I just installed the heath pmd relocation kit along with 3" downpipe,2.5" mandrel x over, and the turbo master with the heavier spring and now the truck sputters like the computer is cutting fuel while driving in a high gear around 2100-2500 rpms. I have the spring set at 21/4 inches for approximately 10lbs of boost I am also using the BD performance chip. I am waiting for a reply from Bill Heath regarding the problem, but thought I should ask this here also. Does the computer not like the added boost? I will be adding guages very soon to monitor everything, but want to know if anyone has had this problem? Thanks for the input.

Mine is all mechanical, but I do know that the computer does not like this. This is why some people use resistors and other methods to cure the problem. I am sure someone with the electrical system will fill you in soon. For now, look at other threads from the past. I am sure you will find what you are looking for. Good luck.

I guess all aftermarket reflashes are not the same. Resistors on the MAP will cure that. Search boost fooling, boost jacking.

The problem may be with the BD reflash, aka Z industries who does theirs, I sent mine back, for the money little benefit to BDs vs a stock F PCM, send it back if you can; and get Heath's or Kennedy's latest version, Kennedy used to sell the Z Ind early on he had same lackluster performance with it also. A good reflash will allow for more boost and fuel & does not need fooling.

(BTW you said chip, your sig says you are a 97 which requires PCM reflash did you rechip or reflash) Also until you get boost gage and EGT meter I'd be very conservative with that boost setting on the TM, if the PCM is clipping either for high boost or IAT you are probably bumping hight EGT also, are you getting any codes or just cut back. Do you have access to a scan tool you need to see what is happening on scan tool while driving.

Could also be lift pump/ops problems you can't meet high power/towing fuel delivery on just IP alone, check to make sure your lift pump is putting out.

try setting your spring at 2" and see what happens. had to tinker with mine a little bit and it is set at 2" and i run 10 pounds of boost. you may be overboosting at 2.25". after reading your post i went to find my papers from my turbo master and mine say if it is stock setup spring length should be 1.75" and if you have the heath chip spring length should be 2".

thanks for all the reply's my computer had a reflash I will correct my sig. I spoke with bill at heath diesel and he said first thing to check the fuel pressure, because it sounds like it is the lift pump since I havn't set off any codes, but just this morning after 10 days of the truck bucking the ses light did come on. I will take it to my diesel mechanic and have him check to see whats codes have been tripped and try and rule things out. I just might be the fuel lift pump or Bill said it might also be Frank,
Low lift pump pressure can sometimes cause 'sympathetic' codes. The first thing to do is see how the pressure is. Also, in '97, GM stopped using what is known as an electronic filter harness, however many earlier '97's had this. When this harness begins to fail, it can set codes, turn on the light and cause rough running.
The harness is about 8" long with a male connector on one end and a female on the other. it plugs into the optic sensor at the top-rear of the injection pump. You will find the 4-prong connector there coming into the pump from the rear. Unplug it and pull the harness up to see if there is another connector about 8" along the wires. Later '97's had the engine harness plugged directly into the optic sensor and the filtering was done in the ECM. But look to see if yours has one and if it does, replace it. We have them or you can get one from the GM dealer.
Give me a call if you'd like more info.

Best regards
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Frank De Trana [mailto:fdetrana@yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 7:29 AM
To: Bill Heath
Subject: RE: turbo master 97 6.5 TD


Thanks a lot for the fast reply's Bill this morning after the truck bucked once or twice the ses light did come on, but the truck drives fine so the power is not staying low could it still be the fuel lift pump? I will check the fuel pressure like you said just wondering if it could still be the lift pump with the light on now? Thanks

Frank

Bill Heath <bill@heathdiesel.com> wrote:
<XMETA content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1479" name="GENERATOR">Frank,
When an overboost condition happens, it will turn on the service engine soon light and the power will drop and stay low. What you describe, sounds more like a problem with the fuel lift pump. When it is weak and pressure is low, the engine will buck and stumble when trying to add power and this typically happens when trying to accelerate above 50-60 mph. There is nothing about the operation of the Turbo-Master, itself, that could bring on this kind of operational condition. However, with the Turbo-Master making additional boost, the computer will try to add fuel and maybe just enough more to show the weakness in the lift pump.
Fuel pressure can be checked by hooking a pressure gauge to the fuel filter drain cock, located near the thermostat housing at the front of the engine. Pressure there should not go below 2psi when driving at full throttle. If you do not have our fuel pressure test gauge and if you know that the fuel lift pump is old, it may be easier and best to replace it. These have to be in good condition. We have a heavy-duty version that is a direct bolt on replacement for the original. Cost is $95.

Keep me posted.

Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Frank De Trana [mailto:fdetrana@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 9:26 AM
To: Bill Heath
Subject: RE: turbo master 97 6.5 TD


I now have the spring adjusted to 21/4 inch and the truck sputters now while accelerating in a high gear at low rpms like 2100-2500 like the fuel is being cut? Is this what happens when the BD program is not being tollerant? Have you heard of any other customers with this problem? Should I lengthen the spring a little more? Thanks a lot once again.

Frank De Trana

here I just might as well copy and paste our e mail discussion. I will keep people posted on any developements. thanks again for the fast reply's.

I would like to send it back and get heaths latest version, but I am not sure they will give me my money back after I have had the reflash in the truck for about 6 months? Do you think it is worth asking for money back?

I would like to send it back and get heaths latest version, but I am not sure they will give me my money back after I have had the reflash in the truck for about 6 months? Do you think it is worth asking for money back?
Never can hurt to "asK' can it?

I think Heath is correct on the ecm lower power and keeping it there, but that's OBDI. OBDII sputters just like you describe. Tell BD that there chip didn't pass the test and send it back.

I just e mailed BD to see if I can send it back we will see what they say. Is my computer obd I or II? I thought OBD II began in 98? So that would make me OBD I, but my truck bucks like OBD II? Just a little confusing?

'82-'94 some '95 OBDI
'95-present OBDII

I think I understand what your talking about now, it cuts back when your at full throttle. Thats overboost. OBDI's kick into limp mode when they see too much boost, OBDIIs momentarily trim fuel back until boost drops, and it will immediately, then the fuel is restored, then the overboost occurs again and the cycle repeats. I've seen this on a lot of trucks with Wastegate solenoids stuck Full On, but the same thing would happen if you have too much spring tension on from your turbo master set up. Back the spring off, get a boost gauge, problem solved.

I hope your right I am going to back down on the spring a little more as I already have some and it still bucks. It will buck at 3/4 throttle it does not have to be full so could it still be the fuel lift pump I think I need to check fuel pressure like Bill Heath said don't you think? I also need to find a scanner so I can see what codes are being set, but I am not sure there is a scanner in my area that does not cost an arm and a leg. I will be updating as I rule things out.

I'll bet your going to see 'Boost Sensor Out Of Range'.
Check your fuel pump, can't hurt to make sure its working, but I wouldn't worry about supply pressure too much, as long as its making good pressure and theres no air.

When you scan your truck MAP readings should be 1.50v. It's possible the MAP is bad and causing this. It would be faulty if it's reading toward the top of the signal range, ~5.0v

Faulty MAP sensor or wiring problem could cause the same thing, but since he didn't have this problem before the Turbo Master, I suspect that it is the cause.

I had a problem with clipped fuel when my MAP went bad high, no code set, auto zone and other similar can read codes for free but won't know what to do with them, once you get the number of the code go to the FAQs code list see what it is report back to us we can probably diagnose it better than your dealer unless they have an old 6.5 tech on staff, most dealers only know DMAX Diesels now. But also do basic trouble shooting, fuel filter, fuel lift pump pressure, many times you can self fix a lot of the most common problems; we will walk you through what you don't know. Do a little then report back what you find, and we can guide you to the next step.

Need to get a boost gauge too, that will be very valuable in troubleshooting and monitoring turbo performance.

With your truck idling, open the petcock valve near the thermostat housing on the water crossover. It's front and center on the motor. If the truck dies after 30 seconds, the lift pump or OPS is dead. If it keeps running, your lift pump is fine.

With your truck idling, open the petcock valve near the thermostat housing on the water crossover. It's front and center on the motor. If the truck dies after 30 seconds, the lift pump or OPS is dead. If it keeps running, your lift pump is fine.
Your OPS could still be failing under after longer use. so you might want to wrie around that OPS for a short term test. Just to make sure.

When my engine was cutting out at high rpm it turned out to be my stretched accessory belt pulling on the tensioner. I don't know how the accessories are set up on the 96+. But pulling the accessory belt off and running it around the block would at least eliminate the belt, or a siezing accessory as a possible suspects.

I appreciate all the help!! I am having the truck scanned on thursday and will report back with the codes. Does anyone know if the 80 dollar scanner that
Kragen sells or other auto parts store sell will work for my truck? It would be nice to have your own scanner?

If its and OBDII Code Reader, yes it will read the codes, they usually come with a definition booklet to tell you what the code means too.

and fortunately for you it's an OBDII and not an OBDI. The best price for a code reader with a readout was $378.00 +tx. The ones that I looked at for the OBDII's were substancially cheaper.

Picked the truck up yesterday they replaced the lift pump and I test drove it this morning and truck does the same thing! I still have to ask whats codes they got after the scan. Anyway I am bringing it back this afternoon. What else could it be? They narrowed it down to a fuel delivery problem. I will update the post when there are more developements. Thanks.

Are you sure the OPS is working correctly ALL the time?

oil pressure switch would that be related to my problem? I do not know if they have looked at that?

OPS powers the LP on a side circuit from the dash gauge.

I will have him look into that. Thanks.

OR just change it don't cost a bunch, easy to do.

Probibly will just do that.

where is the ops located?

under the lower intake plenum near #7 intake runner on a '97.

Well the lift pump is replaced also the ops and truck still bucks. No codes have been tripped. It must be overboost and the obd II is cutting fuel. I think I will adjust the spring on the turbo master to lower the boost and see what that does or I was thinking about the aftermarket map sensor from summit? Is the accel 3 bar map sensor the correct one for my application? Or should I get another stock one?

That's the one I just ordered for 53.88. we'll see when it get here next week

well I backed off on the boost and the bucking went away, but after driving 60 easy miles on the freeway the ses light came on so I went to my mechanic and he scanned it for no charge and these three codes came up P0236, P0238, P0251. What does this mean? Truck runs fine no bucking just the light? Just looked at what the codes stand for and the last one scares me is that mean the injector pump is failing? I sure hope not as the truck runs fine. Truck has 140,000 miles and I have only owned it for a year and put 14,000 miles on it without any problems. I do not know the history of the vehicle. Any thoughts?

well I backed off on the boost and the bucking went away, but after driving 60 easy miles on the freeway the ses light came on so I went to my mechanic and he scanned it for no charge and these three codes came up P0236, P0238, P0251. What does this mean? Truck runs fine no bucking just the light? Just looked at what the codes stand for and the last one scares me is that mean the injector pump is failing? I sure hope not as the truck runs fine. Truck has 140,000 miles and I have only owned it for a year and put 14,000 miles on it without any problems. I do not know the history of the vehicle. Any thoughts?52172,

I got lucky when I had my P0251 mine was rubbed wires where the ECM wires go from the engine to the cab four of them had rubbed on an AC line. I resealed the wires and I was gook to go it's something cheap and easy to check.

Carey

I will look into that I just finished reading your post I did a search for the code and your post comes up. I sure hope it is something minor. The truck runs fine all the time it is just the code that is bugging me. I know there is something funny about the electrical system on my truck as sometimes the wipers wont't work or the spray for the windshield, but you can hear a little wining sound coming from behind the dash. Also the lights dim and brighten and the volt gage fluctuates right after the truck starts? I don't know if that could be related at all the the code?

Just one thing to add the list of codes was 0236 1st then 0238 then last was 0251 I don't know if that means anything or if the 0251 code could of been left over from the bucking problem of too much boost? I would think truck would not run right if the injection pump was failing?

236- Boost System Problem, 238- Boost Sensor HIGH Voltage, and 251- Pump Rotor Cam problem...

I would guess the High input voltage that tripped the 238 code also tripped the 236 code, and are probably linked to a wiring problem or faulty sensor.
The 251 Code is probably because you need to have your TDC Offset set to specs.

Just one thing to add the list of codes was 0236 1st then 0238 then last was 0251 I don't know if that means anything or if the 0251 code could of been left over from the bucking problem of too much boost? I would think truck would not run right if the injection pump was failing?All of those electrical issues made the lightbulb go on in my head. YOU NEED TO CLEAN YOUR GROUNDS! One cable on each battery, and one braided cable between the frame, block and body down by the starter. Grounds are notorious for causing electrical gremlins in these trucks.

what side effects would not having the tdc offset set properly be besides the light? Could the timing be off because of the lift pump failure that was going on earlier the pressure would drop the less than 2 psi whenever fuel was recquired?

Slight power loss normally. Better to get it right than to live with the light on. Then you know when something is really the matter with your truck. And it will run better too.