Hey guys,

I finally jumped into the engine removal today and had the engine on a bench and the heads off in eight hours.
I found problems I didn't know I had, like a swollen glow plug, a broken flywheel bolt, four of those plastic retainer on the rocker arms were broken. #1 CC looked like it was coated with carbon black, as if that cylinder had no heat to burn it off, or a bad injector? no woder it ran hot, That's the cylinder where the coolant :offtopic: sensor is.
I found the cast number. 599

That should be a DB2-4911 Inj Pump.

First thing in the morning, I'd drop that pan and scrutinize the pan rails\main webbing area for the dreaded varicose veins of lack-o'-nickel rot........

QM, are you rebuilding this for the fun of it or did it have a problem you're trying to find and fix. The reason I'm wondering is you said the #8 was different from the others, was this causing a loss of performance.

what are you gonna do to the valves to lower comp? Are you gonna mill or turn the stock piston tops to reduce the height? What about the bushings in the pin end of the rod? I've heard it mentioned of them being replace and bored off center to reduce the length of the rod any info? I like grapes red engine also, but I've been partial to a gray engine color thanks to my gramps navy time, easy to spot oil leaks, all my race engines for my car and a few others that have come out of my shop are gray. How is the general feel for the head studs? Worth the expense?

I'm removing ~.22cc from each intake valve.


The head studs feel like serious hardware

I always liked gray, too, odee, for the very same reasons.

'Course, Chevy Orange, or '82 6.2 Red works just as well.

Matter of fact, that's one of the reasons GM went to uni-black - engines can cross car-lines with little notice, and black does not easily show leaks.

'Nother words, you can get a Chevy in a Buick, and a Buick in a Chevy, an' nobody notices - 'cept ole gear-heads like me, and I can also spot an oil seep on a greased joint...........no matter what the color.:cool:

Ah hates leaks!:mad:

Here's a question for a pump man. When I looked at my valve cover real close today it said the pump was calibrated to 59mm3 per stroke at 3500 iirc. I was wondering if someone had calibrated a DB-2 4911 on the bench as they turned the fuel up. What is the WOT fuel rate at 1/4 and 1/2 turn.
3500 is full load RPM for this pump/engine combination. a 4911 specs 69.5mm3 @ 2000 RPM. Increasing the Roller to Roller will only effect low/midrange fuel quantities, you have to adjust the min/max governor to let you have more fuel at higher RPM. I don't know if you've ever seen the leaf spring on an DB2 H&R before, but there's no magic equivalvent for 1/4 or 1/2 = Xmm of fuel. Its not a linear curve either. To be very rough about this guestimation though, having adjusted quite a few 4911's on the bench, 1/4 turn (90 deg) will give you a lot of fuel, like 5~8mm, 1/2 will give you 9~15mm.

Four cans of carb cleaner, a little elbow grease and I can see the grey cast.

Now - if you'll note the 5 head-bolt pattern, you'll see why 30psi Boost is a practical impossibility.
1 o'clock, 4 o'clock, 5 o'clock, 8 o'clock, 11 o'clock.
Notice the wide gap between 1 and 4 , narrow gap to 5, really wide gap across the exhaust port area between 5 and 8, wide gap 8 to 11 - not even good.

There are 5-bolt patterns that evenly distribute the load around the cylinder.

Really should be a bolt at 12, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 to clamp and seal the cylinder for hi pressures.
Provides equal load-stress with minimal distortion around the deck and cylinder.

Notice also the small hole, where the hi heat, hi pressure combustion front ships outta the pre-combustion chamber (pre-cup), to drive the piston downward.
Note the huge offset from cylinder centerline.

Direct injection Diesels have the entire piston crown and head surface for fuel to combust against, where the high pressure is totally and evenly distributed across the piston crown.

Just a few of the reasons why this engine is not considered 'performance material' - low performance is 'engineered' in.

You're lookin' at the heads for a 135hp Diesel engine..............

Weep, my children........weep, indeed.

The entire cup comes out - if you think of it as a 'cup' you're looking at the bottom of the cup, with a hole in it.
Should just drive out toward camera, with drift thru the injector opening.

It's a cast stainless - cracks around the jet port are ok, long as any crack does not traverse the entire face, port opening to outer cup diameter.

Any with myriad of cracks should probably be replaced.

Check the 'bridge' between each intake and exhaust valve pair for cracks - any found can be patched with a kit, using bronze valve guides.

Btw - you done good, on this cold, drizzly day..............

BTW - the DS-4 at stock 63mm3 fuel rate makes ~200hp.

That hot-chipped 83mm3 makes just a tad more - guar-onnnn-teed!

What aligns the pre-cup on reinstall? The offset is for swirl effect and promote more even combustion.

I pulled one out to look at it it appears there's a key right below my finger tip and a slot in the head that keeps it aligned and intight. I pulled all 8 and ported the opening with my dremel with a dimond tip. I then ported the openings on the intake and exhaust runners.

I don't see any cracks in those cylinders - how about the rest?
Those heads are seemingly in very good to excellent condition.

What exactly did you do the the pre-cups with that Dremel? Picture?

Yeah those head sure look solid enough, I wanna see what you did to the pre-cups too.

You see the darkness is lost in shadow. lighten it up and it doesn't even look the same.

yup, that orange is an eye catcher alright.

Yeap I like "Bowtie" anything

That's 500* ceramic paint ~$5 a can.

I bought a PS garret off ebay for $100 and a couple IC's for $25 each.

What year turbo is that? Least there is a wastegate you can adjust and tinker with. If you can't tinker with it ain't no fun.

Just note that its a pressure operated wastegate, not vacuum operated.

This is the .010" over gasket, the deck of the block and the finished look. BTW this is going back in tomorrow.

Lookin good QM, you should run that pump to Abilene, I'll tell my dad your heading his way, he could put the pump on the test stand and let you watch to see what kind of shape its in, maybe tweak the fuel/advance a little too ;)

I opened the side and rotated the crank 'till I saw this and then gave it a 1/2 turn and then a little bit.
I also advanced the pump 2.5mm to the driver's side.

well, that will put you in the 7-10% fuel increase. Unscrew the 9/16" inlet fitting, and give the TP adjusting screw inside 1/8-1/4 turn too.

The dimensions - shape and size - of those pre-cup 'ports' direct the combustion flame-front into that 'mickey mouse'-eared channel in the piston top, thence across the piston crown.

Purpose is to generate tremendous "swirl" pattern for complete combustion - gives excellent economy - 28mpg in the early trucks.

Not much telling what the result of that 'Dremel Engineering" will be at hi-Boosted, turned-up pump event.

The later 6.5's got a revised -cup for upgraded power, but a dimensional-comparo would need to be performed before attempting to modify those '93 -cups.

I'd like to aquire a set before I pull the '94 motor and do this again.

Yes, there is about a 2" long steel inlet fitting where the FSOL would be on a DS. All you need is a screw driver and pair of pliers to take the rubber line off, a 9/16 to remove the fitting and the same 5/32 allen to adjust the screw inside.

You might also be interested, you can adjust the pumps full load rpm and speed limiter very easily too. just above the head, where the injector lines screw on, at the back of the governor cover, there is a 3/16 allen head bold with a half inch nut on it. Just loosen the 1/2 nut, turn the guide stud in to increase high idle, turn it out to decrease. Just make a note, or better yet, a measurement of the distance from the top of the nut to the bottom of the screw in case you want to put it back.

14mm? you must be talking about the 9/16 fitting. Don't bother then, you advanced static timing and I"m assuming your pump is functioning properly. You can reach the guide stud easily with the intake on...

14mm? you must be talking about the 9/16 fitting. Don't bother then, you advanced static timing and I"m assuming your pump is functioning properly. You can reach the guide stud easily with the intake on...Which guide stud you just lost me.

I just re-read, nevermind.

The guide stud is under the plastic tamper proof cap on the back side of the pump. This controls the maximum high speed RPM's. If I was the only driver and I wanted the max out of it I would screw it all the way in. Just pry the plastic cap off with a screw driver and back the lock nut off and screw the allen head screw in all that you dare. Lock it down and check the max RPM's. You can see the plastic cap in your picture on page 28.

Got it.
I'm still hangin' in there. Cleaning up the trannybell housing and running down the last minute parts burned up the day. The release bearing was on a nylon sleeve instead of the old steel one, oh well, at least it won't score the input race when it goes.

I see those trees in the background. Must be nice to be working with the doors open this time of year. (-10F windchill here today)

It was 50* at 8 am and 75* by 2 pm. I have a tin roof but no walls, yet.

BTW if you guys want to know where to look for cast numbers, I found 599 on the valley wall, on the back next to the crank, and the cast number to the lower left of where you see the OPS in the above picture.

Mine says 599 in big raised dots that spell it out. The lettering must be 2½" tall. No numbers before or after it, dead center middle of the valley on both sides.

likewise on mine but iic it was only on the passenger side. I'm thinking I'll see the same numbers on the '94 now that we know '94 had 'um too..

Did you try getting at that guide stud yet?

I'm confused here. Just how much "rebuilding" went on here other than slipping the heads out from under the injector lines drilling the valves:rolleyes: and painting the heads and valve covers orange?:confused:

3400 RPM is enough for now. I see the guide stud and it's plastic cover but I'll save that 'till later. btw if this truck had an auto tranny I'd do it.

You must not have been watching the episode of 'Trucks!' I saw where David Stacey had Gale Banks on the show, talkin about his 900HP 7000RPM Duramax plans ;)
I'm not suggesting you go over rated engine speed, but with a stick shift and your foot controlling RPMs, this will get the top end governor cut off out of the way so your fuel doesn't get cut back at the high end.
Truth be told, stock calibration specs fuel to 35~37mm(3) @ 3650 RPM. Bottoming out the guide stud won't even put you close to the old 6.2s non adjustable guide stud, they cut off in the 4200RPM range.

FYI I can only get 3800 when my stud is all the way in, been thinking about exchanging with one out of a 6.2 pump I have laying around... Engine looks good QM, good luck.

Little more to it than just swapping out the guide stud, its a different min/max gov inside too.

IC, been looking over literature to make sure I can get it to work, haven't decided yet if it's worth it.

I'm confused here. Just how much "rebuilding" went on here other than slipping the heads out from under the injector lines drilling the valves:rolleyes: and painting the heads and valve covers orange?:confused:Sorry 'bout that false advertising, JK.:joke: Didn't mean to dissapoint you. I had the scale and fine grit belt on the table sander ready to balance the caps rods and pistons but I just left it alone. I didn't fix what wasn't broken. How 'bout I get around to it after I wear those cylinders a bit longer. Btw, I have to get this truck running ASAP so ALL BS aside, I'm ok with it and I'll continue this thread by pulling my '94's engine and tranny and eventually something might get rebuilt on the bottom end. but still I gained ~19:1 cr, and top fuel/advance which we 6.5L guys yearn for and even if you hadn't noticed it, I gave my engine a new frequency of light and that engine took on a new tone or harmonic vibration.

FYI I can only get 3800 when my stud is all the way in, been thinking about exchanging with one out of a 6.2 pump I have laying around... Engine looks good QM, good luck.Thanks!
Tell me about the hx-35 turbo. Not much first hand information beyond GM-series around here as of yet.

Turbo is off a 2003 5.9 cummins. HY-35 quick spooling(boost by 1200 rpm), 20psi by 2200, cheap to get as it isn't much good for HP on a Dodge, requires a litte fab work, but all in all I love it.

Is it loud like a turbo shoud be?

If the one I just bought isn't an exact fit I figure I'd have to make a transition plate between the exhaust flanges or just weld on a new exhaust flange, plus fit two Ic's. This rebuild will be rolling long before it's finished.

Whistles like a truck... The picture you posted looks similar to a turbo a fellow posted about on another site a while back, said it work well except the exhaust outlet wasn't quite right or some such thing.

I bid on so many I'm not sure which PS turbo I won, but I keep picture's an dhere's another one I'm not sure if the first one was it.

Dunno, QM - .010" head gaskets and 1/2" drilling the intake valves don't quite come up to 18:1c\r - more like 20, down from 21.3.

FelPro is specifically unreasonable concerning using the .010" 'gaskets to reduce c\r for a motor running more than 7psi Boost - DON'T EVEN! ! ! ! ! !

18:1 requires dropping the entire piston down approx .050", figgerin' on the entire area of a 4.080" bore.

Could ya possibly run yer math by me........one more time?:confused:

Awhile back it had be approximated that 1/3 cc material ramoval would give 19:1 and I added in the over gasket to that. If that doesn't equate to 19:1 or 18:1 so be it. I plan on testing compression afterwards to see what type of cylinder pressure I'm now making and more over any reduction should help with the bigger PS turbo going in.

.050" at 4.055 bore (stock) is 10.57 cc's. A stock engine is 808 cc's per cylinder and to be 21.5 -1 takes a 39.5 cc chamber. you get 808+39.5 = 847.5/39.5 = 21.45 - 1. if you add 10.5 cc's to the chamber you get 808+50 = 858/50 = 17.16 - 1.

Very good - looks like the valves were .375" drilled (looks like about 5 drill diameters across ~2" valve face), which would remove approx what cc's?

If 1 mL = 1 cc then I removed ~.22 mL or .22 cc each pocket
I used liquid h2o in a 1 mL graduated pipette to measure displacement.
So I was .13 cc's shy on 1/3 cc.

Here's the reason I pulled the engine in the first place.

After I put the race on the NVG4500 input shaft, the engine was ready to drop in.

Yeap that input shaft bearing retainer looks just like the one that was in mine. Cost me 3 clutch master cylinders, split them in half all three of them. Found that when we pulled the tranny to put a clutch init to fix the problem.

Cast iron would cure that, rat real quick, like...........

50 x .2cc = 10cc........

I have a castiron master and slave out of a 2 ton truck if you look on the firewall next to the brake fluid reservior it's there on the left where you'd expect to see gm's nylon master:eek: .



50 x .2cc = 10cc........<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
__________________
Ok I see your point. I have lowered compression but not that much. I guess I'll remove more material when I do the '94, like 25 x .2cc = 5cc

Ok I'll do the math. 808 + 39.5 + 2.114 cc's from the thicker gasket + .22 cc drilled /41.833 = 20.31475:1 cr Not bad! I guess I don't get anything from porting the pre-cup spill. Perhaps this is a good thing. I get a feel for what one less point of compression feels like before taking it further.

When do you expect to have this puppy fired back up again? I'm gettin anxious for ya over here :)

It's in! Just a few things to finishup and I'll fire it up tomorrow.BTW I don't have a bracket on either starter '93 or '94

No bracket? Make one. The one on my blazer isn't much more than a 90 deg bracket that goes from the back of the starter to the block.

What should it look like? I mean how does the 90* relate to the bolt holes and block?

Look at the back end of the starter, you should see a stud hanging out, thats where the bracket bolts on.

\/
http://i11.ebayimg.com/03/i/00/92/16/88_1.JPG

Texas,

Not to throw off the subject, but that is a pretty starter. Is is just an extra new one you have hanging around?
My main question is, why are these posts coming up as mountain time? Is this where the site is generated from or is there a glitch in the system?
Not complaining just curious.

Mark

good pic! Here's a crude paint image. the slotted hole goes to the block round hole on starter stud.

kimagine, you can set your time zone in the User CP. Mines set to Eastern, you will probably want Central. And I stole, ahem, *borrowed* that picture off Ebay.

Sweet.

I see, said the blind man! Thanks for the pic and drawing.

Hey I'm not a moderator anymore. Whoop te Flip'n Doo. Tim can edit me at will now.

Nothing stopped me before, nor do I recall doing it, I would prefer you taking this to PM
as it adds nothing to the site or this topic.

Oh.. sorry,
Tim has never edited me, I regress.

Here's a picture of a water cooler charge cooler, rated for 350 hp.
Cost me $30

here's a picture of my spare one. I keep it in my desk drawer, always close by

Yea TDG,
That starter looks like my spare one too I keep around, all nice and pretty.

I'm assuming that the other hole is on the vertical side. I could make it easy enough, one bend two holes to drill.

QM take a look at the picture I just posted for you

I saw it. I was just wondering about where the other hole was in it.

both holes are shown on the picture I took 15 minutes ago.

I guess my display is too dark or something, I can only see the one, but I still have a much better idea of what it looks like and does, thanks, Guys!

send me your email and I'll resend it to you '

Quantum, The water/air cooler. Why not use fuel as the cooling medium and you won't have to figure out a water pump and storage system. Just keep the tanks full when driving hard.

QM did you get that picture and did it help you out

Quantum, The water/air cooler. Why not use fuel as the cooling medium and you won't have to figure out a water pump and storage system. Just keep the tanks full when driving hard.
pure distilled water has a co-efficeint of 4:1. I wonder what veggie oil would cool like, it could be my SVO heater, LOL

QM did you get that picture and did it help you out
yes I got it, and I looked at the back of my starter and the nearby block surface. I think I see the bolthole.

If you make enough boost it will heat it up.

QM, did ya get to finish the pickup yet?

It rained hard today :rolleyes: and I worked on it but I'm still not finished. I put the '94 under the A-frame and pulled the exhaust/turbo and put it on the '93,can't wait for the garret and it was coming off anyway as the rebuid kit for the 4L80E cobbled itself together and showed up at my door. bleed the clutch, got everything in and on the motor, 'cept the crossover and exhaust/down pipe I'm thinking about taking off the evap-charge air cooler I really did cobble together off and using the '94's upper as it's not cut and it has a boost tap and then I have to prime the IP, 'cuse to turn up the screw dumps all the pump's fuel. I have to get it going tomorrow I have other stuff to do.

running the lift pump and a few seconds of cranking should free IP of air in my experience... I'm anxious to hear how the .010 head gasket works out for ya.

QM you figure out where you might find a dyno around us?

No Bow, I havn't looked. I only know of HPE in houston forsure does trucks. I don't care to hear the nay sayers say nay 'cuz the dyno wasn't their brand and we're only at ~100 ft above sea in the houston area or whatever. I'll find the right place. I'm more interested in my numbers than anyone.

well I'm interested in seeing what you have gotten too and where I'm at with an amost stock engine setup for me. Then see if I can get to higher numbers and what works best.

QM, whats the latest? How close are we to starting this puppy?

I worked all day on it. I keep finding things to put in order. Everything is in place and bolted down now but I drained the batts priming the pump, getting fuel to show at the injectors and there charging up. Right before the batts died it tried to start so I expect it will next time I go out there.

sweet, so I take it you might be out on a test drive for a while then?

I left the old oil in it. I'm going to go 100 miles or so and put fresh oil and filters. I havn't started this truck since last easter, so this is quite rewarding just to have it this close, but I'm physically beat. I'm not jumping into the '94 till I'm recovered some, till my hands heal all the cuts and such. This was 5 or 6 days straight work, I lost count. I have a pic just wait.

What are you doing to the '94? Same thing?

Samething plus headstuds, cam, and more drilling on the valves, for 19:1 then a tranny rebuild for my first time but most of what I do is for the first time or second. I'm not a mechanic, remember, just a countryboy who's playing with his truck.

lol, awesome ;) Looks sweet to man. That paint is hot!

I think the paint was worth all the effort. I love it and the biggest chore was keeping my greasy fingers off of it. It does look hot, I bet it runs the same. I'll take it to the pressure washer and get some of the rest of it clean.

I bet she runs noticeably better. First, the fuel quantity is higher, second, you dropped compression a little, so there's less power lost in turning the engine over. I can see you easily gaining 15-20HP from what you've done.

Battery didn't have enough charge, cranking speed was real slow. I guess I have to wait till morning. I thought the cranking noise was different the second I heard it. Didn't sound like the same old diesel.Censored

Keep it charging and I expect to hear the quiet purr of a new diesel running!!:grd:

Mark

I still like purple valve covers better:lol:

What are those 2 cylidrical items in from of the brake master and behind the drivers battery? They look like upside oil filters. Is this some sort of upgrage for the 93 that you installed?
Mark

That's a perma cool dual remote filter with an extra oil cooler to boot. Sure makes changing the filters a snap plus I run 9 1/2 qts oil.

hey QM where did you find that @ ?

The extra cooler was a tranny cooler from ? that I found in the dumpster behind my officewarehouse ( a goldmine of parts as there's several autoshops that throw away stock parts on the regular) the permacool kit came from J_C whitney for ~$45. I bought it before I came to the diesel place.

Looks GOOD!

thanks! I think it brightens up the motor to say the least, black is so light absorbing and it's impossible to discern what's black and what's greasy on most 6.5's.

Need to paint the intake. We use alumi-a-blast, kind of like "cast-blast" for cast iron look, except it's aluminum. Krylon also use to make "dull aluminum". It makes the intake look new and doesn,t show grease marks as bad.

I'll sneak on tomorrow night to see how she runs(hopefully).

Mark

Most of that grease was from the chain hoist. It's set in oil when not in use and it's oily to touch. I'll drive by the $.50 car wash and degrease it first chance I get I would have done it before hand if I had a choice. What I'd like to paint dull aluminum is the exhaust manifolds.

Does this set-up eliminate the oil filter from underneath or are these just additional? They look like Fram x-grip oil filters..

Mark

.50 cent car washes:rant: . Now I know I need to move out of here. I have not seen a car wash(wash it yourself) for under $1.25 for the first 3 minutes and keep on pumping it in when you want to continue.

Looks great,
Mark

Does this set-up eliminate the oil filter from underneath or are these just additional? They look like Fram x-grip oil filters..

MarkThe kit has an aluminum plate with fittings tapped and you put it on like the regualr filter and hook hoses up to it that run to the remote filter housing, which two fram DG8 or something like that are sitting on and on the other side you can run hoses for an additional oilcooler or put in plugs. I put this on my dad's '96 K3500 also. When I get around to it I'll put it on the '94 as well.

Umm.. yes before I knew better I'd just use fram filters and walmart 15w40.now I get $3 filter's at the autoparts that are better and rotellaT from wallys world . as far as brands, I look for an anti drainback valve and that's about it.

What does that do for the oil? What does it do for the truck?

I realize it would cut down the oil temp, but is it just to try to prolong the life of the oil/viscosity or does it help the engine as well?

Mark

Censored :rant: The oil runs cooler, so I 'd imagine viscosity lasts longer. The filters are easy to change and I don't have to reach up under the motor and front pumkin and grab a greasy filter ever again, on that truck.

Hey QM, great pix and I am excited to see what kinda numbers you can lay down. I have a few questions about your engine setup. Please understand that I am relatively new to the 6.5 so please bear with me. I am applying my previous Naval engineering experience to an automotive application and while most of it applies across the board, I am sure some things are different.

I like the dual filters, more oil in a system keeps it cooler overall, do you have the filters set up with one main and the other as a bypassing element with a finer filtering rating and an orifice so that the bypass element doesn't take all the flow or are they two filters that have the same rating?

Am I seeing things correctly in that picture or were you not finished mounting the filters? They look like bottoms up mount to me, do you have a problem with sludgy oil flowing back to the engine pan? Sediment tends to stay at bottom of a filter from my experience and I have never seen a cartridge type filter mounted that way.

Did you take into account dry start up? If the oil is flowing back to the pan, the oil pump has to pick up from the oil pan and fill filters every time you start up before sending oil to the bearings, or did you incorporate check valves or a pre-oiler system (pump or accumulator) to keep that from happening.

Finally, if keeping oil cool is your goal why mount in engine bay when with a little more hose you could mount them right side up, somewhere out of the engine bay where you get extra cooling passively with cool air flowing on filter bodies?

Thanks again for sharing your experience with the forum!

Censored :rant: The oil runs cooler, so I 'd imagine viscosity lasts longer. The filters are easy to change and I don't have to reach up under the motor and front pumkin and grab a greasy filter ever again, on that truck.

nvmtnlion,
That's how I run the filter's(upside down). I get filter's with anti-drainback valves, that keeps oil in the filters and the Aux oil cooler. It takes only a second more time to pressure the oil system but one of our vendors here has a 12v pre oiler that I've thought about using to save the bearings. The aux cooler oil is in front of the radiator for max cooling before returning to the engine.

nvmtnlion,
That's how I run the filter's(upside down). :badidea:

This is an example of how not to install a remote oil filter system. And, yes, my mind is closed to this possibility because there are many very good reasons to avoid this arrangement. Nvmtnlion has hit on many of them.

Sediment tends to stay at bottom of a filter from my experience and I have never seen a cartridge type filter mounted that way.This is because this mounting arrangement goes against the recommendations of every filter manufacturer out there.

QM, this is not a personal attack against you. It is simply an attempt to help you understand what is wrong with your mounting arrangement and to ensure others don't copy it.

ok
I just fired it up. It took three cranks this morning with a booster and on the third I helped with a squirt of ether that did it.

OK rj, thanks! I do appreciate the caveats, for myself and everyone.

:badidea:

This is an example of how not to install a remote oil filter system. And, yes, my mind is closed to this possibility because there are many very good reasons to avoid this arrangement. Nvmtnlion has hit on many of them.

This is because this mounting arrangement goes against the recommendations of every filter manufacturer out there.

QM, this is not a personal attack against you. It is simply an attempt to help you understand what is wrong with your mounting arrangement and to ensure others don't copy it.
Ronniejoe,

I guess every IHC 466 series engine in 66 and 86 series tractors is wrong then. I don't think its the best way because its mess, but many engines run that way with no ill effects. Would I do it no.

Carey

:eek:

Thanks for pointing that out.

Without starting a major war here (this next stuff is semi-tounge in cheek), notice the color of that tractor. The GREEN one sitting behind it doesn't mount filters in this manner.;)

I think this reinforces my point.):h

I'm straying off topic a little here, so please forgive me, Tim.;) I've always been a MAJOR Deere fan and user. Always thought the IH stuff was junk. Used to have a not-so-friendly competition with the neighboring farmers who ran the red stuff when we ran the green. To illustrate, once when I was young, dad was plowing with his brother's 4020 powershift and 5-16 plow. Finished up the field and was headed toward home with the tractor. Had to drive by a field the neighbors were working... IH 1066 (a little bigger than the one in the picture) was plowing with a similar sized IH plow. Neighbor had just completed a turn near the road and was heading back through the field scratching about 5-6" deep. Dad couldn't resist and pulled into the furrow behind him (we plow about 8" deep) dropped the plow and the race was on. Dad caught him about half way down the pass. At the other end of the field, the neighbor raised the plow, pulled aside, let dad pull in front for the return pass to the road. When dad reached the road again, the neighbor was only about 1/3 of the way back.:D Farm rivalries.

Later, the same crew of neighbors were bragging up a new Massey Ferguson (can't remember the model, this was about 20 years ago, but I believe it was a V-8 diesel - could be wrong, though) that they were thinking of buying. My uncle said it wouldn't pull with his 4620 Deere... The contest was on. The neighbors talked the dealership into hauling the tractor out to our farm where we had some especially tough ground (used to be a fisheries there and the dirt is really mucky). They hitched the Massey to my uncle's 6-18 plow and headed for the field with the dealer operating the tractor. He selected the gear ratio he thought he should use and dropped into an existing furrow...the thing stalled out when the plow hit full depth. Started it back up, went down a couple spools, nearly stalled again. Dropped down to lowest spool and struggled through the pass. The dealer said, "Aint no tractor that can plow that ground worth a hoot." My uncle smiled and said, "We'll see." Took the Massey back to the house, dropped the plow and hooked the 4620 to the plow... back to the field. I used to operate that 4620 (worked for my uncle when I was young for $3/hr) and plowed most ground in 5th gear, which is about 5.5 miles/hr. In really good ground I could run in 6th. This ground we had to drop to 4th. Needless to say, the Massey dealer's jaw dropped when he saw the 4620 motor on through (black smoke rolling, it was turned up some;) ). They went back to the house, loaded the Massey and left without saying another word.):h

hahahahaha now that is a good couple of kill stories!!

So QM how does this beast run?

Like a scalded dog. It's a whisper quieter at idle but when you drop it in gear and rev it, the sound is like a hot gasser with headers. Much louder but I have to tighten the turboside manifold more or install the exhaust gaskets, which I might do when the PS turbo arrives, as it has a slight leak. I'm thinking about touching up the exhaust manifolds with aluminum ceramic paint too.
I drove to the local town and filled up on fresh diesel fuel. I actually saw this old man I know in his '93 6.5L with 400,000 miles and no mods, same color as mine though.

My first impressions are that it's somewhat improved in the 2000 rpm up area but the off idle power seems muted. I think I'll back the pump~.5mm toward the left.

I have a little 3 cyl MF. I know it's limitations as I've broken most of it's weaker parts, but I keep it going.

Good thing to hear it's running QM. On a side not most Deere tractors from the 30 series up have the oil filter mounted sideways...

:eek:

Thanks for pointing that out.

Without starting a major war here (this next stuff is semi-tounge in cheek), notice the color of that tractor. The GREEN one sitting behind it doesn't mount filters in this manner.;)
The paint war will never be settled thats for sure. :D

I never said which color I'd want to spend the day in plowing though if we are going back to tractors that old. ;)

I'll say this though there are lots more red 466 series engines than the green ones because the 466 is still in use in many trucks too.

Carey

Good thing to hear it's running QM. On a side not most Deere tractors from the 30 series up have the oil filter mounted sideways...
Yes, there are lots of sideways mounted filters. Not the most ideal, but not as bad as upside down ones, which are frowned upon. Not to say that it hasn't been done. My bet is that IH made some special considerations in the design to overcome some of the inherent weakness in the approach. Still not a recommmended way to go about it.

Usually done to match requirement with available real estate, and eliminate flexible hosing, which is known to deteriorate in hot-oil environment.

Cannister filters were invented to hang - that's why they look so dumb, upside down.......;)

What's worse than a Fram filter?

An upside down Fram filter...:duh:

Hmm.. Perhaps I will turn them over next time I have to jack with it, like when I dump my oil. Oh, And I don't buy fram anymore since I read that comparo. That's the problem with offshore sourcing of parts, they tend to be substandard in an attemt to make it cheaper.

QM I, for one, will join in the ata boys for getting it running, even with the bottom up double fram filter to cooler you should have know better setup :badidea: :joke: :lol: :lol: :lol: .

CONGRATS DUDE and keep on keeping on. :grd:

Thanks,

Bad news is first gear is making noise and the nv 4500 will come out again before I want it to but I'm going to cut that heavy bumper off tomorrow to see if it helps. The good news is my engine is quieter running at idle, the pedal seems more responsive and in second gear WOT is loud! but not head snapping quick below 2000 rpm I think the topend of the gear (2500-3000 rpm) has all the power now. Do I require more fuel? I didn't see a black cloud once today! I thought a 1/2 turn would be enough on the metering screw.

On the filters,I did it like that so I could change the filter without getting greasy hands. My bad.

Also not seeing much boost 'till 2000 it builds to 5 after 2500 rpm it gets to 15 psi and 3000 rpm it's hitting 18+ but I usually shift by 2500, It's like my power has shifted to a higher rpm, the most improved was the flatspot in 3rd going uphill where you can't seem to get more, almost like there's nothing more in the pedal even though it goes two more inces to the floor? well it accelerates now, and since the 3000 rpms in 3rd corresponds to 60+ mph It doesn't seem so bad when you go into od at that speed.

QM, congrats on getting the beast running and sorry to hear about the tranny.

Thanks,

With any luck, adding gear lube will quieten it down for a while.

You're just seeing the difference in a manual trans, and an auto trans with a fluid coupling\torque multiplier - you'll just need to relearn the driving experience.

Diesel forte' is torque - 4rth gear, 30mph, nail it up to ~60, no shift.

Close attention to tach, Boost, EGT, mph - no charge-air cooler yet, so EEE GEE TEE is the name o' th' game, here.

Same drill, this time in 5th
Really oughtta have IAT info here, but I don't think your scanner is gonna be very user friendly, from here on out.

If you've got 2.35-16's on 4.10s, o\d should be around 3.00 final drive.

My truck hits 20psi at 30mph, and King Torque RULES!!

Difficult to remember the ole bud draft horse weighs in at 8500lbs, dry......

Actually I have the '94 manifold on there. I could theoretically read the IAT sensor with a dvm and translate that to *F.

And I'm running 33x12.5x16.5 in back and 285x75x16 up front, almost the same tires, but I have a '79 10.5" rearend and I suspect I got the 4.08 in back and the stock 4.10 up front.

Here's the oilcooler on a new bracket I made to hang on the alt, right side up this time.

You know when the axle bearing and seal are shot, what a mess, and my tranny was a qt low on oil so it's been another greasy day.

I have seen that mess before. I used to replace the shoes after I discovered a leak. Now I just clean it all up with Brake Cleaner/degreaser. I am not sure what GM did wrong with that design (besides not giving us factory rear disks earlier then 2001), but the 14 BFF is notorious for axle seal failures.

This is about my fourth or fith time but I work on three trucks.

when repairing my last failure on my 95 I discovered that the seal didn't fit in the rotor right cause the PO chiesled a seal out once and then RTV'd a new seal in. All that to say I have had good results when using new or really good parts and seals. Make sure the axle sealing area is smooth too.

My problem that time(s) I fixed the seals was my own fault. Did not know the proper torque. 65lb. I was going too light when I changes them first and that is why I blew my seals again. No that I have torqued them correctly, maybe they will last longer than 6 months.:eek:

Mark

QM, Glad to hear the beast is running.

65lbs on what? the bearing retainer?

rear axle retaining nut.

I was always going with too little torque until I finally read it.