I recently had my burban emission tested here in Utah. They hook it to a dyno and test emissions cruising at 50 then at WOT. I passed with flying colors, only 2.3% particulates at 50 mph and only 8.8% at 50 mph under WOT. The max allowed is 30%.

Now this is great because I have scrapped the stock exhaust and installed 3" downpipe and 4" out the back and the convertor is only a shell of its former self:rolleyes:.

They also gave me a power ratings at the rear wheels. The horsepower was reasonable at 120 which is normal when estimating you lose about 1/3 from the flywheel. But what really astounded me was the torque which tested at 390 at the rear wheels. :ro)Is that normal for the few mods I have done? I'm not complaining but I have 160K on it and expected the normal losses and the torque to be around 300.

It makes me excited to get my intercooler installed and test it with a little more boost.

chevydave, that is great! now if you lose the snorkel and get a nice crossover that is mandrell bent watch that number go up even more.

Don't have a snorkel. I took the original airbox and simply cut off the side over the incoming air and the filter is now open to the engine compartment, at least the fender. When I install IC I will be completely redoing the intake system.

I will put a cold air box around a high volume round filter and I was thinking about cutting the fender and installing a grated section for fresh cool air similar to the new Land Rover fender holes (with a matching one on the drivers side for underhood heat removal). I will rotate the turbo to accomodate the IC. THen I plan on cutting the upper intake manifold just in front of the IAC sensor and rotating it 180 degrees and rewelding it to pick up the IC coming from the drivers side of the engine compartment.

I plan on taking lots of pics for anyone interested in the installation.

I am interested in getting a new crossover but I've only found them in kits with the downpipe, any leads on where to get just the crossover?

SSDiesel supply on ebay has them in 2.5". don't remember the price.

Have you seen the intercoolers for cummins and PS that have been installed in chevy repowers sort of where the A/c condenser is stock, with a little cutting and welding?

I recently acquired a bigger turbo and two ICs and dropped cr to 18:1 on my '93. I'd like to dyno it when it''s all together.

www.kennedydiesel.com (http://www.kennedydiesel.com) is where I got mine, I just checked Bill Heath carries them also www.heathdiesel.com (http://www.heathdiesel.com/)

how does it sound with the airbox open to the engine compartment?

Forgive me for asking, but I'm a newbie to the diesel market. Are we ONLY putting 120hp on the ground stock????? Yeah, I know we have torque coming out of our a$&, but it just seems like we should be get more than 120hp stock. Just seems odd.....

120 hp - 140 hp stock at the rear wheels is typically what we've seen. Not too impressive, huh?

Anyone interested in what the '93 will make on the dyno, once I get all the parts on it?
I'm thinking ~220 rwhp at least.
BTW The guy that sells the 80 hp chips on that auction site is really interested in having me scan fuel output and a before the chip and after dynoed on the '94 once I finish the rebuild on it. I'm really interested too. I'll have to ask him to become a site sponsor or it might cause problems if I talk about it too much.

THE GUY FROM THE AUCTION IS HERE !! WHATS UP CHRIS !!:grd:

Hey Ryan,
Are you going to help us avarage joes out and support our 6.5L forum? Someone has to pay the bills around here and if you don't help we can't talk about your products and prices and these guys, I'm sure have a list of question just about your chip for OBDI.

You must mean 2.5" crossover, btw

QM

I'd be more interested to know what you did to the '93 to think it will make 220+.

cr is 20.3:1, I'm putting on a '97 PS turbo and mutiple IC's. I'm putting in boost and pyro gauges. The DB-2 had the fuel metering turned up a little more than a half turn and I ported the head's intake and exhaust runners but I guess the orange paint's worth at least .22 hp

I also have a centerforce stage III clutch ~90% improvement over stock.

In an effort not to sound negative, although it probably seems that it's WAY too late...

You have increased the air delivery in quantity and made it cooler. But you only increased the fuel by 'A little more than half turn'.

How generous of a dyno are you going on?

I dunno. I know HPE has one For $100 a ride or something like that. I'm ready for something tangible, like a dynograph to look at for what I've done, that way I can compre it to the next step, ie the cam, the 80 hp chip and perhaps 19:1 on the '94 as well as a larger turbo and an IC.

Hey Ryan,
Are you going to help us avarage joes out and support our 6.5L forum? Someone has to pay the bills around here and if you don't help we can't talk about your products and prices and these guys, I'm sure have a list of question just about your chip for OBDI.

You must mean 2.5" crossover, btwBY BAD, IT IS 3.5"

Cool, I'm about to switch to a PS turbo, not the same probably but a 3.5" downpipe sounds about as big as you can go, unless you transition into a 4" at the bottom.

I DONT THINK a garret can safly produce enough boost to were there will be a differance between 3.5 or 4". maybe try a small hoset( HY35 )???

I think you should definitely be able to get 220 with a stoke PS turbo, assuming that you have the fuel to match it.

I'd really like to see someone just make a PMD replacement a la MegaSquirt that you can program for yourself. It would make all of those mods a lot easier to tune for max power, at least that's what I would think.

QM, I for one would be very interested to see what your results are like when all is said and done. I was always interested in doing performance mods to my 6.5.

As for the 120-140 rwhp stock, yeah I would say that sounds about right. The torque is really what makes it feel like it's faster than it is.

Last night I drove my friend's new '93 C3500 6.5... made me nostalgic for my old '97 (which I then had a dream about last night). Don't think I'll trade in my Cummins for a 6.5 anytime soon, though.

Ted,
I've seen your yellow '97. It was over at hrjack's house when I was there. He had a new engine in it already.

Anyone interested in what the '93 will make on the dyno, once I get all the parts on it?
I'm thinking ~220 rwhp at least.
BTW The guy that sells the 80 hp chips on that auction site is really interested in having me scan fuel output and a before the chip and after dynoed on the '94 once I finish the rebuild on it. I'm really interested too. I'll have to ask him to become a site sponsor or it might cause problems if I talk about it too much.
HET QM, I FOR ONE WOULD LOVE TO SEE THIS. You have to be willing to fall short of your goal (in this case for the world to see) to be able to meet your goal. Let me know where you are going to get your dyno, I might want to strap mine on that too. I have nothing to prove or disprove I just want to know what mine will do.
GOOD LUCK

:eek: Hey QM whats up with this site sponsor talk here lately???????? -:t

He who pays the bills, has sway. You and I don't want to pay them, but asking for vendors we use to check out the forum and possibly sponsor us is essential to being able to talk freely about that vendor and their products.

He who pays the bills, has sway. You and I don't want to pay them, but asking for vendors we use to check out the forum and possibly sponser us is essential to being able to talk freely about that vendor and their products.How much we talking bout

what happen to JK and Heath. It seems we (YA) talk alot bout them two. Did they go away ?
I can only talk about the vendor I use and only use the vendor that have what I want at a price I can afford. I can't tell someone to use someone I know nothing about? Thats make sense ?

It's a safe bet that the supporting (Read-Paying) vendors are probably getting upset that people are talking about products other than theirs.

The whole issue is a catch 22. You either charge for membership, or charge vendors. If you go with option 2, you have to make sure the vendors remain willing to pay the bills which would mean that talk about other products from non-paying vendors would be frowned upon even IF (and I do mean IF) they were more cost effective or better. If you go with option 1 the membership would suffer because of people who would not want to pay to support a site.

It really is too bad someone who is filthy rich doesn't want to support a great site like this so we could all talk about whatever we want. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Realize I am completely speculating here, but I have expierenced this kind of thing in the past on other non-automotive boards. Some even to the point of closing down or becoming member based with such a high fee that eventually the benefit wasn't worth the cost.

I don't know what a vendor's sponship costs but I think the solution is to increase the number of vendor's sponsoring this forum. Right now no one is sponsering the 6.2l/6.5L forums only but there's plenty of vendor's who sell parts for them, so I'm inviting them to check it out. DieselRyan is the first to show up and hurrah for him.

QM ya must type faster than I do. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif

It's a safe bet that the supporting (Read-Paying) vendors are probably getting upset that people are talking about products other than theirs.

The whole issue is a catch 22. You either charge for membership, or charge vendors. If you go with option 2, you have to make sure the vendors remain willing to pay the bills which would mean that talk about other products from non-paying vendors would be frowned upon even IF (and I do mean IF) they were more cost effective or better. If you go with option 1 the membership would suffer because of people who would not want to pay to support a site.

It really is too bad someone who is filthy rich doesn't want to support a great site like this so we could all talk about whatever we want. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Realize I am completely speculating here, but I have expierenced this kind of thing in the past on other non-automotive boards. Some even to the point of closing down or becoming member based with such a high fee that eventually the benefit wasn't worth the cost.
I have no problem paying for a membership AS long as it goes to support the site and ...........
I believe that users would also donate cash for site support too. We have done that on an Impala SS site I belong to, that is run by a store selling parts but they don't slap us for talking about other opitions. I bu where I buy cause I often have accounts there and can pay later for a part I need RIGHT NOW. sorry I can't afford to spend what other spend, I still have 6 kids at home and my truck is really my daily driver and not just a toy like my caprice

I can think of vendor's I've used I'd like to see.
Hey CR, how about wester's garage, do they sponsor the forum?
Let's see:
J&H diesel in missouri, blueridge diesel, delta cam in tacoma
drivetrain.com in Az, summit racing, rockauto.com, gmpartsdirect.com
Ebay motors, ect...

Hey don't get me wrong man, this is my daily driver too! It's either this or my mountain bike. I really like this forum and would support it willingly. The thing is, bandwidth and server space isn't cheap, believe me and vendor support is a good way to make it self-supporting I am sure. I mentioned this forum to the vendor my new exhaust came from so there could be open discussion about their products.

I have no problem paying for a membership AS long as it goes to support the site and ...........
I believe that users would also donate cash for site support too. We have done that on an Impala SS site I belong to, that is run by a store selling parts but they don't slap us for talking about other opitions. I bu where I buy cause I often have accounts there and can pay later for a part I need RIGHT NOW. sorry I can't afford to spend what other spend, I still have 6 kids at home and my truck is really my daily driver and not just a toy like my caprice

I was trying to make a couple of points that I worked on while coloring in my corner over here.
I, like making my truck or car better myself when possible without buying what everyone else buys and does. I have taken alot of abuse over my protection of people who think and try to do things outside of the normal box. There is nothing wrong with thinking within the box BUT allow others to think outside of it too.
I don't mind supporting a site, in fact I am getting ready to send money to a caprice 9C1 website for an upgrade, but thats where the money is spent and not on other things.
Basicly I'm cheap when I can be BUT I want things done right. I plan on building my own Headlight Booster instead on giving some one almost 100.00 bucks for one. I will also be building one for my caprice too.

Very interesting vendor support thread here I just found:

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24133

Bowtie,

On the one hand, you ask where JK and Heath have gone and wonder if they're supporting this site... Yet, every piece of advice you give (and QM for that matter) is to avoid sending any money to them. It's always "cobble something together myself to avoid paying them" but "why don't those guys put more money into this site so I can chat for free?" You even say you don't mind giving money to a web site, but you bashed the Diesel Page for charging a membership. The Diesel Page, by the way, is worth every penny I've spent in membership over the years, is the best GM diesel site on the internet and has great people as well. As for Kennedy and other vendors, where do you think they get the money that you want them to send to this site?

Furthermore, I hear complaining from folks about too few vendors that support the 6.5, but it's the same folks who won't send a penny to those vendors who do support the 6.5. Can't have it both ways.

It's fine for you to have your opinion and for me to have mine. I just get a little confused trying to keep up.

I'm all for getting a good price, but not at the expense of quality. If someone has engineered a good solution to a problem, I am very willing to pay for it.

Sorry RJ your off on this one. I have spoke highly of these two and others here on the forum. I HAVE NEVER SAID DON"T BUY THERE. I am looking toward buying several items form one or both at some time in the future. Now that said I have also said that If I can build a headlight booster from 5.00 of relays and 10.00 of wiring plus the warm fuzzy feeling it gives me for doing something for my self and not having to always go buy something to do what I need. Sorry I don't have the extra money to spend on everything I'd like to do to my truck, as some of ya appear to do, and that is great for you who can but I can't. Now as long as I don't, and I haven't, told anyone to NOT buy from someone that would like too.

OH BTW I like what you have gotten out of your truck and I am glad you been able to do this. I can only hope to get that out of mine someday

You can cobble it together ron, I'll manifest it.

Bowtie,
You even say you don't mind giving money to a web site, but you bashed the Diesel Page for charging a membership.
I paid for my membership there as well, What I "bashed" was how I felt thatI couldn't speak my mind if it didn't agree with the "higher" one there. I also said it seemed that money was spent to build trucks so the could sell us more of what they were selling. I mean to get copies of past articles cost more money.

How about back to the topic of power at the rear wheels. I seem to remember when the 6.5 first came out that Four Wheeler did a diesel truck shoot out and the 6.5 put down a respectable 155 hp at the drivers. Not bad considering that the 454 of the same era only put down about 160. Jim Allen put down 130+ out of a NA 6.2 in a blazer with a rebuilt injection pump and injectors after replacing the intake with a non egr version. We do have to remember that all dyno's are not created equal and that is why it is really cool to have a lot of different rigs dyno on the same day and then look at numbers.:cool2:

You can cobble it together ron, I'll manifest it.
Nothing I do is "cobbled together."

Cobbled is as cobbled does, I would like to see some rwhp numbers from a '93 mainly because that's what I have. I suppose it's all relative though. Back to the origional post, those are pretty decent numbers for a "little" 6.5.

decent numbers, horsepower-wise anyway, for a little 6.5 turbo will be 165-175hp assuming an exhaust, slightly increased boost and overall decent operating condition. add a hi-po chip/ecm, intercooling or water/water-alcohol injection and expect to see numbers around 200hp. spend some quality time on a dyno with a knowledgeable tuner/diesel expert like john kennedy and you should see numbers like ronniejoe's....approaching stock dmax horsepower.

matt

Sorry guys DC is right, lets stay on topic here, if you want to express your displeasure for some of the policies here I suggest you take it to the off topics forum. No one has said that you can't discuss other vendors here both good and bad, what was requested that you not speak ill of those who pay for the site unless they have given poor service, speaking ill of them includes how high you think their prices are or that they won't make any special "deals" for you.

In a free capitalist society you are allowed to charge what market forces will support, soliciting vendors in open forum is wrong way to do it, vendor procedures are in place and posted in the vendors area as long as a vendors lives to the rules set forth in them they are a vendor "in good stead" any vendor you think would benefit the site should be directed to contact Diesel Power (Nick).

What happens if your vendor that you are enamoured with today, next week raises their prices, do we start trashing them next for doing things to keep their business alive. Let market forces dictate what they feel they can charge, it's a slippery slope to pick & support vendors we like on price alone, your decision should include service during & after the sale, spend your hard earned money as you wish but I don't want this forum which is for exchange of those things that keep our trucks running, turned into a vendor battle zone.

Price chasing and maintaing a list isn't something I'm prepared to do as Mod takes too much time and things can turn sour fast (speed of e; look how far off topic this thread turned when I was off line for 12 hours, I would not have let this go this far off topic my apologies to the rest of you).

It isn't fair to our advertisers as I've said before, yes they do have some say but the staff does do a good job IMO of balancing what is right we don't let vendors run this site, behind the scenes we do some internal policeing you aren't privy to, but as long as a vendor is living to the vendor rules; we as a site should not be doing anything that basically puts them out of business, they don't get carte blanche with their supporting member status how this site is run, but they do get some consideration. Listing alternative sites is acceptable but be judicious how you share that info, you can't say vendor X has bad products because their prices are too high, if somebody asks the question where can I get a good deal you are free to say hey got mine at vendor Y.

I would request you not list part # and prices of any vendor even supporting vendors, let the potential buyer make their deal direct, the price you got may not reflect what is available now, plus posting prices beside difficulty to keep track of; hinders both the buyers & sellers ability to strike a deal.

If you have reason to complain about a specific vendor or vendors represented here feel free to PM me or any others on staff and we will address it.

On subject of paid vs non paid site, we discussed it and decided for now way to go is as non pay vendor supported site, membership sites are out there, for one I can attest to quality of is www.thedieselpage.com (http://www.thedieselpage.com/) I still keep my membership there; it was that start of my path of enlightenment for the 6.5's secrets, this site was an off shoot of that site, several members wanted to run things a little differently, so this site was result, if you are no longer happy with things here feel free to create your own off shoot site from here.

I've actually said more than I intended on this my apologies. This is last said on this topic in this thread or I will lock it down; You are free to take it up again in off topics forum, but lets keep the 6.5 forum for 6.5 topics.

Thanks for your indulgence

how does it sound with the airbox open to the engine compartment?
The turbo is only a little louder and sounds great with the window cracked open. In fact I now roll down the passenger side windows a couple inches just to hear the turbo, unfortunately my kids complain about the cold, so I can only do it when driving by myself.:D

Here's my valvecover sticker. It states my "advertised" hp is 200 at 59.5mm3 and 3400 rpm. The vc on the '94 says 190 hp at 61mm3 at 3400. I find it interesting that the fuel delivery went up but the advertised hp went down.


What does Family emissions limits particulate matter emissions are .21 g/BHP-HR equate to the the other test.

For your question on FEL(Family Emission Limits). When a engine family(6.5 Trubo Diesel) is certified under federal EPA CFR 40 the actual levels of each emission (PM, NOX, CO, CO2, and O2) have to be supplied. If the level of one of the emissions is low enough then the certificate holder can enter the engine family into a FEL. Under this rule they can gain credits to apply tword an engine family that doesnt meet the limits. All vehicles that are in an FEL must have it stated on the vehicle. I know this because I work for a Locomotive OEM and we have to certify our new locomotives, and I get to do all of the testing. Actual EPA levers are around 5.5 g/BHP-HR so GM build a lot of these engines and kept them tuned down to give them a lot of credits to apply to other engines.
Any time you add more fuel to get more HP your PM values will go up. And if you cool the intake air too much your PM values will go up. Letting your engine breathe easier without adding fuel should drop PM numbers but not by much. Gm spent a lot of time and man hours getting the level that low.
Any more questions class?



That

Are you sure you meant particulate and not opacity or smoke. Particulate is a very costly and hard emission to measure. Opacity is the standard measurement and measured in %.

The guy testing called it particulates but I double checked the certificate and it is opacity.

Bowtie,

On the one hand, you ask where JK and Heath have gone and wonder if they're supporting this site... Yet, every piece of advice you give (and QM for that matter) is to avoid sending any money to them. It's always "cobble something together myself to avoid paying them" but "why don't those guys put more money into this site so I can chat for free?" You even say you don't mind giving money to a web site, but you bashed the Diesel Page for charging a membership. The Diesel Page, by the way, is worth every penny I've spent in membership over the years, is the best GM diesel site on the internet and has great people as well. As for Kennedy and other vendors, where do you think they get the money that you want them to send to this site?

Furthermore, I hear complaining from folks about too few vendors that support the 6.5, but it's the same folks who won't send a penny to those vendors who do support the 6.5. Can't have it both ways.

It's fine for you to have your opinion and for me to have mine. I just get a little confused trying to keep up.

I'm all for getting a good price, but not at the expense of quality. If someone has engineered a good solution to a problem, I am very willing to pay for it.

QM is the cobbler and one of the reasons I spend so little time here. Dishing out half ass advice and slapping his junk together then telling. The 6.5 is a small "niche" market that I still happen to enjoy dealing with. I know how to make them run, and how to get them to stick together. So long as there's productive discussion about doing things right, I'll be around. If theres bad advice being given, I'll also chime in.


Each year to year and a half I write a sizeable (often more that I ever made in a year punching a clock) check for an order of fan clutches that specifically fit the 6.5 trucks. This order must be prepaid with a 6-8 week production lead time. Nobody else has this clutch, and as far as I know, there is nothing else built for this application that is any different than bone stock. If a book keeper were to analyze the actual return on this investment...


As for QM making 220 RWHP, I'd say 160-180 would be more like it unless he somehow figures a way to put two of those 80HP:rolleyes: chips in his 93.;)

There I feel better now. :rant: mode off...

As for QM making 220 RWHP, I'd say 160-180 would be more like it unless he somehow figures a way to put two of those 80HP chips in his 93.

Did you forget in your haste to tear me down that the '93 has a mechanical pump that I can keep turning up 'till it gives enough fuel?


I am thinking of getting the new 99mm3 prom dieselryan has for sale for my '94 though. I'd be more than happy to dyno it before and after to help illustrate any gains.
I appologize if I'm a cobler, JK. I am but a mender of souls.

As for QM making 220 RWHP, I'd say 160-180 would be more like it unless he somehow figures a way to put two of those 80HP chips in his 93.

Did you forget in your haste to tear me down that the '93 has a mechanical pump that I can keep turning up 'till it gives enough fuel?


I am thinking of getting the new 99mm3 prom dieselryan has for sale for my '94 though. I'd be more than happy to dyno it before and after to help illustrate any gains.
I appologize if I'm a cobler, JK. I am but a mender of souls.


If you think you haven't taken the 4911 beyond it's practical capabilities already...

Ha ChevyDave do you have a muffler on your sub.I want to remove mine and do what you have done ,but don't want that drooning sound when i cruise down the Hwy.I also have a 96 suburban,it is a late 96 build because it has dual stats and ho water pump.That's the way it came.

Ha ChevyDave do you have a muffler on your sub.I want to remove mine and do what you have done ,but don't want that drooning sound when i cruise down the Hwy.I also have a 96 suburban,it is a late 96 build because it has dual stats and ho water pump.That's the way it came.
Yes I have a Magnaflow 4" muffler. It sounds great, although less like a diesel and more like a big block gasser, a real soft whoop, whoop out the exhaust at idle. But once you give a little throttle there is a nice whine from the turbo. It is louder than stock but sounds great. You are very lucky on the dual stat setup. I need to get that done but can't find parts in my limited budget right now. And none of the local junk yards here I have contacted have any 6.5L in their inventory.

Nothing I do is "cobbled together."
AHHHWW come on Ron; your a ole farm boy and every farmer I've run into cobbles things together sometime.:rolleyes: I bought an old farmstead and the dog gone place was fully farmerized! :mad: But none the less I know you do things right I guess your education got you past the farmer phase.:lol:

Don't take to serrious just trying to lighten it up a bit. I know what JK says about the 6.5 being a small market is true and it will only get worse as more DuraBux truck are out there and more 6.5's go to the Diesel grave yard.:(

AHHHWW come on Ron; your a ole farm boy and every farmer I've run into cobbles things together sometime.:rolleyes: I bought an old farmstead and the dog gone place was fully farmerized! :mad: But none the less I know you do things right I guess your education got you past the farmer phase.:lol:

Don't take to serrious just trying to lighten it up a bit. I know what JK says about the 6.5 being a small market is true and it will only get worse as more DuraBux truck are out there and more 6.5's go to the Diesel grave yard.:(
):h :lol: