Well after reading various DP threads and searching this topic to death it appears that another dealership has no clue what they are doing. :mad:

My truck has 103K miles on it so I brought it into a local dealership for some preventative maintenance that I just do not have the time to do this past Friday (8/22) and part of the maintenance was a tranny flush. Upon reviewing the paperwork the dealer put Dex-VI fluid in my tranny. After searching this forum and reviewing the Allison website it clearly states that for series 1000 transmissions that are below S/N 6310670488 (which mine is) Dex-VI should NOT be used. I could not find why allison does not recoomend Dex-VI on their website but after searching here @ DP it looks like it will cause issues with seals/o-rings in the tranny.

I'm going to be calling the dealer Monday morning to see what they say about getting the Dex-VI out of my tranny and getting either Dex-III or Transynd in it. Besides getting the Dex-VI out is there anything else that I should be concerned about and make the dealership aware of or asked to be swapped out? I don't want this to cause further issues down the road. The truck has only been driven 30 miles and has been parked since I found this out so I doubt it would have already caused issues with the tranny seals/o-rings but I figured I would ask the pro's here @ DP.

Any input would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks again guys!!!!
:beerchug:

The dealer wants to only stock one grade of tranny fluid which is dex VI, so thats what they are going to give you. They will also insist that it will be compatable with your tranny, but allison says it isn't.This topic is somewhat confusing but if GM wants to warrenty the tranny with DEx VI then fine , but get it in writing.I have an 05 with a serial # that falls after the cut off point so I went with DEX VI, but just to make sure I e-mailed GM to see if it was compatable. They e-mailed me back saying that it was, also emailed castrol whom also said Dex VI was recommended. I kept copies of both email responses from GM and Castrol just in case a problem arises.

"Dex-VI should NOT be used. I could not find why allison does not recoomend Dex-VI on their website but after searching here @ DP it looks like it will cause issues with seals/o-rings in the tranny".



That is what I heard as well.
I believe the reason for the different fluid is because of compatibility with the seals. I think the Dexron VI in the older transmissions will cause the seals to harden and crack. It's good that you are changing right away. I would keep the invoice as a record that the dealer put in the wrong fluid just in case something does go wrong.

Subject:Release of DEXRONŽ-VI Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF)

Models:2008 and Prior GM Passenger Cars and Light Duty Trucks
2003-2008 HUMMER H2
2006-2008 HUMMER H3
2005-2007 Saturn Relay
2005 and Prior Saturn L-Series
2005-2007 Saturn ION
2005-2008 Saturn VUE with 4T45-E
2005-2008 Saab 9-7X

Except 2008 and Prior Chevrolet Aveo, Equinox
Except 2006 and Prior Chevrolet Epica
Except 2007 and Prior Chevrolet Optra
Except 2008 and Prior Pontiac Torrent, Vibe, Wave
Except 2003-2005 Saturn ION with CVT or AF23 Only
Except 1991-2002 Saturn S-Series
Except 2008 and Prior Saturn VUE with CVT, AF33 or 5AT (MJ7/MJ8) Transmission Only
Except 2008 Saturn Astra


Attention: DEXRONŽ-VI Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) is the only approved fluid for warranty repairs for General Motors transmissions/transaxles requiring DEXRONŽ-III and/or prior DEXRONŽ transmission fluids.

This bulletin is being revised to update model/model year information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 04-07-30-037C (Section 07 -- Transmission/Transaxle).
<A href="http://gsi.xw.gm.com/si/showDoc.do?docSyskey=2039572&from=sm#ss1-2039572">MANUAL TRANSMISSIONS / TRANSFER CASES and POWER STEERING

The content of this bulletin does not apply to manual transmissions or transfer cases. Any vehicle that previously required DEXRONŽ-III for a manual transmission or transfer case should now use P/N 88861800. This fluid is labeled Manual Transmission and Transfer Case Fluid. Power Steering Systems should now use P/N 9985010 labeled Power Steering Fluid.
Consult the Owner's Manual or Service Information (SI) for fluid recommendations.
Some of our customers and/or General Motors dealerships/Saturn Retailers may have some concerns with DEXRONŽ-VI and DEXRONŽ-III Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) and transmission warranty claims. DEXRONŽ-VI is the only approved fluid for warranty repairs for General Motors transmissions/transaxles requiring DEXRONŽ-III and/or prior DEXRONŽ transmission fluids. Please remember that the clean oil reservoirs of the J 45096 - Flushing and Flow Tester machine should be purged of DEXRONŽ-III and filled with DEXRONŽ-VI for testing, flushing or filling General Motors transmissions/transaxles.
DEXRONŽ-VI can be used in any proportion in past model vehicles equipped with an automatic transmission/transaxle in place of DEXRONŽ-III (i.e. topping off the fluid in the event of a repair or fluid change). DEXRONŽ-VI is also compatible with any former version of DEXRONŽ for use in automatic transmissions/transaxles.
<A href="http://gsi.xw.gm.com/si/showDoc.do?docSyskey=2039572&from=sm#ss2-2039572">DEXRONŽ-VI ATF

General Motors Powertrain has upgraded to DEXRONŽ-VI ATF with the start of 2006 vehicle production.
Current and prior automatic transmission models that had used DEXRONŽ-III must now only use DEXRONŽ-VI.
All 2006 and future model transmissions that use DEXRONŽ-VI are to be serviced ONLY with DEXRONŽ-VI fluid.
DEXRONŽ-VI is an improvement over DEXRONŽ-III in the following areas:
DEXRONŽ-VI
Fluid Service Change Interval
160,000 km (100,000 mi) For Cars and Light Duty Trucks*
80,000 km (50,000 mi) (Severe Use) For Cars and Light Duty Trucks*
Clutch Friction Stability
Improved 100%
Clutch Durability Due To Fluid
Improved 120%
Oil Film Thickness
Increased 20%
Fluid Oxidation
Improved 100%
Foam/Aeration
Improved 150%
Shear Stability
Improved 200%

* These ATF change intervals remain the same as DEXRONŽ-III for the time being.
<A href="http://gsi.xw.gm.com/si/showDoc.do?docSyskey=2039572&from=sm#ss3-2039572">2006-2008 Transmission Fill and Cooler Flushing

Some new applications of the 6L80 six speed transmission will require the use of the J 45096 - Flushing and Flow Tester to accomplish transmission fluid fill. It is highly recommended that the clean oil reservoir of the machine be purged of DEXRONŽ-III and filled with DEXRONŽ-VI
<A href="http://gsi.xw.gm.com/si/showDoc.do?docSyskey=2039572&from=sm#ss4-2039572">Parts Information

Part Number
Description
88861003 (US)
DEXRONŽ-VI Auto Trans Fluid (1 qt bottle)
88861045 (US)
DEXRONŽ-VI Auto Trans Fluid (1 gal bottle)
88861046 (US)
DEXRONŽ-VI Auto Trans Fluid (55 gal drum)
88861004 (Canada)
DEXRONŽ-VI Auto Trans Fluid (1L bottle)
88861043 (Canada)
DEXRONŽ-VI Auto Trans Fluid (4L bottle)
88861044 (Canada)
DEXRONŽ-VI Auto Trans Fluid (205L drum)



Subject:Dexron VI Fluid Usage

Models:2006 And Prior GM Cars and Light Duty Trucks
2006 Hummer
2006 And Prior Saturn Vehicles
2006 And Prior Saab 9-7X
Equipped With A Automatic Transmission or Transaxle



The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.
<A href="http://gsi.xw.gm.com/si/showDoc.do?docSyskey=1911601&from=sm#ss1-1911601">Condition/Concern:

The use of Dexron VI in place of Dexron III.
<A href="http://gsi.xw.gm.com/si/showDoc.do?docSyskey=1911601&from=sm#ss2-1911601">Recommendation/Instructions:

Dexron VI can be used in any proportion in past model vehicle equipped with a automatic transmission/transaxle in place of Dexron III i.e. topping off the fluid in the event of a repair or fluid change. Dexron VI is also compatible with any former version of Dexron for use in automatic transmissions/transaxles.
Dexron III must not be used in place of Dexron VI in models that specifically call for the use of Dexron VI, fluid and component life will be compromised.
DO NOT use Dexron VI in place of CVT fluid or in any component that does not specifically call for the use of Dexron III (or any former version of Dexron).
For further information please reference the latest version of tsb 04-07-30-037B.
Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.

Benjammin lists a GM released notice that DEX VI is fully backward compatible for all GM vehicles prior to 2006 and fully compatible with DEX III. I have done a ton of research on this and had help from several key members here. GM has not and will not acknowledge the issue exists, particularly now that GM and Allison are split. GM owns the licensing of DEX III (not renewed) and DEX VI. The speculation is they raced to release DEX VI prior to having all input from everyone (i.e. Allison).

Allison had Serv Bulletin 1099F that listed two serial number cutoffs (1 for Indy plant, 1 for Baltimore plant). After sale of Allison, Serv Bulletin 1099G only references the Indy plant, not the GM owned Baltimore facility. GM has never issued any formal documentation regarding the viton seal compatibility with the new DEX VI. Allison saw problems with it and addressed them in writing.

My bet is that GM won't acknowledge the problem exists, mainly because they own both DEX III and DEX VI and in my opinion, they know it is a problem that won't likely occur within any warranty period for 2006 or earlier models. If they acknowledge it, they have to correct it.

Bottom line, drain it and use DEX III. Transynd is great, but very expensive. It won't hurt anything short term, from what I've researched. It is a problem that will take time/mileage to dry out and crack the seals. However, you may be looking at your own fluid changes from now on cause GM service depts will only put in DEX VI.

What is the opinion on TranSynd in the older Allisons?

What is the opinion on TranSynd in the older Allisons?

It is completely compatible with any 1000 series transmission per Allison.

IMHO Transynd is far superior to Dex III and superior to Dex VI. Drain intervals are way longer with transynd than Dex III/VI, many allisons are shipped with transynd, including many of the 1000 series transmissions. Depends on what the buyer chooses for fluid, GM chose Dextron for LD trucks.

Also on the compatibilty issues GM says Dex VI is compatible with GM transmissions, makes no mention of compatibility with any other manufacturers transmission. IMHO I would not call an allison a GM transmission, it is an allison transmission, Allison was a wholly owned subsidary (seperate legal entity) from GM. GM bought allison transmissions from Allison for installation in trucks, they did not manufacture the transmission themselves nor call it a GM transmission, the advertize it as an allison transmission. So IMHO the service bulletin does not imply Dex VI is compatible with an allison, Allison makes that determination and they state Dex VI is only compatible above certain serial numbers. I'll stick with allisons recomendations.

At 25K miles I switched mine over the transynd.

Researching this topic is like walking into the Twilight Zone. IMO, jfarr summarizes the situation the best. Personally, I would go with Allison's recommendations over GM's. GM's track record ie: intake manifold gaskets in earlier vortec engines (one engine rebuild and 2 gasket replacements here) speaks for itself. The Viton seals will not fail immediately, but is a function of heat and time. It would be nice to know exactly what additive in Dex VI that causes the seals to harden and crack.

I found that researching this subject is like a never-ending pit and the majority of the crowd is going with Allison's recommendation. I'm from the thinking that if the manufacturer states that something is not compatible with their product then it is not compatible. I guess GM does not have the same thought process.

After calling the dealership I was told that I did not specify to use any special fluid so that is why I get Dex VI (it seems that is all they carry). I go on to mention that according to Allison and service tip 1099F it is not recommended to put Dex VI in an Allison tranny that is prior to a certain S/N and to my amazement someone in the service dept knew what I was talking about. I was then informed that GM does rigorous testing on all fluids and that they have put Dex VI in all trucks that have come through their service dept for quite some time now. I then ask if they will warranty my tranny if the seals go and no big surprise I was told no. The most I could get out of them was free labor but I would have to supply whatever fluid I wanted. I decided to cut my losses @ $150 (cost of flush) and order AmsOil torque-drive and be done with it. I’ll drain the tranny myself (not hoot) and put AmsOil in and then before winter hits in the Northeast I’ll repeat the process and install a new external spin-on filter. This way I should get out about 60 – 70% on the first drain and close to 100% on the second change. I know Allison states that after 3 drains it’s considered a 100% swap. I’d rather be out $150 then a few thousand if something was to go with my tranny.
I take it that as AmsOil torque-drive is their equivalent to TranSynd I can mix the Dex VI and the torque-drive, just as you can mix TranSynd and Dex VI?

I certainly pity the owner that brings their truck to a dealer for a flush and has no idea that they could possibly be putting in the wrong fluid that may end up costing them more $$$ down the road. If it wasn’t for DP I wouldn’t have known either!!!!
Thanks for all the info guys!! I knew I could count on the fine folks here @ DP!!!!
:beerchug:

I found that researching this subject is like a never-ending pit and the majority of the crowd is going with Allison's recommendation. I'm from the thinking that if the manufacturer states that something is not compatible with their product then it is not compatible. I guess GM does not have the same thought process.
:beerchug:
In a conversation with Mike L. he said that GM forced the use of Dexron VI on Allison and they had to do some tweaking to get it to work. That might be why those of us that switched to Transynd experience smoother shifts.:confuzeld