is being pumped into the Volt and there isn't much cash left, no credit lines to draw on and a bleed - out/insolvency date in mid 2009.

Best hope for a GM survival is a Government bailout or Government finance of a merger with Chrysler.

No 4.5 I suspect and no re-designs of the Silverado in the foreseeable future.

Grandaddy?
What's a Chevy?

They will not back out of this engine. They have to push forward, for fear of losing even more market share to Ford and Toyota. Ford is obviously the truck leader, and they are coming out with a small diesel. If GM fails to, that will give Toyota another way to sneak in and take sales away from them. I am in no way advocating Ford being the best truck builder, just sales numbers are higher than GM in trucks.
Actually, when yo combine Chevy and GMC, sales numbers are higher than Ford. There is just that one stinkin' technicality...

They will not back out of this engine. They have to push forward, for fear of losing even more market share to Ford and Toyota. Ford is obviously the truck leader, and they are coming out with a small diesel. If GM fails to, that will give Toyota another way to sneak in and take sales away from them. I am in no way advocating Ford being the best truck builder, just sales numbers are higher than GM in trucks.


I agree, the 4.5 will go forward. It's one little gem that may help them through whatever rebound occurs.

I will be in line to buy one of these jems after they hit the showroom floor

The big three along with Toyota, Honda and all the others need to stand together and tell the EPA to pound sand, because they are not going to adhere to their stupid emissions crap any longer, then the diesels would have a lot more appeal than gas autos. If they would all stick together what could be done?

Oh and they probably have already started production on the 4.5

The big three along with Toyota, Honda and all the others need to stand together and tell the EPA to pound sand, because they are not going to adhere to their stupid emissions crap any longer, then the diesels would have a lot more appeal than gas autos. If they would all stick together what could be done?

Oh and they probably have already started production on the 4.5

I agree! Who holds the EPA accountable? It is true that the emission improvements over the years has been a positive, but things have gone a little overboard as far as what you get for the investment. Turn back the clock to 2006 levels and allow the engine manufactures tune more for mileage than emissions.

Its all about the $$ and who has it to lobby.
There are countless BS laws passed. does anyone here remember when R12 was banned for autos? the law said you had to fix a leak before filling it or convert to 134. after 134 wan made the standard and R12 production stopped the law was repealed because they figured 12 wasnt causing the impact they originally thought.
BS Bs the makers of 134 wanted their new and improved freon being used. It is crap. doesnt cool as good as 12 did and creates more heat load under the hood.

I agree! Who holds the EPA accountable? It is true that the emission improvements over the years has been a positive, but things have gone a little overboard as far as what you get for the investment. Turn back the clock to 2006 levels and allow the engine manufactures tune more for mileage than emissions.

It's gotten to the point where fuel coming out of the tailpipe has to be cleaner than the air going into the intake. New EPA regs have cost us millions of gallons of fuel because it makes engines less efficient. We could have all kind of cool diesel vehicles over here that get 30-50% better fuel mileage than a similar gas vehicle, if not for the EPA.

I have a 2007 Tundra and it is an AWESOME Gasser for towing. I drove the new Silverado 1500 and I think handling and interior is superior to the Tundra. The gas engines cannot hold a candle to the Tundra 5.7L. (Not looking to start a flamewar about Toyota vs. domestic blah blah but it is an awesome motor) I tow about 8000lbs and the Tundra gets about 10-11mpg, and tows very well. Highway, I get 20mpg without towing at 75mph. That said, I realize the diesel will be better for towing. I have been toying with trying to get a steal on the 6.6L Duramax. As this is a daily driver, I would rather have the refinement of the 1500. Thus I think I am like everyone else, waiting for the 4.5L, which looks like it will be just awesome!

I have a 2007 Tundra and it is an AWESOME Gasser for towing. I drove the new Silverado 1500 and I think handling and interior is superior to the Tundra. The gas engines cannot hold a candle to the Tundra 5.7L. (Not looking to start a flamewar about Toyota vs. domestic blah blah but it is an awesome motor) I tow about 8000lbs and the Tundra gets about 10-11mpg, and tows very well. Highway, I get 20mpg without towing at 75mph. That said, I realize the diesel will be better for towing. I have been toying with trying to get a steal on the 6.6L Duramax. As this is a daily driver, I would rather have the refinement of the 1500. Thus I think I am like everyone else, waiting for the 4.5L, which looks like it will be just awesome!

I want to ride in your tundra, because it would be the 1st that I've ever been in that gets 20mpg. (Got 4 buddies that get 13-15 on a good day with a tailwind).

And yes I am too waiting on the 4.5 to come out.

I have a 2007 Tundra and it is an AWESOME Gasser for towing. I drove the new Silverado 1500 and I think handling and interior is superior to the Tundra. The gas engines cannot hold a candle to the Tundra 5.7L. (Not looking to start a flamewar about Toyota vs. domestic blah blah but it is an awesome motor) I tow about 8000lbs and the Tundra gets about 10-11mpg, and tows very well. Highway, I get 20mpg without towing at 75mph. That said, I realize the diesel will be better for towing. I have been toying with trying to get a steal on the 6.6L Duramax. As this is a daily driver, I would rather have the refinement of the 1500. Thus I think I am like everyone else, waiting for the 4.5L, which looks like it will be just awesome!

Not looking to start a flamewar... this vs that....yada, yada, yada... but the tundra cracks me up :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zShwG9l1F0Q&feature=related

That is an AWESOME vid. The GM and the Furd.... handed toyota its ass.....

Toyota dropped the plans to develop / market a diesel truck for the pickup market. that should give GM a less competitive market to work with.

I agree! Who holds the EPA accountable? It is true that the emission improvements over the years has been a positive, but things have gone a little overboard as far as what you get for the investment. Turn back the clock to 2006 levels and allow the engine manufactures tune more for mileage than emissions.

Could not have been said any better. X1000


BTW Toyota sucks! Check the vid:D

Not looking to start a flamewar... this vs that....yada, yada, yada... but the tundra cracks me up :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zShwG9l1F0Q&feature=related

Yeah, I've seen the video. Of course that video was done by Ford and set a just the correct resonant frequency to hit the Toyota. The other thing it does is prove what I stated before, which is the Silverado has a better Chassis. It does NOT change the fact that all the GM & esp Ford GAS engines are crap compared to the Tundra's. 381HP/401lb-ft with direct injection and a 6 speed for efficiency. Its a sweet mill and makes it the best gasser tow vehicle going. That said, like every towing truck owner that has a gas motor, "I shoulda gotten a diesel." The new silverado is sweet in every other way. That 4.5L should make it perfect.

As far as mpg goes, its true you've got to pedal the Tundra lightly to get decent mileage. I get 12.5mpg around town, but the highway is not a fluke. I've gotten 17.5 towing a car on an open trailer at 75mph!.

Toyota dropped the plans to develop / market a diesel truck for the pickup market. that should give GM a less competitive market to work with.


when was this? i just read the other day that it is on track to debut in 2010. They already have a diesel in the Australian spec'd Land Cruiser that is available now

People amaze me, you think it's your right to take the greatest gift ever given to anyone and sh!t all over it. The EPA is trying to save the planet for our children and grandchildren. If you really reflect on how selfish you are all acting you'll realize how ignorant you're being.

Would you rather spend a couple hundred dollars a year in extra fuel costs, or keep trashing our environment to the point our grandchildren (I'm in my early 30's) have nothing left for a planet. If you value a couple hundred dollars in your pocket more than the only known inhabitable planet in the universe for our species, then you're pathetic.

The EPA is not perfect.

I just wish people could see farther down the road than the end of their noses. Just because you don't see the effects of what you're doing today doesn't mean it's not real or won't happen.

I wan't better fuel economy too, but not at the expense of killing our planet.

The EPA is not perfect.

I just wish people could see farther down the road than the end of their noses. Just because you don't see the effects of what you're doing today doesn't mean it's not real or won't happen.

I wan't better fuel economy too, but not at the expense of killing our planet.

Oh please :rolleyes: someones been drinking deep of the eviro extremist's koolaid:D

The fact of the matter is..... is that its not the new cars that are problem..... its the older cars with lots of miles that have visible smoke. Its these cars that put out the pollution of 900 to 1500:eek: times the pollution of new cars. But its not PC to be picking on the poor so you don't here much about it.
If the EPA wasn't such an agenda driven agency, they would require testing cars no matter what the age. IF they were consistent, they would expect every car on the road to maintain the emission levels of when they were new. They don't so an old beater with visible smoke puts out more pollution in one week than a new car will in its first hundred thousand miles.
just my 2cents :)

People amaze me, you think it's your right to take the greatest gift ever given to anyone and sh!t all over it. The EPA is trying to save the planet for our children and grandchildren. If you really reflect on how selfish you are all acting you'll realize how ignorant you're being.

Would you rather spend a couple hundred dollars a year in extra fuel costs, or keep trashing our environment to the point our grandchildren (I'm in my early 30's) have nothing left for a planet. If you value a couple hundred dollars in your pocket more than the only known inhabitable planet in the universe for our species, then you're pathetic.

Oh grow up and stick your head outside and see the real world! It is pretty arrogant to think that man has the power to change the planet. First it was global cooling, then global warming, now because they can’t get it right they are calling it climate change. Do you think that it was the last 100 years of human activity that is changing the climate? The earth has it’s own ways of doing things that we humans have yet to figure out. What do you think caused the glaciers to recede the last time? Chevrolet and Ford? I think that these anti-capitalist people want to punish the greatest country on earth and regulate us to the point we loose our standing as a super power. Meanwhile China is going full steam ahead and building their country up. Their pollution is going undisputed by our environmentalists. God bless the USA, it looks like we will need it.

Oh please :rolleyes: someones been drinking deep of the eviro extremist's koolaid:D

The fact of the matter is..... is that its not the new cars that are problem..... its the older cars with lots of miles that have visible smoke. Its these cars that put out the pollution of 900 to 1500:eek: times the pollution of new cars. But its not PC to be picking on the poor so you don't here much about it.
If the EPA wasn't such an agenda driven agency, they would require testing cars no matter what the age. IF they were consistent, they would expect every car on the road to maintain the emission levels of when they were new. They don't so an old beater with visible smoke puts out more pollution in one week than a new car will in its first hundred thousand miles.
just my 2cents :)


Excellent point, and well said.

Oh grow up and stick your head outside and see the real world! It is pretty arrogant to think that man has the power to change the planet. First it was global cooling, then global warming, now because they can’t get it right they are calling it climate change. Do you think that it was the last 100 years of human activity that is changing the climate? The earth has it’s own ways of doing things that we humans have yet to figure out. What do you think caused the glaciers to recede the last time? Chevrolet and Ford? I think that these anti-capitalist people want to punish the greatest country on earth and regulate us to the point we loose our standing as a super power. Meanwhile China is going full steam ahead and building their country up. Their pollution is going undisputed by our environmentalists. God bless the USA, it looks like we will need it.

This is an exponential issue, people, cars, industry. We still have a chance to change things but there's not a lot of time left. Here's an example:

The Lily Pond Parable

If a pond lily doubles everyday and it takes 30 days to completely cover a pond, on what day will the pond be 1/4 covered?
1/2 covered?
Does the size of the pond make a difference?
What kind of environmental consequences can be expected as the 30th day approaches?
What will begin to happen at one minute past the 30th day?
At what point (what day) would preventative action become necessary to prevent unpleasant events?
With respect to human population, what corresponding day are we at in the world? The United States?There are many things to consider but to boldly state that we have nothing to do with it is very naive. I think that the world does have it's cycles but we aren't helping things at all. Yes we shouldn't be held to such high standards while we watch other countries belligerently pollute anything they like.

Answers to The Lily Pond Parable

If a pond lily doubles everyday and it takes 30 days to completely cover a pond, on what day will the pond be 1/4 covered?

Answer: Day 28. Growth will be barely visible until the final few days. (On the 25th day, the lilys cover 1/32nd of the pond; on the 21st day, the lilys cover 1/512th of the pond).

1/2 covered?

Answer: Day 29.

Does the size of the pond make a difference?

Answer: No. The doubling time is still the same. Even if you could magically double the size of the pond on day 30, it would still hold only one day's worth of growth!

What kind of environmental consequences can be expected as the 30th day approaches?

Answer: The pond will become visibly more crowded each day, and this crowding will begin to exhaust the resources of the pond.

What will begin to happen at one minute past the 30th day?

Answer: The pond will be completely covered. Even though the lilys will be reproducing, there will be no more room for additional lilys, and the excess population will die off. In fact, since the resources of the pond have been exhausted, a significant proportion of the original population may die off as well.

At what point (what day) would preventative action become necessary to prevent unpleasant events?

Answer: It depends on how long it takes to implement the action and how full you want the lily pond to be. If it takes two days to complete a project to reduce lily reproductive rates, that action must be started on day 28, when the pond is only 25% full -- and that will still produce a completely full pond. Of course, if the action is started earlier, the results will be much more dramatic.

With respect to human population, what corresponding day are we at in the world? The United States?
http://www.ecofuture.org/pop/images/worldpopline2.gif (http://www.ecofuture.org/pop/info.html)

"Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist" --Kenneth Boulding

-> 1 billion to 2 billion took 130 years
-> 2 billion to 4 billion took 45 years
-> we are close to 7 billion today
-> in another 5-7 years we will be 8 billion

If the earth is the "lilly pond" I'd say we are around day 25 or so. Still manageable, but we need to start thinking.

Ohh, as far as the 4.5 diesel, I think GM almost has to launch it. It's too versital to put back on the shelf. If they're thinking about putting it into the caddy I think there's hope. Also six cylinder derivatives of this engine in the Colorado would be a hit. Sky's the limit.

I can, however see them scrapping the larger displacement Duramax. If a duramax with a healthy tune in it can't pull what you want, buy a Kenworth.

the tundra at 20mgp is a joke...
my dad has one for just over a year and has about 45-50k on her..
he has never had more then my yamaha banshee in the back and the biggest tralior is our little pond boat... he says highway he gets about 15 on a good day..
city hes the same with me about 11- but again we live in NYC which from what i can gather on this forum is a diffrent city then most of you drive in(not trying to offend)

i will agree about the massive power that they 5.7 puts out. i personaly think its an ugly truck and that is not proven to me...for the NBS toyota i cant name anyone i personaly know who beats the piss out of it and is problem free..
my 1500 has about 8k but i bet im harder on my truck in 8k then he has ever been on his in more then 4x the miles...also my brother 01 GMc with 260k+ and runs fine.. been abused its hole life... if it hasent had an oil change in years it wouldent surprize me..

as far as the epa.. there all bullshit, no such thing as global warming this term pisses me off.. im sure if they werent has hard on these truck manf. as they are every us car would be getting better mpg, so if you want to point fingers the epa is the reason behind the drop is american cars/trucks sold..

just from reading on this forum from taking off the DPF on our lmm's people are gaining 3-4 mpg, most of you are willing to void your warrentys to get this 3-4 mpg.... i just find that amazing.. these truck are not cheap and who knows if you got that 1 in 1000 truck that will have a factory problem...

We still have a chance to change things but there's not a lot of time left.



as far as the epa.. there all bullshit, no such thing as global warming this term pisses me off.. im sure if they werent has hard on these truck manf. as they are every us car would be getting better mpg, so if you want to point fingers the epa is the reason behind the drop is american cars/trucks sold..

just from reading on this forum from taking off the DPF on our lmm's people are gaining 3-4 mpg, most of you are willing to void your warrentys to get this 3-4 mpg.... i just find that amazing.. these truck are not cheap and who knows if you got that 1 in 1000 truck that will have a factory problem...

I don’t believe that we have to do something because we don’t know what might happen if we don’t. Why do American companies have to have all these restrictions put on them when in other countries they don’t? Why do you think so many companies are leaving the USA? If the environmentalists really wanted to solve the pollution issue they would spend most of their time where the pollution is the worst, not trying to get American automobiles 98 present efficient instead of 97 percent. We are at the point where the cost of obtaining the emission requirements far out weighs the benefits! Who would have even imagined that it was even possible to reach these levels? That is the great thing about our country. We have extraordinary people who can solve the toughest challenges. It is too bad that all that talent is being used in the wrong direction. They could be making much more efficient vehicles that have acceptable emissions according to the world standard.

It does NOT change the fact that all the GM & esp Ford GAS engines are crap compared to the Tundra's. 381HP/401lb-ft with direct injection and a 6 speed for efficiency..

the tundra doesnt have direct injection moron.


GM gas engines are crap? They freakin wrote the book on V8 gas engines and were cranking them out long before any idiots at toyota even knew how to speak engrish.

Im not knocking the new tundra engine, thats pretty sweet they can get that much power out of a 5.7 liter. And they do run beautifully, being overhead cam and all (my mom has had 2 lexus V8's before her current one and they each had well over 200k miles on them when she traded them in, great running cars), but then theres more parts to go wrong, timing belts have to be replaced, etc... You cant beat the simplicity of the small block chevy. Theres hardly anything to them! No maybe they arent as silky smooth and refined, but they sure as hell get the job done and in the long run will be much cheaper to maintain. I know there are plenty of those little anemic 4 cylinder toyota mini-trucks running around with hundreds of thousands of troublefree miles on them, but there are also plenty of those chevy small blocks running around with the same amount of trouble free miles.

They are both good engines.

ben

the tundra doesnt have direct injection moron.


GM gas engines are crap? They freakin wrote the book on V8 gas engines and were cranking them out long before any idiots at toyota even knew how to speak engrish.

Im not knocking the new tundra engine, thats pretty sweet they can get that much power out of a 5.7 liter. And they do run beautifully, being overhead cam and all (my mom has had 2 lexus V8's before her current one and they each had well over 200k miles on them when she traded them in, great running cars), but then theres more parts to go wrong, timing belts have to be replaced, etc... You cant beat the simplicity of the small block chevy. Theres hardly anything to them! No maybe they arent as silky smooth and refined, but they sure as hell get the job done and in the long run will be much cheaper to maintain. I know there are plenty of those little anemic 4 cylinder toyota mini-trucks running around with hundreds of thousands of troublefree miles on them, but there are also plenty of those chevy small blocks running around with the same amount of trouble free miles.

They are both good engines.

ben
agreed...
the chevy set the bench mark for the small block

I don’t believe that we have to do something because we don’t know what might happen if we don’t. Why do American companies have to have all these restrictions put on them when in other countries they don’t? Why do you think so many companies are leaving the USA? If the environmentalists really wanted to solve the pollution issue they would spend most of their time where the pollution is the worst, not trying to get American automobiles 98 present efficient instead of 97 percent. We are at the point where the cost of obtaining the emission requirements far out weighs the benefits! Who would have even imagined that it was even possible to reach these levels? That is the great thing about our country. We have extraordinary people who can solve the toughest challenges. It is too bad that all that talent is being used in the wrong direction. They could be making much more efficient vehicles that have acceptable emissions according to the world standard.
your right.its like people here in america look at the bad and worry about shit that dosent matter...

what can you do... nothing we can do to change the epa hold on automakers and all the bullshit that they need..

the new tundra engine, thats pretty sweet they can get that much power out of a 5.7 liter. And they do run beautifully, being overhead cam and all (my mom has had 2 lexus V8's before her current one and they each had well over 200k miles on them when she traded them in, great running cars), but then theres more parts to go wrong, timing belts have to be replaced, etc... You cant beat the simplicity of the small block chevy.
You got that right!

And that timing belt replacement is NOT cheap, either.

Any potential advantage the Tundra's DOHC engine might have is wasted right there, wiped away just by the cost of timing belt replacement, not to mention the higher cost of other replacement parts for this engine that is rare and exotic compared to a SBC, and all to gain a tiny specific power advantage over the slightly larger, but simpler, GM counterpart.

Mercedes and even Ferrari engines might be a little better too, but that doesn't make them appropriate for this application.

Belt-driven DOHC may make economic sense for an inline 4 or 6, but not for a V-8 in pickup truck that is, after all, supposedly intended for, you know, getting actual work done.

I emailed GM the other day and this is how they responded.

Thank you for contacting GMC and for your interest in the 2010 Sierra! We appreciate the time you have taken to write us and for your loyalty to GMC.

Our new 4.5L Durimax Diesel engine is scheduled to debut in our 2010 Chevrolet Silverado and Sierra light duty trucks. It is significantly lighter than our current diesel engines, with more than 70 fewer parts, than other diesel engines and will deliver a 25-percent fuel economy improvement over a comparable gasoline engine. We suggest periodically visiting http://www.gmc.com and your preferred GMC dealer for updates on this emgine.

At GMC, we strive to provide exceptional customer service. If we can be of any further assistance please email us or call 1-888-988-7267, Monday through Friday between the hours of 8am to 9pm Eastern Time, and Saturday 9am to 6pm. Thank you for contacting GMC!

Sincerely,

The GMC Marketing Team
http://www.gmc.com

You have received this e-mail advertising GM products and services in response to your recent request for vehicle

I emailed GM the other day and this is how they responded.

Thank you for contacting GMC and for your interest in the 2010 Sierra! We appreciate the time you have taken to write us and for your loyalty to GMC.

Our new 4.5L Durimax Diesel engine is scheduled to debut in our 2010 Chevrolet Silverado and Sierra light duty trucks. It is significantly lighter than our current diesel engines, with more than 70 fewer parts, than other diesel engines and will deliver a 25-percent fuel economy improvement over a comparable gasoline engine. We suggest periodically visiting http://www.gmc.com and your preferred GMC dealer for updates on this emgine.

At GMC, we strive to provide exceptional customer service. If we can be of any further assistance please email us or call 1-888-988-7267, Monday through Friday between the hours of 8am to 9pm Eastern Time, and Saturday 9am to 6pm. Thank you for contacting GMC!

Sincerely,

The GMC Marketing Team
http://www.gmc.com

You have received this e-mail advertising GM products and services in response to your recent request for vehicle

I think its pretty cool that they even responded. Im sure the people at GM are just as excited as us to unvail the new diesel. I think a big part of sales will be decided by which automaker releases first. I bet there will be a tonne of the 6.6 trucks being traded in and the value of them will drop even more and that sucks. As of right now I owe more on my truck than I could sell it for, its a good thing I like it so much and never plan on selling anytime soon.

Wow, thanks dick. You're right it is not. No matter, nice mill. I just won't justify GM or Ford's lack of technology leadership. The small block as awesome as it was is 50+ year old technology. I want to buy a GM truck, I really do, but I needed the best gasser tow vehicle that got acceptable mileage. Fortunately, it looks like with the 4.5L they are stepping up to technology leadership again. Awesome!

As far as timing belt replacement costs, that sounds like a BS argument. This is a diesel forum and those suckers can be damn expensive vs. a small-block if the DI or Turbo go out.



the tundra doesnt have direct injection moron.


GM gas engines are crap? They freakin wrote the book on V8 gas engines and were cranking them out long before any idiots at toyota even knew how to speak engrish.

Im not knocking the new tundra engine, thats pretty sweet they can get that much power out of a 5.7 liter. And they do run beautifully, being overhead cam and all (my mom has had 2 lexus V8's before her current one and they each had well over 200k miles on them when she traded them in, great running cars), but then theres more parts to go wrong, timing belts have to be replaced, etc... You cant beat the simplicity of the small block chevy. Theres hardly anything to them! No maybe they arent as silky smooth and refined, but they sure as hell get the job done and in the long run will be much cheaper to maintain. I know there are plenty of those little anemic 4 cylinder toyota mini-trucks running around with hundreds of thousands of troublefree miles on them, but there are also plenty of those chevy small blocks running around with the same amount of trouble free miles.

They are both good engines.

ben

As far as timing belt replacement costs, that sounds like a BS argument. Not when you have to pay for it, which since this a routine maintenance item, is a certainty for anyone who keeps their truck a long time. Sure, other things that break that can unexpectedly cause expensive repairs, but they're not routine, virtually certain costs, either. Timing belt replacement is.

This is a diesel forum and those suckers can be damn expensive vs. a small-block if the DI or Turbo go out....which is why diesel pickup trucks don't make good economic sense for most non-commercial users (and a lot of commercial users, too) these days, as long as the cost of diesel fuel (and the diesel engine option itself) is so much higher than gasoline that it offsets at least most of the diesel engine's fuel economy advantage.

Most people on this diesel forum buy diesels because they want one, not because they need it. That's also why so many of them buy aftermarket add-ons, too. The demographic group on this forum is hardly representative of the entire pickup truck market.

shit i know if i buy the 4.5 i DONT NEED IT ... i want it ...

And let me guess - you're going to pay for at least some of the cost with borrowed money, too, right?

And let me guess - you're going to pay for at least some of the cost with borrowed money, too, right?
well with all the money that i have saved up knowing i can make the payment yes i will..

im 17 i put 12k down on my 08...

well with all the money that i have saved up knowing i can make the payment yes i will..

im 17 i put 12k down on my 08...

That's great, you are one of the few people who could sell that truck and almost get what they owe back out of it! I could do that too if I lived at home, and ate free food.

I don’t believe that we have to do something because we don’t know what might happen if we don’t. Why do American companies have to have all these restrictions put on them when in other countries they don’t? Why do you think so many companies are leaving the USA? If the environmentalists really wanted to solve the pollution issue they would spend most of their time where the pollution is the worst, not trying to get American automobiles 98 present efficient instead of 97 percent. We are at the point where the cost of obtaining the emission requirements far out weighs the benefits! Who would have even imagined that it was even possible to reach these levels? That is the great thing about our country. We have extraordinary people who can solve the toughest challenges. It is too bad that all that talent is being used in the wrong direction. They could be making much more efficient vehicles that have acceptable emissions according to the world standard.

The great part for me is that in 5-10 years everyone denying that there's anything wrong will remember this conversation. Bless your heart.

Yeah, I've seen the video. Of course that video was done by Ford and set a just the correct resonant frequency to hit the Toyota.

******Bullshit. They have to be going at some speed for a test and 28 looks to be as fast as you'd ever go on a road like that. The Jap truck sure bends a lot.



As far as mpg goes, its true you've got to pedal the Tundra lightly to get decent mileage. I get 12.5mpg around town, but the highway is not a fluke.

*******Decent mileage, go downhill.

Nothing wonderful about 12.5 around town. That thing is a pig.

The great part for me is that in 5-10 years everyone denying that there's anything wrong will remember this conversation. Bless your heart.

No, the great part for you is that nobody cares what you think now and in 5-10yrs nobody will remember your dumb posts.

That's great, you are one of the few people who could sell that truck and almost get what they owe back out of it! I could do that too if I lived at home, and ate free food.
try an diss me all you want...
i pitch in pleanty at home.. be it working around my house and helping with the renovations or giving my mother a few bucks here and there for eletric bills, vet bills for our dogs..i do all the cooking in the house..
and i never accept a dime from my mother...so keep thinking im one of those guys;) ...

No, the great part for you is that nobody cares what you think now and in 5-10yrs nobody will remember your dumb posts.

In 5-10 years they will be proven wrong AGAIN but they will be arguing something else at that time while still stating that they are the experts. :rolleyes:

try an diss me all you want...
i pitch in pleanty at home.. be it working around my house and helping with the renovations or giving my mother a few bucks here and there for eletric bills, vet bills for our dogs..i do all the cooking in the house..
and i never accept a dime from my mother...so keep thinking im one of those guys;) ...

I never said you were. I was saying that I've been in your position and made similar choices. When you're older and you have a family; taking almost every penny you made over the summer and thowing it all into a truck isn't an option. If everyone on this sight could do that(we all want to) General Motors would rule the world.

The idea, I so poorly expressed in my last post was: If I could go back I'd try not to throw so much money away, I'd be miles ahead in life. You can't save it all, there's no fun in that. But if I could have put alittle more away for my future/education/practical vehicle/house it would have made my life a little easier along the way.

In 5-10 years they will be proven wrong AGAIN but they will be arguing something else at that time while still stating that they are the experts. :rolleyes:

I hope that I am wrong, and I'm far from an expert. My ideas seem crazy, but I really care. It doesn't make sense to allow ourselves to be completely blindsided by something when a little forsight could have prevented it.

Three months ago our president was telling us our economy was fine.

Three weeks ago he was begging us to pass a "bail out plan" for the economy that he said was "fine".

Now you're starting to hear the words "world recession"

Over two years ago there were economic indicators for all of these events, did we do one thing to prevent any of this? Nothing was done because we were "told" we were ok, when we knew we were not. Now we are in the fight of our lives to fix our economy.

They are still telling us that there is no global warming and everything is "fine."

No, the great part for you is that nobody cares what you think now and in 5-10yrs nobody will remember your dumb posts.

They do

They will, especially you :)

gms gass engines are superior to tundras 5.7 in every way. the ls based pushrod smallblock is the heart of the performance world right now. the aftermarket/parts availabilty is amazing for gm engines because they are all basically the same engine design for all their cars INCLUDING the go fast ones such as the vett/camero ect which makes for parts interchangeability, genius, no other company has seemed to catch on to this idea yet... so there is no argument an ls engine has more potential, now if you want to talk fuel millage its pretty obvious gm beats the competition hands down, i shouldn't even have to argue that. and global warming has little or nothing to do with humans, its a natural cycle that has been exploited and made into a way to make money, if you don't believe me, research it a bit. the epa needs to die.

They do

They will, especially you :)

You're delusional.

i don't get the whole situation, if we're forced to run cleaner vehicles with DPF's that get less mileage than they're counterparts aren't we creating more greenhouse gases by burning more fuel than than we're scrubbing out? Not certain and I can't say I've ever seen a direct comparision(would be interesting though).

I'd love to see a 20mpg Tundra, I only know 2 people that own them but they're only getting mid teens at best so you have a special truck there. Than again I used to be able to get 20+ in my duramax on good days when many others struggle for upper teens as well.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r16/TenaciousCDSM/arguing.jpg

I'd love to see a 20mpg Tundra, I only know 2 people that own them but they're only getting mid teens at best so you have a special truck there. Than again I used to be able to get 20+ in my duramax on good days when many others struggle for upper teens as well.

You're compairing apples to oranges. If you want to talk tundra fuel mileage, you have to compare it to chevy gas engines. In that respect, the tundra will do as well or better than a chev. Don't get me wrong, i like chevs and dodges and toyotas but hp/displacement is also in toyota's favor. From an engineering standpoint, the 5.7iforce is an impressive engine.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r16/TenaciousCDSM/arguing.jpg

Exactly. That's why we should be having a discussion and not an argument.

You're compairing apples to oranges. If you want to talk tundra fuel mileage, you have to compare it to chevy gas engines. In that respect, the tundra will do as well or better than a chev. Don't get me wrong, i like chevs and dodges and toyotas but hp/displacement is also in toyota's favor. From an engineering standpoint, the 5.7iforce is an impressive engine.
Yeah from an engineering standpoint it is impressive... But I get 17-18 in town and 21-22 on the highway with my 05 5.3 tahoe.. Hand calcd.
Also, Anyone that wants to debate the reliability of the small block chevy... We had a taxi company in NJ for 30 years......... These guys beat the SHi* out of these things 22 hours a day (shift changes) and we have had hundreds with over 300-350000 miles on a stock motor before needing anything.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r16/TenaciousCDSM/arguing.jpg

You know how they say a picture says a thousand words, well this picture basically summed up this entire thread.
I'm not disagreeing with you guys, I hate the EPA, and I hate Toyotas, but it is hard to beat sense into someone's head over the internet.

I think the idea of a durable 4.5L diesel, if made for a good price, would make sufficient power in a more reliable and useful fashion than nearly any gas motor that might ever be available. The ignition systems of gas motors always seems to err long term and late component life efficiency (stack that with the injector problems common to gas and diesel and diesel seems to take the upper hand).

As for the tundra motor, they did create some sort of a beast. It's the only v-8 available in those trucks and it's right around 400hp. It's way more complex than i'd prefer. The truck is ugly (my opinion, debate me all you want on it :P). While the plant IS in my home town (San Antonio) I have a personal vendetta against toyota, since they built their factory near my race track (San Antonio Speedway), the area has been annexed by the city and the people in the 'card board and broad' houses over there petitioned to shut the beloved half-mile paved oval of my childhood down. :horsey:
So, no the tundra doesn't compare to even a 4.5L diesel (especially while under load)!

The old style cam in the valley operation MIGHT not be the BEST option for all cases... but say a division of your company was working on a technology like... solenoid valves (Cadillac) then it might make sense to have a motor with two huge ultra efficient valves per cylinder instead of four. 100% variable valve timing on the fly might be a bit more efficient, powerful and fun over DOHC.
Such technology would give LS motors the upper hand in the long run (and seems to do decently well in the short run).
Maybe, one day, solenoid valves might even be reliable enough to put in a diesel. But now I'm just dreaming.

That 4.5L diesel is a good idea in my book. I don't need 500+ ft lbs of tq in a 3/4 ton truck to be honest. But i like the highway efficiency of the turbo diesel and the sports car like straight line acceleration.

So pack it a little smaller for me GM and make me smile from ear to ear while i light all four tires of my mid-sized turbo diesel pickup up :) :coolnana:

Has anyone heard a release date for the 4.5L Duramax? I would like to see one as an option for the Tahoe and Suburban.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J4wFwIXC7U

Sweeeeeettttttttt