Finally went to make the first hard road test with Darrin(co-worker) and didn't get very far. Rolled into the throttle in 3rd gear, it shifted into 4th I looked at the boost gauge and it was going past 46psi, I said screw this and rolled out. I tried it again rolling into the throttle in 5th gear and it instantly went to 42psi, under light to medium throttle. So until Sunday this thing won't see to much throttle, because I figure if someone is gonna blow the head gasket it might as well be Juice.):h

Before everyone gives me the "this thread is useless without pics" line, just know that I am trying to give you guys an update on the progress. Pipes are gonna start being built hopefully next week.

Nathan I think your 3rd Dodge is in trouble, the D-Maxes are gonna kick ass this year.:ro)

Go gettum... that's what it's all about

Stef,

It depends on who gets more fuel first and once the fuel is there what motor will live through it ;) . Dont be surprised to see some pretty high numbers on the dyno and quick times on the track from these farm tractor motor equipped trucks in their new variation.

Nathan

Finally went to make the first hard road test with Darrin(co-worker) and didn't get very far. Rolled into the throttle in 3rd gear, it shifted into 4th I looked at the boost gauge and it was going past 46psi, I said screw this and rolled out. I tried it again rolling into the throttle in 5th gear and it instantly went to 42psi, under light to medium throttle. So until Sunday this thing won't see to much throttle, because I figure if someone is gonna blow the head gasket it might as well be Juice.):h

Before everyone gives me the "this thread is useless without pics" line, just know that I am trying to give you guys an update on the progress. Pipes are gonna start being built hopefully next week.

Nathan I think your 3rd Dodge is in trouble, the D-Maxes are gonna kick ass this year.:ro)
I TOLD YOU SO!!!!!!!! (just doesn't seem to cut it somehow)


I have said more than a few times that this truck fuels impossibly hard/fast... but I believe the only one who used to believe that was Steve Cole.

Now You Know.

I was not Shullbitting you. (i feel better... the 'I Told You So' part... too classic!)


Just have the studs installed when i get there Stefan.... we'll call it good then!:grd:


Wait1..... Hits HARDER than Nathans 3G Dodge?:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Undrivable, and INVISIBLE.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/hihi.gif

Undrivable, and INVISIBLE.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/hihi.gif
Good.... we don't need to 'advertise' to the evil clan of the 'Mighty Donut Hunters'):h

Wonder what a per gallon cost of the 'Stealth Airplane' Paint is worth?:D

Stefan? Is that "OTHER" set still available......................:exactly:

Steff........ you chicken or what? ):h

two options coming soon?

We wanna see pics.....

Juice

Roomer has it studs are going to cost you big!

Juice

Roomer has it studs are going to cost you big!Thats no lie!

Those suckers are big bucks:eek:

LOL, anyone gonna share some part#'s then? ;)

Ya I Here The Head Studs From Ats Are About 800.00 Thats A Lot For head Studs If You Ask Me

That's super high, If they are ARP I would pay a little extra though. Are they ARP?

Finally went to make the first hard road test with Darrin(co-worker) and didn't get very far. Rolled into the throttle in 3rd gear, it shifted into 4th I looked at the boost gauge and it was going past 46psi, I said screw this and rolled out. I tried it again rolling into the throttle in 5th gear and it instantly went to 42psi, under light to medium throttle. So until Sunday this thing won't see to much throttle, because I figure if someone is gonna blow the head gasket it might as well be Juice.):h

Before everyone gives me the "this thread is useless without pics" line, just know that I am trying to give you guys an update on the progress. Pipes are gonna start being built hopefully next week.

Nathan I think your 3rd Dodge is in trouble, the D-Maxes are gonna kick ass this year.:ro)
it looks like someone is to chicken to get on the throttle.....i hope new studs changes that.....i can see 100psi of boost coming .......................FAST run for cover

it looks like someone is to chicken to get on the throttle.....i hope new studs changes that.....i can see 100psi of boost coming .......................FAST run for cover
Glad to see they are taking good care of the truck.. the last phone call i need is the one telling me the truck is taking an orange 'pee' on the road.

Glad to see they are taking good care of the truck.. the last phone call i need is the one telling me the truck is taking an orange 'pee' on the road.
Alittle orange 'pee' on the road ............................ :confuzeld no big deal.
Alittle black 'pee' on the road ............................:banghead:

Thats a lot of " pee" " pee ". :help:

lol, damn, I really wish I was going this weekend...... CHIT!!!!!!!:mad:

i wish they would hurry up and get this kit on the market.......because i am 19 and have nothing better to do than set around and study and look at stuff like this that i can't wait to do when i get a real job .....lol:drool:

Juice.......
don't forget the diapers.

....You just might need them after your first "stroll" down the block with twins. :gr_grin:




Burner----------------------------->:D

Oooh, I got it....... we'll call it the "Twins Depends" truck. ......... What'da think?:lol:

ok, I'll pack extra shorts!

Hopefully ARP will start broaching the studs so you can remove them, at this point, I cant see how you will remove them with out damage...

I have a few options in the fire for studs though....

Ya I Here The Head Studs From Ats Are About 800.00 Thats A Lot For head Studs If You Ask Me

ARP studs from ATS are $749

While driving in Juice's truck today I had a D-Max guy flag me down to ask me how to make his truck sound like a Jet.:ro) Now all I need is for chicks to ask for a ride in Juice JetMax.:ro)

Stefan... yer killin me... that's it... i am leaving friday morning... I can't stand this teasin no more:D

While driving in Juice's truck today I had a D-Max guy flag me down to ask me how to make his truck sound like a Jet.:ro) Now all I need is for chicks to ask for a ride in Juice JetMax.:ro)
Sounds like your having a blast cruising in juice's truck!!! do you care if I fly up and take it for a spin for a few days!):h

Sounds like your having a blast cruising in juice's truck!!! do you care if I fly up and take it for a spin for a few days!):h
Come on Down!

Now all I need is for chicks to ask for a ride in Juice JetMax.:ro)):h Hmmm...Putting twins on juice's truck was fun, breeding chicks in the back of juice's truck is better.....

:funnypost LOL

:funnypost LOL
Heck, If a DP member wanted to make the trip they could try a test drive!


(as long as they brought a change of skivvies)

Come down south juice. It's too cold up there. We can give it a better test down here. LOL

I wouldnt mind takin a trip up north,,,any good fishin spots? im a sucker when it comes to lake trout

Come down south juice. It's too cold up there. We can give it a better test down here. LOL
Montana is sorta close.

I wouldnt mind takin a trip up north,,,any good fishin spots? im a sucker when it comes to lake trout
We have tons of lakes and rivers up here

Koocanusa has a lot of Kokanee salmon in it (more of a land locked salmon)

Trout in more lakes than you can shake a stick at
Premier Lake, Norbury Lake, Moyie Lake, Suzanne Lake, Tie Lake, Rosen Lake, Dead Man's Lake, Lund Lake, and those ones are about 40 minutes drive!

Ya, the fishing is good, hunting is good, Basically anything outdoors is good here.
The only thing we use indoors for is work and Sleep.... Breeding can be done indoors or out.

You can walk 10 minutes beyond city limits in the trees, Sit down and not see a single soul all day.

Mountains to climb Fisher Peak ETC.

The Bad: No Guns.Censored Liberals.... who knew that they could survive in cold climates?

Arkansas is warmer and closer for me):h

:rolleyes: Arkansas is warmer and closer for me):h :rolleyes:

One of these days, my wife and I need to take a trip up to Canada. Neither of us has been. Judging from the pics, It looks very beautiful.

One of these days, my wife and I need to take a trip up to Canada. Neither of us has been. Judging from the pics, It looks very beautiful.
It is, But Ever Since the LIBERAL Gov't Back East took control we can't shoot them any more

I got to plan a trip up sometime, how far from montana?

I got to plan a trip up sometime, how far from montana?I am 1 hour away from Eureka Montaaaaaana!:D

Or I could meet you in Kalispell MT

Go to Moose's Tavern for Pizza and Barley

Then Stay at my place for a while, go fishin etc

:ro)

I am 1 hour away from Eureka Montaaaaaana!:D

Or I could meet you in Kalispell MT

Go to Moose's Tavern for Pizza and Barley

Then Stay at my place for a while, go fishin etc

:ro)
Sh!t,, thats not that far,,,, I thought you were somewhere in the frozen tundra more north,,, I got to plan on that sometime,, Ill have to leave the wife home though,, anyplace north of wyoming is too cold for her.

i'll buy the pizza!!! if you show me the twins..:ro)
...

maybe even the beer.
.....


ok,ok even the beer.:help2:

i'll buy the pizza!!! if you show me the twins..:ro)
...

maybe even the beer.
.....


ok,ok even the beer.:help2:
COOL!!! Free beer and pizza!!!! fishing too!, but when it comes time to see the twins, juice will have a blanket draped over his engine):h ):h

You guys Let me know when you want to get together!

I would have to ask Nathan about show and tell (probably let that happen but sans pics) And then the RIDE!

After we scare ourselves SHTLESS it will be Moose's for sure!

Got that right about mooses.:help:

I live hear, so anytime is good for me, except around march 24th. The little one is due sometime around then, and I am not sure the wife will believe I am talking about trucks when I say "I'm going for a ride with twins".

Pregnant women are funny that way!

Who knows... as i am thinking about it, I might just have to set up my tab at moose's and go home to change diapers.:D

Got that right about mooses.:help:

I live hear, so anytime is good for me, except around march 24th. The little one is due sometime around then, and I am not sure the wife will believe I am talking about trucks when I say "I'm going for a ride with twins".

Pregnant women are funny that way!

Who knows... as i am thinking about it, I might just have to set up my tab at moose's and go home to change diapers.:DThey still got OLY on tap, peanut shells and sawdust on the floor?

That's my Kinda BAR!:ro)

Not sure about the oly, haven't asked for that in quite some time-:t, but the peanuts and sawdust are still there.

Not sure about the oly, haven't asked for that in quite some time-:t, but the peanuts and sawdust are still there.
What could i say?
OLY was cheap, I was much younger (way back when) and the food was m-mmmm good!

:ro)

Here's a good question that shouldn't give up trade secrets...

Does Stefan's LLY twin make more boost than your LB7 twin setup? I think I know the answer. ;)

they are gated the same for HG reasons .

IIRC Stefan has oopsied mine (because of the fuelling char) past 46

Stefan could use more fuel to help his spool, but the vgt turbo helps in that regard

It would be VERY interesting to see what both setups will do with the same amount of fuel, but that is not practical. My guess is the LLY will own the LB7 on TQ given the same fuel, then they will equalize when the wastegates open. And the LLY will pop the gate at a lower RPM.

AHA! BUT
Your top charger is only there to kick the bottom charger up to speed.... once past 10 PSIG the larger (BOTTOM) turbo is into its map, making over 10 PSI and at a better adiabatic efficiency (better compression with less heat) In short, bigger chargers have less than desireable spool charecteristics, but heat the air less for a given # of boost.
So in reality the top charger (stocker) becomes moot after 10 PSI.

It will depend on fuelling who makes what HP

......... So, there is more charger on both the LLY and the LB7 than the engine can handle, right?

......... So, there is more charger on both the LLY and the LB7 than the engine can handle, right?
Probably.... IIRC Nathan has run his higher than 80 PSI

It's not the boost that going pop the heads, it's the chamber pressure.

You will effectively have a nitrous motor without the nitrous, and the same limits I would guess.

It's not the boost that going pop the heads, it's the chamber pressure.

You will effectively have a nitrous motor without the nitrous, and the same limits I would guess.
Yup
So to that end... i am leaving for DTT on Friday!

Guys keep the lights burning for me

Sounds like a Dieselplace member will also be in attendance to verify the runs!

This time........ get a camera...the kind that takes moving pictures.:Get_him: The only thing that beats the footage is being there yourself.:thumb:

My Digital Still Camera will get some Video footage of the runs.
Bringing my 128 Meg and 256 Meg Card

All that talk and all ya got is 128 and 256 card? ....... grab an 'Ultra 1G' for better performance and more.......

My Digital Still Camera will get some Video footage of the runs.
Bringing my 128 Meg and 256 Meg Card
And I think I know of a way to post all them fancy video things... :think::thumb:

LMK,
brandon.

And I think I know of a way to post all them fancy video things... :think::thumb:

LMK,
brandon.
W/D WSYPML8R


Leaving in another 4 hours!

GO!............. Leave now. Forget the rest of it......... GO! Leave now! :grd:

:rolleyes: GO!............. Leave now. Forget the rest of it......... GO! Leave now! :grd: :rolleyes: ):h

Keep the shinny side up.:)

Keep the shinny side up.:)
More like "Keep the arse end from passing the front end!"


wooooohooooooo!

What Does one get with 'stoopid' fuel..... TWINMAX air...... a biiiig smile!

More like "Keep the arse end from passing the front end!"


wooooohooooooo!

What Does one get with 'stoopid' fuel..... TWINMAX air...... a biiiig smile!

A lengthy drivers abstract...........
Extreme insurance rates...............
And a tolerance to a high pitched WHISTLE!:D

A lengthy drivers abstract...........
Extreme insurance rates...............
And a tolerance to a high pitched WHISTLE!:D

Wheeeeee..... is that the turbo screaming?.... or was that me?):h

Almost forgot... keep the RUBBER SIDE DOWN.

brandon.
(I hear it keeps the Hanes cleaner that way.)

Whoops. Kevin was still logged in on this pc. That last post was actually me.

brnadon.

Juice where's the report with Dyno Graphs

.......... You'll haft'a wait until tomorrow, at least.:shake: .........I really don't like waiting......this sucks. :cussing:

word on the street is 531hp

word on the street is 531hpWow! I hope it's more than that. :D

Canadians and East Coasters have been making those numbers with stock turbos/injectors and just programming for years now. :eek: :cool_shad

:stirthepo

Rut-ro Schaggy..........:drop_mout

word on the street is 531hp
W/ the stupid box and all his other tricks, wonder if that included N2O :help:































:joke: :lol:

Wow! I hope it's more than that. :D

Canadians and East Coasters have been making those numbers with stock turbos/injectors and just programming for years now. :eek: :cool_shad

:stirthepo


2,300 feet pounds of torque although! Was :secret:

2,300 feet pounds of torque although! Was :secret:
That those funny Kanada # so 2300=596ft.lbs. :eek:

Heres some videos for you guys of Juices' rig....

Looks like he didn't get the big turbo lit.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=2130203561

You have to join to view them.

What about the Lilly?

those dam dynojets, from what i could see, the dyno semed to be light(low load), or somthing was slippin, o well juice will fill us in, 500 club

Anyone who has VIDEOS of the TwinMax should also have NUMBERS.

Spit 'em out. Now.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/boxing.gif

What about the Lilly?
The LLY kicked the crap out of the LB7 and they don't want everyone to flood the dealers tomorrow morning until they get their new trucks :lol:

Juice,

I don't care what numbers you got...at least you had the balls to try this on your truck ! :ro)

We should all learn from this and try to improve on the current design.

You really think that 531 is a good number? Censored ....... I doubt it's even close.

Juice where's the report with Dyno Graphs

It seems I could ask a similar question:confused: where's my ???

the gm twins have not gone yet, as of 12:25pm wst, just received a phonecall

........ # 17, # 17..............calling number 17. No.17, yoeu'r time is erup, two hoeurs.
................... All I can say is Load the wagon heavy! :ro)

We got some #'s on Juice's truck today, although we did find that we couldn't get enough load on his truck to make a good reading. He was in the 520-530range, although the funny thing was he made a run with the edge on 5 and the Bullydog Programmer on and poping and farting still made 519hp.:) After Juice made his 530hp run:( he took the shop owner for a ride in his truck, and Lenny said "wow that truck is fast", then my dad ask if he wanted to bet that Juice could take any 600hp Dodge there and he said no.:ro)


So I guess when Steve/TTS and I talked about needing a load to properly dyno these truck holds true. I think anyone that watches Juices Dyno runs can tell that truck makes a little more than 530hp.

Sp33d drove the truck so I'm sure he would know how the twins and trans drove.

For those wondering why Juice wasn't posted yet, it's probably cause he won't be home until late.

Oh and another thing I never put on a lift pump sorry Juice.:o:

seen over a the bombers site: the second set on numbers are from nitrous

This is what I have heard from a few phone conversations, and is subject to revision

#2 Drugs

Lenny 617 817
Juice 525 N/A
Rusty 652 682
Nathan 650 692
Paul 430? Time to Ditch the COMP for a PowerMax!!
Carter 503
Mike R 545
Russ 479

So I guess when Steve/TTS and I talked about needing a load to properly dyno these truck holds true. I think anyone that watches Juices Dyno runs can tell that truck makes a little more than 530hp.


I think I read that somewhere. But where?......I just can't put my finger on it........Hmmmm :cool:

I wonder about that LLY?

I think I read that somewhere. But where?......I just can't put my finger on it........Hmmmm :cool:

I gotta call BS on that one. How were the other trucks there able to spool their turbos to reach over 600HP? :confused:

Lets see,

Lenny has a single.
Rusty has a single.
And Nathan/IdahoCTD was down 50hp.

540 +(uncorrected of course) with the carrotzilla/juice stack and a little propane on my 02.............surely there's more there than that.........brandon how do ya spool yours

I watched two Dodges back to back with twins light up both of them on a Dynojet...740+ hp on #2 only... If the dyno wont light the units, must not be much to drive either.

It did spool the charger there just wasn't any load so his boost #'s were way down. On the street before it will even change from 2nd to 3rd he is at 45lbs of boost on the dyno he was at 34-36lbs.:( Ask Chad/sp33d how hard it is to keep it under 40lbs. :) This truck is by far the most impressive truck taht I have drive as far as spool/power/temps combo, and keep in mind that I have driven Opies 748hp Muncie winning truck, Jetpilot 886hp truck, Nathan's truck, and probably at least 10 other 700hp and above trucks.

The real nice thing about his truck now is that temps are way way down, me and Sp33d were taking about how much fuel you need to apply before it gets over 1000 degrees.

take it to kennedy I will pickup the dyno fare.........he can load it

I gotta call BS on that one. How were the other trucks there able to spool their turbos to reach over 600HP? :confused:


The problem is the Allison tranny wont let you load it like a Dodge without downshifting. Usually I go into lockup and run the truck down to 1200rpms to get the load for good numbers. Even with a Tech II manually shifting it into 5th and a lockup switch the tranny will still downshift. I can tell you flat out the acceleration on the dyno is as fast or faster then my 02 Dodge yet it hits near 3000rpms and something clips the power as it is still climbing. I dont know if it is part of the torque management system or something else but this truck has some serious hp despite what the Dynojet says and everyone who has ridden in it will agree. This is a notorously stingy dyno as well. The highest Duramax Lenny has ever had on it is in the 450hp range with stacked boxes and injectors.

Did you dyno in 5th? It will generate more load. Either way, good first effort. Now you need to dial it in.

If your EGT's aren't up there, sounds like more fuel is the answer. Injectors?

ya injectors are always good for better fuel mileage.;)

no joking guys keep after it i am hoping to see 1000 hp on a dino sheet here shortly :ro) esp with twins on the way

Just got back. Long trip but well worth it. Met a lot of new people and put faces to some usernames. Great time. The guys at Dyno-Mite Diesel that put on the event were great. Didn't get to talk with them much as they were moving trucks in and out pretty fast. I think they finished with 43 trucks total. I made the trip for three reasons: to put more faces with usernames, to see/drive/ride in a DTT Twin equipped truck, and to see/drive/ride in a DTT transmission equipped truck.

Stephan and Nathan were kind enough to let me see the twins on both trucks and all I can say is wow! For being the protypes they looked great. Had I not known they were protypes I would have figured they were the production thing. I'm excited to see the final kits that they end up selling. I'm sure they'll look as good as they perform.

Pictures aren't coming so don't ask. I understand and respect they're request for me not to take or post pics. I'm sure pics of the twins will be posted very soon as they aren't too far away on the production kit. They looked very much like I imagined. There's really only one logical space in the engine compartment for a second charger. A few things have to be moved/relocated but nothing big.

Juice's dyno numbers really puzzled me. Just for reference to Juice's numbers a stock LB7 with a 90hp Edge box ended with 273hp. A stock LLY with the 125hp Juice/Attitude combo made 380hp. All numbers were uncorrected for the day.

I can say that the dyno numbers don't reflect the street performance of these two trucks at all. I was given the opportunity to drive Juice's truck and it flat out rocks. Absolutely no more lag than a stock LB7. The big charger kicks in pretty much the same time I'm use to the stock charger kicking in. That's pretty much where the power similarity ends. It pulls very hard and strong. I compared it to a nitrous kick that doesn't have to be refilled. And smoke was non-existant once the big charger was spinning.

I can't compare this in anyway to the big single chargers that ATS is selling. I'm really looking forward to seeing some times from each setup on the same track, same day. I know for sure this will happen at Diesel Thunder. I'm confident it'll be a close match.

If the big charger in a compounded setup is the same size as the ATS Aurora 5000, why would it not perform equally well? In my mind they should perform very similar. Setting aside class restrictions in pulling/racing is there any other reasons that those of you choosing the big single over compounded twins are making that decision?

In regards to the transmission. I was also impressed. They've still got some problems to be worked out, but Bill and Stefan appear to be very picky about their products and don't want anything on the market that they aren't 100% satisfied with. The downshifts were the main problem on Juice's truck. At times, I was glad I had a seat belt on or I may have been thrown out the window at the down shift. The upshifts were perfect. They were quick and firm. As quick or quicker than any other truck I've drove or ridden in. In my opinion this transmission may not be the best for someone that still wants a stock-like shifting truck as that won't be the case. It shifted hard and fast every single time and in my test drive of Juice's truck we probably made it upshift over 100 times.

Great post, thank you. :D :cool:

Bill and Stefan will probably have something pretty quick, 6 months in and look what they've done.:snipersmi On the trans.... I guess that much area with pressure and downshifts would have a sharp 'kick-down'......maybe someone can fill us in?:think: Something about fluid resistance?

On my 02 you can get into fifth, set the cruise control, and then drop the hammer. It holds fifth... not sure what other years this works on.

my 02 will do the same thing when I get into 4th gear and set the cruise it won't downshift

at any speed? or just when the cruise is on?

Never thought of that.:(

take it to kennedy I will pickup the dyno fare.........he can load it
Dyno fare? I'll pick it up for myself thanks... pay for my fuel and i'm all in!

Juice, we'll be looking for you at Diesel Thunder!

Stefan said your coming weather you like it or not....
LMAO!

Pay for fuel?? Is that it??? okay guys....I think we can all chip in a few clams for this one!
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/hihi.gif

Juice, we'll be looking for you at Diesel Thunder!

Stefan said your coming weather you like it or not....
LMAO!

Diesel Thunder in Spokane Washington... is my 'Home' event (I am only 3 hours from Spokane)

C'mon Down.... I'll be there!:ro)

Hey Juice-

Yeah, hey, drop everything, put your life on hold, get yore ass back in that thing and drive over to Kennedy's. It's somewhere east of you, can't miss it...just go a day or two and hang a right...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/hihi.gif

Glad you're home all in one piece, and remember, we only bust yo nutz out of sooty love.

All are eager to hear how the dynamic duo works out.

Hey Juice-

Yeah, hey, drop everything, put your life on hold, get yore ass back in that thing and drive over to Kennedy's. It's somewhere east of you, can't miss it...just go a day or two and hang a right...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/hihi.gif

Glad you're home all in one piece, and remember, we only bust yo nutz out of sooty love.

All are eager to hear how the dynamic duo works out.
Ya, I'll get right on that one.... what is it again? a 47 hour drive? No, I think it would be cheaper to Send John an airline ticket so he can operate the dyno for my truck up here somewhere.:D

Juice, we'll be looking for you at Diesel Thunder!

Stefan said your coming weather you like it or not....
LMAO!Don't worry Eric, I'm sure there will be more than one twin turbo Duramax there this year ;)

Don't worry Erc, I'm sure there will be more than one twin turbo Duramax there this year ;)
LMAO

Chad. Stefan sez ya gotta get the drool cleaned off my darn truck first!

(don't worry, with all the dirt on my truck i am sure it didn't stick!):eek:

EGT's of the twins? Glad you asked.
Full Stack
Climbing 5% grade
Preturbo EGT
there Y'all go Eh?

LMAO

Chad. Stefan sez ya gotta get the drool cleaned off my darn truck first!

(don't worry, with all the dirt on my truck i am sure it didn't stick!):eek:
I think I did the truck a favor :D

Pretty low temp there.. Fairly low boost too? Looks like 10 lbs?

You have a brake problem Juice?

For those that can't tell (since I can't from the picture, but I know the gauge) it's sitting just a little over 300F. Boost is at 10 psi.

In all my test driving/riding of the truck it never went past 900F.

Juice, could you post those numbers? I can't read the guages.

:D Thanks Speed.

Pretty low temp there.. Fairly low boost too? Looks like 10 lbs?10LBS compounded boost pressure.

Top Turbo was at 5~7 PSIGA Bottom Turbo was the rest (starting to be heard as well).

REMEMBER: Turbo pressure means (almost) nothing. Adiabatic efficiency (the ability to compress the air without superheating it making the intercoolers job easier with no heat soak) and VOLUME of air.....


Don't ask me too much.... IdahoCTD has the better experience.

EGT's were 386F
Speed was 77MPH
Boost was 10 PSIGA

In all my test driving/riding of the truck it never went past 900F.

I had to work at it Chad, but i managed 1000F on the way home.
Made the Kenworth Driver poop his pants.......he heard the noise.... looked for the big rig trying to pass him..... nothing beside him.....i let off the throttle... he looked down, and couldn't believe what he was seeing/hearing.... so i paced with him for 2 seconds...... then rolled out some black, spooled and left him there wondering what in hell?:ro)


LET HER EAT!
46 PSIG ***:44% APP
EGT:1000F
MPH=Classified as License Losing Fast!:eek:

Now... about those studs.....

What I know about turbos would fill an average sized thimble.

Who am I kidding, a SMALL thimble... ;)

But I do know that low EGT's aren't the goal. The goal is to keep everything together while moving the largest amount of air in and out of the engine.

Guys who make insane power with turbos are normally running insane EGT's. My turbo Kawasaki dragbike would make the header glow red and translucent at full boost. No idea what the EGT's were, but the hotter I got it, the faster it made boost. And that turbo was WAY too big for the motor. It didn't make any boost until at least 6,000rpm then the needle jumped to 30PSI like a tach needle when you rev the motor at a stoplight.

Turbos are kinda like cams. There is no "too big" or "too small", there is just a mismatch for the intended purpose. A small turbo will run very good but it will give up early in the RPM band, you will end up with too much backpressure, and you trap too much burned gases in the cylinder when the valve closes. Since the cylinder is already pressurized when the intake valve opens, you must overcome that pressure with even more boost, which is made by even more inefficient excessive exhaust backpressure increases. A vicious cycle isn't just a Harley with bad swingarm bushings. The small turbo will dictate what RPM's you can get away with.

Switch to a "too big turbo?" The gas pressure and temperature in the exhaust is so low at low rpm's that the turbo doesn't have the torque to compress air. You keep adding more and more air into it, and at a certain point, it goes "critical mass", it can now pressurize air, which makes more exhaust pressure and temp, which makes it pressurize air even better, so on and so forth. The needle jumps, and the engine is "pipey". Just like a cam. The problem is, you usually have to go way over your intended peak rpm to make the power you want. My little bike motor with the car turbo had a factory 9,000rpm redline, the power was gone by 9500 stock. With the too big turbo, HP did not even start to fall at 13,000, which was the limit of sanity. Too high for engine safety.

But it is not really RPM that is the issue, it's the volume of gasses going out the head, which is tied into HP; not displacement or rpm. The turbo doesn't care how big the pistons are, or how fast they move in the bores, it just cares about how much air is going through it. If you are not getting EGT's you are not working the turbo as hard as you could.

And yes, it's Beer Thirty. :D

Simple.
We are getting more load on the street than on the rollers.
It made what it made. Time for some chassis tweaks, and go from there.

Ahhh. time for bed.... not much sleep lately.

makes sense mcrat, does make some sense, just like the farm tractor when i turned the pump pressure up, i seen the turbo become more responsive from the higher heat, the turbo now would run a constant red glow, compared to before, with much better hp numbers, but a bit more draggy off the start

Guys who make insane power with turbos are normally running insane EGT's. My turbo Kawasaki dragbike would make the header glow red and translucent at full boost. No idea what the EGT's were, but the hotter I got it, the faster it made boost. And that turbo was WAY too big for the motor. It didn't make any boost until at least 6,000rpm then the needle jumped to 30PSI like a tach needle when you rev the motor at a stoplight.


The reason your bike made boost so fast was likely the small plenum, it fills up FAST! I have a simlilar setup as what (I think) you have: Rajay FF40 turbo. I ran about 26 psi which made approx 1650* F EGT. Initially I broke the ring lands on the stock cast pistons even with good (Torco 116) fuel (can you say detonation?), but I eventually went to low comp forged JE pistons, which were bulletproof. Fun stuff.

The reason your bike made boost so fast was likely the small plenum, it fills up FAST! I have a simlilar setup as what (I think) you have: Rajay FF40 turbo. I ran about 26 psi which made approx 1650* F EGT. Initially I broke the ring lands on the stock cast pistons even with good (Torco 116) fuel (can you say detonation?), but I eventually went to low comp forged JE pistons, which were bulletproof. Fun stuff.

Yes, both the plenum and the exhaust "log" had very little volume. It was a little 1977 Kaw 650 punched out to 717 with 6.9:1 pistons. Ran on pump gas. It shattered the rings from over-reving, ate a turbo (It was a Rajay, forget, 360?), destroyed a transmission, etc. But it certainly was fun. You saw God when that needle started to move.

I finally put a boost gauge in my truck and it's odd looking a boost needle that sits still while cruising.

;)

Hey juice, how come you're SES light is on if ya dont mind me asking?
Jason

Hey juice, how come you're SES light is on if ya dont mind me asking?
Jason
It is a TCC code. I never bothered to clear it. The convertor i am running (proto) always does it when first 5th gear lock happens as the delay between 'command' and lock is 3/4 second too long for the TCM's liking when the fluid is cold.

After you clear it once, you are good for the rest of the day!

What I know about turbos would fill an average sized thimble.

Who am I kidding, a SMALL thimble... ;)

But I do know that low EGT's aren't the goal. The goal is to keep everything together while moving the largest amount of air in and out of the engine.

Guys who make insane power with turbos are normally running insane EGT's. My turbo Kawasaki dragbike would make the header glow red and translucent at full boost. No idea what the EGT's were, but the hotter I got it, the faster it made boost. And that turbo was WAY too big for the motor. It didn't make any boost until at least 6,000rpm then the needle jumped to 30PSI like a tach needle when you rev the motor at a stoplight.

Turbos are kinda like cams. There is no "too big" or "too small", there is just a mismatch for the intended purpose. A small turbo will run very good but it will give up early in the RPM band, you will end up with too much backpressure, and you trap too much burned gases in the cylinder when the valve closes. Since the cylinder is already pressurized when the intake valve opens, you must overcome that pressure with even more boost, which is made by even more inefficient excessive exhaust backpressure increases. A vicious cycle isn't just a Harley with bad swingarm bushings. The small turbo will dictate what RPM's you can get away with.

Switch to a "too big turbo?" The gas pressure and temperature in the exhaust is so low at low rpm's that the turbo doesn't have the torque to compress air. You keep adding more and more air into it, and at a certain point, it goes "critical mass", it can now pressurize air, which makes more exhaust pressure and temp, which makes it pressurize air even better, so on and so forth. The needle jumps, and the engine is "pipey". Just like a cam. The problem is, you usually have to go way over your intended peak rpm to make the power you want. My little bike motor with the car turbo had a factory 9,000rpm redline, the power was gone by 9500 stock. With the too big turbo, HP did not even start to fall at 13,000, which was the limit of sanity. Too high for engine safety.

But it is not really RPM that is the issue, it's the volume of gasses going out the head, which is tied into HP; not displacement or rpm. The turbo doesn't care how big the pistons are, or how fast they move in the bores, it just cares about how much air is going through it. If you are not getting EGT's you are not working the turbo as hard as you could.

And yes, it's Beer Thirty. :D


None of this really holds true with compounded turbos. Most people running singles on diesels experience the same thing you mentioned though. The difference is the available rpm on gas motors vs. diesels but both experience lag.

Presently Juice hasn't run all out on the street. When he does he will see higher egt's I'm sure but for right now he has all the air he could want. An ample supply of air is what keeps his cruising temps low. What more could a person want? He can use all of his available fuel without high egt's. Water temps usually dictate how much of that power can be constantly used more so than egt's using twins.

Stupid question here.......isnt what pops head gaskets cylinder pressure? Dose it make a difference if your running 200 psi of boost or 10 with a bunch of spray if your still making the same power(I also assume that close to the same power=close to the same cylinder pressure regardless how you get it) this is considering the same timing and such.

Nathan,

I am trying to make sense of all the info provided on this thread. What I hear is this:

5% grade
10 PSI boost
77 mph
386 EGT's.

Turbos spool as quick or quicker than the stock LB7. Makes 40+ psi on the street quickly, etc.

Yet, there was not enough load with the Dyno Jet to make more than 35-36 psi on the rollers.

If there is so little lag and boost is so easy to make, then why do you think you had problems on the rollers? When on the dyno and running up through the gears, was it making any boost? As an example, Brandon's truck is wastegated to about 35 psi (if I remember correctly) but we make it easily starting the run at 2000 rpm in 5th. He can chime in, but I believe we make that also in 4th locked with the tech II.

The 5% grade numbers really have me confused. Those EGT's are near what most idle at. And this was acheived while pulling a grade, at 77mph with only 10 psi. It all sounds good except the EGT's. Do you think the probe is not installed properly or is bad?

I know you guys have just begun your testing but I am just trying to make some sense with the information provided.

Thanks,

ratlover,

Cylinder pressure is different with spray depending upon how it is introduced. Most twin turbos ramp at a more gradual rate than nitrous. Progessive controllers help smooth things out though.

David,

As you know twins are a little different to try and achieve good numbers from. The first issue we had was trying to keep the truck in 5th. If you ramp the fuel too hard it would downshift. If you ease into it by the time you have the pedal fully to the floor your out of rpms and the turbos haven't had the time to catch up. Twins require load and there just isn't enough without running the rpms down low. Juice's truck fuels so hard when it's hammered on I almost have to wonder if the ecm isn't pitching fits. If it wouldn't lay over at about 3000rpms the number would most likely be even higher even under the limitations we presently have.

As far as egt's go I know it is hard to believe but he has two gauges and they both read the same or resonably close. My truck runs 475* running down the highway at 70mph and about 6-8lbs of total boost. I also have two egt gauges. With the Bullydog downloader I have never seen over 1050* even towing and the truck wont slow down for anything. With the TST box and the Bullydog stacked it reaches 1250* at about 100mph on a all out run. I dont doubt the Dmaxes have better flowing heads then the Dodges and the IHI turbo is most likely a better top charger then the one I use. So despite it seeming unreasonable to most I can believe it because I have plenty of experience with the primary in question.

ratlover,

Cylinder pressure is different with spray depending upon how it is introduced. Most twin turbos ramp at a more gradual rate than nitrous. Progessive controllers help smooth things out though.

David,

As you know twins are a little different to try and achieve good numbers from. The first issue we had was trying to keep the truck in 5th. If you ramp the fuel too hard it would downshift. If you ease into it by the time you have the pedal fully to the floor your out of rpms and the turbos haven't had the time to catch up. Twins require load and there just isn't enough without running the rpms down low. Juice's truck fuels so hard when it's hammered on I almost have to wonder if the ecm isn't pitching fits. If it wouldn't lay over at about 3000rpms the number would most likely be even higher even under the limitations we presently have.

As far as egt's go I know it is hard to believe but he has two gauges and they both read the same or resonably close. My truck runs 475* running down the highway at 70mph and about 6-8lbs of total boost. I also have two egt gauges. With the Bullydog downloader I have never seen over 1050* even towing and the truck wont slow down for anything. With the TST box and the Bullydog stacked it reaches 1250* at about 100mph on a all out run. I dont doubt the Dmaxes have better flowing heads then the Dodges and the IHI turbo is most likely a better top charger then the one I use. So despite it seeming unreasonable to most I can believe it because I have plenty of experience with the primary in question.
What is the Primary you use?

I guess I will just have to see these things in action. But to me, 5% grade at 10psi and 77 mph is generating a decent load on the truck and to see under 400 degrees is hard for me to believe. Not saying it's not true, just something I have never seen myself.

Did you guys try a run in 5th at 70mph then nail it? If these turbo's spin as good as being said, I would see no problem spooling them quickly. Matt's truck with a stock HX40 on top makes boost and HP with incredible ease. I see 75-80 psi on the dyno and ~740 hp on diesel. This between a 1800 - 2000 starting point to about 3500-3600 stopping point. I would assume he is running a larger bottom charger on the bottom than you guys are on the Dmax and it lits fine. I'm just confused. Maybe you and I need to talk a little about Chargers. Time for me to learn some things?

Ditto

As per my conversations with IdahoCTD, I will be making a few minor adjustments to the system in order to give him more feedback.
Will try to adjust to bring EGT levels up a bit, and also adjust the other things to use WOT soon.
It is simply amazing what a well designed system can do. The results make the waiting worthwhile!

What is the Primary you use?

I guess I will just have to see these things in action. But to me, 5% grade at 10psi and 77 mph is generating a decent load on the truck and to see under 400 degrees is hard for me to believe. Not saying it's not true, just something I have never seen myself.

Did you guys try a run in 5th at 70mph then nail it? If these turbo's spin as good as being said, I would see no problem spooling them quickly. Matt's truck with a stock HX40 on top makes boost and HP with incredible ease. I see 75-80 psi on the dyno and ~740 hp on diesel. This between a 1800 - 2000 starting point to about 3500-3600 stopping point. I would assume he is running a larger bottom charger on the bottom than you guys are on the Dmax and it lits fine. I'm just confused. Maybe you and I need to talk a little about Chargers. Time for me to learn some things?
Have Burner Email you a video i sent him last night. That was a 5th gear run, TCC Locked Via Tech 2.
Truck revs/accelerates far too fast for a decent load to be made/spool turbos
If you get that video there is only .5 seconds where the smoke clears and the run is over due to 5th gear 3200rpms limitation.

I have to relearn how to dyno the truck.... That's the bottom line. Nathan tried the Dodge Technique, I tried my usual... no big deal... the number is what it is. On the street it makes more boost/ EGT than what we saw in over 9 dyno runs.

Juice,

I don't care what numbers you got...at least you had the balls to try this on your truck ! :ro)

We should all learn from this and try to improve on the current design.
Thanks DIESEL 5!

We are all pushing for the same things..... more power, low EGT's, quicker E.T's
Besides, it is fun to do these things when you are in the right group of enthusiasts!

That is what it's all about!:ro)

David,

I asked all around to see if anyone knew at what speed the Allison wouldn't come out of 5th but no one knew. I tried runs down low all the way up to about 70 mph and all of them downshifted if you went WOT. Honestly a couple of the first times I ran the truck I let out of it a little early because it accelerates so fast it shocked me. It's a learning curve and I'm sure we'll get it figured out soon enough.

It's hard to compare Matt's 12v to a 24v truck or a Duramax. 12v's have way more fuel then any of the other diesels out there and they typically have more rpms to play with. I was pretty surprised at how well the Big Brother combo did on my truck over the weekend though. With the 40/B2 I use to run I would only hit 56-58psi on the dyno and 75psi on the track. Now with the Big Brother combo I hit 60 psi on the dyno. The roads haven't been decent enough to test it on the street up until recently so I dont know what it'll make there yet. The torque numbers impressed me probably the most because it seems way slow to spool compared to my old combo. I did pick up my #2 numbers though (659hp and 1342 ft/lbs uncorrected).

I'm not going to say what the primary is but to my knowledge no one else has used it for a primary before me. Shortly I'll try it on my 02 to see how it does with some heavy fueling (heavy for the trucks I have anyway). I have already run 4 different twin combos on the truck so it will give me a good comparison.

ratlover,

Cylinder pressure is different with spray depending upon how it is introduced. Most twin turbos ramp at a more gradual rate than nitrous. Progessive controllers help smooth things out though.

So it can peak much harder higher or what?

Just wondering also why no WOT on the street? For fear of poping something??? Others have run more power that him with a cocktail of all kindsa stuff bolted to it with spray and havent popped anything on stock gaskets and bolts. Why the fear of a street WOT pass and what do you plan to do to fix your precieved problem and why wasnt it done to begin with? Or is it that you didnt think it would swing as much boost???

I duno MPH since it varys with tires ECT but I think 2100ish is is the lowest you can take her in TH without it downshifting.

The fact it will spool so easy on the street but you couldnt get it spooled on a dyno does have me puzzled but I dont know **** about any of this stuff. :confused:

Only 9 pulls? Someone woulda had to hook a chain to my truck to get it off the dyno if I was in juices shoes. Especially if I was trying to figure out how to get her to run and hadnt made a good pull yet. I'd be getting violent if someone tried to get my off the rollers:boxing: :horsey: :ninja:

Until I stud the heads, boost will be limited to 45 PSIGA
When the kits become available the preset limit will most likely be set by IdahoCTD... the provision is there to go much much higher..... that will be the user's own doing...
If anyone wanted to make the trek up here, to go for a ride that would be no problem.
I have lots of room.

In Fact, I will be making a trip to Kallispel MT to let some members there try it out!

Until I stud the heads, boost will be limited to 45 PSIGA

WHAT, NO JUICE GRIPS!

You need to remove them from your sig. as you are now a retired Juice grip operator.

David,

if you use a tech2 and your allison is working properly it won't come out of 4th gear locked unless the converter lets go. example- i can take my dmax on the dyno with my tech 2, lock it in 4th, wait for the TC to lock and start my test at about 33 MPH. i can put it to the floor and hit the NOS and it won't kick out. i've done this on several trucks and the only 2 that wouldn't ever hold in gear was because the TC couldn't hold the torque.

when testing i'll go out on the road, use the tech2 to command a gear, lug it down to around 33mph and hit it.. same result- it stays in gear. if you guys really can't keep his truck from downshifting maybe something is wrong with his TC given he also said it throws a SES light...

food for thought!

David,

I asked all around to see if anyone knew at what speed the Allison wouldn't come out of 5th but no one knew. I tried runs down low all the way up to about 70 mph and all of them downshifted if you went WOT. Honestly a couple of the first times I ran the truck I let out of it a little early because it accelerates so fast it shocked me. It's a learning curve and I'm sure we'll get it figured out soon enough.
give me a good comparison.

We didn't use 4th we tried 5th.

David,

if you use a tech2 and your allison is working properly it won't come out of 4th gear locked unless the converter lets go. example- i can take my dmax on the dyno with my tech 2, lock it in 4th, wait for the TC to lock and start my test at about 33 MPH. i can put it to the floor and hit the NOS and it won't kick out. i've done this on several trucks and the only 2 that wouldn't ever hold in gear was because the TC couldn't hold the torque.

when testing i'll go out on the road, use the tech2 to command a gear, lug it down to around 33mph and hit it.. same result- it stays in gear. if you guys really can't keep his truck from downshifting maybe something is wrong with his TC given he also said it throws a SES light...

food for thought!

Well I just learned something. Slipping TC results in a downshift correct? That may explain why some are more touchy than others. And is also may explain why everyone says it reved so quick but didn't get the number. If the tranny slipped, and the power wasn't transfered to the rollers, that would explain this completely.

So this raises the question: What converter were you running Juice? You or Stefan should be able to clarify whether or not this was related to the TC.

So this raises the question: What converter were you running Juice? You or Stefan should be able to clarify whether or not this was related to the TC.TC was not slipping.
If it was Chad would have felt that even more on yout street ride.
Did it slip? No.

I think there is some disappointment in the numbers as they have been presented, and i have no excuse to offer other than my unfamiliarity on how to dyno this new combination.

All i could muster on that dyno on that day was 525... I need more practice, Also need caltracs .

Blame the operator this time... not the truck.

I still laugh at the LB7 DMX with the 90 hp Juice that laid down a blistering 270RWHP number..... for comparison sake only... yes all the duramaxes were having a tough time 'loading' the dyno. In any event there was ample opportunity for other board members to come up and run this event. None but SP33D showed.

Diesel Thunder will be in August, Hope to meet more members then, and by then have the rear end and front end issues taken care of.

Juice
I would run the truck with a Tech 2 and watch tq slip first just to make sure. You won't always feel the converter slip, sometimes you have to watch the tach.

So it can peak much harder higher or what?

Just wondering also why no WOT on the street? For fear of poping something??? Others have run more power that him with a cocktail of all kindsa stuff bolted to it with spray and havent popped anything on stock gaskets and bolts. Why the fear of a street WOT pass and what do you plan to do to fix your precieved problem and why wasnt it done to begin with? Or is it that you didnt think it would swing as much boost???

I duno MPH since it varys with tires ECT but I think 2100ish is is the lowest you can take her in TH without it downshifting.

The fact it will spool so easy on the street but you couldnt get it spooled on a dyno does have me puzzled but I dont know **** about any of this stuff. :confused:

Only 9 pulls? Someone woulda had to hook a chain to my truck to get it off the dyno if I was in juices shoes. Especially if I was trying to figure out how to get her to run and hadnt made a good pull yet. I'd be getting violent if someone tried to get my off the rollers:boxing: :horsey: :ninja:


Ok so the full story goes: Until last week I have spent less than 10 days at home this year. The friend of mine I have been working for has been fairly understanding but 6 weeks gone has kinda pushed things. That being said there is only so much I can do when I was working on these trucks before I have to actually come back to reality. Both trucks I got to do test drives in but they were not "complete". Stefan and Bill then had to pick up where I left off and their schedules are full with tranny work and sales. Most of the items left to do were small but still required attention and time. I did not have time to give as much attention to boost control as I wish I could have. We were also waiting on a few parts.

I knew they would make a lot of boost but as I stated above time became a factor. Until we get everything managable then Juice is to try and keep everything at sane levels. I personally dont have any experience with the Duramax and their headgaskets so I'd like to see things kept low until I have more experience. I would rather error on the side of safety. If someone else wants to buy the kit and push things then that is up to them but the kit wont be released until things can be controlled to 45psi on our test trucks. It's a personal decision of mine and I'll stick to it because I dont want Juice or Stefan to have to potentially do a headgasket nor would I want anyone else. You have to realize that every truck is different. One might blow at 45 while the next can hold 60.

I'm not concerned with TH mode as we need the load 5th offers. We were hoping to have a lot of time on the dyno but it turned out that there were others scheduled for the dyno on Saturday morning. That left us with a little time in the afternoon. Bill wanted to run his race car and I wanted to run my truck in addition to Juices truck. When we had issues with keeping the truck in gear I deceided to try and get a Allison book and hook up a lockup switch for Sunday thinking it would cure the problem. Well as we all found out it didn't. The Allison just downshifts locked. When everything gets figured out the numbers will be higher. All of us are new to this whole thing so there is bound to be a learning curve.

A single shot of NOS can spike cylinder pressures.

When I start a dyno run I usually start at 12-1300 rpms on my twin trucks. They dont reach full power for about 1400-1600 rpms. The problem as I see it is the Duramax with the boxes Juice has wont allow full fueling above 3000 rpms and if you start a run above 2000 rpms it doesn't have the time to reach it's potential before the power is cut hence the need to be able to lock the truck in one gear and lower the starting rpms. Granted this is on a Dynojet. A load dyno would be totally different. As David said about Matt's 12v truck he runs a total of about 1800 rpms on a run and I usually go 2000 rpms. Juices truck was slightly more than half of that on the 2 good runs we had on Saturday. They spool fast but require load to get them singing.

It is so much more fun to blame the dyno for less than expected results though.....

Here is some help for a dyno excuse generator including a few of my own favorites:

My truck did not run well on this _____________ dyno (insert your favorite dyno here) because:

1. The rollers were slippery
2. The air was bad
3. I forgot to turn on the box
4. I never lit the turbo
5. It's not a load cell dyno
6. It is a load cell dyno
7. I ran the small box because if the turbos had lit the torque would have thrown the earth off of its axis
8. My heads would have come off
9. Somebody swapped a Ford 6.0 in my truck when I was not looking
10. My tranny was slipping
11. I forgot to lock the TC
12. We dynoed it in ______ (first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth) gear
13. I did not have a lift pump
14. I forgot to turn on the lift pump
15. I ran out of fuel
16. I drove the Hemi today
17. I ran the small nitrous jets
18. I ran the big nitrous jets
19. My bottle was empty
20. Somebody was using my propane to run the grill for dyno day burgers
21. My intercooler got hot
22. This dyno reads way low. My schwinn 10-speed normally lays down .3 horsepower and all we could get on this pos is .1!
23. The wrong correction factor was used
24. It was raining
25. Somebody put a bannana in my tailpipe
26. The switch was in the _______ position (left, middle, right) by mistake
27. I had way too much timing
28. We did not have a Tech II
29. My bottle pressure was way too low
30. The wastegate was set to light
31. My airfilter was plugged
32. We only installed the new injectors on one side of the engine
33. I have a stock tranny
34. It is not broken in yet
35. I used crystal meth instead of water meth. You reckon I can get my money back from those crack dealers?
36. Add your favorite here!


):h

TC was not slipping.
If it was Chad would have felt that even more on yout street ride.
Did it slip? No.

I think there is some disappointment in the numbers as they have been presented, and i have no excuse to offer other than my unfamiliarity on how to dyno this new combination.

All i could muster on that dyno on that day was 525... I need more practice, Also need caltracs .

Blame the operator this time... not the truck.

I still laugh at the LB7 DMX with the 90 hp Juice that laid down a blistering 270RWHP number..... for comparison sake only... yes all the duramaxes were having a tough time 'loading' the dyno. In any event there was ample opportunity for other board members to come up and run this event. None but SP33D showed.

Diesel Thunder will be in August, Hope to meet more members then, and by then have the rear end and front end issues taken care of.
Juice, we are not trying to trash the setup, just trying to find some logic to what happened and help. From a dyno standpoint, I am trying to figure out what happened since based on what was posted the truck has no lag, spools great etc etc. I heard that your truck reved real quick. On a Dyno Jet, that means BIG power. I think Brandon's run was about 3 seconds at 740hp. (going by memory here)

Could it be that internal pressures are so that a quick blast didn't generate enough to hold the power on the dyno. And on the street, time increases allowing for proper pressure for the TC? I don't know, not a tranny dude;) but just am trying to get a feel for what happened. But if we had quick revving of the engine without the number on the rollers, that tells me it didn't make it to the rollers. But since I wasn't there and the difference between 3 and 4 seconds is not much, this may not be an issue.

As far as the numbers go, I have the highest respect for Nathan. He does quality work from what I have seen and heard, and I'm sure these twins are a prime example of his abilities and attention to the details. But I also understand development on new products and that usually takes time. I personally wouldn't have expected a world record setting number first time out, but of course we can hope for it. :D

It is so much more fun to blame the dyno for less than expected results though.....

Here is some help for a dyno excuse generator including a few of my own favorites:

My truck did not run well on this _____________ dyno (insert your favorite dyno here) because:

1. The rollers were slippery
2. The air was bad
3. I forgot to turn on the box
4. I never lit the turbo
5. It's not a load cell dyno
6. It is a load cell dyno
7. I ran the small box because if the turbos had lit the torque would have thrown the earth off of its axis
8. My heads would have come off
9. Somebody swapped a Ford 6.0 in my truck when I was not looking
10. My tranny was slipping
11. I forgot to lock the TC
12. We dynoed it in ______ (first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth) gear
13. I did not have a lift pump
14. I forgot to turn on the lift pump
15. I ran out of fuel
16. I drove the Hemi today
17. I ran the small nitrous jets
18. I ran the big nitrous jets
19. My bottle was empty
20. Somebody was using my propane to run the grill for dyno day burgers
21. My intercooler got hot
22. This dyno reads way low. My schwinn 10-speed normally lays down .3 horsepower and all we could get on this pos is .1!
23. The wrong correction factor was used
24. It was raining
25. Somebody put a bannana in my tailpipe
26. The switch was in the _______ position (left, middle, right) by mistake
27. I had way too much timing
28. We did not have a Tech II
29. My bottle pressure was way too low
30. The wastegate was set to light
31. My airfilter was plugged
32. We only installed the new injectors on one side of the engine
33. I have a stock tranny
34. It is not broken in yet
35. Add your favorite here!


):h
:lol2:

:funnypost :lol2::ro)

:funnypost

Juice, we are not trying to trash the setup, just trying to find some logic to what happened and help. From a dyno standpoint, I am trying to figure out what happened since based on what was posted the truck has no lag, spools great etc etc. I heard that your truck reved real quick. On a Dyno Jet, that means BIG power. I think Brandon's run was about 3 seconds at 740hp. (going by memory here)

Could it be that internal pressures are so that a quick blast didn't generate enough to hold the power on the dyno. And on the street, time increases allowing for proper pressure for the TC? I don't know, not a tranny dude;) but just am trying to get a feel for what happened. But if we had quick revving of the engine without the number on the rollers, that tells me it didn't make it to the rollers. But since I wasn't there and the difference between 3 and 4 seconds is not much, this may not be an issue.

As far as the numbers go, I have the highest respect for Nathan. He does quality work from what I have seen and heard, and I'm sure these twins are a prime example of his abilities and attention to the details. But I also understand development on new products and that usually takes time. I personally wouldn't have expected a world record setting number first time out, but of course we can hope for it. :D
I know you weren't trashing anything David, I honestly feel in some ways that I let down everyone on the dyno... if my words sound harsh it is only my frustration at myself ... not directed anywhere else but me. If you want to PM me an email addy that will handle a couple of video files, I'll send them along, and we can discuss what i did wrong from there.
Obviously what i tried was not working, and maybe some suggestions from you will help me on future dynojet runs.

Thanks!
J

Juice
I would run the truck with a Tech 2 and watch tq slip first just to make sure. You won't always feel the converter slip, sometimes you have to watch the tach.
Tech 2 was used
No Slip.
Stefan was running the tech 2 right beside Nathan.

Anyhow, as stated earlier, It is my fault on the low numbers.... no question of it.

BTW thanks for the advice Nathan.... WOT on the street is now a reality.

The only downside is the sound makes everyone turn their heads......Pedestrians, Policemen.... maybe i should test it on the highway next time...... The Policeman who gave me the lecture was nice though. No Ticket, just a warning, and a suggestion that i dial in on the highway... not the industrial park.

I personally don't think it was a converter issue but I didn't see the tech 2 during the runs either.

Juice's truck flat out runs. I really would have liked to open it up all the way to 100mph to see the full potential but Juice had a long drive ahead of him and wanted to make it in his own truck. Juice's truck reminded me very much of my LB7 with nitrous. Whether the hp numbers were right or wrong the truck flat out rocked on the street. If the dyno numbers aren't accurate I too would like to know why to avoid it in the future on my own truck.

I'm very curious to see some numbers come from the ATS equipped trucks too. I think the first numbers we'll be seeing will be from a similar Dynojet. It'll be interesting to see how they compare.

The only downside is the sound makes everyone turn their heads......Pedestrians, Policemen.... maybe i should test it on the highway next time...... The Policeman who gave me the lecture was nice though. No Ticket, just a warning, and a suggestion that i dial in on the highway... not the industrial park.
You can say that again, if its anything like the single, it sounds like a semi coming full tilt:ro)

Now if it would only stop snowing, i could maybe free up some time to go and play on the dyno.........................hopefully the dyno will be more co-operative though :(

Well I guess for now we'll see how it tunes out. When do the tracks open up there? That will tell alot too.

On the run you sent Burner, was that a 2k rpm starting point or higher? If you guys started at 2500 or so, that might explain it too.

You can say that again, if its anything like the single, it sounds like a semi coming full tilt:ro)

Now if it would only stop snowing, i could maybe free up some time to go and play on the dyno.........................hopefully the dyno will be more co-operative though :(
I hear ya.... I blame myself more than anything.... it just boils down to lack of experience is all.

For the record though the TWINMAX beat out a few twinned Dodges if that is any consolation!:ro)

And that caused them no end of anguish (LOL)..... Especially the Ford owner who made a comment on my stocker Diapermax!

Well I guess for now we'll see how it tunes out. When do the tracks open up there? That will tell alot too.

On the run you sent Burner, was that a 2k rpm starting point or higher? If you guys started at 2500 or so, that might explain it too.
2350RPM when Nathan tried the Roll on IIRC

BTW there is a whole other thread discussing this

read it FWIW here

http://www.nwbombers.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=12570

Diesel Thunder will be a good place to see how everything works. I know David will be able to get these trucks to roll as well as anybody and there will hopefully be Juice's truck there and a few ATS charger trucks....

Either way, We (duramax crowd) are gonna kick some ass this year

:ro) Diesel Thunder will be a good place to see how everything works. I know David will be able to get these trucks to roll as well as anybody and there will hopefully be Juice's truck there and a few ATS charger trucks....

Either way, We (duramax crowd) are gonna kick some ass this year:ro)

I will bed there for sure, hopefully I will have a tranny by then, if I dont there is no way that I am gonna spin the rollers, -Jeff

I will bed there for sure, hopefully I will have a tranny by then, if I dont there is no way that I am gonna spin the rollers, -Jeff
BTW Jeff, I found the AFE Sock.... do you want me to send it to you or wait until ?????:o:

Brandon, I remember number 14 :p: ):h ):h

Eric you and Juice are talking about 2 different events, Juice is talking about the event in Spokane.
Does anybody know what guys are dynoing with a Standard Juice/Bullydog programmer, Stock Injectors and no lift pump? Is there anyone that has made over 500hp uncorrected.

Comparing David's dyno vs. Lenny's Dyno(the one Juice dyno on) using the same truck on both (Opie's) Davids was at least 30hp higher. I believe Opie made 738hp in Muncie, and he has only even made over 710hp once on Lenny's (711hp) and that was with tuning. On David's he just showed up and made 738hp with no tuning or nothing.

I'd bet with injectors, lift pump and a TTS extreme on Lenny's dyno Juice would easily make 600hp, has anyone else.

I say Censored the dyno numbers. Talk to some of the guys that know how to hook a Duramax up and can cut some wicked 60's, take some notes and run that b!tch down the 1320:grd:

you tellem rat!

Tell Juice bring and I'll race it.

:ro) Tell Juice bring and I'll race it.:ro)

Just get the damn things in my truck and I'll give you all the 1/4 mile times you want ;)

Just get the damn things in my truck and I'll give you all the 1/4 mile times you want ;)
LOL . Chad, are you missing your LB7 at all?

C'mon you can tell me:)

LOL . Chad, are you missing your LB7 at all?

C'mon you can tell me:)

As long as you don't tell anyone :eek:

As long as you don't tell anyone :eek:
Secret is safe with me.

BTW I see your truck is debadged..... I was thinking of doing the same thing, but i do not want challengers to think it is anything other than a DIESEL truck...

Just another slow, coal burner..... nothing special to see..... stock wheels, stock hood, no lift , small tires.... Exhaust tip will come off soon as well.

A 'Q'-Ship indeed!:ro)

I think I get a few more races without the badges. Until they see the smoke they don't have a clue :ro) Plus it just looks good!

badges?...........we don't need no stinkin badges:ro)

:Nothing_f .

.
.

Probably the most hilarious thing at the dyno event
The crowd of people looking around and under the truck trying to see/guess where the twin was located, and then in the dyno room itself.... most people were covering their ears when the twin dodges were running.... they heard my truck start its run.... and most were going to cover their ears... then decided not to.... oops..... ya, did i mention the 'EVIL TWIN' shrieks?
LOL there were some hands over ears real quick.... he he he he he

So here's a suggestion for next time:

Tech 2 on shift transmission into 4th in TH modeAt about 30mph you should be safe to "mat" it. Pull THROUGH the shift ignoring the spike, and see where you finish at the top of 5th gear...

BTW Jeff, I found the AFE Sock.... do you want me to send it to you or wait until ?????:o:
you can send it if ya want, but it would prolly be cheaper to hold on to it until?? Hmm, ever get around to Victoria, BC?? I will be up there on the 15th. Other than that It wouldnt hurt nothin to wait until Diesel Thunder or any other time you see any bombers from Spokane or surrounding areas. I am easy:D

thanks -Jeff

The wait is on..............

Juice,

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>

No body has mentioned the tire shake that was happening when the bottom turbo lit off. Did you notice it inside the cab? I know some others there watching noticed too. I will bet your dyno shows some serious chop at that point as well.

<o:p> </o:p>

You have a very impressive truck. IMHO when your bottom turbo comes on line, tire speed ramps up and the briquettes clear up just like a big shot of nitrous. With your new air supply and drive train mods I feel time will show your truck has raised the DMX bar a few big notches.

<o:p> </o:p>

See ya at the track, :cool:

<o:p> </o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

Opie

[QUOTE=Stefan K
Does anybody know what guys are dynoing with a Standard Juice/Bullydog programmer, Stock Injectors and no lift pump? Is there anyone that has made over 500hp uncorrected.



I'd bet with injectors, lift pump and a TTS extreme on Lenny's dyno Juice would easily make 600hp, has anyone else.[/QUOTE]juice dynoed this exact setup a good while back with a stock tranny and made more hp than the twins.as for injects,until somebody proves me wrong stock injects can flow all the fuel the pump can push.i hope to see someone hit 600 on motor only it sure will make things interesting

Juice made that # on Piers dyno which seems to be unaccurate at times, with the same set-up at BD's dyno he made 446hp. Other than Piers dyno I don't think I don't even think that he was within 80hp of that 543hp #.

Juice,

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

No body has mentioned the tire shake that was happening when the bottom turbo lit off. Did you notice it inside the cab? I know some others there watching noticed too. I will bet your dyno shows some serious chop at that point as well.

<o:p></o:p>

You have a very impressive truck. IMHO when your bottom turbo comes on line, tire speed ramps up and the briquettes clear up just like a big shot of nitrous. With your new air supply and drive train mods I feel time will show your truck has raised the DMX bar a few big notches.

<o:p></o:p>

See ya at the track, :cool:

<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Opie I'll be there!

As Far as BD's Dyno, when i went there last time i was suffering from the dying last efforts of a transgo to put the power to the rollers.

I we did feel some tire shake on the Dyno Opie, Definately time for traction bars of some kind.

All I can add at this point is that the truck is fast, the owner just needs to get his act together and relearn how to dyno this new setup.

Thank-you
Juice

Edit: Anyone see something funny here>?
DTT

Duramax
Twin
Turbos


LOL... there i feel better now:D

Juice said it best......... the numbers are what they are. Looks like Nathan will need to walk Juice into the twins setup and ballance them out a little better. It also looks like the Stage II trans (single disk, acc valve, extra machining?) may have a problem on the dyno? Of course it could be that the dyno is Censored ed?

One other issue I forgot to mention.
I never ran the VA 'stoopid' box.
There is a possibility of some program to program interference on the PUPXXX Stacked with my Juice.

I was thinking about that afterwards.

One other thing, it is not out of the realm of possibility that without significant loading that there is insufficient heat built up on the top charger to maintain exhaust flow velocity...... possibly a supercooled charge might cost some power?
IdahoCTD has given me answers on that, and the pursuit goes on.

Part of the "FUN?" of testing new products is discovering the combination that works best for dyno #'s , Dragracing, and sledpulling.

So to anyone who has misgivings right now, 'keep the faith'..... testing is just that... you take the good with the bad and as long as you learn and track your progress it all comes out in the wash.

No doubt in my mind it was 'Pilot Error' on the dyno. I can't seem to stress that enough.

Just as an example of what a DTT single disk TC can hold, look at the top 3 trucks they all ran a DTT TC, Lenny at 817hp, Nathan at 690hp, and Rusty at 682hp.:ro)All those TC's are over 1 year old as well.:D

One other issue I forgot to mention.
I never ran the VA 'stoopid' box.
There is a possibility of some program to program interference on the PUPXXX Stacked with my Juice.

I was thinking about that afterwards.

One other thing, it is not out of the realm of possibility that without significant loading that there is insufficient heat built up on the top charger to maintain exhaust flow velocity...... possibly a supercooled charge might cost some power?
IdahoCTD has given me answers on that, and the pursuit goes on.

Part of the "FUN?" of testing new products is discovering the combination that works best for dyno #'s , Dragracing, and sledpulling.

So to anyone who has misgivings right now, 'keep the faith'..... testing is just that... you take the good with the bad and as long as you learn and track your progress it all comes out in the wash.

No doubt in my mind it was 'Pilot Error' on the dyno. I can't seem to stress that enough.Which programming gave you the 544 hp last time? The VA stoopid box or the Pup-Juice?

You gotta have some fuel man!

Get some fuel in that thing!

Otherwise cut back the boost to 34 psi and I bet you make more power than your previous 544hp and the peak will occur higher up in the rpm range. The curve should be extra fat if it's fuel/boosted properly even at 34psi.

My truck runs out of turbo at approx. 2200 rpm. :(

I'm still suffering from Turbo Envy, but I'm used to smaller parts than everyone else, I just compensated with a long truck. :D

Which programming gave you the 544 hp last time? The VA stoopid box or the Pup-Juice?

You gotta have some fuel man!

Get some fuel in that thing!

Otherwise cut back the boost to 34 psi and I bet you make more power than your previous 544hp and the peak will occur higher up in the rpm range. The curve should be extra fat if it's fuel/boosted properly even at 34psi.

My truck runs out of turbo at approx. 2200 rpm. :(

I'm still suffering from Turbo Envy, but I'm used to smaller parts than everyone else, I just compensated with a long truck. :D

Well, I will install a new fuel filter this week, I have a feeling i am more than a little overdueCensored

I made 2 changes to both modules, so they might not be playing as nice as they once were. I'll start with the simple 'obvious stuff' first. Playing with the chargers is on the agenda, but more than likely that will wait until i book a dyno for a day.

Turbo Envy ... Man That Sucks.
"Pubic Turbo Syndrome"):h

Ah well, at least you have Tie Rod Sleeves and Cal Tracs on!
Mine will need to wait for a bit..... Stupid Money Tree is nekkid right nowCensored

Juice,

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

No body has mentioned the tire shake that was happening when the bottom turbo lit off. Did you notice it inside the cab? I know some others there watching noticed too. I will bet your dyno shows some serious chop at that point as well.

<o:p></o:p>

You have a very impressive truck. IMHO when your bottom turbo comes on line, tire speed ramps up and the briquettes clear up just like a big shot of nitrous. With your new air supply and drive train mods I feel time will show your truck has raised the DMX bar a few big notches.

<o:p></o:p>

See ya at the track, :cool:

<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Opie
Yes, we felt the shake. I don't like to mention things like that. If i did I am sure a few here would call it a 'cop-out' or an excuse, and that is not what i am about. I Still maintain Pilot Error was the main reason.


Thanks for the kind words on the Truck Opie. Next meeting you need to take it down the 1320 yourself. I did a test pass and on a nice easy 2WD launch got to 110 MPH.

The future looks bright for the Duramax gang this year!

Juice,

did you observe wheelspin in 2WD?

They are full of @#$% it is real easy to show one or two pics of the setup if it really exists until then I say they are full of @#$% PERIOD.................

They are full of @#$% it is real easy to show one or two pics of the setup if it really exists until then I say they are full of @#$% PERIOD.................
:rolleyes:

Sure, it's easy to post them and I'm sure they will when the production kits are released. A couple people, including myself, have actually seen them. I have absolutely nothing to gain by saying they do or don't exist. But, I don't need to waste my time trying to convince anyone.

sp33d,

Would you buy the kit after seeing it? :D

sp33d,

Would you buy the kit after seeing it? :D
What kit? ;)

What kit? ;)
LOL.... what is that Expression SP33D?

oh... here it is.... "Plausable Deniability"):h

Juice,

did you observe wheelspin in 2WD?
Not in 1st, but in second, third and fourth.
No wheelspin in 5th:D

Juice, I just wanted to say Great Job no matter what. You'll get her figured out soon enough!:grd:
This thread is very, very informative! I really feel priveledged just being able to 'easedrop' as you're going.
Thanks again!
Jason

They are full of it is real easy to show one or two pics of the setup if it really exists until then I say they are full of @#$% PERIOD.................
Wow.... 5 whole posts on the board and that is your conclusion?):h


Be Careful now....... One of The Dieselplace Moderators Flew down for the event just to test drive this setup.


You aren't calling him full of @#$% are you?:badidea:

Juice, I just wanted to say Great Job no matter what. You'll get her figured out soon enough!:grd:
This thread is very, very informative! I really feel priveledged just being able to 'easedrop' as you're going.
Thanks again!
Jason
This is the result of a lot of "Can-Do" thinking of a lot of people. Me, I just supplied them with my truck for 2 weeks and a vow of silence.
GM Diesel's have taken a bad rap in the past... now it is OUR TURN.
Instead of being closed minded and reflexive/combative on new ideas, we all need to take a step back and become more 'community' orientated.... this constant infighting and bickering will not help any of us in the long term if we want to challenge the Mighty Cummins Diesel!

Just my thoughts for the evening.

ON THE SUBJECT OF CATCHING THE CUMMINS
GO JUICE :grd:

:ro) ON THE SUBJECT OF CATCHING THE CUMMINS
GO JUICE :grd::ro)

Me, I just supplied them with my truck for 2 weeks and a vow of silence.


1 out of 2 aint bad huh? ):h

1 out of 2 aint bad huh? ):h


pobody's nerfect!


Besides... Stefan spoiled the suprise!:D

Not in 1st, but in second, third and fourth.
No wheelspin in 5th:D

get those pizza slicers off there and u might get some traction:lol:

get those pizza slicers off there and u might get some traction:lol:
Wonder what a set of H2 tires on the back could have done?

The extra load may help.

get those pizza slicers off there and u might get some traction:lol:
Nice..... real nice;)

To retain trailer hauling ability though taller and narrower is better!

It also retains the 'Q-Ship' look.

:Nothing_f

They are full of @#$% it is real easy to show one or two pics of the setup if it really exists until then I say they are full of @#$% PERIOD.................
Oh juice is FOS but I'm still willing to bet he has twins;)

:joke: juice

Instead of being closed minded and reflexive/combative on new ideas, we all need to take a step back and become more 'community' orientated.... this constant infighting and bickering will not help any of us in the long term if we want to challenge the Mighty Cummins Diesel!

Just my thoughts for the evening.
I agree but I dont think its the cummins that we should be trying to challenge. They burn #2 just like us.....:cool:

This is the result of a lot of "Can-Do" thinking of a lot of people. Me, I just supplied them with my truck for 2 weeks and a vow of silence.
GM Diesel's have taken a bad rap in the past... now it is OUR TURN.
Instead of being closed minded and reflexive/combative on new ideas, we all need to take a step back and become more 'community' orientated.... this constant infighting and bickering will not help any of us in the long term if we want to challenge the Mighty Cummins Diesel!

Just my thoughts for the evening.
Maybe a Cummins guy or two can help. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/grd.gif

I still have this crazy idea about getting some real sticks in the DMAX one day.

Don~

I need sticks in my D-Max Don, after seeing the power you got outta Brandon Carmichaels truck I want some of those.:eek:

Ah yeah!! Brandons still has more. No BS. He ran in 3rd gear and we need to tweak a bit. 650? 675? I would go out on a limb at this point and say yes.

I actually worked a bit today on the DMAX sticks. I have some really good ideas in the works.

The DMAX is going places very soon. A little fuel and a little air and the package for 600 plus plus plus RWHP is cake.

I have you in mind Stephanhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif

Don~

I need sticks in my D-Max Don, after seeing the power you got outta Brandon Carmichaels truck I want some of those.:eek:

Fuel Jealous are we?;)

OK i must have missed something...WTF are "sticks"? LOL

OK i must have missed something...WTF are "sticks"? LOLsticks are after market injects and as of right now with programming being able to drain rail pressure unti;l the hpop is modified which is close to being done injects are a big waste of money imho.now after the pump tweaking is done il prolly have a different opinion.....:cool:

Everyone thought the sticks we built for the Common Rail Cummins would never make the extra HP. Cummins shares the same CP-3 pump and the same basic design of injectors as the DMAX.

This past week we cranked a solid 623 HP on a DynoJet with Diesel Only, uncorrected and using some twins similar in flow rates to Juices. This is with a stick that is still not optimal and we did it in 3rd gear, not OD. We are finding a run with OD and the converter locked we get better numbers. The owner of the truck is still learning.

Using good twin turbos and an injector modeled around the Cummins, we can have the Dmax over 650 HP on Diesel only using the stock fuel delivery system (CP-3, rails, etc)

Add in some nitrous and look out.


Don~

proper programming and stock injects can keep the fuel rail pressure from keeping up so i dont see how bigger holes will help that problem,hope it does.as for the cummins pump the guy that is working on my pumps fopr my 05 dodge and the dmax says the dmax pump is a good bit better than the dodge. but both still can be improved.and i wont argue that air is a big factor but with pumped in air and stock injects a dmax can make over 700 hp easily.as far as the dodges go i think you are a big fan of the tst power max if the posts i have read are corerwect,and tst doesnt feel injects will add more than 40 hp to the numbers,that is great you have made over 600,i look forward to the dmax injects and you proving me wrong,its only my opinion and no offence was meant.also on a dyno jet arnt hp numbers usually bettr in 1-1 and torque numbers better in od?

Jess

Yes they are higher in OD on a dyno jet

Well, after a few days driving, I can say one thing for sure.
My BANKS Exhaust is now -6dB quieter on an A weighted scale!
In fact i had to double check on my brothers truck just to be sure!

I guess i will have to Ditch the muffler now..... the exhaust note is slightly deeper in tone, and barely louder than a stock DMX at WOT.

What is real different is when up on the pipe and wailin' , you can reel in a Camaro LT-1 like it has a fuel leak!

Fun.... you bet.... with all the fun though I can't give any real feedback on in town mileage.... it seems that every tunnel, building, semi trailer all make the right foot press down to hear the big momma spool up.

Believe it or not, one tank averaged out to 10MPG (US) it was so fun.


My Name Is Juice.
and I AM a BOMBaholic!

I still say this....:nopics:
This has just about been going on long enough. Post some pics or let it die...Censored


:rant:

proper programming and stock injects can keep the fuel rail pressure from keeping up so i dont see how bigger holes will help that problem,hope it does.as for the cummins pump the guy that is working on my pumps fopr my 05 dodge and the dmax says the dmax pump is a good bit better than the dodge. but both still can be improved.and i wont argue that air is a big factor but with pumped in air and stock injects a dmax can make over 700 hp easily.as far as the dodges go i think you are a big fan of the tst power max if the posts i have read are corerwect,and tst doesnt feel injects will add more than 40 hp to the numbers,that is great you have made over 600,i look forward to the dmax injects and you proving me wrong,its only my opinion and no offence was meant.also on a dyno jet arnt hp numbers usually bettr in 1-1 and torque numbers better in od?
Hey Big King,

Thanks for the reply

We see the best numbers, either HP or TQ with the DynoJet when we use OD. Perhaps the Twins like the extra time to compound and the big chargers like the time to overcome moment of inertia.

IMO, the Dmax with its extra 40 Cubic Inches and the 2 extra crankshaft inputs has the HP advantage over the Cummins CR engines. I am betting with some tweaks we can get these 8 cylinders into the 675 range using twins and big ol EDM injectors.

BTW, the injection pumps deliver the same amount of fuel in either engine. Both use a 3 x 7.5mm radial plunger assembly and I would bet you could bolt either one to either engine. They may even be the same part numberhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/rockon.gif

Don~

I still say this....:nopics:
This has just about been going on long enough. Post some pics or let it die...Censored


:rant:
Someone needs their diaper changed http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/hihi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/hihi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/hihi.gif

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by king d.also on a dyno jet arnt hp numbers usually bettr in 1-1 and torque numbers better in od?


Hey Big King,

Thanks for the reply

We see the best numbers, either HP or TQ with the DynoJet when we use OD. Perhaps the Twins like the extra time to compound and the big chargers like the time to overcome moment of inertia.

IMO, the Dmax with its extra 40 Cubic Inches and the 2 extra crankshaft inputs has the HP advantage over the Cummins CR engines. I am betting with some tweaks we can get these 8 cylinders into the 675 range using twins and big ol EDM injectors.

BTW, the injection pumps deliver the same amount of fuel in either engine. Both use a 3 x 7.5mm radial plunger assembly and I would bet you could bolt either one to either engine. They may even be the same part number

Don~

i c your point i have tried the od lockout and gotten better hp numbers but we get better tq in od,also since 01 and 02s cant lock out od with out a tech 2 we always use od as well,i can see the extra stress supplied by od helping light your compounds as well.as far as injection pumps go,i honestly cant argue with you on it only stateing what i was told by the guy that is helping me build my 05 dodge.i too believe those hp numbers are attainable but i dont think it will take a big ole set of injects,perhaps a set of edms that are set for stock flow,so all the holes and spray patterns will be perfectly alike and in return should cause better atomization and beturn net hp return.i still cant understand how bigger holes can help you put more fuel through something that cant suplly enough push pressure in the first place..once again you are the injector guy and prolly have a different if not better understanding of what is going on with theses tracks.i will try to get a chance and call this weel so we can talk off the boards...jess

Bottom Line Is You Need To Post Some Pics Or Personally I Thing You Are Full Of Sh@#. So Please Prove Me Wrong. Because I Say That You Are Lying, And The Only Way That You Can Prove Me Or Anyone Else Wrong Is If You Post Your Pictures Of The Setup.

Bottom Line Is You Need To Post Some Pics Or Personally I Thing You Are Full Of Sh@#. So Please Prove Me Wrong. Because I Say That You Are Lying, And The Only Way That You Can Prove Me Or Anyone Else Wrong Is If You Post Your Pictures Of The Setup.
Yep...it's all a bunch of lies.....Juice has nothing better to do than to think of things that will start a topic...Nope, no twins exist..Not possible on the duramax....Aluminum heads won't take the pressure.....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/blahblah.gif
Do you need a picture of everything to believe that it exists?

I dont think Juice will loose any sleep at night over what you think.

I saw this truck run in person and I guarantee there's somthing special going on under that hood.

Most of the people that attended the dyno day know they exist. The killer whistle was a dead giveaway. Proving they exist with pictures really is not a big deal. Enough "other" people have seen them to verify they exist and if you believe all these people are flat out lieing than that's not my problem.

Bottom Line Is You Need To Post Some Pics Or Personally I Thing You Are Full Of Sh@#. So Please Prove Me Wrong. Because I Say That You Are Lying, And The Only Way That You Can Prove Me Or Anyone Else Wrong Is If You Post Your Pictures Of The Setup.
I don't Lie and find it offensive that you think i do.
Your childish attempts at goading pictures out of me will serve no purpose other than to demonstrate your own lack of patience.

You want to fly up and take a look? Fine, PM me and I'll send you my addresse, Pick you up at Spokane Washington's Airport.

You still will not get any pics, but then you can see them for yourself.

So.

You Call me a Liar or FOS, Put YOUR money where your MOUTH is.
And that WILL prove you are WRONG!

As Far as proving it to anyone else here, that has been done already. SP33D made the trip... try to read all the posts before you spew any more useless gibberish.

Thanks
J

I say your're not even here Juice. I think this 'enter'net is the real world and everything outside of it is just random computer programs. Heck Juice, you don't exist.....so how does your truck exist. All you are is a conscious thought...... not even real. .........sheeeeesh, who you kid'n :rolleyes:

I say your're not even here Juice. I think this 'enter'net is the real world and everything outside of it is just random computer programs. Heck Juice, you don't exist.....so how does your truck exist. All you are is a conscious thought...... not even real. .........sheeeeesh, who you kid'n :rolleyes:
Yup / BUSTED!):h

Bottom Line Is You Need To Post Some Pics Or Personally I Thing You Are Full Of Sh@#. So Please Prove Me Wrong. Because I Say That You Are Lying, And The Only Way That You Can Prove Me Or Anyone Else Wrong Is If You Post Your Pictures Of The Setup.
Some Peoples Kids!!!.......

I believe juice... but then again, I'm gullible :)

I believe juice... but then again, I'm gullible :)
:exactly::Nothing_f

some people don't have any faith..... no wonder they don't go to church. sheeeeeeeeesh they can believe anything unless they see it..... well they will be mighty disappointed when they see hell. i believe j and everyone else that says they have seen them. ....................



then again i am really gullible for believing twins exhist on a dmax as well as the fact that there is a god.):h ):h ):h :muahaha:

Like I said before it is real easy to post some pics. Until then you are FOS..... Also I always love those guys that have to throw something in about religion. Because I want somebody to prove what they are saying That means that i dont believe in God. What is the matter with you people? What is wrong with wanting somebody to PROVE what they are saying. And you saying why dont you fly up here and see it is just another way of you getting out of posting a picture. Bottom line is that if it is true then a picture will be posted and if it isnt then you will keep talking about it with all of the gullible people on this site. You need to start your own cult with the way you got everybody following you. In a few years I will see you guys on T.V. in the middle of nowhere in a building surrounded by diesel trucks with the F.B.I getting ready to burn your ass out. So before alot of people get hurt do everybody a favor post a picture and quit wasting thier time.

Uh.....jf2500hd, If you have not noticed..... he isn't allowed to post pictures. The team that built the twins asked him not to reviel "any" pictures of their set-up until the final design was finished. Juice is just trying to give us some info here and there. If you don't like the tease, which it is, then don't read the stuff.:banghead: ....... Seeing you winne, it's just silly. It's like....well, it's like...it's like you walking down the street, going 'into' a strip joint and complaining about the naked women?:chillpill Why did you go in in the first place? Censored :wtf:

Like I said before it is real easy to post some pics. Until then you are FOS..... Also I always love those guys that have to throw something in about religion. Because I want somebody to prove what they are saying That means that i dont believe in God. What is the matter with you people? What is wrong with wanting somebody to PROVE what they are saying. .
Because I am a Man of my word. I gave my word that the twins do exist. One member flew down to take in the whole experience. (Said member was also a bit suprised when i told him to get in and drive lol) I also gave my word to not post pictures or take any. Maybe it doesn't mean anything to you, to give your word, either to do or not to do something, but it has to do with a code of honour, ethics and conduct. This world we live in could use more of that in my opinion.
Because you cannot grasp this simple concept I would suggest that you do not follow this path; and therefore any explaination of a persons word being their bond would be, in fact like talking to a brick wall with you.

Peace Out
Juice

Bottom Line Is You Need To Post Some Pics Or Personally I Thing You Are Full Of Sh@#. So Please Prove Me Wrong. Because I Say That You Are Lying, And The Only Way That You Can Prove Me Or Anyone Else Wrong Is If You Post Your Pictures Of The Setup.

:funnypost :drinking: TO MUCH I GUESS :cookoo: :eyecrazy: :sheephump

Juice does not need to prove anything to anybody. What is so unbelievable about twins? Personally, I do not need pictures for proof as the discussion is proof enough. :crazy: It is all very cool. I would love to do this stuff to my truck but I could never afford it. I am also skeered it would blow up my drive train, though it would be cool!! If any distributors want to test out a torque converter and a set of clutches on an Alli with 150,000 miles on it, I'm your man! :ro)

jf2500hd..........you can catch an America West flight to Spokane from Houston for $400 round trip.

Do you remember that old proverb your momma told you? The one about first impressions? Well, you're making a bad one......:Nonono:
We don't call Juice the "Beta Test Whore" for nothing!! :ro) He's a Lucky SOB!!!

So shut up, and give the boys from DTT time to perfect this. It'll happen......


Tom :pig:

WHAT ROCK DID DILDOFOUS CRAWL OUT FROM UNDER??? :confused: