Anyone Got Any Tips On Getting A Stock 2007+ Allison Tranny To Shift Quicker And Firmer..

Im Using A Big Power Tune But Its Got Stock Tranny Settings

Also How Do I Disable Defueling During Shifts

From my understanding you would need to lower the numbers in the trans max tq table under transmission tq management in the areas where you would like to defuel.

Anyone Got Any Tips On Getting A Stock 2007+ Allison Tranny To Shift Quicker And Firmer.

yep, suncoast or ATS.

yep, suncoast or ATS.


Ben, now that is funny stuff.:D

i dont want to defule during shifts i want to stop it from defueling....

also, i was it to shift firmer and quicker...

i know these are all do-able items i just need to know how

Sorry my misunderstanding, try looking into adjusting the desired tq table under engine-tq management-engine torque model as well as the injector PW vs. fuel quantity vs. fuel pressure as well as your main pulse timing tables when it comes to LBZ calibrations.

From my understanding you would need to lower the numbers in the trans max tq table under transmission tq management in the areas where you would like to defuel.

Bills right here, just do the opposite to get rid of defuel on the shift.

Nick

i dont want to defule during shifts i want to stop it from defueling....

also, i was it to shift firmer and quicker...

i know these are all do-able items i just need to know how


getting rid of defuel is not the answer. You will kill your trans in no time and its going to shift terribly.

So What Is The Answer.. Like All Stock Vehicles You Hit The Gas And It Lags While It Waits To Shift

I Had This Tuned Out In My Trans Am So I Know It Can Be Done...


I Know It Involves Raisng The Downshift Thresholds And Bumping The Pressure And Reducing Desired Shift Time Along With Force Motor Settings..

But I Dont Know Exactly What Tables And How Much..

So What Is The Answer.. Like All Stock Vehicles You Hit The Gas And It Lags While It Waits To Shift

I Had This Tuned Out In My Trans Am So I Know It Can Be Done...


I Know It Involves Raisng The Downshift Thresholds And Bumping The Pressure And Reducing Desired Shift Time Along With Force Motor Settings..

But I Dont Know Exactly What Tables And How Much..


the answer is build your trans, as I said above in my first post.


the allison is NOT the 4L60 in your trans am, and the dmax is NOT the LS1 in your trans am. What worked in that will not work with your dmax, so no, it cant be done.

the ONLY WAY TO INCREASE PRESSURE AND FIRM UP SHIFTS IN AN ALLISON IS TO PULL IT APART, thats just the way it is. :(

trying to gain something from the allison via tuning is trying to get water from a stone

Ben



if you still dont beleive me, completely remove the defuel, and change all the shift timing tables to 0 ms and see what happends.........................

Ben,

Does the copiloet help with this for the 06's?????


the answer is build your trans, as I said above in my first post.


the allison is NOT the 4L60 in your trans am, and the dmax is NOT the LS1 in your trans am. What worked in that will not work with your dmax, so no, it cant be done.

the ONLY WAY TO INCREASE PRESSURE AND FIRM UP SHIFTS IN AN ALLISON IS TO PULL IT APART, thats just the way it is. :(

trying to gain something from the allison via tuning is trying to get water from a stone

Ben



if you still dont beleive me, completely remove the defuel, and change all the shift timing tables to 0 ms and see what happends.........................

i wouldent put 0 in there but why cant you bump up your line prressure to get a firmer shift?, and i would tihnk changeing the desired shift time would make it quicker...

the allison is still just a transmission

i wouldent put 0 in there but why cant you bump up your line prressure to get a firmer shift?, and i would tihnk changeing the desired shift time would make it quicker...

the allison is still just a transmission


you're still not listening to me. :rolleyes:

the allison is NOT just any transmission. It is completely unique in the way it works. It has NOTHING IN COMMON WITH ANY OTHER AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION.

Its like saying "well increasing the spark advance worked well on my firebird and gave me a ton of extra power, so why the hell wont increasing the spark advance on my duramax make extra power, the duramax is still just an engine"

see what Im getting at?

GO into your TCM file and find me the table that "controls line pressure" and show me which numbers to change to increase that line pressure and make it hold lots of extra hp over stock without taking it apart and changing hard parts inside. Look for it right now, Ill wait.......

ben

Ben,

Does the copiloet help with this for the 06's?????

as far as I know I dont think so. Let mike give a definitive answer on this though because I dont know for sure.



If you want to make your allison hold extra power you have three options.

a) take the transmission apart and build it
b) take the transmission apart and build it
c) take the transmission apart and build it

there is no free lunch. You cant get something for nothing. ;)

Yes the co-pilot will help, but not the answer. A trans-go-jr and co-pilot will help greatly. Try resetting the tap cells with a Tech-2 if you have access to one. Trying to pump up a stock allison will only quicken it's rebuild.:(

Yes the co-pilot will help, but not the answer. A trans-go-jr and co-pilot will help greatly. Try resetting the tap cells with a Tech-2 if you have access to one. Trying to pump up a stock allison will only quicken it's rebuild.:(



Efi live & Hptuner both can also reset the taps. How does that increase the hp the tranny can hold? I am not looking for big power yet... I was just asking about the copiot option.. I am after mileage now a days....

The Efi Live Guys Seem To Be Makeing Some Progress In This Area Its Just Hard To Translate Their Mumbo Jumbo Into Hpt Terms

According To Them...you Can Adjust Defule And Pressure And Shorten Shift Times... If It Will Actually Prolong A Tranny Life......i Cant Say

According To Them...you Can Adjust Defule And Pressure And Shorten Shift Times... If It Will Actually Prolong A Tranny Life......i Cant Say

show me where they say this? Nobody is making any progress with TCM tuning because its not possible to make the trans hold more power via tuning alone.


I can say if it will prolong the tranny life or not...


it wont.



I already suggested to remove all your defuel and lower all the shift timing and see what happends. ;)

ok

i know removing defule isnt a good idea for longevity

but i may end up playing around with shift times...

although it seems incredbally complicated to mess with tis tranny some people seem to be getting somewhere with electronically improving the shifts... i dont know if this will result in more holding power but it may just reduce the dam lag i currrently get...

off hand i know just moving up the wot downshift points a little should help the turbo spool a little faster .. alhtough this aint gonna do shit from a dig

to clarify im not necessiarily looking oto make the trans more strong im just tring to reduce shift lag

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Anyone Got Any Tips On Getting A Stock 2007+ Allison Tranny To Shift Quicker And Firmer..

Im Using A Big Power Tune But Its Got Stock Tranny Settings

Also How Do I Disable Defueling During Shifts

I really think that is going to be your biggest hurdle right there.

although it seems incredbally complicated to mess with tis tranny some people seem to be getting somewhere with electronically improving the shifts... i dont know if this will result in more holding power but it may just reduce the dam lag i currrently get...

show me where "people are getting somewhere"

I already told you if it will increase holding power or not. It wont.

You still havent listened to one word I said. The allison is SUPPOSED to "lag" and shift like a cadillac. If you have an allison that bangs/slams out the gears like a built 4L60 or 4L80 you have SERIOUS problems and risk exploding the case and hard parts. Do some research on how a clutch-to-clutch transmission works. The transmission NEEDS time to shift, and if you want to keep the transmission alive, it should be shifting smoothly.

Go play with the shift timing and see where it gets you. Cut it all down to 50ms or so, that will get you those firm shifts you're looking for, Ill be waiting in the "allison OEM" forum section for your post on "wtf my POS allison blew up" post. :D

Ben

show me where "people are getting somewhere"

I already told you if it will increase holding power or not. It wont.

You still havent listened to one word I said. The allison is SUPPOSED to "lag" and shift like a cadillac. If you have an allison that bangs/slams out the gears like a built 4L60 or 4L80 you have SERIOUS problems and risk exploding the case and hard parts. Do some research on how a clutch-to-clutch transmission works. The transmission NEEDS time to shift, and if you want to keep the transmission alive, it should be shifting smoothly.

Go play with the shift timing and see where it gets you. Cut it all down to 50ms or so, that will get you those firm shifts you're looking for, Ill be waiting in the "allison OEM" forum section for your post on "wtf my POS allison blew up" post. :D

Ben

I understand what you are getting at sort of. I searched and couldn't finding anything online explaining how an allison works. I remember going through transmission at college but I never got to go through an allison. Do you have a link or could you explain the main difference you are talking about?

an allison works by clutch to clutch application. this meaning that you have to apply two different sets of clutch packs to get a given gear. there are five clutch packs in side the tranny. apllying different combonations of clutches will get you different gears. there are two trim valves that control the line pressure to the clutches. a trim valve and b trim valve. these are the two that actuall out the pressure to the clutches. then you have shift sylonoids c,d,e,and f. they get the tranny ready to make the shift when it is time. what ben is talking about is at this point you have to have so much time from when one clutch pack goes off to when the other one comes on. or you will get a tie up. not good. so lets say you are shifting from 2nd to 3rd. c1 clutches are on all the time for 1st through 4th gear. so in second gear the other clutch that is on are the c2's i think. comes time for 3rd gear. c2's have to go off before the c3's can come on or you will have a tie up and probably break something. sorry for the long post

I guess I understood all that but what duratothemax was getting at is a stock trans won't take the hard shifts moreless right? As long as the hard parts could take it you should beable to slam the gears as hard as you want, as lond as two wrong clutches aren't applied at the same time. We run clutch to clutch trannies in trucks at work. They are trucks that haul 250 tons of coal and they slam harder than anything I have ever riden in. But they have to have quick shifts otherwise they would never make the shifts up the hills when they are going 5 miles perhour.

not wit a stock tranny because the stock clutces are junk. well not junk for a stock truck . but you really dont want them to close because tie up is going to happen

Why do the shift times in the allison do some wierd things. With first gear it seems normal it is long then gets shorter as tps rises, but with other gear changes it gets quicker at mid throttle then gets longer at full throttle? Then on the 2-3, 3-4 the shift time is really short at low tps then gets longer as tps goes up?

Why do the shift times in the allison do some wierd things. With first gear it seems normal it is long then gets shorter as tps rises, but with other gear changes it gets quicker at mid throttle then gets longer at full throttle? Then on the 2-3, 3-4 the shift time is really short at low tps then gets longer as tps goes up?


basically, because the allison is just a wierd/unpredictable tranny in general when you upgrade the power...

Yeah it does do that, but I am talking about the shift times on the stock TCM tune when I look at it with efilive?

an allison works by clutch to clutch application. this meaning that you have to apply two different sets of clutch packs to get a given gear. there are five clutch packs in side the tranny. apllying different combonations of clutches will get you different gears. there are two trim valves that control the line pressure to the clutches. a trim valve and b trim valve. these are the two that actuall out the pressure to the clutches. then you have shift sylonoids c,d,e,and f. they get the tranny ready to make the shift when it is time. what ben is talking about is at this point you have to have so much time from when one clutch pack goes off to when the other one comes on. or you will get a tie up. not good. so lets say you are shifting from 2nd to 3rd. c1 clutches are on all the time for 1st through 4th gear. so in second gear the other clutch that is on are the c2's i think. comes time for 3rd gear. c2's have to go off before the c3's can come on or you will have a tie up and probably break something. sorry for the long post

Hmm, That sounds like how any other trans would work, What is so different?

LP is controlled bleed by solenoid no?

And you have multiple clutches connected to different parts of a couple sun gears, with a solenoid to every clutch?

I'm not saying anyone's wrong, I just want to know what is so special about these Allison's, and what you would need to modify mechanically inside the trans. It is intriguing.
When I tore one apart (in school) I hadn't noticed any governors or springs. Now that I think about it, I suppose a soft accumulator spring might need to be changed to quicken shifts.

In an "gas" based trans they usually have several planetary type gear reduction units. In a 700-R4 based trans there are two main planetaries with one engaged you have a 3.06 gear reduction. For second gear the shell is "grabbed" by the second gear band which changes to a 1.56 gear ration. Then the second planetary is engaged via a clutch pack to make a 1 to 1 gear. Then the 4th gear band grabs the shell on the 3/4 gear pack for an overdriven .72 ratio. All of these shifts can happen very quickly because the last gear is never disengaged. In an allison almost every shift is switching from plenetary to the next, meaning that the one planetary MUST be completely disengaged before the next is engaged. This happens as fast as possible given the clutch material and weight of the components. You just can't rush this without tieing up the two planetaries.

The main problem I see with getting an allison to live is not getting the clutches to hold or the hard parts to stay in one piece. We've got that figure out, it's the transistion from one gear to the next. We just don't have the ECM's figured out enough or the train of thought to realize that if we just leave the torque control in place the trans will live. Keep the power off while it shifts and it will hold a ton of power.

Hmm, That sounds like how any other trans would work, What is so different?

LP is controlled bleed by solenoid no?

no


And you have multiple clutches connected to different parts of a couple sun gears, with a solenoid to every clutch?

no

I just want to know what is so special about these Allison's, and what you would need to modify mechanically inside the trans. It is intriguing.
When I tore one apart (in school) I hadn't noticed any governors or springs. Now that I think about it, I suppose a soft accumulator spring might need to be changed to quicken shifts.

you're still stuck in generic auto-trans theory and tech. Buy an allison description and operation manual and read it cover to cover. ;)

ben

Buy an allison description and operation manual and read it cover to cover. ;)

ben

Aww, I cant get for free what some people spend thousands of dollars to know? :D