what is the deal with urea:

Is it like all of the other emissions crap that hurts MPG, and performance?

where do you get it? how much does it cost? how long does it last?



sorry if this has been answered before!

You can read a short FAQ here: http://www.urea-scr.com/faq.html

GM will use urea injection to reduce NOx emissions in the 2010 trucks to meet the stringent tier 2 bin 5 emissions for diesels. Basically the urea/ammonia with react with NOx to produce N2 (Nitrogen in the air) and H2O (water). It will be downstream of the engine in the exhaust and have no effect on engine operation other then you may go into limp mode if you don't fill the urea container when it gets low. According to initial press releases you will have 3 keys cycles once the urea is low to fill it before going into limp mode. All of the Big 3 have been reducing injection timing over the years, becuase it helps lower NOx emissions, but also lowers mpg. This is the main reason tunes are giving better mpg, because the increase the injection timing. Hopefully with the urea injection GM will give us some of the injection timing back from the factory.

I assume you are going to see sealed urea containers in autoparts stores in the next few years. Cost I'm not sure.

I think that Urea is gonna be a big Nightmere From the stand point Urea is Just Nitrogen that you can spread on Farm Land. And if you check your Fertlizers $$ have gone up 300+ % in last few years. I am hoping this is not a long term solution to making diesels run cleaner. Check your lawn fertlizers out may be enough urea in those to do the job lol

I wounder if the system will know if it's got urea in it or water? Hmmm.

Kris

I wounder if the system will know if it's got urea in it or water? Hmmm.

Kris





Rumors are that they are gonna put a special chemical in the urea and if the in tank sensor doesnt sense the chemical the truck will limp mode also the tank supposed to have a special filler nozzle that only the urea bottle will have so it prevents anybody from poring anything else in. also there are rumors that if anybody pours water or any other kind of liquid including urine in the tank it will automatically go into limp mode that only the stealer can disable meaning an all out-of-pocket costly trip to the stealer to drain flush and fill the tank.

Rumors are that they are gonna put a special chemical in the urea and if the in tank sensor doesnt sense the chemical the truck will limp mode also the tank supposed to have a special filler nozzle that only the urea bottle will have so it prevents anybody from poring anything else in. also there are rumors that if anybody pours water or any other kind of liquid including urine in the tank it will automatically go into limp mode that only the stealer can disable meaning an all out-of-pocket costly trip to the stealer to drain flush and fill the tank.

that sounds a little overboard!

that sounds a little overboard!


Yeah doesn't it but its sadly true

Yeah doesn't it but its sadly true
I really don't think it will be that hard to defeat the urea system if you need too. Fooling sensors electronically or mechanically is pretty easy. GM doesn't want to design a complex system, they want to satisfy the EPA and make the system cheap (read simple). If urea is cheap I'll fill the system and not worry about it and so will everyone else becuase it wont effect the way the truck burns fuel. FWIW, I've read that most urea systems use 1% urea to diesel fuel by volume, so it's not going to use very much urea. If I go 5k miles at 15mpg then I'll use almost 4 gallons of urea. The prices I've seen on the web for urea range from $.70 to almost $2 per gallon. At the highest price we are looking a $8 every 5k miles, at that price I'll just refill it and not worry about getting rid of it. If the price ever goes up to ~$80 every 5k miles then that sucker is gone.

I think the urea injection system will be 1000 times better then the fuel robbing DPF.

I think the urea injection system will be 1000 times better then the fuel robbing DPF.

I agree with that. I think the DPF was just a band-aid on an axe wound until stitches were found (like the analogy?:D). Urea is probably the best idea for emissions I've heard of in a while...instead of trying to push 402 cubic inches of exhaust out of a drinking straw.

I think the urea injection system will be 1000 times better then the fuel robbing DPF.

i think the urea system is going to work in conjunction with the dpf but i could be wrong.

the urea we use on our trucks is like a 33% urea mix with water. The urea works well to convert the gases into nitorgen and H2O. only bad thing will be the installing urea stations. Also urea crystalizes(sp) very fast...we have sensors to detect incorrect mix of urea.

i think the urea system is going to work in conjunction with the dpf but i could be wrong.
New trucks will have both urea injection for NOx and the DPF for particulate emissions.

New trucks will have both urea injection for NOx and the DPF for particulate emissions.

ok...now i know i'm not going to buy a new truck...just overhaul an older one

ok...now i know i'm not going to buy a new truck...just overhaul an older one


Same here no new trucks for me just some overhauled LB7's and LBZ's;)

For some reason, the thought of people peeing in their trucks to keep them in performance mode made me laugh. :D

I see a shocking videos episode in the future where someone gets their dong stuck in the urea filler valve.

haha, monel funkawitz, is there a way for me to join your club "ULSD Fumes are Making Me Insane and Sterile"?

For some reason, the thought of people peeing in their trucks to keep them in performance mode made me laugh. :D

I see a shocking videos episode in the future where someone gets their dong stuck in the urea filler valve.



:rotflmao::laugh_exp:lol2:

just great $4.50 urea "its likely urea fluid will be the same cost as diesel fuel"
more money going to the ep!

Can't we just pee in out tanks to provide the urea?? (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2784570#post2784570)

Can't we just pee in out tanks to provide the urea?? (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2784570#post2784570)


Sorta, It won't be concentrated or pure enough.

You'd have to distill your piss. Like whiskey!

Hey that would work if your going for a long drive and you gotta take a piss and your low on that urea stuff then just pull over to the side of the road and go in the tank not a bad idea

Can't we just pee in out tanks to provide the urea?? (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2784570#post2784570)

Sorta, It won't be concentrated or pure enough.

You'd have to distill your piss. Like whiskey!

Hey that would work if your going for a long drive and you gotta take a piss and your low on that urea stuff then just pull over to the side of the road and go in the tank not a bad idea



Rumors are that they are gonna put a special chemical in the urea and if the in tank sensor doesnt sense the chemical the truck will limp mode also the tank supposed to have a special filler nozzle that only the urea bottle will have so it prevents anybody from poring anything else in. also there are rumors that if anybody pours water or any other kind of liquid including urine in the tank it will automatically go into limp mode that only the stealer can disable meaning an all out-of-pocket costly trip to the stealer to drain flush and fill the tank.

They are apparently using urea in europe already. The mpg are suposed to go back up as the cylinder treatment of nox gas will no longer take place. there is a squirt after ignition to help burn the nox at present. the urea will eliminate this as the nox will be treated later.
dpf is going to stay as the black smoke will still be there.

awwww damn

I think that the DPF won't be on the newer trucks that have urea injection. I could be wrong though.

Also, I'm sure a little programming will take care of the people that want to do away with their urea injection. Me being one of them.

Nick

I think that the DPF won't be on the newer trucks that have urea injection. I could be wrong though.

Also, I'm sure a little programming will take care of the people that want to do away with their urea injection. Me being one of them.

Nick
I wish you right, but in 2010i the exhaust system is going to include a DOC, DPF, Scr catalyst, and Urea injection. Due to the new mandated EPA/CARB regulations for Nox and particulate matter.

As far as programming goes........no comment!

I'm sure this will pose a whole book of new problems for people that live in my area of the world -40 to - 50 or whatever celcius

I think that the DPF won't be on the newer trucks that have urea injection. I could be wrong though.

Also, I'm sure a little programming will take care of the people that want to do away with their urea injection. Me being one of them.

Nick
Urea lowers NOx emissions but does nothing to help lower particulate emissions, so the DPF with stay. However I'm hoping that the DPF will be much closer to the engine then on the big Duramax. IMO, GM should put the DPF as close to the engine as possible to get the hottest exhaust gasses and take better advantage of passive regen (regen without using extra fuel).

Hey that would work if your going for a long drive and you gotta take a piss and your low on that urea stuff then just pull over to the side of the road and go in the tank not a bad idea

Just run a hose to the tank. Pee in the funnel and it goes straight to the tank. No need to stop! :rolleyes:

YUP!! that new urea engine is supposed to be a real PISSER!

Thx Ron

You are aware that all this emission stuff is about to much Nitrogen in the AIR, why dont they start R&D on reducing the Nitrogen.
IF they had spent 25yrs. and a zillion dollars, maybe we would not have such complicated slugs today.

just got off on the wrong foot,I guess??
Thx Ron

Good spot for a security switch since if "tank sensor doesn't sense the chemical the truck will go to limp mode"

I'll bet there will be program to fool urea sensor.

You are aware that all this emission stuff is about to much Nitrogen in the AIR, why dont they start R&D on reducing the Nitrogen.
IF they had spent 25yrs. and a zillion dollars, maybe we would not have such complicated slugs today.

just got off on the wrong foot,I guess??
Thx Ron

Actually it's the oxides of nitrogen they're trying to reduce. Hence the references to NOx. Molecular nitrogen (N2) makes up most of our atmosphere. If they got rid of it we'd be hurting.

HI! Danw, I dont want to change the atmosphere and the air, I want a device that changes the air going into the engine.
if they got rid of N2 and had N1, we would have N1O2, that would be 2 parts Oxygen 1 part nitrogen. for an engine, (as we know it),it would have much more oxygen ,more power,double fuel mileage. and almost no NOX,Oxides of Nitrogen. in an infernal combustion engine the nitrogen serves no useful purpose,in fact nitrogen is a serious impediment for proper combustion.
got think out of the box on this one!!

Thx Ron

and stuffing the exhaust back into the intake,and then pissin urea back into the exhaust is just dumb engineering!! band aid approach.
think about it!! reducing Nitrogen going into the engine would solve a lot of the problems.
by the way i aint never met anyone who died from NOX,, now carbon monoxide, YES, i have seen 2 in my life.
i know,, diesels have no carbon monoxides.

Thx Ron

while im ranting,, do you think the oil indusry would allow R&D for somthing that would double fuel mileage.
as Bender on Futurama, would say, OH Yeah that will be the day!!

im done,(its all about the money)

Thx Ron

i know,, diesels have no carbon monoxides.

Thx Ron

Diesel combustion causes CO2

It produces less CO2 than the geas engine but they produce some...

dont know if you were serious about that one... :rolleyes:

o8radolt,, CO2 is carbon dioxide,,, CO is carbon monoxide, two different chemicals.
CO can be absorbed into the blood stream thru the lungs,can lead to death.
CO2 is what plants like the most,turns them green,which produces Oxygen.
actually diesels do produce a small amount of CO,but about 85% less than an equivelent Gasoline engine. Thx Ron

It is odd how information is lost over time!!
back around the 1960-70s, planes flying over the new interstate hiways noticed that along the edges of the roads had much greener grass and bushes than further in,it was determined that the smoky diesels carbon soot became a fertilizer along with the CO2 that plants absorbed,ending up making more Oxygen. remember think of ways to reduce amount Nitrogen of the air going into the engine.Thx Ron

im sure that there will be a bypass the the sensor, like pluging a 1/2watt resistor. kinda like the skip shift in f bodys and corvettes. unplug the harness, add 1/2watt resistor, plug harness back, no more skip shift

The Urea tank will probably be refilled at each oil change. This is what BMW does with their new automotive Diesel. That will probably work out to every 4-5 thousand miles, but I'm sure there will be a readout on the DIC.
(the one in the truck- not the home brew urea tank filler). They might even use urea consumption in the oil change interval calculation.

2004.5 D/A 2500 - SOLD
2007 F450 V10

Back n the 1970s some luxery motorhomes had plumbing built in to them that would pump the contents of their black (sewer) tank into the exhaust pipe ahead of the muffler once the coach reached operating temperature and speed. Air polution obviously was not their concern, eliminating the contents of their tank was. It was thought that the high temperature would kill all of the microorganisms and evaproate the water. It did both very well but quickly plugged and/or rusted out the muffler. I saw a few of these systems but never had the misfortune of following one up a hill. Just think of that smell!

Hey Klinker, I would say the smell from 1/2 dozen ureas going up a hill and computor decides to clear things, would make an interesting oder! we have a hill here 1/2mile long, in the morn some cars are not up to full temp, smell is obvious. GAG!
Thx Ron