Why doesn't Chevy or GMC offer the Suburban/Yukon XL with a diesel any more? Did they stop after the 6.5's?

Seems like there would be some demand for a 3/4 ton with diesel, but what do I know.

I agree. There is a guy out in Colorado that does conversions but they're pretty pricey. Around $70K if I remember correctly. They look stock though.

I did a search for a surb with a diuramax & here is a link to 1 of our guys doing it?

The site you are looking for is: www.duramaxsuburban.com That was easy!! He is located in CO.



http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/gar...o=view&g=14412

they didnt have any trouble selling them with no diesel.

And if they offered a diesel? Great, just when GM needs to not waste money on something thats notprofitable. All the R&D and separate production line for a total of probably 1000 extra units sold a year. Come on guys I know WE would all love a diesel suburban, but look at 95% of the people who buy suburbans. Do you HONESTLY think they care what kind of engine is under the hood? No. :)

ben

I've got friends with a PSD EX that would buy one if it's offered,till then they will head for the 300K mark in hopes of another full sized diesel SUV.

well thats great, and I know lots of people here on DP and maybe 2 people around town that would buy them (diesel burban) too if GM offered it....but we as "diesel enthusiasts" (who would appreciate something like a diesel suburban) are such a SMALL percentage of the market share GM is trying to target with the suburban in general.

Like I just said, if GM puts all the extra R&D (oh and I know it all sounds so simple 'well they wouldnt have to re-invent things, just bolt a dmax in duh') into crash testing, frame stuff, transmission stuff, etc into a dmax suburban, and they sell 1000 a year (because the end cost would be a lot AND 95% of suburbans potential buyers could care less what engine is in the damn thing, as long as it gets the kids to soccer practice).....they just wasted a lot of money.

You cant please everyone. Its all about the market share, target buyer, and what will sell the most vehicles for the least amount of money. Thats just the way it works.

I dont know why this economics/buisness aspect/concept is so hard for people to understand, its like the people that say "wull dang wouldnt that be dandy if GM offered a solid front axle option package on the dmax's, that would sell well and be a great idea!!".

ben

I dont know why this economics/buisness aspect/concept is so hard for people to understand, its like the people that say "wull dang wouldnt that be dandy if GM offered a solid front axle option package on the dmax's, that would sell well and be a great idea!!".

Hey Ben, you've got an opinion, you don't need to lecture me like its fact. I might just understand that economics/business stuff a bit.

You may in fact be right, GM would sell only a few more vehicles and not be worth the cost of production. I'm not completely sure of that. Why make a 4 door short bed diesel pickup? Wouldn't they sell just as many fancy, non-work pickups with gas engines? The answer is a certain % of the buying public wants a diesel for towing, for higher mpg, for durability, or just because they like diesels. I believe the Grand Cherokee is the only diesel SUV on the market, and I think there WOULD be a market for a diesel Suburban, or Suburban and Tahoe combo.

I'm convinced that the EPA and automakers will wake up and start offering more diesel vehicles, including SUV's. Maybe it won't be a Duramax Suburban, instead it might be smaller diesel engines in Envoys, SUV's that get 25 mpg and can tow a lot of weight. The big three are in trouble because they can't read a market or plan ahead, so don't assume that because they are not making these vehicles that they have the marketing figured out correctly.

David

They are gonna make the new subrban with the new 4.5 diesel coming out in 2010

GM had the Suburban with the new 4.5 diesel at last years SEMA show.

I believe the Grand Cherokee is the only diesel SUV on the market,

And how many of those do you see. :)

I myself have only seen ONE Liberty diesel in real life, and they have been out for years and dont make them anymore.

The thing is that a Suburban is only good for what, 9,000 lbs towing maybe? Thats no problem for a 6.0 or 8.1 Burban. Saying that a diesel suburban is just as necessary as a 4 door short bed diesel pickup is silly. You can tow a huge GN trailer with a pickup that probably weighs over 9,000lbs. Its these higher weights that the diesel is nice. Completely different league as the suburban.

You guys just watch, first year diesel suburban sales in 2010 are not going to be as runaway a hit as you think. ;)

ben

The answer is a certain % of the buying public wants a diesel for towing, for higher mpg, for durability, or just because they like diesels.


see, this is what is completely blowing over everyones head. The general public today IS NOT what it was 10 years ago. People dont buy suburbans anymore because they NEED the towing capacity etc... I know its dumb, but thats the way it is. I can count the number of times on one hand that ive seen a Suburban towing a load that would have maybe necessitated a diesel.

That "certain % of the buying public" you speak of??? Yeah thats probably 3, MAYBE 4%. ;)

ben

The Liberty diesel wasn't exactly a tightly engineered package, and word got out quickly about that. I don't think dealers even wanted to sell or learn how to service them.

JGC diesel is a very nice package in my opinion, but is expensive for a small SUV.

Ben, I don't necessarily disagree with your point on Suburbans. If the package is a 7,000 lb. SUV with a diesel that gets 19 mpg and costs $50,000 I don't think all that many will sell either, and I don't know how many units are needed to justify the engineering. Will some of the diesel pickup buyers buy Suburbans instead? Probably a few, guys like me with 3 kids that need all the seating and space. I do think that the technology is there for a 5,000 lb. SUV with a smaller diesel that gets 25 mpg and can tow and cruise quite well. If you present vehicles that have lots of capability and are fuel efficient, for a reasonable price, I think they will sell. I don't know enough about the 4.5 to know if that fits the bill or not.

I didn't say a diesel Suburban was JUST AS NECESSARY as a diesel pickup. Taking your point, of the people I know with fancy diesel pickups that are not work trucks, I bet only 1 in 5 of them tow more than a 5,000 lb. boat.

I'll tell you this - if Detroit's answer to high fuel prices is to build Suburbans, Tahoes, Expeditions and Durangos with hybrids that cost $50,000 and barely get 20 mpg, they ought to look to diesels instead, assuming the EPA will let them build them.

Fun discussion!

I think a new diesel suburban is definately in the market here. A friend of mine's wife drives a diesel liberty that gets like 30 mpg. My dad said it himself he would trade his 04 duramax for a duramax burb. My mom drives a 2008 5.3 burb and wishes she still had her duramax. My girlfriend has absolutely no need for a truck except to pull her two horse trailer, my 8.1 suburban gets 7 mpg with that trailer, while my duramax dually get's 16-17 mpg with the same trailer. I can think of at least 10 people that would seriously consider a duramax suburban including myself. Also, there are 4 diesel excursions just on my street.

The reason GM gives is that the Allison won't fit into the smaller,1/2 ton frame, only the 11 inch frame on the HD models(1500 hd is 1/2 ton). So what about the express vans that seem to do ok with the regular trans?

The reason GM gives is that the Allison won't fit into the smaller,1/2 ton frame, only the 11 inch frame on the HD models(1500 hd is 1/2 ton). So what about the express vans that seem to do ok with the regular trans?


its more that the taller diesel radiator and front stack dont fit as well.

As far as using a 4L80, yes it works fine in the Express/Savanna vans. But the dmax is derated to 250hp. In this constant hp battle who, honestly when shopping would want a big SUV thats "only" 250hp.

AND YES I KNOW everyone here realizes that while it is 'only' 250hp, its a lot more torque than a gasser, and will probably move out just as well or better than a gasser, especially when towing. But the general public doesnt know that. They just want something with lots of hp to keep up with the Jones's.

ben

Packaging issues and cost of production with a 6.6 Duramax is why there isn't a Sub with a diesel. I do believe though that a Suburban with a 4.5L is just a matter of time, hooked up to the 6spd of the 6.0HD's. Rumors are flying around that GM is moving the Cadillac Escalade to the FWD/AWD stretched Lambda platform currently used by the Acadia/Enclave/Outlook/Traverse. Basically to get the larger SUV's on a lighter, more mpg friendlier achitecture. This would leave the Sub out on it's own as far as truck based. Which in cost of production could mean the Suburban and truck lines could/should be combined at one of the truck plants, since the basic components are similar/same. Plus a 20-25mpg Suburban, which I think is totally possible, would be a huge seller. One things for certain, due to CAFE, GM's large SUV's are going to have to get much, much better mpg's or GM better sell few hundred thousand compact cars a year that get CAFE numbers greater than 40mpg's to offset the total combine numbers of all vehicles sold. Chris


Hot of the press, GM making more 4 cyl engines by 2010 http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f12/gm-invest-370-million-build-new-small-engine-plant-69574/

Who knows, but one thing is for sure, things change.

When you select a vehicle on the autozone website it gives you the percentage of vehicles depending on engine size. I'm not sure if these are production numbers or numbers based on their website traffic. I looked at 2006 burbs and yukon xl's, 4x4 only. I choose '06 because that was before most of the fuel price changes.

Chevy - 3/4t burb - 61% 6.0 and 39% 8.1
GMC - 3/4t XL - 54% 6.0 and 46% 8.1

Granted the 3/4t volume is much smaller than the 1/2t but I was suprised at the percentage of big blocks in suv's. If you look at '06 2500HD's big blocks are only 2% for both chev and gmc but diesel is 50+%.

If an Express van can survive with a 4L85E trans the General missed the boat not doing the same to the burb.