So I stopped off at a different gas station than usual in the middle of the night last night, and topped off my tank with about 8 gallons of fuel. Stupid, I know. It started up in two seconds from cold today, and I got about a mile and a half down down the road to work with the engine behaving as normal, when it instantly started sputtering like crazy, and putting out a huge cloud of white smoke.

Thing is, I got it up to 65 mph on the freeway, and another 5 miles to my workplace, but it put out that white smoke the entire time. Didn't run any warmer than usual or anything...

I'm thinking I got ahold of some crappy fuel with water in it. Checked the oil, there is no evidence of water in there, so that is a relief. The fact that it started putting out the smoke and sputtering instantly, after starting up and running just fine, leads me to believe that the fuel is bad...the fuel that was already in the line and pump was fine, and that's why it ran normally for a little bit before the problems started.

Any suggestions as to a good brand of water dispersing additive, like Stanadyne, before I get to purging the tank ? How much water could conceivably be in there, for it to still run ? A few gallons ?

TIA.

did you drain the filter yet to see how much water was in there? It takes only a very small amout of free water to seize the injection pump so there is no way you would still be driving if you got that much water.
Also, was the "water in fuel" light on?

paul

Water in fuel light is no good...it comes on and off almost at random. It was off today.

I've been at work all night, maybe I can get to it and change the filter later on...I picked up a new filter and some Power Service "Diesel 9-11."

i had the same problem with my dodge last winter after fuelling. turned out it was a sticky injector, but it would start working again at highway speed. putting in some diesel additive smoothed it back out again.

OK, I changed the box filter, purged a little fuel, and added that Power Service 911, but it was dark and I couldn't see the fuel that well to check for water. Once again, rough running, much more so at idle, and lots of white smoke. It will still do 60mph easy on a huge bridge.

Might be my imagination, but it ran a little better after 5 miles or so. It definitely ran better at highway speed. Tomorrow afternoon I'll actually bleed the whole system with pressurized air, maybe bleed the injector lines, look at some fuel in a clear jar in the daylight...

Man, I hope this is just bad fuel or air bubbles. It was my understanding that diesel engines rarely started running rough in a split second 15 minutes after starting from cold just fine.

OK, today I pressurized the entire system and bled out a little air, but not a major amount or anything. I opened the spigot on the fuel drain line at the front of the engine, and got about two gallons of fuel out of that, again with the pressurized air at the IP return line. The fuel doesn't look weird or anything, but I did add 2/3 of a jug of that Power Service 911 last night.

Opened each injector line, and it would "chug" more roughly each time, so the injectors seem to be working normally.

Took it for a 20 mile run on the highways. It still runs rough at idle, almost like a cylinder is missing, but will do 65 mph smoothly. Less power getting there, but it will cruise on the highway easily once at speed. The huge cloud of white vapor and smoke is still there, and now the water in fuel light comes on quite a bit at highway speed. Temperature is as normal.

Any ideas short of purging all 30 gallons of fuel ? Anyone ?

I guess next time I have a night off I'll have a look at the lift pump, inspect the pushrod...I replaced it some time back, but you never know.

Anyone at all ?

What happened to all of the helpful people that used to populate this board 2 years ago ?

Guess I'll just purge all $140 worth of fuel...

i wouldn't dump it if i were you. If you have an extra electric lift pump laying around you could plumb it into the line and pump it out into a clear container and see what it looks like. If it is clear and has that yellow/green look then the fuel may not be the problem.
If you used the drain valve in the fuel filter and caught the fuel into a bottle and checked it out and did not see any water than that may not have been the problem.

You can also buy stuff that tests for water in diesel - i think it is some kind of stuff you brush on and dip and it changes color if water is present. They sell it at places that sell bulk fuels, like home heating oil, etc. I would test a sample of the fuel with that stuff before pumping it all out.

i still think if you got that much water the truck would not be running at all now due to a seized pump.

Also, i have run wvo for several years and in the early days i did not really de-water very well and i know for a fact that i ran some very wet oil through it and had none of the symptoms you describe.

Paul

Well, thanks for the tips, Paul. I was thinking that it was the fuel, as it happened so suddenly, and I had just filled up.

I bought a lift pump today, as well as clear line for the IP return. I'll replace that tomorrow as cheap preventative maintenance anyway. I also have a bunch of Viton line here, I might as well replace all of the old rubber lines coming off of the injectors while I'm at it, look for leaks again. Strongest bio I've run is B20, all top shelf commercial stuff from a giant truckstop.

What on Earth would cause the motor to suddenly start running real rough and pumping out clouds of white vapor and smoke ? Can an air leak do that, or can an IP suddenly go bad or something ? Again, no water in the oil, so hopefully it's not a head gasket...and I doubt it would do 65 on the freeway with a blown gasket. At least, I think...

Rough idle and the WIF light coming on can be caused by insufficient fuel supply like from a bad lift pump.

I changed out the lift pump today...still runs rough and puts out the smoke. When I again pressurized the system for air bubbles, I noticed that, after a while, a little patch of bubbles would flow out of the drain hose from the filter housing, every seven seconds (I timed it) just like clockwork.

Got a better look at the fuel in the daylight...nothing at all wrong with it.

So I have an air leak somewhere in the system. Guess I'll spend tonight replacing hoses and clamps. The ones I can find with a lamp, anyway...

Don't go by what comes out of the filter, it can easily mislead you. It's better to check the return from the IP.

Can't find any leaks, but I don't have a lot of light.

Maybe it's one of the injectors ? Those can go bad all of a sudden, right, and leak air into the system ?

Hell with it...I just sent away for some nozzles from Rockauto. Might as well replace 'em...the more I think about it, the more I'm leaning towards a stuck injector at this point...I've eliminated a bunch of other variables by now.

Of course, getting the injectors out and so forth will probably take up a whole weekend...

You'd probably have to pressurize the lines for a leak to become visible. I'd install a fuel pressure gauge in the line going to the IP to check the fuel pressure, despite the new lift pump. Without a gauge, it's still guesswork.

To make working on the injectors faster, you could get new return lines and an injector socket. The advantage is that you can just cut off the old return lines instead of having to take off the return line clips. Get 45 degree nose pliers with a long handle and straight nose pliers and small pliers to deal with the return line clips. The return lines were the worst and most time consuming part when I replaced injectors. It shouldn't take all weekend ... And if you use return lines that need clips, get a set of new clips. The old clips can easily break.

Hell with it...I just sent away for some nozzles from Rockauto. Might as well replace 'em...the more I think about it, the more I'm leaning towards a stuck injector at this point...I've eliminated a bunch of other variables by now.

Of course, getting the injectors out and so forth will probably take up a whole weekend...

if you are talking about rebuilding the injectors here is a thread that may help:
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=209593&highlight=INJECTOR+REPLACEMENT

i don't think it would take that long - plus you could do one side at a time. Also, you could try idling it and cracking one injector line at a time and see if anything changes - if you have a bad injector you might eventually find it that way. I plan to do the same thing because i think i have a bad injector as well.
Also, you should definitely replace the injection pump return line at the top of the pump with a clear hose temporarily and watch it while it is idling to see if there are any air bubbles - that would tell you for sure if air is the problem or not.

Paul

This may sound stupid, and probably is, but check you rediator holding tank. My experience on a Cummins and white smoke was a cracked head gasket.

if you have a cracked cylinder head, it could be burning enough coolant to give you your white smoke, but no increase in temp and no water in oil. Has your coolant level changed at all? Just speaking from experience from all the old farm tractors we have.
good luck,
robert

if you have a cracked cylinder head, it could be burning enough coolant to give you your white smoke, but no increase in temp and no water in oil. Has your coolant level changed at all? Just speaking from experience from all the old farm tractors we have.
good luck,
robert

No change in coolant level.

I checked the reservoir again today after it had been idling for a while, shaking and smoking. No bubbles or anything.

Starts instantly from cold...and will do 60 mph without breaking a sweat. Doubt it would do that with a blown gasket or cracked head. At least I hope that isn't the problem.

Getting the head gaskets replaced would cost, what, $1000 or more ?!?

Anyway, the cloud of white smoke that starts after idling for a minute appears to be only on the driver's side exhaust, for whatever that's worth.

Hmm, where is High Sierra, that guy knows these old engines backwards and forwards ?

if its dual exhaust, a bad head gasket will make it smoke one side, a little coolant is a lot of smoke. a bad injector causing smoke will usually make iy run rough till you get the rev's up

if its dual exhaust, a bad head gasket will make it smoke one side, a little coolant is a lot of smoke. a bad injector causing smoke will usually make iy run rough till you get the rev's up

It definitely smooths out when I rev it up...smooths out a great deal as a matter of fact, at highway speed.

Got it good and warm, drove it around some. Still starts instantly from cold. Still pumping out the smoke, running rough, much more so at idle. Checked the coolant again while running, it doesn't look abnormal.

What size bubbles would a blown head gasket produce ? Pea-size, right ? I see nothing in the reservoir besides the normal tiny little pin-prick sized specks swirling around occasionally, that could be particles of something, or could they be air ? I can't tell.

Any other sure signs of blown gasket ?

So, I guess the next step is a compression check. You have to pull all of the injectors at once to do this, just like pulling all the plugs from a gas engine, right ? Unplug the pink IP wire, unplug the glow plugs controller...I've checked compression on gas engines plenty, but never a diesel.

Sure signs of a bad head gasket are bubbles in the radiator neck opening & RAPID pressurization of the cooling system within 1-2 minutes of startup, not necessarily water in the oil, unexplainable coolant loss, & any 6.2 or 6.5 that's ever been run hard or hot (which in a bus would be both, IMHO) is VERY prone to overheat #8 cylinder (that's the passenger side rear cylinder), never enough coolant flow there (unless you put in the dual t-stat & high flow stuff from a later 6.5

Sure signs of a bad head gasket are bubbles in the radiator neck opening & RAPID pressurization of the cooling system within 1-2 minutes of startup, not necessarily water in the oil, unexplainable coolant loss, & any 6.2 or 6.5 that's ever been run hard or hot (which in a bus would be both, IMHO) is VERY prone to overheat #8 cylinder (that's the passenger side rear cylinder), never enough coolant flow there (unless you put in the dual t-stat & high flow stuff from a later 6.5

Oh, I started some other threads here as I found out what was wrong. Turned out it was the plastic rocker arm retainer buttons. Two had broken, and one rocker arm came loose, bending the push rod underneath that goes to #7. Replaced push rod and buttons, replaced injector nozzles while I was at it, and it runs normally. 400 psi per cylinder, give or take a little.

I've never been able to get the temp gauge over halfway up, even when I floor it up a steep grade.

Check your air cleaner,if its dirty it could be the cause of low power and white smoke.Had this happen to both my diesel engines on my boat last year.The air filters hadnt been cleaned in awhile.Both engines on startup blew out white smoke.After warming up no smoke,I cleaned both filters and now no smoke on startup or running.Im running SVO with unleaded gas.1 gallon to 12 gallons of SVO.Both my engines were built in 1968 and have 5000 hours on them.