I have problems and need some wisdom and if you would be so kind to write back, I would be so thankful. Here are the facts:
I have been running on home brew: heavily filtered (down to 2 micron) WVO in a mix of 10% Kero, 5% Gasoline, DIesel Kleen, mineral spirits & naptha. This mix runs great and did on good mixes for about 5 thousand miles until we had a bad batch of Chinese WVO that was questionable. It had a green tint and we think that motor oil was mixed in at the bottom of the tank. At fillup, the trucks would die right away and restart at a idle but die when put in gear. Total clean out worked and running dino seemed to work.

My 1998 K3500 pickup continued to have problems with trouble codes pointing to injector pump metering and crankshaft pos sensor. IP was replaced. Truck ran good for a couple of thousand miles. This Chinese stuff was still left as residuals in a couple of contauners we had. We had to dump the tank on this 98 twice before to get it to run and it seemed that the CHinese mix had something very deadly to the truck. Somehow we think a very little bit of this deadly fuel was washed in from the sides of a tank. Anyway after fillup, truck died at same spot on the road as before, except it would not start. Code read that the Manufacturer Computer and seneor inputs. I swapped a computer (ECM) from running truck to no avail. Came back in several hours and truck started and ran to get it home running rough and stalled once. It started and ran to driveway and stalled. It has not started since. We cleaned out the tank. I opened the tank since I have total access (Dump Truck Pickup). I checked all lines after refill with dino. I found that a new lift pump was not pumping - replaced and have a geyser at the filter ****. Codes from the last 1 mile run indicate: IP fuel metering control, IP Timing & crankshaft pos sensor. Replaced crankshaft position sensor. Fuel is a geyser at the filter and shooting out at the IP line in but, no fuel is evident at the injector. Opened and later removed the lines from the injectors and no fuel is getting to the injectors on extended crank. I have checked all electrical connections, grounds, etc. It seems that this deadly mix had wrecked something in the IP. Do you have any ideas?

Thanks so much

Bob

moved here, the 6.5 guy's will help you.

run the diagnostic checklist and post on here! it will help us help you.

run the diagnostic checklist and post on here! it will help us help you.


0. Describe in detail the problem you are having. Please be as descriptive as possible.
1. Does the engine crank, or 'turn over'? YES
1a. Does the engine start and run? NO
1a1. If the engine does not start - Crack injector line (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2188140#post2188140): do you have fuel? Yes/No YES
1b. Do you have a Wait To Start Light & the amount of time (seconds) lit. NORMAL 5 SEC?
1c. Ambient Condition (temperature outside indicate F or C) 85-90 °
1d. Engine Cranking speed (if you have an accurate tachometer). NO TACH TILL IT STARTS BUT NEW BATTERIES – FAST TURNOVER
1e. Are you experiencing stalling? WAS BEFORE NO START CONDITION
1f. If Stalling, describe (upon startup only, down the road, hit a bump etc) AFTER FILLUP UPHILL AND PRESSING PEDAL DOWN
1g. If Stalling, do you notice loss of dash or instruments? NO
-note if experiencing stalling,you must indicate PMD location in #24.

1h. Check turbo inlet and air filter for obstructions. Cone filters have lost disk and stopped air to turbo.
1.1 Lift pump test (http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39350)- describe results LIFT PUMP IS WORKING GREAT AS NOTED
2. Service Engine Light while running?- on/off/intermittent YES ON WHEN STALLED
2a. Service Engine light does glow during start/cranking/bulb check: Yes/No YES
3. Model year
3a. Odometer reading (indicate if in miles or km) 139K
3b. Miles on major engine components if been replaced (example Injection pump) IP 2K, LIFT PUMP 50 MILES, PMD 7K,Crankshaft Pos sensor 0-new
3c. Indicate the model number on the Injection pump (starts DS4 or DB2......) DS4
4. Have you scanned for engine codes? (varies by pre/post 96) yes/no YES
5. List exact results on engine codes (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/dtc.php): PO370 TIMING REF HIGH RES, PO335 CRANKSHAFT POS (ckp) SENSOR CIRCUIT, another code referring to: Manufacturer Computer Malfunction and (?) inputs – This code would not clear until vehicle restart as listed – (1 mile run).
6. Air Filter condition (visual check) CLEAN - AFTERMARKET
7. Fuel filter condition (freshly changed/condition unknown/mileage since changed) BRAND NEW NO MILES – REPLACED BECAUSE IT WAS VERY DIRTY PROBABLY FROM THE TANK CLEANING AS LISTED.
8. Condition of Battery terminal connections (removed, cleaned and tightened) NEW OPTIMAS TERMINALS ARE CLEAN
8a. Known condition and age of the batteries. NEW
8b. Are batteries of differing age or are they a matched set?MATCHED
8c. Condition of Major Grounds (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157085). (same drill as batt - removed, cleaned, retightened) CLEAN GOOD
9. Upon cold start, does the radiator hose get hard quickly? Yes/no NO
10. Upon cold start, do you have excessive white smoke? Yes/no NO
11. Do you have excessive cranking time before the engine starts? INTERMITTEDLY THERE WAS A HARD START CONDITION, BUT NOT REALLY A THING THAT WAS PREDICTABLE. I FIXED A LEAK AT TANK SUPPLY, LIFT PUMP, AND LEAKING FUEL FILTER (PUROLATORS KNOWN LEAK AT O RING).
12. Have you used the block heater, and does this effect engine starting?(only try for starting problems) NOT THIS YEAR
13. During hard acceleration, do you have excessive black smoke? Yes/no NO
14. Do you have any unusual exhaust smoke issues? NO
15. Turbo check out (http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39368)- pass/fail PASS – OPEN FILTER CAN HEAR SPOOL UP
16. Do you have an EGR on the engine? (An F or an S engine code 8th VIN digit) F AT 8TH DIGIT
17. Indicate if you know if it’s a 1500, 2500, 2500HD, 3500, 3500HD. K3500
18. Indicate fuel that you are using: Bio-diesel, #2 Diesel, #1Diesel, SVO/WVO, other I WAS USING THE DIESEL SECRET SYSTEM AND THAT IS NO LONGER GOING TO BE USED – WHAT A NIGHTMARE!
18a. If running a VO (Veggie Oil fuel) setup, indicate details of your conversion (homemade, or packaged system) WVO FILTERED DOWN TO 2 MICRONS WATER FILTERED OUT AND KERO AT 10%, GAS 5%, DIESEL KLEEN, NAPTHA, MINERAL SPIRITS.
19. Are you using any fuel additives? If so, please list. SEE ABOVE
20. Please indicate geographic region you are in: (example: Texas or Canada) NE PHILLY
21. Do you have any service history available that might pertain to the problem you are having? NO JUST AS LISTED
22. Please indicate any modifications to the vehicle that might help us diagnose better. PMD/UP ON INTAKE COOLER #9 RESISTOR– SWAPPED OUT W/WORKING UNIT – NOT IT
23. Upon unscrewing the fuel cap (http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42338), do you have a large vacuum formed in the tank? yes/no NO – SINCE TRUCK IS DUMP, VAPOR RETURN LINE IS OPEN SO NO PRESSURE – FILLUP PIPE IS REDUCED TO SEVERAL INCHES ON TANK AS DUMP MUST BE RAISED TO FILL.
24. Location of PMD/FSD (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39436)? On the pump/remoted over intake/remoted out of engine bay (please specify placement specifically) REMOTE ON COOLER OVER INTAKE
24a. If remote mounted, describe wiring harness (homemade or purchased from a vendor?) VENDOR
24b. Indicate the location and condition of the FSD/IP grounding wire. GROUND WIRE RUNS BACK TO IP.
25. Are ALL glow plugs in proper working order as per this thread (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39182)? NO A COUPLE OF THEM ARE IN NEED OF NEW WIRES – WILL REPLACE

NO FUEL AT INJECTOR AS LISTED

I am wondering if fuel is being definitely cut off at the IP, since fuel is very much available at IP. This Fuel Solenoid may be tested, but the book I have from the Diesel Page is referring to a mechanical pump and now I have locted a picture of the FS a mill finish or chrome cylinder in front. Now it has 3 wires and I am reading a test to perform by direct wiring. I have an old IP to toy with and I have a handle on this, but am trying to track the problem. This sounds electrical and all fuses and connections have been checked but for the ignition switch. I want to isolate the problem before taking the shotgun out and shooting any more parts. I just need diredtion.....
Thanks in advance
Bob

1st things first. You need to add your signature by clicking "user cp" above. That way we know all the mods and after market parts you may be running. For example: What WVO system are you running, type of lift pump if not oem, k&n filter, relocted pmd? Things like that.

A couple of things I noticed. You have your pmd located on your exhaust manifold. That is the worst place you can put it. It will over heat and kill it there. It is even worse than being on the pump. I have mine mounted in my front bumper behind the licence plate on some heat sink. If I had to guess I would say your pmd is bad. Get a dipacto pmd and mount it out of the engine bay. Especially w/ wvo. wvo burns hotter than diesel so you engine compartment will be even hotter than on dino.

The next thing is you are blending gas, mineral spirits, and naptha (I don't know what naptha is). I can tell you that the gas and mineral spirits will erode the rubber in the IP. Even in small diluted amounts.

The quality of your WVO doesn't matter if you are filtering and dewatering properly. I have been blending wvo not using a wvo system for 30k miles now w/ no problems. The key is filtering and dewatering. All I blend is diesel and WVO.

You may have an IP prob however I would start w/ a new pmd and go from there.

Thanks Rodd for your input. FSD is on Plenum, not manifold. I think the Fuel Shutoff on the IP is either being shut down or a bad wire is the problem.

I am very interested in your WVO usage. I was using the Diesel Secret, which I think is just a dilution of the WVO. I was thinking of 50% dino and 50% WVO. What is your best performing ratio?

The gasoline and naphta may not mix too well with Diesel fuel. It makes the diesel even less lubricity.

PMD should be taken out all the way out of the engine compartment. Plenum is not good enough. The challenge with PMD inside is the heatsoak after engine is shutdown. Especially important if you are running WVO mix, etc.

Just my thought.

and.... if it really was motor oil in the bad batch of Chinese WVO it will burn off real easy. maybe it was some kind of degreaser they cleaned out the fryers with and it degreased the IP and something is scored from metal to metal contact.

Thanks Rodd for your input. FSD is on Plenum, not manifold. I think the Fuel Shutoff on the IP is either being shut down or a bad wire is the problem.

I am very interested in your WVO usage. I was using the Diesel Secret, which I think is just a dilution of the WVO. I was thinking of 50% dino and 50% WVO. What is your best performing ratio?

Diesel secret is no secret. There is no need for it. They have good advertising but it is over kill and can cause probs in your IP.

In the summer I run 10 gal diesel to 30 gal wvo filtered to 1 micron. In the winter I add diesel clean anti gell.

it should mix.....some guys are running 10 to 1.....wvo to e85 and not using any conversion sytem at all.

I am working on the 98 K3500 tomorrow after the rain goes away. Somewhere, someone said I can take out the Fuel Shut-off Solenoid and pull the plunger and put it back in to see if this is the problem. Is this crazy?

I am working on the 98 K3500 tomorrow after the rain goes away. Somewhere, someone said I can take out the Fuel Shut-off Solenoid and pull the plunger and put it back in to see if this is the problem. Is this crazy?
sounds crazy to me. but then again i think it is your IP. i wouldn't start pulling anything without knowledge of it, but then again that's just me. if you need it, i have an extra manual IP for a 6.2 that from what i hear can be fitted to the electronic ones. i'm pretty sure it will fit on my 93. GOOD LUCK! keep us posted.

Have somone turn the key ON (just on, not to crank it over or anything) while you hold your ear up to the front of the motor and listen for a click. The click is the fuel shutoff solenoid. If it doesnt click then it isnt working. I suspect if you ran veggie oil without heating it up that you probably are wrecking the IP's on all the trucks not just this one, its just this one is being more of a pain in the ass. Perhaps its IP is just defective. I agree get the PMD off the intake plenum. Maybe the PMD is the problem. I personally think its better off on the IP than it is on the intake. Mines still on the pump, when it goes, its gonna be moved to the bumper.

Here is an easy test for you to see if it is the IP or PMD. Un plug the optical sensor on top of the IP. Crank, crank, crank. It will take longer to start because the pump is being started in dumb mode. If it starts it is something on the IP that is wrong. When you do this you will it will throw a code don't worry.

GAS 5%, DIESEL KLEEN, NAPTHA, MINERAL SPIRITS.:eek::badidea:
I would be surprised if your IP is still playing.

The green stuff - Mold? AntiFreeze? I spent a couple of years working in China, and believe me - There's no telling what's in that batch of WVO. Could be anything -:t

Naptha = Lighter fluid
Gas and/or mineral spirits = Bad, VERY BAD

Thanks everyone.
Deejaaa - Thanks for offer - I may take you up on it. For now, if the IP will fire on a fouled Optic Sensor, then that is not my current problem as I have zero fuel at the injector. It is not the PMD - I swapped it (twice) from a runner. It must be the fuel cutoff. I did try the listening for the click (before I knew the actual location of the unit). Now I know that it is right out front and I have a spare Ip that I can play with and i see the unit and how it works. I will test the circuit at the fuse box and get my hands on it to test for the "click." Hotwire or pull the plunger at worst case and I will share my experience. I do appreciate all the help.

Anyone who needs home improvement advice (Roofing, Siding, Windows, Construction, Mold, Ventilation, etc.) - I can reciprocate.

Fuel cutoff is functioning correctly, getting power at key up, fuel is at the F Cutoff Solenoid - good clean diesel. Even tried gutting an old fuel cutoff solenoid and putting it in place even with the existing wired for feedback to the ECM and to no avail. Tried unplugging the Optic Sensor. NO FUEL AT THE INJECTORS! I have tried PMD/FSD swapping from running pulls, etc. ECM pulls - same. I am pretty sure the IP is toast, but I don't know too much about the insides. I know that fooling with an old one, when the optic sensor area is full of fuel and I turn the IP, it shoots fuel out of the line fittings. I don't understand this one!

I checked all the wires on the truck for the 100th time. This is a newly installed IP rebuilt, etc., with about 2K miles on it. I guess the green Chinese malaise killed it dead.

Hello! I posted a reply to you on the SVO forum as well, so I'm watching your problem in 2 places.

I agree, I think your IP is gone. The fact that you get no fuel might mean a snapped impeller shaft, not sure.

I suggest you call Heath Diesel tomorrow and ask to speak with Bill Heath. The guy is great at talking through a problem on a 6.5 and getting to the solution. I just bought a rebuilt IP from him last week, it will arrive in a few days.

I'm still somewhat skeptical that a few ounces of bad fuel left over after you drained the tank could make a new IP fail, I wonder if something else is going on, low fuel pressure or water in the wvo. Good luck!

I agree w/ dave. I have a feeling you had a lot of water in your wvo supply. Nothing kills an IP faster except the stuff that you added to it. Not to get down on you but diesel secret will work on older IP's like the cummins and detroit diesel's however the newer pumps in the 6.5, power strokes, and new cummins all have rubber in the pumps that the stuff that diesel secret tells you to do will kill an IP. Your other trucks may be fine for now but don't be surprised if something happens to them next.

I looked again at the wires and did find a braided ground wire on the firewall pass side. I fixed - n/g. Figured since we pused the truck to a different incline and only put 2 gals into tank that we were pulling air. Took off the tank top (access since truck was a dump) and only 1" or so was the level and comparing the supply line, coverage was low enough to suck air. I put in 4 more agllons to where we were 1/4 tank and 3+ inches. Put the tank back together and checked the filter **** and purculating air was evident. I took out the fuel solenoid shut-off and turned on the key and did get some bubbles. Air lock just does not make sense but we cranked away and cranked away and no fuel at the injectors. Has anyone had experience with Air Lock? It seems crazy because when you put in a New dry IP, it cranks away after a little while. Next, I guess I'll take off the Plenum for better access to the IP and take off the Optic Sensor cover and see what is up in side the IP.

Any advise you guys have to offer greatly appreciated.

If you have air in the fuel system it will take about 15 minutes of cranking 15 seconds wait 1 minute, crank 15 seconds wait 1 minute......Also you will need to have a battery jump box or jumper cables available because the batteries will die.

Fill your filter canister w/ diesel clean and screw the lid back on. Crank, crank, crank. It should start a little quicker.

Jump your lift pump, or just operate the key a few times, with the fuel filter bleed air at the top of the filter open, make sure you are getting fuel out of it. Close it, open the t-valve, and again operate the lift pump to make sure you have fuel flowing at the t-valve, meaning your lift pump is pumping OK. If both of these give fuel flow, you are not sucking air and are delivering fuel to the IP.

I still think your IP is toast, and impeller may not be working at all. Did you call Heath Diesel?

I did not call Heath yet but I will. No air is gettting in and I have cranked forever and I think I ruled air out now. Diesel Pro told me it may be the encoder. Any advice?

Bob

Thanks Diesel Pro. I am going to remove the Plenum and take the top off that area of the pump. I have an old one that I have taken apart and I know that that area should be full of diesel. Do you have any advise for cleaning the encoder and/or diagram available, etc. I am particularly interested in the metering control as that is the last code thrown and I am wondering if the fuel metering control may have shut it down.

Thanks
Bob[quote=chevybobgreaser]I am not sure as to what the encoder is. Please advise.
Thanks
Bob

[quote=DieselPro][quote=chevybobgreaser]Hi Diesel Pro
my new thread:
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2836331&posted=1#post2836331
Your help would be most appreciated
Bob


.....................................
I saw that you posted that I may remove the plunger in the fuel solenoid on the IP of 6.5 diesel. Is this correct?

Solenoid valve can be removed.

Most cases the encoder is ruined. Sometimes worse.

encoder is the correct name for optic sensor in the injection pump. More than likely it's coated with bio/veggie oil matter and can no longer read the data wheel.

Well I tried the voltmeter test of the terminal on the PMD/FSD today. I started with 'A' and the reading was nil (.002V). I also plugged it back in to see if I did something wrong and I just shaved enough insulation to try reading the black wire on "A" while plugged in. Still .002V.

When I had my initial problem of a stall and no start, I plugged in the OBDII and got a code referring to "manufacturer computer and outputs," along with the Crank Pos Sensor. I traded ECM's with a runner and to no avail. I swapped back to original and after the truck sat, it started and ran back home short run. It never started again. I tried swapping PMD's from a runner, etc. Anyway, today we put back the runner and it would not run. I tested it with the same method and got .002V.

Any ideas??

Oh, I have tried unplugging the Opticalk sensor and no good - still no fuel at the injector. I have gone over everything I can think of with this, and now it looks electrical?

Oh BTW I can't get Bill at Heath. He is very busy but I will try again Monday

I think if it was an optical sensor problem only it would still run in 'limp' mode, which is no power but still gets you home. I think the same might apply to the PMD but I have never tried unplugging it completely to see what happens, maybe somebody else can comment here. Have you tried unplugging your battery to clear out all the codes in the computer too? Sometimes its as simple as that.

'A' black wire runs to injection pump control and I get .002V. ECM bad??
photo schematic from other post (http://fourseasonsroofingandsiding.com/PMD.wiring.jpg)

Yep I had a 96 with a loose battery cable that used to only have first gear until I cleared the domputer and retightened the connection. I tried taking the battery cables off but N/G

Thanks

Bob

OK
I did the test on the PMD plug for the computer outputs.
The 'A' pin failed. The other two passed. I know that 'A' leads to the fuel injection control in the computer.

I swapped another computer from a runner and it failed also. As I stated before, the runner doesn't run any longer. I am going to test it tonight. Is it possible my truck could have blown a computer from a running truck? I had done the same swap before and when I returned it - It would not run.

I will be working on the ground on the rear of the passenger side manifold, replacing it. After talking to Heath, I was encouraged to check the grounds, especially since another computer had same result. Sounds like wires??

Grounds are definatley a maintenence routine on the 6.5.......bad ones will cause all "Kinds" of problems.....PIA though.

Good Luck

I replaced the rear passenger side ground today (the one on the intake manifold near the firewall that runs down to the frame - where the ecm grounds). I performed the ecm Security Clear routine. I got a 1.8 - 2V reading on the 'A' terminal of the PMD/FSD and also fuel spurts at the injectors. This is a major milestone. The truck did not start despite new batteries with a jump. I think the air buildup combined with the residual green stuff from the bad fuel is keeping it from firing. I do have glow plug issues, so I plugged it in and will return to it later. I filled the filter bowl with ATF and churned it into the IP and injectors and am hoping it will clean away enough to see it to a start.

Also, the runner that had same problem after the ecm swap did start after the Security Clear routine. I think that was the problem with both trucks ( along with my fuel problem ).

'A' terminal is the green wire - sorry

IT RUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Today I was able to give the truck some quality time. I went and picked up 2 ft of small engine 1/4" id CLEAR HOSE. I installed the hose between the filter and the IP to rule out bubbles, etc. I cracked the 3 injectors on the driver's side and jumped the truck and cranked for a bit. I took off the filter top and used paper towel to empty the filter bowl. I filled it with ATF and closed it back up and cranked for a bit. I did that twice. The truck sounded like it wanted to fire on 5 cylinders. I went out and got a gallon of ATF and filled the bowl 1/2 full and capped it and cranked it a bit and as the red fluid came down the clear hose, I knew it would clear out what ailed it. It started! It ran til the red color went away. I repeated this process a few times and the truck would stall as soon as the green diesel got to the cylinders. The last time I held it at 1500 - 2000 rpms and it ran until I let off and it would not restart on diesel. I feel this is the fuel. Even though I have good clean diesel, that green residual must be hanging around. I will purge the tank and drop it this time. The truck is a dump pickup and access is no problem, but I have not yet dropped the tank completely. I'll have to clean it out and start afresh I guess. Thanks all for input!

Keep us informed...I have a 1996 Burban on grease, I'm watching your project closely...

Well, it is dead. It ran on the ATF I think because the IP is toast after only 2K believe it or not. It is possible I got a bad rebuilt but no warranty since I ran WVO blend. I have a marine super output mechanical IP on order and will replace and get the tranny working with it. It is a challenge but no longer can I deal with the electronic stuff. I think I have to replace the lines also. I am doing the IP, lines, glow plugs, and tranny control. Then I am going to heated WVO 2 tank system. I have researched and these guys are having the very least of troubles. I will take extensive notes and pictures so that others may benefit from my experience.

Make sure you get all the bugs out BEFORE you invest time and money in a two tank VO system. VO will not solve any of the issues you are having and in fact will exacerbate the ones you already have. Good luck:)

Make sure you get all the bugs out BEFORE you invest time and money in a two tank VO system. VO will not solve any of the issues you are having and in fact will exacerbate the ones you already have. Good luck:)


I have to assume that you are referring to the choice, and processing of product. Point well taken. I am making big changes.