http://truckworld.tenmagazines.com/tenarticle.asp?aid=2007&sid=42



:D

:stirthepo







:D :D :D :D

Guess I dump all my stock in Fram and K&N:cool:
So now what?
I got the K& N with my Banks set-up. Filter is still sitting under my desk at work.
Stock works just fine.

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Link NO WORK for me..............:help2:

Ohhhhh, Mack, Mack, Mack! Just when the dust had finally settled on the Great Air Filter Debate! (Pun intended):muahaha:

That is the very same thing I had shown at the 2001 Diesel Page get together in Ohio. Funny the True Flow looks like a Uni. But at any rate I will still maintain that foam is better reguardless of the great filter debate. Also oil analysis as soon it time and time again in may applications that foam is better.

FOAM! FOAM!! FOAM!!!


Greg

That is the very same thing I had shown at the 2001 Diesel Page get together in Ohio. Funny the True Flow looks like a Uni. But at any rate I will still maintain that foam is better reguardless of the great filter debate. Also oil analysis as soon it time and time again in may applications that foam is better.

FOAM! FOAM!! FOAM!!!


GregDepends if one is gullable enough to buy into this test by none other than the person who sells the filter. At least the great air filter test was done by an independant with a machine designed to duplicate and measure real world flow rates and conditions. With flow rates much lower than the norm this guy could have easily oiled that filter in excess or even used clear glue for that matter. Not saying he did it but just possible. I honestly prefer to believe my own two eyes, and as they see it Foam = dust in my intake and paper = no dust in my intake. Regardless of ANY test. Can't get more real world than that. The defense rests......

Notice the guy says the dirt from the post filter feels gritty. Do you really believe dirt would be coarse enough after passing a paper filter to feel gritty to the touch. Either that dirt would feel silky smooth or the consistency of his hand skin is equal to that of babby baboon arm pits.

Ok, So I got ask......WHO CARES....Honestly.
If you are a daily driver what possible benefit would a general consumer see. Do not tell me he would look 5 years down the road and say: "WOW, look at all the dirt in my oil pan" or "HOLY COW, My cylinder walls are scored, I shaved 100K miles off the life of my motor"

Most consumers do not keep their vehicles for more than 3 years nowadays. Are there better filter media's than the factory set up, sure. are they worth it...Probably not, not for the general population.

Now if you are a hard core off-road person then maybe this has an application. I was always taught that Air cleaners were to stop the occasional Nut or bolt from falling down the carb......:lol: . That's the Drag Racer in me.

Carry On

I wish I could afford the UMP filter...

Regarding filtering nuts and bolts, etc.. From a lube engineer's perspective induction dirt is the #1 cause for premature engine/component failure. I have seen $350,000 engines destroyed in less than a week due to induction leak and attendant abrasive dirt entering the engine. One teaspoon of dirt and adios to a CAT D-11 engine..
Generally when someone purchases a $30,000+ diesel engined vehicle, they are doing it for the long term.
Using an air filter which actually filters out dirt (as opposed to just bricks and birds) is then most beneificial.
I have done real world test after real world test with attendant 6 inches of scar tissue on my butt for having proposed the use of re-usable, washable air filter elements only to have them fail miserably...

Again, if you just have to have the sound of that Swoosh that the non-paper elements provide, just keep in mind that it is at a potentially significant long term cost.
George Morrison, STLE CLS

That is the very same thing I had shown at the 2001 Diesel Page get together in Ohio. Funny the True Flow looks like a Uni. But at any rate I will still maintain that foam is better reguardless of the great filter debate. Also oil analysis as soon it time and time again in may applications that foam is better.

FOAM! FOAM!! FOAM!!!


Greg
I witnessed this test firsthand and continue to run Uni (same as Trueflow) in my trucks. My oil anlysis results also support this...

Again we need to understand the difference between General consumer and high end, high dollar diesel equipment that is subjected to brutal and continuing dust found in mining, escavation and other construction type environments. I am not saying these are bad, but sometimes what is being marketed is a WICKED over kill for the general public but yet a hype is started. These definitely fall into the category of application specific.

I know some people analyze oil, check particulate counts and so on, But at some point this becomes a bit obsessive....:lol: nevermind...Sorry.....We all need some serious :help: and some time on the couch...

What happened to the good ol days of getting in and driving your car???...Are those days gone and we all have become scientific automobile owning engineers???:muahaha:

What happened to the good ol days of getting in and driving your car???...Are those days gone and we all have become scientific automobile owning engineers???:muahaha:


The internet is what has helped get all this info. Before it was the backyard garge and shad trees):h

Greg
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Greg,

AMEN.....Not sure it is all good, But nevertheless it is information...;)

Well first off you can't use an oil analysis in which an oil bypass filter is used to determine air filter efficiency. 2nd, How can someone explain the film of dust that coats the intake when using foam or gauze. I know someone will say maybe you didn't seat your filter so I'll stop that one in it's tracks before it's even mentioned as I know how to seat a filter. I also know someone will say their intake remains clean with foam so my question to you plain and simple, do you drive in dust? I do. On the other hand maybe it's just shear luck that I've put in excess of 300K on a couple of pickups running paper, only to have the truck wear out before the engine.

(Ok I'll say it):stirthepo

Maybe you didn't seat your filter :muahaha:

And the debate continues......

Well first off you can't use an oil analysis in which an oil bypass filter is used to determine air filter efficiency.
Uni delivers single digits for me with my bypass system. Gauze was mid 40's with same bypass system...

As Yogi would say, "it is deja vu all over again".

AC Delco Stock paper here...

After reviewing the Spicer test, I ditched the K&N FIPK and went back to stock box, AC Delco paper filter.

Ok, lets get done with it. I'm not going to mention a brand. I have 20K on guaze/wire type airfilter. Alkalai dust/highway driving/desert dirt. Samples of wipings from the intake tube showed 2 to 7 micron particles with minor infiltration before filter cleaning and reoiling. Filter guage never made it to 25% even after an akalai storm. If your worried folks, go get your own tests done. Otherwise, get on down the road.

keepin" it
?????

Uni delivers single digits for me with my bypass system. Gauze was mid 40's with same bypass system...
John, how can you say the Uni "delivers" single digits when your oil bypass is probably filtering whatever dirt the uni or any other air filter would pass? Wouldn't an oil bypass system negate the ability to determine dirt passed by an air filter? Did you get the same numbers without the oil bypass?

Excellent .....

Looks like a Amsoil filter.

I stay with stock paper.

I got a AFE with a dirty Cone Filter...........:cool:

I have no dirt or oil on the inside of my intake tube.........:D

I like the way my turbo sounds..............):h

My motor will be just fine..............:rolleyes:

I'm a MOD Junkie...........:)

:thankyou2
.
.
.

keepin' it, how did you determine the particles were 2-7 micron? Later! Frank

Think I'll go "stacked" ... OEM paper over foam. :) Yeah, laugh ...pretty soon someone will be offering something like that ... "the best of both worlds" ..blah blah blah

No snake oil for me, it's stock paper all the way!

That other stuff is 100% .... :)

Now that I think about it that video brought back memories of the day the Kirby vaccum cleaner guy came by and gave me a similar demo of his Kirby vs my 100 no-brand vaccum. Put a new round-shaped filter in the kirby and ran it back/forth across the carpet a few times and the filter was black with dirt. He then repeated the process with my vaccum and the filter came out white ...no dirt to be found. Wife gets home afterwork and finds a new $1200 Kirby sitting in the center of the living room :ro) by the expression on her face I wasn't sure if she was going to hug or kill me. It ended up being the latter as she reminded me we have our house cleaned weekly by a cleaning service. Oh well. Now if I can just figure out a way to use the kirby on the dmax ...

Once and for all, Paper, Paper, Paper!! (AC Delco)

I Really enjoy the bantering. I say buy the coolest looking one,

How many here have their first DMax truck? Bet only a handful. So Paper, foam or whatever...it does not matter....You will never own it long enough to know

Nice thread Mac......:beerchug:

Now that I think about it that video brought back memories of the day the Kirby vaccum cleaner guy came by and gave me a similar demo of his Kirby vs my 100 no-brand vaccum. Put a new round-shaped filter in the kirby and ran it back/forth across the carpet a few times and the filter was black with dirt. He then repeated the process with my vaccum and the filter came out white ...no dirt to be found. Wife gets home afterwork and finds a new $1200 Kirby sitting in the center of the living room :ro) by the expression on her face I wasn't sure if she was going to hug or kill me. It ended up being the latter as she reminded me we have our house cleaned weekly by a cleaning service. Oh well. Now if I can just figure out a way to use the kirby on the dmax ...


Bhhahahahahaha ):h

I Really enjoy the bantering. I say buy the coolest looking one,

How many here have their first DMax truck? Bet only a handful. So Paper, foam or whatever...it does not matter....You will never own it long enough to know

Nice thread Mac......:beerchug:

Me and the Mrs. are.

We plan on driving this truck until it's in it's last throes, then shooting it repeatedly until it burns, EPA be damned.

Gotta test out the Barrett .50 when we get it, right?

I remember that the "you can't tell if you use bypass oil filtration" issue came up in the last great air filter fight. :blahblah: I use oiled foam. I use bypass oil filtration. If my oil samples low on silicon I am effectively removing abrasive grit from my oil and THAT'S the WHOLE POINT of air and oil filtration - is it not? :exactly: If my silicon levels and ferrographic photo results (from the pan, remember) show single digits and minimal wear products, THEN ONE OR BOTH are doing what is necessary. :grd: I don't have any visible dust or grit in my intake, I live in northern Ohio in a very dusty agricultural area and RIGHT NEXT TO an ACTIVE LIMESTONE QUARRY. I don't think that I'm ingesting grit through an ineffective air filter that a super-effective oil filter is "hiding" from me. :badidea: I have continued to recieve excellent numbers and will continue to use the systems that I have installed and trusted for over 99,000 miles now. I don't endorse or condemn any system and the choice is yours to make. I make mine and don't like people who condemn other choices on less than performance or evidentiary bases. :rant: (Darn! and I told myself that I wasn't going to get back into this stupid bickering!):lol:

I work at a composting site where we take yard waste and make it into dirt. So I work at a dirt making place. We have a CAT D25C off road truck with the 3306 engine running the stock CAT paper filter. This engine will hit 22,000 hours this year and has NEVER been apart. In the summer time when the ground gets really dry the truck works in a cloud dust, as it drives over the dirt roads it's kicking up dust like mad.

I don't know which one, paper or foam, is better, but I think our dump truck is doing just fine on paper.

I had a k&n and it was a pain in the ass to clean the bugs out in between the pleats so on the shelf it went. I then bought a true flow and what a breeze it is to clean it's been on the truck for about 40k with no problems. dave

Mackin,

Are you still running with the AFE?

:(

SpoolinTurbo, you be carefull with that big .50. Don't want no holes in some one elses Duramax over in Mississippi. :D Later! Frank

I wish I had the resources to do my own testing of multiple filters/intakes, but I don't. So I'll have to rely on Spicer's testing as fair and independent. Might be interested in Uni or Truflow in the future, but for now I'll stick with the stock airbox and stock filter, until something proven better comes along. Not worried at all. The K&N is in the county landfill somewhere.

(Thats a 3 on brand count:D)

Frank Blum...After seeing all the filter c#*p on the website, I had a friend take a look at a sample under an electron microscope. I have every intention of getting 500k miles out of this engine. I've done it with a CAT. I'll do it with a Isuzu.

Would it be difficult to make a LARGE paper filter with a superfine inner filter for our trucks? I've run heavy equipment for years and they have all bee setup the same way.......and almost never a problem. Other than the moron that used "high pressure" air to blow out the inner filter and the collasped inner filter on another machine, the paper has been working very very well. Do you know what a "bag house" is... They use paper... I wonder why?

Mackin,

Are you still running with the AFE?

:(


Yes the Magnum with a sock. I have a unused ProGuard 7 (the better AFE element)to install at some point.

Would it be difficult to make a LARGE paper filter with a superfine inner filter for our trucks? I've run heavy equipment for years and they have all bee setup the same way.......and almost never a problem. Other than the moron that used "high pressure" air to blow out the inner filter and the collasped inner filter on another machine, the paper has been working very very well. Do you know what a "bag house" is... They use paper... I wonder why?


When do we get to restrictive in flow?

There's also a size issue - The UMP pushes the available space underhood, and I don't think anyone is lining up for a big cylindrical air filter housing hanging outside or mounted atop the fender like OTR big rigs or bulldozers!;)

What about all that space below the box?

What about all that space below the box?
Mine has a Kennedy Mega fuel filter in it!:D

LOL.......... you can move the fuel filter to the other side. Ehhh, but moving the airfilter over there might be a problem.):h