I Have junked out my '82 K10, I basically just stripped it down and junked the frame, which was pretty much broke in 2. So I have a '83 Chevy 3/4 ton 4x4 frame in very good shape (axles are either 3.42 or 3.73). I'm going to use my cab, engine/trans/tcase out of the '82. This is going to be my main towing rig, hauling 5-7K failry often and possibly as much as 12K. I have been pondering the idea of putting in an SM465 since that's what I really want. However with time and money it would be easier just to use the automatic I have now. The only mods I may do are injectors with bigger tips and turn up the pump (a friend did this on his suburban and it GOES).

So what would you do? I can get a 4 spd and 205 tcase for $150 and I think I have all brackets for the clutch pedal. I'm hoping to stay under $700 for the entire project. How much time do you think the tranny conversion stuff would take? I want it to be running before winter, and I have nights and some weekends to work on it. Right now I'm in the process of painting the frame and putting engine mounts in, ect.
Sorry for a long post, but this is a project I have wanted to do for a long time. If I build it as an auto, I have an '84 3/4 ton that I want to convert to a 6.2 4 spd. I have 2 (soon to be 3) 6.2s with ALL wiring, basically everything to convert a gas truck to diesel.

I Have junked out my '82 K10, I basically just stripped it down and junked the frame, which was pretty much broke in 2. So I have a '83 Chevy 3/4 ton 4x4 frame in very good shape (axles are either 3.42 or 3.73). I'm going to use my cab, engine/trans/tcase out of the '82. This is going to be my main towing rig, hauling 5-7K failry often and possibly as much as 12K. I have been pondering the idea of putting in an SM465 since that's what I really want. However with time and money it would be easier just to use the automatic I have now. The only mods I may do are injectors with bigger tips and turn up the pump (a friend did this on his suburban and it GOES).

So what would you do? I can get a 4 spd and 205 tcase for $150 and I think I have all brackets for the clutch pedal. I'm hoping to stay under $700 for the entire project. How much time do you think the tranny conversion stuff would take? I want it to be running before winter, and I have nights and some weekends to work on it. Right now I'm in the process of painting the frame and putting engine mounts in, ect.
Sorry for a long post, but this is a project I have wanted to do for a long time. If I build it as an auto, I have an '84 3/4 ton that I want to convert to a 6.2 4 spd. I have 2 (soon to be 3) 6.2s with ALL wiring, basically everything to convert a gas truck to diesel.

use the 4speed u will be alot happier

Yep, if you want the 4 speed use the 4 speed. At this point I firmly believe you should build what you want rather than settling, if you settle you'll never be quite happy with that part. Installing that tranny isn't that hard.

If you have the clutch linkage and the tranny all you should need is a flywheel and clutch. Brand new those cost about $200-$250, but you could probably get them used for less (I'd go for new on the clutch, but the flywheel you could get used anyway).

One note coming from somebody who wanted a manual and put in a manual - If you do a lot of city driving you WILL hate it. I hate driving mine in town very frequently (I get lazy, I often just leave the thing in second gear and just use the clutch in the city, but I get tired of even doing that ):h).

Also, the tranny you've got is probably the 700R4 since it came from a 1/2 ton... Frankly, that's no transmission to tow with in stock form. You'd be better off spending a little extra and putting the 4 speed in now.

I almost forgot- I received a 6.2 MT flywheel for free a few weeks ago. I have had all manuals except for my '82 K10 and I don't mind them, even in the city.
I think I may set back my goal and not plan on being done with the truck until spring, and just drive my POS F150 thru the winter, but that way when I am done, it will be exactly as I want (4 speed, possibly a flatbed, ect.)
BTW, that '82 had a 700R4 from factory but it had been swapped out for a TH350 before I bought it.

One note coming from somebody who wanted a manual and put in a manual - If you do a lot of city driving you WILL hate it. I hate driving mine in town very frequently (I get lazy, I often just leave the thing in second gear and just use the clutch in the city, but I get tired of even doing that ):h).



Everybody told me that when I first started driving, and all these years later I'd still rather drive a manual!;)

Just My Opinion. Trucks with auto tranny's are worthless to me untill it gets the stick.:eek:

You'll be better off with the manual. You need all the power you can get from it, and an auto prevents you from just that and also comes up with overheating problems. I agree with that an auto has its advantages when you are in stop and go traffic and that it might have advantages for 4wheeling, but for anything else, they suck.

And I still wish I had a manual ...


PS: I drove my wifes car today, it's a gasser and it's awful because of the automatic. Try to accelerate like from 60 to 70, you have to floor it because you push the pedal and nothing happens, then it takes about 3 seconds for the transmission to figure out what gear to put in, then it revs up to 6000 RPM while finally accelerating, but then it takes another 1.5 seconds or so to shift to a higher gear. It's perfectly fine, though, that's the way they build them --- once I had a Nissan Maxima that had the same problem. It even has a setting where you can push the shifter up or down to manually shift it. I tried that out today and it takes a bit more than twice the time to shift than it would take me with a manual (and I'm not fast), that setting is useless. Dunno, seems like Asians don't know how to build automatic transmissions. With a manual, it would be way better.

That's a modern car thing. I believe it's a durability feature, designed to protect the transmission and engine from shifting too frequently if somebody has a bit of a bad driving habit.

I agree the manual is nicer to drive, I'm just lazy... Some days I'd just rather have an auto.

Only automatic I own is in my '65 Corvair... Talk about a funny transmission... 2 speed, it's a scaled down modified powerglide. If you floor it you can go 50 mph in first gear...

the old powerglide, lol. hammer it down and it'll throw you in the back seat when it downshifts, even with the old 283 i had. or go around a corner too fast and it would downshift. those were fun days. lol

Honestly if you have all the parts in hand and ready to go it will not take long to actually out the tranny in and be driving. My problem I always had was the pedal assembly, seemed like getting in to the weird position for me and geting it connected took hours. I know it didn't but when you have a bad back and get in a position that sometimes requires it is hard.
Transmission itself timewise should only take MAYBE 4 hours if all goes well and not getting in a big hurry either. I have a buddy that can take a tranny out and have one back in in 50 minutes(with all the bolts in it too, lol). He is good but to get him to help on one of my vehicles is almost impossible, he works on vehicles as a past time and makes money doing it. Claims he doesn't want to work on them all the time and when he has off from work he wants to relax, not help friends work on their cars. Can't blame him there.
I am wanting to take out my turbo 400 and throw it over the hill and put in a 5 speed. That is my next project after making the truck run better.

Yeah, a trans removal/install, bolt in no mods is typically ~50 min - 1 hr 15 min, way less with no body on the chassis. It's the clutch that takes the time...

the old powerglide, lol. hammer it down and it'll throw you in the back seat when it downshifts, even with the old 283 i had. or go around a corner too fast and it would downshift. those were fun days. lol

I have to laugh... That's about the best description of my transmission as I've heard yet. :D

The newer cars and trucks have electronic transmissions in them and the technology isn't quite perfected. They are typically slow to react in comparison to the older fluid pressure operated trannys. Reason being, the computer communications (input signals, computer evaluation of those inputs, then output signals, and last mechanical work) are still slow when you factor in the fact that there are constant changes thru the operation of the vehicle and that they use electronicly driven mechanical devices. Granted, the overall communications speed has more than tripled in the last few model years,....but they still cannot react as quickly as mechanical or pressurized fluid controls. They'll get there eventually, and all the while they are working on that, they'll be adding sensors, control modules, relays, solenoids, etc.. Ya know more stuff to fail and causing and increased population of bald mechanics cause they're tearing their hair out:lol:

The SM465 transmission kicks ass!

My recently-retired tow rig has the same Sm465/NP205 combo you're considering. I was amazed at how much I could wring out of the gas 350 in front of that setup. The "granny" low makes for nice, pain-free starts when you're towing. And granny gear, coupled with the transfer case's low range (even if it is only 1.97:1), turns your truck into a mountain goat! The only hangup is that there's no overdrive.

I'm at a crossroads with where to go on the Crew Cab. I can either adapt a 205 to my salvage-yard 4L80E, or find an NV4500 and spend an arm and a leg. I really want overdrive...sigh.

The SM465 transmission kicks ass!

My recently-retired tow rig has the same Sm465/NP205 combo you're considering. I was amazed at how much I could wring out of the gas 350 in front of that setup. The "granny" low makes for nice, pain-free starts when you're towing. And granny gear, coupled with the transfer case's low range (even if it is only 1.97:1), turns your truck into a mountain goat! The only hangup is that there's no overdrive.

I'm at a crossroads with where to go on the Crew Cab. I can either adapt a 205 to my salvage-yard 4L80E, or find an NV4500 and spend an arm and a leg. I really want overdrive...sigh.

I am also a big fan of the the SM465 (as well as the and NP435's and SM420's) I've always felt they would be the perfect transmission with OD. I'm going with the NP435 in my dually, and after I get it all together, I am planning on buying a Gear Vendors OD for it.

I'm really considering putting a sm465 or my nv4500 in my suburban

Reason being, the computer communications (input signals, computer evaluation of those inputs, then output signals, and last mechanical work) are still slow when you factor in the fact that there are constant changes thru the operation of the vehicle and that they use electronicly driven mechanical devices.


How could the electronics possibly be so slow with what they can do nowadays? I can see it for 20 years ago, like when they came up with ABS systems that took about 10 or 15 years before they got them working ... the early ones were nothing but dangerous ... but not for the last 10 years.

A transmission/engine/car like that drives me crazy. It shouldn't have to shift for what I'm doing in the first place, and it shouldn't take ages to shift. If it's a feature to make them last longer, they would only achieve the opposite of that. It shifts itself to death, and I shift them manually even if they are not designed for that --- it doesn't help much, but a bit. It's also bad for mileage because I eventually keep shifting it between 1st and 2nd gear in city traffic all the time.

The option to shift it manually would probably make it fail pretty early. I start from a stop in 1st gear, accelerate, back off of the pedal and shift, wait for it to shift as long as it would take me with a manual, then I'm back on the pedal again. The result is that the transmission still hasn't shifted up and is apparently still busy shifting, so it goes back to 1st gear after a while, while the pedal keeps going down; then after some more time it finally makes a hard shift to 2nd at high RPMs. With a manual, I'd already be in 3rd or 4th gear by then. Same is for the other gears.

If I were to buy a car from a dealer that acted like that, I'd tell them to either fix it or to take it back. They are not driveable when they are like that. But I've seen that only on Asian and German cars yet, the American cars/transmissions don't do it.

How could the electronics possibly be so slow with what they can do nowadays? I can see it for 20 years ago, like when they came up with ABS systems that took about 10 or 15 years before they got them working ... the early ones were nothing but dangerous ... but not for the last 10 years.

A transmission/engine/car like that drives me crazy. It shouldn't have to shift for what I'm doing in the first place, and it shouldn't take ages to shift. If it's a feature to make them last longer, they would only achieve the opposite of that. It shifts itself to death, and I shift them manually even if they are not designed for that --- it doesn't help much, but a bit. It's also bad for mileage because I eventually keep shifting it between 1st and 2nd gear in city traffic all the time.

The option to shift it manually would probably make it fail pretty early. I start from a stop in 1st gear, accelerate, back off of the pedal and shift, wait for it to shift as long as it would take me with a manual, then I'm back on the pedal again. The result is that the transmission still hasn't shifted up and is apparently still busy shifting, so it goes back to 1st gear after a while, while the pedal keeps going down; then after some more time it finally makes a hard shift to 2nd at high RPMs. With a manual, I'd already be in 3rd or 4th gear by then. Same is for the other gears.

If I were to buy a car from a dealer that acted like that, I'd tell them to either fix it or to take it back. They are not driveable when they are like that. But I've seen that only on Asian and German cars yet, the American cars/transmissions don't do it.
We are behind asians and germans as far as electronic control in trannys in all but the newest of vehicles. Untill the last year or two, most of our trannys still had some hydraulic control in the trannys. Like I said, the fully electronic trans are not quite perfected yet, better than when they first introduced electronics to the transmission, but you watch and wait. 5 years from now, they will work much better than today.

Dunno, the Nissan Maxima was an '91 afair, the Hyunday is a 2001. They both have the same problem with the transmission, but the Hyunday is worse. Maybe they'll be even worser in 5 years?

Dunno, the Nissan Maxima was an '91 afair, the Hyunday is a 2001. They both have the same problem with the transmission, but the Hyunday is worse. Maybe they'll be even worser in 5 years?
LOL,.......maybe

Automatics don't like torque. If, instead of holding a gear, the transmission downshifts, it reduces torque and therefore is theoretically easier on the transmission. That's usually why they set them up that way. Shifting more frequently doesn't hurt anything if there's little torque involved...

It may not hurt the transmission, but taking so long to shift kills the performance and makes the vehicle undriveable ... Dunno, why do autos have so many problems? One would think that they could finally build good ones after 50 or so years of learning how to do that ... And look at the people with the Allisons, they still have the same worries, if not problems. Where's the improvement?

It may not hurt the transmission, but taking so long to shift kills the performance and makes the vehicle undriveable ... Dunno, why do autos have so many problems? One would think that they could finally build good ones after 50 or so years of learning how to do that ... And look at the people with the Allisons, they still have the same worries, if not problems. Where's the improvement?
IN CASE YOU DIDN'T KNOW... the major auto manufacturers have had in employ since the '70's, engineers whos function it is to under design, or design flaws into the components of a vehicle, so that they will fail more often. Their problem was they weren't selling enough new vehicles when they were building them to last 20 yrs. So they decided they wanted people buying a car every 10 yrs., then 8, then 5 you get the idea. They surmised that if "the people" had enough problems with their vehicle they would go out and buy themselves a brand new one.....genius really....it has worked. The only reason I know about this is that I got to know some corporate people with one of the manufacturers and was slipped a document that is not available to the dealerships, much less to the public (I had to promise a friend that I wouldn't get them in trouble with it, if ya know what I mean). A while after I received this document, I actually met and talked in depth with an individual that had worked as one of these engineers for one of the other manufacturers. I'm not saying our vehicles are junk...but just imagine if the vehicles we have today were built as solidly as they were in the '50's and '60's. In most recent of years though, its seemed to have caught up with them, as now they are trying to put the quality back in'm to keep the asians and euros from taking their market.

Yeah, I know they do that, but not to what extend ... And it backfires, like I wouldn't want to have a Duramax because I don't want to spend $3000 to replace injectors or not to be able to work on it myself, and I wouldn't want to spend the fortune it must cost to rebuild an Allison. I'd buy it used anyway, and since dealer prices are insane, I won't even buy parts from them, so the manufacturers probably don't care --- but it might lower the resale value and keep people from buying them new ...

Yeah, I know they do that, but not to what extend ... And it backfires, like I wouldn't want to have a Duramax because I don't want to spend $3000 to replace injectors or not to be able to work on it myself, and I wouldn't want to spend the fortune it must cost to rebuild an Allison. I'd buy it used anyway, and since dealer prices are insane, I won't even buy parts from them, so the manufacturers probably don't care --- but it might lower the resale value and keep people from buying them new ...
Imagine Lee,...If you had the money that one of those new trucks cost to put into yours.......That thing would be better than new and last forever.

Lee, I know we've gone over this before, and I still maintain that automatics are not problematic on the basis that they are automatics. Modern cars are just lame, it's not becaus they have automatics, it's just that the cars are lame. God only knows I've driven enough of them now, both manual and automatic, and lame is the best word I can think of. I drive a lot of cars for work, we do a lot of work for several dealers in the area, so I've gotten a feel for a lot of these cars... GM, I think I've driven nearly everything they made in the last 20 years, from cavaliers and venture vans to P and G series vans, camaros, cobalts, envoys, trailblazers, tahoes, suburbans... Oh yeah, G6s, grand prix, grand am, achievas, auroras, aleros, intrigues, all the different Buicks which are all the same car, aztecs, rendezvous... I think you get the point, over the summer I drove at least 5 different cars a day, often a dozen or more. They're all the same thing. They're all transportation, nothing more. Some are faster than others, some more comfortable, and some more versatile. Bottom line though... They're made for people who don't pay attention. The customer is a person who will only care what their car is doing if it's making a noise that sounds like something is broken or if the radio or air conditioning quits working. Beyond that, they don't care... They can't tell. The vast majority of drivers know nothing about their cars. I've had people come to me for repairs who honestly did not know what model of car they owned.

The whole auto industry is aware of this... Manufacturers, dealers, service and repair, towing. They all use it to their advantage too... The manufacturers can make a car that's lame (I can't think of another word), and sell it like it's the bomb. Look at the cobalt... It's a restyled cavalier. They're selling it like it's something sporty though... Making a supercharged model (lame too by the way)... Dealers can sell anything with cupholders, the more you pay the more cupholders you get. Service companies have it made - they don't even have to advertise, people will come to them and basically open their wallet and say how much do you want. Towing companies are the same way...

I think the best possible example of this might have been the 2000 Chevy venture that got towed in to my shop for a rattle. Yes, seriously, I kid you not. On top of that, it was towed a long way - the tow bill was over $200. When it got to the shop we had a hard time finding the rattle - we used the thing to run errands... We finally noticed a light rattle in the rear of the van, it was very light, sounded like a tin can just tapping something, I lifted it up and found an exhaust shield loose on the rear section of the exhaust. We simply took a pair of tinsnips and cut it off.

That's why I like older cars... They're not as lame... And back then, they used to set automatics up to be at least slightly performance oriented.

Now that this thread is WAY off topic...

All very interesting stuff. However, I may end up compromising and putting my Th350 in this thing for 2 very important reasons- cheaper and will be on the road quicker. It would be really nice to have a diesel truck again. I think I can live with the automatic for the time being. Maybe once the tranny goes I'll convert it to an SM465, but for now this will do. I wont really have to tow much during the winter. Plus a lot of my budget for this project will go to a new IP (the engine wouldn't even run that last few days it was in that truck)and maybe new injectors. I'll post up a few pics of the frame later this week. Hoping to have drivetrain in by next weekend and cab the week after that.

I'm still considering keeping my ford truck around after the 6.2 is done (off topic, o well). Besides being a half ton I can pull 7K fairly easy, taking about 6/10 of a mile to get up to 55MPH at 3/4 throttle. Towing is SO MUCH nicer with a stick. My dream truck is an early '90s K2500 6.5 5spd.
I haven't got everything thought out yet, just tossin ideas around.

back in 87 my dad bought a new 6..2 with a 4 speed and 4.10 gears after a year we install a gear venders over drive . it lets you split every gear. we still have this pickup on the farm and it gets driven some. even though my 93 ctd pulls better the cab on that 87 is way less rattles and issues.

That overdrive would really help with a 6.2.

I got 4 free tires for my project truck. They are 265/75/16 Trail Cutter radials. There is still some tread left, they are A LOT better than the bald 215/85/16s that are on the '83 frame now. I was thinking- maybe my injection pump isnt bad, maybe its the lift pump? I've heard a lot of people say go to an electric lift pump. All the ones I've had are short lived. how much does a good one cost? Where can I get a blockoff plate?

A Holley Red is about $95--$120, that's where good electrical lift pumps start. I got my blockoff plate from autozone; they have them in the gas section for $11.

However, if you get a good electrical lift pump, you'll probably find that the model 80 filter (if you have one) is somewhat restrictive and that upgrading the filters is a good idea ...

Is the model 80 filter the box-looking one (factory)? Mine has been upgraded to spin-on filters- 1 on the firewall and one right behind the ip.

Yes, the box (or brick) style filter is called model 80. Before GM switched to the model 80 filter, they used spin-on filters, so yours can very well be the stock setup. I think the stock setup uses the same water separator I have (Wix 33123), but I'm using a larger fuel filter. You'd just have to see how well it works with the electrical lift pump.

Ok. I'm not dead set on putting an electric lift pump in, however. I just don't trust them. electric pumps have stranded me many times (involving several miles of walking). I trust mechanical pumps a lot more.

Well, there are some things I don't like about the diaphragm pumps: You never know if they are working, they can leak fuel into the crankcase, they depend on engine speed, the way to drive them with the pushrod is weird, and they provide a pulsing fuel flow instead of a steady one. They are probably horribly inefficient.

If the mechanical pump was a good one, I wouldn't have changed to an electrical one. The electrical pumps have their own disadvantages, but in this case, I think I'm better off with the electrical pump.

I'll take a mechanical pump over an electric one any day.

Your '83 would have the spin on filters. They switched to the box I believe sometime in '84.

sorry to drag up an old thread but- I found a complete truck for $500 that has a GOOD steel flatbed and comes with rust free front fenders. I will be putting both of them on my '83 K20 project truck.
I've got to talk the guy into selling me that '90 K2500 (at first he would- now he wants to some days and doesn't on others)
I will be dropping in a J code goodwrench with 50K on it. Just gotta get the injection pump rebuilt and it will run- I put the pump on my '83 K20, but that still isn't close to being running, so I'll have to get the pump off the '83 rebuilt but I should be out the door (truck purchase price and parts needed to swap to diesel) for under $800 and I can make some of that back by selling the 350 that is in it.
It should be one sweet truck- Th400 and 3.73s is bulletproof, has some rust.
I might convert the '83 K20 to a dually....

WOW, there are parts flying around all over the place at your house aren't there?

I would go with the 4-speed conversion. I put a 4-speed in mine and i love it. The hardest part was hanging that damned pedal bracket and getting the clutch linkage to work right. That's what took the most time of the whole swap. I still had it done in a weekend though. napa has clutch and flywheel packages for around 300 if i remember right. I got my clutch from advanced auto and it turned out to be defective. I have a new on i got from exchanging that one i'll sell for 100 if you want it. A new clutch is about 180 i think. I've got a zoom clutch now because i'm running bigger tire.

If you go to all the trouble of converting it to a manual tranny, you might as well bypass the SM465 and put in an NV4500 or NV5600 so that you'll have OD. Makes more sense to me, just my opinion.

If you go to all the trouble of converting it to a manual tranny, you might as well bypass the SM465 and put in an NV4500 or NV5600 so that you'll have OD. Makes more sense to me, just my opinion.

An overdrive would make a hell of a difference. That's going to be my next big project along with a dana 60 front.