I am looking to run biodiesel in my truck now too ($4.25/us gallon vs $4.59+). My truck is a 1993 K2500 6.5 , is there anything I need besides a few fuel filters on hand to catch the crud built up from 15 years of petro? I figured you guys would know.....

you might have to replace all your fuel lines. i'm not sure when the lines were switched over for the new diesel fuel. also i've heard that biodiesel is harder on injection pumps than regular pump diesel and therefore will shorten the life of your injection pump. thats just what i've heard however. biodiesel alsmot has about 10% less BTUs per gallon so you'll have lower fuel mileage.

biodiesel alsmot has about 10% less BTUs per gallon so you'll have lower fuel mileage.

That's a good point to keep in mind. Assuming that 10% difference is correct, the bio will actually cost you more money per mile than regular diesel (based on the price/gallon you quoted above).

Bio is supposed to be MUCH better on your IP than ULSD. Where ULSD has about as much lubricincy as sandpaper, bio is slipperier than snot. The biggest problems I see with bio is it gells at a lower temp than #1/#2 winter blend, and the ingriedients (methanol/lye) can be harder to find in some area's. Needless to say, I need to get the $$ to build me a processor. I however want to know where you're getting $4.25/gallon. Everything I've read estimates 1-2 bucks/gallon (US).

he's talking about buying BIo,,, from the pumps, If you make it,, as I do,, my last batch cost me in materials,,, about $1.10 per gallon,, I have a 94 and my truck loves it, You won't notice the less fuel mileage either,, because your wallet will thicker,, you won't care. it is more like 7 or 8 % less btu's but the extra lubricity in the fuel will make thinks Much quiter, and happpier. Go here: http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/biodieselprocessorkit.php
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums
and start reading,,, you'll be happy you did!
First thing is to find some oil supplies,, and then start making the Juice!

Before I got orders to go to Germany I was about to purchase a Bio kit to make my own. I had a resturant that was going to give me their old cooking oil. I had a spot in my garage to make the stuff and was all set. It is not even sold here in Germany. Since I am from Texas I could have used it year round. Not much longer and I will try to get my kit again.

X2 on the sliprier than snot. It will lubricate MUCH better (ULSD had to have lubricants added). However.....bio is VERY much a cleaning agent : it will scour your entire fuel system and do it very rapidly, then it should be ok.

The newer fuel lines are made out of VITON, look for the stock lines to start to degrade after a while, just not immediately...you got some time. Hope this helps,

Dieselpro and Accurate Diesel both said Bio and WVO has been good for there business.IP rebuilders.

Nationfam,

You're lucky to be in a warm part of the world. Are you looking at B99 or B100 - or a lesser blend like B20? I jumped in to biodiesel about 5 years ago, first with some local home brew that varied a lot in quality, more recently with B20 from the pump (same $ as petro here). Experiences & thoughts:
- If you're running B20, a few fuel filter changes should be all you need. Keep an eye on fuel lines.
- Lubricity with bio is great, but sometimes does not make up greater viscosity in the fuel at the 80% - 100% levels, even in warm weather. I ended up with a very beefed up fuel delivery system: Lift pump control harness / relay to take the electrical current load off the Oil Pressure Switch. A heavy duty lift pump with 2nd filter on the frame rail. Larger 1/2" diameter fuel line from tank to lift pump, using a separate tube pickup in the tank. - The nylon mesh filter sock in the tank swelled up & restricted flow early on. I'm sure I spent too much, but the truck's fuel delivery has been rock solid for the last 3 years. Some of my problems (stalling, dead OPS and lift pumps) were probably aggravated by lousy fuel.
- If you're making the jump to more than B20, I'd suggest at least the OPS upgrade with a 2nd fuel filter at the lift pump, even if you keep the stock lift pump. Also: Keep an eye on the fuel lines and be prepared to drop the tank if the sock plugs up starving the truck for fuel.

I always get a kick out of these threads when they start on Biodiesel.Do your research on it to find out the info about it and do not resort to someone that heard from their second cousin who once worked on a diesel and heard from his first cousin on his Mothers side that maybe just maybe he thought he had heard from his uncle that Bio was bad for diesel trucks to run,thought maybe that it wrecked injector pumps,made the exhaust smell funny,caused great concerns on the farm and he was sure it caused all of his hogs to go sterile and just maybe it had something to do with the hens stopped laying also! Research,research and more research,solid concrete research and not hearsay.:D

I always get a kick out of these threads when they start on Biodiesel.Do your research on it to find out the info about it and do not resort to someone that heard from their second cousin who once worked on a diesel and heard from his first cousin on his Mothers side that maybe just maybe he thought he had heard from his uncle that Bio was bad for diesel trucks to run,thought maybe that it wrecked injector pumps,made the exhaust smell funny,caused great concerns on the farm and he was sure it caused all of his hogs to go sterile and just maybe it had something to do with the hens stopped laying also! Research,research and more research,solid concrete research and not hearsay.:D


I'd say DieselPro knows what he's talking about, considering what he does. needless to say i'm convinced that paying for pump diesel is still cheaper than buying a new or rebuilt IP by using bio-diesel.

I wasn't questioning Dieselpro's knowledge of the subject but just stating to do research and come up with their own answers on it.If Bio really kills IP then why do the studies suggest you run a minimum of 5% when running ULSD to replace the lubricity lost to the low sulfur diesel? All test and studies have shown it to not be harmful to IP providing you have a quality product to begin with.I am sure if you had some water left in the Bio it could screw up an injector but it would do the same in diesel too.With diesel approaching 5.00 a gallon we all have to decide which direction we are going to go on this but all I am saying is do the research first before reaching a conclusion.Whether you run 5.00 diesel or VWO or whatever combination you decide on ,I will continue to run my 80 cents a gallon Biodiesel.:cool:

Maybe I've missed something, but I've never seen any mention of an IP being screwed up by bio. I did however, see DP say one time that some SVO mixtures can do a doozy on an IP.

I wasn't questioning Dieselpro's knowledge of the subject but just stating to do research and come up with their own answers on it.If Bio really kills IP then why do the studies suggest you run a minimum of 5% when running ULSD to replace the lubricity lost to the low sulfur diesel? All test and studies have shown it to not be harmful to IP providing you have a quality product to begin with.I am sure if you had some water left in the Bio it could screw up an injector but it would do the same in diesel too.With diesel approaching 5.00 a gallon we all have to decide which direction we are going to go on this but all I am saying is do the research first before reaching a conclusion.Whether you run 5.00 diesel or VWO or whatever combination you decide on ,I will continue to run my 80 cents a gallon Biodiesel.:cool:

i thikn its the pure bio B75 and above you've got to worry about more so. a little bit in the USLD i don't think will hurt it. i was going to run b100 myself so i'm looking into an oil storage tank to mix 75 pump diesel 25 bio.

I have a friend that produces bio diesel, about 1,000,000 litres per year plant. He runs bio in every diesel he has. Not b100 mind you, but a percentage. I have run it in my truck and would never ever say that would cause engine or IP damage. If anything it will lengthen the life of it. I can just here the engine quiet down and it just feels like everything is running smoother. Also bio diesel has a proven cetane rating higher than petro diesel. Don't be afraid of bio, and I do believe that the switch to the viton rubber from butyl rubber was made in 1993. Double check with your own research, don't take my word for it. Expect to change you fuel filter every 5 to 10k kms due to the bio cleaning up your fuel delivery system at first. Its the wave of the future boys!

I am saving between $5000 and $6000 a year making my own fuel. (diesel is now $1.40/L or $5.30 gallon) it will $1.50? L in a week with Crude Going up over 5% on Friday my savings will even be Higher. Now I would not put it in a DMAX. The tolerances are so tight on them that I could see it hurting the pump and the injectors. If I had a DMAX I would sell it for a 6.5 and Run Home brew Bio. When Dieselpro said it was good for business what kind of Diesels is fixing?

My friend with bio plant has been running his 2001 dmax on it for 2 year and not any issues at all. Fear not, for it will work great!

Does your friend sell B100? Where can I get some? What do they sell it for?

He is based out of Winkler, MB, Canada. Might be a logistical nightmare, and with the rising commodity prices, b100 is no cheaper than bio, I am sorry to say. If you are still interested, PM me and I can give you his contact info. He also has it available out of ND I think.

The naysayers are correct. It will ruin your IP, your motor, your marriage and likely the health of your pets.

It is bad news, I wouldn't do it again. In fact, the use of biodiesel will likely lead to the eventual takeover of America by the Muslim fanatics, tax increases by communists and spotted owl overpopulation in the Northwest.

I have decided to go back to 100% petroleum, so that I may fund all the good work of the large oil companies, and the sheiks in Saudi Arabia. They tell me that in the next 50 years, they may allow their women to vote, and I for one think that is great news.

Yeah Chevron!

There is a big difference between running SVO, and biodiesel. Especially properly reacted biodiesel. It is not all the same and a poor product will cause problems, but a good product is the best you will ever get. This is the last of my oppinions on this post. I deal in facts and what I have experienced first hand, just so you all knoiw. No oppinions!

Well, I did some research this weekend....what I found so far is that Bio-dsl is better for your ip and fuel system than the #2 low sulfur crap we buy now. I like red dsl but cannot run it on the road.
Bio has a better lubricity, will eat older style fuel lines tho
Bio is cheaper at pump in San Antonio, Texas $4.25/US gallon, and cheaper if I buy a reactor and make my own
Bio is eco friendlier than arab/politician dsl
This is what I have discovered so far, I will post more as I find more

Hey Veg_Out,you forgot about it making the chickens stop laying and the cows stop making milk too.And it also makes your 10 year old flunk English and he begins to question math also.Dont ever, ever, think about running Bio,just keep taking it at the pump and leave all that wonderful veggie oil to me.Thanks for not running Bio,I for one appreciate it greatly.:D

The naysayers are correct. It will ruin your IP, your motor, your marriage and likely the health of your pets.

It is bad news, I wouldn't do it again. In fact, the use of biodiesel will likely lead to the eventual takeover of America by the Muslim fanatics, tax increases by communists and spotted owl overpopulation in the Northwest.

I have decided to go back to 100% petroleum, so that I may fund all the good work of the large oil companies, and the sheiks in Saudi Arabia. They tell me that in the next 50 years, they may allow their women to vote, and I for one think that is great news.

Yeah Chevron!



:rolleyes:

Well....when #2 petro Diesel is $4.69+ and Biodiesel is $4.25 I really want to go with the bio. on petro I am gettin 16.8-17.6 US MPG @ 60 MPH running 2000+ rpm. I would also like to put a bigger turbo on it but am gunshy and cash shy also. :rolleyes:

Biodiesel should be fine. Have you guys read the sticky in the Maintenance and Fluid section on lubricity study? Biodiesel is different than Vegetable Oil (SVO or WVO). It is already processed and can be mixed with regular diesel. Nationfam finding is correct.

The ULSD is the one that will make the pump rebuilder happy. Because of lack of lubricity will make the IP hotter to run than before causes mechanical failure of the pump. Either fuel additive, 2 cycle or Biodiesel will improve the lubricity to minimize these failures.

Well I parked my truck because I was tried of droping a hundred plus dollars a week in fuel cost. I went out & bought a motorcycle that gets about 55mpg. Now I will only use my truck when needed. I have cut my monthly fuel cost in half with a new bike payment & fuel cost.

So, what's the difference between bio diesel and pouring a little corn oil in your tank for lubricity?

Biodiesel is processed. I reckon corn oil'd be considered SVO.

Hey Veg_Out,you forgot about it making the chickens stop laying and the cows stop making milk too.And it also makes your 10 year old flunk English and he begins to question math also.Dont ever, ever, think about running Bio,just keep taking it at the pump and leave all that wonderful veggie oil to me.Thanks for not running Bio,I for one appreciate it greatly.:D
It will also cause your grandma to get cancer, your dog to die, your truck to explode, your house to catch fire, the bank to repossess everything, your wife to leave you, your radio to quit working, your alarm clock to fail, and your tap water to become infested with Ebola virus. (yes, I am done)

Well, I heard last night, from a diesel fuel injection specialist, that bio will kill your IP. He said it rusts it, and then basically sandblasts the inside of the pump, so, I went on a wild google chase. I found the same exact symptoms, and the explination was that the fuel was not properly processed (big suprise). More specifically, they said to wash and dry the bio real good before putting it in a vehice, and it should never do any harm.

There;s the truth everyone, if done correctly, Bio can be your best friend, if done incorrectly, it can be your worst enemy.

:exactly::agreed: :duh:

It will also cause your grandma to get cancer, your dog to die, your truck to explode, your house to catch fire, the bank to repossess everything, your wife to leave you, your radio to quit working, your alarm clock to fail, and your tap water to become infested with Ebola virus. (yes, I am done)
you forgot that it will cause brush fires in CA, droughts, and will actually cause the oceans to rise, too...

I just starting using biodiesel (homebrew), truck was running great, now it stalls some time the check engine comes on, other times its ok. I have changed the fuel filter twice, the truck is a 96 6.5 has 99k on it, other than changing the filters, the only thing mechanical that has been done is, I installed a banks exhaust system on it and the dealer replaced the PMD at 80k. HELP.

You wash and dry your fuel?

Here in Minnesota we have 2% bio in all out pump diesel. I had to drop my fuel tank to fix the fuel lines that rusted out, and I could not believe how clean my tank was. I have never seen such a shiny clean fuel tank in all my years including new ones. Bio is better for you fuel system and the rumors that I will hurt you IP are from Home brews that were dirty or had water in them or form running it in cold weather and having it get thick. If you run #2 up hear in the winter and continually let it gel up and keep trying to run it that way you will kill the IP that way too. I have all the components for converting my truck to run on wvo and will be setting up the conversion very soon. I'd make my own bio but up here in the winter I would have to heat my fuel system to make it work any way.

I just starting using biodiesel (homebrew), truck was running great, now it stalls some time the check engine comes on, other times its ok. I have changed the fuel filter twice, the truck is a 96 6.5 has 99k on it, other than changing the filters, the only thing mechanical that has been done is, I installed a banks exhaust system on it and the dealer replaced the PMD at 80k. HELP.

Again as Rcpullerdude said "is it washed ?" If processed correctly, biodiesel is better all the way around. There are additives for antigelling now as well. You will lose 1 or 2 MPG but it is cheaper and really cleans the fuel system out and prolongs the life of your IP. I been reading again Paw!:duh::bendover:

don't forget your signature if you are new

Folks,

I am growing tired of hearing how biodiesel harms IP's

From reading the posts, there is not one shred of evidence to back this up. If Biodiesel were not good, it would not be made any longer. These stories, "I heard from a guy who knows a guy who's mother says biodiesel ruins the IP" is getting old. I think the forum is more useful if posts are based on fact.

Folks,

I am growing tired of hearing how biodiesel harms IP's

From reading the posts, there is not one shred of evidence to back this up. If Biodiesel were not good, it would not be made any longer. These stories, "I heard from a guy who knows a guy who's mother says biodiesel ruins the IP" is getting old. I think the forum is more useful if posts are based on fact.


Just thought I'd let you know, it is VERY well proven that bio that has not been properly processed is not fit for motor vehicle use, and will, in fact, not only harm, but ruin an IP. There is evidence all over on the web, including an IP rebuilder on this very site that can attest to it. When I first heard it, I didn't want to believe it either, so I went fact hunting. I found the same symptoms, rust, insides looked sandblasted, just totally destroyed IP, and in all cases, they were run on bio. I searched further, and found that bio that has not been fully processed will damage an IP.

<rant>
Also, I don't think someone who's been here 4 months and has 17 posts has any room to go around saying that a long time, knowledgable member who is, in fact a diesel fuel injection specialist, who does rebuild IP's for a living is full of crap and/or is lying.
</rant>

Not properly processed...

What kind of an argument is that?! I suppose that not-properly-processed diesel fuel also causes injector pump problems, too. Of course a non-optimal fuel will cause IP problems. But I don't think that the premise of the original post was what happens when skunky biodiesel is used. Most of us our assuming that the biodiesel we plan on using will be on the up and up.

Besides, if someone's dumb enough to put biodiesel in their rig that is not suitable for vehicle use, let them walk home. When it gets right down to it, biodiesel is the shiznit, and will hopefully become more mainstream as the years pass. It's cheaper (for now), and it's drastically reducing the amount of money we're giving away to the !#%@heads on the other side of the pond. Not too mention that I'm sure it also has some pollution control aspects to it, too. The only knock I can see on biodiesel is the occasional fuel filter issue, but even I can figure that one out!!!

Not properly processed...

What kind of an argument is that?! I suppose that not-properly-processed diesel fuel also causes injector pump problems, too. Of course a non-optimal fuel will cause IP problems. But I don't think that the premise of the original post was what happens when skunky biodiesel is used. Most of us our assuming that the biodiesel we plan on using will be on the up and up.

Besides, if someone's dumb enough to put biodiesel in their rig that is not suitable for vehicle use, let them walk home. When it gets right down to it, biodiesel is the shiznit, and will hopefully become more mainstream as the years pass. It's cheaper (for now), and it's drastically reducing the amount of money we're giving away to the !#%@heads on the other side of the pond. Not too mention that I'm sure it also has some pollution control aspects to it, too. The only knock I can see on biodiesel is the occasional fuel filter issue, but even I can figure that one out!!!


so your telling me that DieselPro and accurate diesel are both wrong? and who are you to say he's wrong? they both know what they are talking about as they rebuild Injection pumps. its not a case of my mothers sisters 2 nd cousin had an issue with biodiesel. also if biodiesel is so much cheaper how come if you buy it at the pump its more than regular pump diesel? cheaper indeed. biodiesel will end up just like off road diesel, illegal to use on the roads. the same fate will happen to WVO over time as well.

why is this thread still going? all thats become of it is a giant argument. i'm siding with the pros who do their jobs day in and day out that say biodiesel is good for their business. for some reason i don't think they'd lie about that either. if an IP rebuilder is saying "biodiesel is great for business" that'd be somewhat of a warning to me saying if a batch gets made wrong heres what can happen. almost like saying i told you so when your IP dies.

I've been following this thread and now am confused...
Are y'all talking about the bio-diesel that I can get down at the filling station, or home brew stuff being bad for the IP?

if the home brew stuff is not throughly washed and dried it can and will kill the IP. what happens is the IP looks like its all rusted inside and cannot produce the required fuel pressure to run the engine. Dieselpro just had a cummins IP come in that had bio diesel in it and he said it couldn't produce 1/2 the pressure it should. i don't know about the stuff you can buy at the pump. all i know is if you buy bio form the pump its more expensive that regular pump diesel. why pay more and get less MPGs? pointless. bio diesel and WFVO will end up like red offroad diesel. eventually it'll become illegal, if it already hasn't, to run bio diesel and WVO as theres no road tax on it.

as far as all of you "newer" people crying that the IP rebuilders are incorrect, who are you to say they are wrong when they do this day in and day out? until you can show me a shred of evidence that IP rebuilders are lying about bio diesel and WVO ruining IPs don't cry BS or claim its a "mother's cousins ex-wifes" story. :rolleyes: But don't believe the professionals, just no crying when you break it.

I've been following this thread and now am confused...
Are y'all talking about the bio-diesel that I can get down at the filling station, or home brew stuff being bad for the IP?
HamOP, it looks to me like the thread started out with someone asking about biodiesel from a reg pump, but has diverged away from that.... now it looks like someone is ranting about how biodiesel is the root of all evil, even though I am willing to bet, he has never seen it.

HamOP, it looks to me like the thread started out with someone asking about biodiesel from a reg pump, but has diverged away from that.... now it looks like someone is ranting about how biodiesel is the root of all evil, even though I am willing to bet, he has never seen it.


not sure who this is meant for. biodiesel when made correctly can be your best friend but if the smallest thing goes wrong it can also be your worst enemy. would i use correctly made bio? Yes i would but if i had a shred of doubt that something went wrong in a batch it would get tossed and i'd start over. as with experimental fuels the benefits can outweigh the risks or it can be the other way around too.

Yeah people in mid michigan,, don't use bio,,, You'll never get it right,,, just leave the oil for me to pick up, I'll do it right,,, and have no issues. Glad I don't live in Connecticut!

I'm still a firm believer that a Pump and a set of injectors will cost less than $4000 and one a year and I ma still $4000 on the good side of my Wallet. I could put a new Motor in every year and still be up on the $8000 a year I am saving money. Wait till Diesel crosses the $6.50 a gallon mark (that's only another 30 cents a litter from what I would be paying.) My Wife's Car is a 98 TDI jetta and it cost less that 1 cent a Mile to drive on Bio. It was running on Home made Bio Before I bought it and has over 100 000 KM out of the 225000 KM on it Running Bio and has not had any Engine work.

Ok if you have not ever Made biodiesel, before,, then keep your insight to a minimum please. This thread is to help people, not to rag on an inssue that you haven't any personal experience with. Thanx!

ive been thinking of making it for some time now,but im thinking if oil,gas,diesel keeps going up do you guys that are making it think you will still be able to get your veg oil free/resonable priced or do you think other companies or even government will start getting the oil from these restraunts and stop the home brew,also id like to know what kind of shelf life it has,can you make alot and barrel it up or would you have to mix/blend it after it set awhile,and you guys in the colder climate states what do you run in the winter as anti gel,thanks

One point made earlier in this thread dealt with the rumored loss in fuel efficiency in Biodiesel versus PetroDiesel. There are some who argue that Bio's increased cetane rating over PetroD offsets the fuels inherently lower BTU content. These claims seem to be supported at least in part by a 2006 study conducted by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory - US Department of Energy. The entire PDF article can be found here: http://preview.tinyurl.com/55bdlt

but briefly, the study found no statistically significant difference in the fuel economy of two groups of busses run on PetroD (n=4, avg = 4.41 mpg) and busses run on BioD (n=5, avg = 4.41 mpg). Both groups of busses were driven approximately 100,000 miles over the same time frame. The study goes on to say later that the authors "found no impact of biodiesel on fuel economy or on the cost to maintain fuel pumps and fuel injectors."

Shelf life if kept air tight and in the dark, 6 or 7 months or so. testing you own brew in a mason jar in the refridge,, till it starts to cloud up,, thats the point of cooler temps that you would want to start mixing it with Petro Diesel. You could wrap the tank and use 12V heater blankets on the fuel tank and run it colder if you were daring,,, Not for me though.
Optimal performance tests on one of the fastest diesel trucks shows that 20%Bio to PetroDiesel gives the best lube and performace times on the dragstrip. I don't really care if I lose a MPG or 2,, it runs better, smoother,, Cleaner!!! I brew my own, wash and dry it, and pass the 27/3 test. It runs great in my 94 6.5 and also works great to degrease engines,, lawn tractors,, and kill some weeds too! LOL I'm in a small town, and eat at the few places I collect from, they all thinks it's cool what I'm doing. So I'm hoping I won't be havin issues with any of them. My mom found me a source from another small town mom&pop near her, that will get me about 7-8 gallons a week. Turns out the owner is a friend of hers.

pruittx2,thanks for the info,what set up do you have,home made or bought ? as far as anti gel i was wondering about an additive,i seen somewhere on the web,i will see if i can find it again,that there is a new additive people are using with the home brew for anti gel,i dont really want to mess with the wraping of tank or running heater hose lines etc,thanks

by the way my truck is a 93 chevy 2500

I feel somewhat responsible for this from my post. All I did was reiterate what two re builders,both reputable and site members, told me when I inquired about it. I have not used it and will not say one way or another. I chose not to use it based on information I got from DP and Accurate. Being a Registered Retailer of Diesel Motor Fuel in both NY and CT I would like to remind everyone that any home brewed fuel is illegal and an act of tax evasion and you can get in more trouble for that than killing someone. Not saying I agree with it but when this whole Bio diesel thing came around 3 years ago I went blind on paperwork from NYS on the subject so I am passing it along. think about making moonshine and running it in your gasser and Uncle Sams position on that. No difference. Just want to make that clear so no one has any misconceptions about it. This is an area I am qualified to comment on. This pointless bickering is not helpful at all. BTW if running Bio diesel will make my wife leave then sign me up. :)

As for the legality of it. I was watching Xtreme 4x4 this weekend, and they said, now, I didn't write this down, so I am going by memory, but the episode was on brewing and running Biodiesel. They said that it was legal, approved by the EPA, and the DOT, and some other organizations, and you also would get a 50 cent tax break on every gallon that you used, but also that you had to declare every gallon that you used and pay road tax on it. So, I think that part would cancel itself out almost, but they said it was legal. Don't go on my word though, look into it for yourself. Also, I read something somewhere before that said as long as you blend it you are ok, because it technically isn't fuel, it is an additive, and you don't have to pay road tax on that stuff. Of course, I don't know at what percentage that this would apply to, though.

As for the legality of it. I was watching Xtreme 4x4 this weekend, and they said, now, I didn't write this down, so I am going by memory, but the episode was on brewing and running Biodiesel. They said that it was legal, approved by the EPA, and the DOT, and some other organizations, and you also would get a 50 cent tax break on every gallon that you used, but also that you had to declare every gallon that you used and pay road tax on it. So, I think that part would cancel itself out almost, but they said it was legal. Don't go on my word though, look into it for yourself. Also, I read something somewhere before that said as long as you blend it you are ok, because it technically isn't fuel, it is an additive, and you don't have to pay road tax on that stuff. Of course, I don't know at what percentage that this would apply to, though.
You are incorrect. It is taxable both federal and state. How bout this. Anyone who thinks I'm wrong, make some, put it in your vehichle then call your local state tax dept and the IRS and tell them what you did. That should give you an answer very quickly.Only two things certain in life. You will die and you will pay taxes.

http://www.tax.state.ny.us/pdf/memos/petroleum/m06_2m.pdf
This is for NYS. I don't have time to look up CT or the Fed but it can be found online.

You might note that any fuel must be approved and test by EPA and American Society of Engineers. It is in the TSM.

As for the legality of it. I was watching Xtreme 4x4 this weekend, and they said, now, I didn't write this down, so I am going by memory, but the episode was on brewing and running Biodiesel. They said that it was legal, approved by the EPA, and the DOT, and some other organizations, and you also would get a 50 cent tax break on every gallon that you used, but also that you had to declare every gallon that you used and pay road tax on it. So, I think that part would cancel itself out almost, but they said it was legal. Don't go on my word though, look into it for yourself. Also, I read something somewhere before that said as long as you blend it you are ok, because it technically isn't fuel, it is an additive, and you don't have to pay road tax on that stuff. Of course, I don't know at what percentage that this would apply to, though.

Several states have pasted tax exemption laws for personal use of vegetable oil based fuels on the public roads. I have not paid attention to which states because MN was not one of them yet but I am sure you can find out if you do some searching on bio/wvo sites. I for one don't understand why some people get so upset about this topic. My motto is Live and Let Live to each his own.
When I was an engine machinist I would tell you that teenage boy were good for business but that didn't mean that all teenage boys would blow up the engine in the family car just some of them.

You are incorrect. It is taxable both federal and state. How bout this. Anyone who thinks I'm wrong, make some, put it in your vehichle then call your local state tax dept and the IRS and tell them what you did. That should give you an answer very quickly.Only two things certain in life. You will die and you will pay taxes.

I think not.
First, I said that I was going from memory, so that should be taken to mean that I wasn't 100% on sure on what was said.
But, you say that I am incorrect, then you posted a link that supports what I said.
Your link shows that there ARE excise tax exemptions for producing bio fuels.

I think not.
First, I said that I was going from memory, so that should be taken to mean that I wasn't 100% on sure on what was said.
But, you say that I am incorrect, then you posted a link that supports what I said.
Your link shows that there ARE excise tax exemptions for producing bio fuels.
Yes exemption 20% which means you still pay 80%. Like I said go do it and then call the tax dept. See how much they love to lose tax money because they feel sorry for us about high diesel prices. Not to mention you have to be a registered refinery to produce motor fuel. I guy in our state made the local news when the feds came in and sent him a cease and decist order after someone turned him in.

Yes exemption 20% which means you still pay 80%. Like I said go do it and then call the tax dept. See how much they love to lose tax money because they feel sorry for us about high diesel prices. Not to mention you have to be a registered refinery to produce motor fuel. I guy in our state made the local news when the feds came in and sent him a cease and decist order after someone turned him in.
See?
I wasn't incorrect.

It may not be the most advisable thing to do, but it is legal.
On the other hand, how many people are going to call up and tell that they are making it? Just like how many people are going to tell the EPA that they have taken their cat off of their exhaust, or that they have disabled the EGR system on their vehicle? According to what I have seen and read, using biodiesel is more legal than those things.

96, I'm not saying don't do it. Just want people to understand the legal implications. It's just like File sharing and Music downloading. It's rare to get caught, everyone does it, but if know if you do get caught you'll be in a heap of trouble. When it comes to tax people you are guilty until proven innocent. 20 yrs selling diesel and heating oil has taught me that. Likely hood of getting caught ? Low. But Some a'hole you told who get's a bug up his a$$ one day and then makes a phone call...get my point with all this ? The guy on the news was like 70 yrs old and the feds were threatening to throw him in jail. Just want people to know what "could" happen. Plenty of people out there are probably runnin Old Red too but the poor bastard who gets caught...well too much risk IMO.

I sent an email to my supplier(one of the "Big Oil" cos) about this. They have a tax specialist that knows more about tax laws than the gov does so hopefully I can get an honest answer and put this to rest. More to come. I'm kinda curiuos myself. Believe me I looked at the plans for the appleseed reactor a few times. I wouldn't run it in my 6.5 simply because of the DS4 cost but i would run it in an old Mercedes. Those old Bosch pumps are like gorillas. They would burn s^it.

I remember reading on one of the alternative fuels forums that someone said you don't have to pay road tax on diesel fuel additives. I'm not sure if there are any percentages listed for the amount of additive that you can use. 90%, 70%, 50% or ??%

There I go too, quoting something that I thought someone said. Just like the ones that say Bio or WVO will ruin your IP and engine.

Anyhow for what it's worth????

Jody

There I go too, quoting something that I thought someone said.


Shame on you!
But, that is what I heard too. So if both of us heard it, then it must be true.

As for the legality of it. I was watching Xtreme 4x4 this weekend, and they said, now, I didn't write this down, so I am going by memory, but the episode was on brewing and running Biodiesel. They said that it was legal, approved by the EPA, and the DOT, and some other organizations, and you also would get a 50 cent tax break on every gallon that you used, but also that you had to declare every gallon that you used and pay road tax on it. So, I think that part would cancel itself out almost, but they said it was legal. Don't go on my word though, look into it for yourself. Also, I read something somewhere before that said as long as you blend it you are ok, because it technically isn't fuel, it is an additive, and you don't have to pay road tax on that stuff. Of course, I don't know at what percentage that this would apply to, though.

There is a $0.50 federal tax credit (or rebate, I'm not sure) for fuel distributors who re-formulate biodiesel. That's why you see so much B99 being sold - it has been blended with 1% No. 2 so the distributor can take that credit. I suspect that's where the "blending" part of your post comes from - the distributors have to blend it to get their $0.50 credit. Additives have nothing to do with anything. The credit may be passed on to users in the form of lower per-gallon prices, but it doesn't have to be. In any event, end-users (i.e. you and me) do not get to deduct the $0.50 per gallon again from their taxes.

As for state fuel taxes on biodiesel- it varies from state to state. In NC there is a personal exemption of X gallons of homemade biofuels fuel per person per year, passed just last year by the state legislature.

This is a reply from a CT retailler of bio fuel. Note the higlighted part.

pricy

Thank you for your interest in HALE HILL BIOFUELS. We currently deliver premium, additized, filtered B20 On/Off Road biodiesel blends throughout the state. The current delivered price is $4.24/ $4.48 for off and on road with all taxes included.

The biodiesel component is a domestic renewable fuel refined form virgin soybean oil grown on American farms. Biodiesel is a cleaner burning fuel which produces less soot buildup over time, maintaining the efficiency of a burner. Petroleum diesel produces more soot, decreasing efficiency at a faster rate. For diesel applications, the greater lubricity improves engine performance and reduces emissions.


This renewable energy blend reduces sulfur & CO2 emissions, unburned hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide & particulates, and decreases exhaust odor. A recent study indicated that an increase of 10% biodiesel use nationally would eliminate our need to import oil from both Saudi Arabia and Iraq in addition to creating new domestic jobs.

Thank you for your interest in our commitment to a healthier environment, supporting American farmers as well as the domestic economy, and reducing our dependence on foreign oil.

Please contact us toll free @ 888-425-3445 if you have any questions or would like to arrange a delivery.

Regards,

Donna Worst
Hale Hill BioFuels

In Canada Bio Diesel Is Tax Free For Now.

In Canada Bio Diesel Is Tax Free For Now.

That's 'cause they don't yet know the French word for it... as soon as they figure out THAT little technicality, look out...

Lets keep this thrread on track, the original post was about retailer bought bio!

I ran retail bought bio B20 in my 99 6.5TD for two and a half years with never a problem, not even a gelling issue like some have rumored about, even down to -25 F when I mistakenly filled just before temp dropped rapidly one night. I did go through a few filters a little more rapidly than I liked, but after two I was better than on normal track.

Retail bio is now blended to a new standard for the most part that has been adopted by 90% of the companies that blend bio if not more than that percentage. I still run bio in my now new to me Dmax, and it is more quiet than my dads 94 Toyota P/U (gasser ofcourse).

Tony

I agree with Horsehauling - let's bring this thread back on track.

I have been purchasing B99, and 'tank mixing' with petro-diesel for about 3 years now. I did need to change fuel filters more often (about every 3-5K miles), but after a few blackened filters, the vehicle runs smoothly and more quietly than before. I have not had any other issues. Fuel economy does suffer by about 10%, that is true, but that is due to less BTUs in biodiesel compared to Petrodiesel. One big side effect that I don't think anyone has mentioned.

When running biodiesel, there is NO SOOT in the oil. In other words, the oil stays the original color. Given the damage that soot can cause, isn't this a significant effect?

All in all, I think that the engine should run smoother, last longer with running biodiesel.

Thanks,

Rob :)

This is a reply from a CT retailler of bio fuel. Note the higlighted part.

pricy

Thank you for your interest in HALE HILL BIOFUELS. We currently deliver premium, additized, filtered B20 On/Off Road biodiesel blends throughout the state. The current delivered price is $4.24/ $4.48 for off and on road with all taxes included.

The biodiesel component is a domestic renewable fuel refined form virgin soybean oil grown on American farms. Biodiesel is a cleaner burning fuel which produces less soot buildup over time, maintaining the efficiency of a burner. Petroleum diesel produces more soot, decreasing efficiency at a faster rate. For diesel applications, the greater lubricity improves engine performance and reduces emissions.


This renewable energy blend reduces sulfur & CO2 emissions, unburned hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide & particulates, and decreases exhaust odor. A recent study indicated that an increase of 10% biodiesel use nationally would eliminate our need to import oil from both Saudi Arabia and Iraq in addition to creating new domestic jobs.

Thank you for your interest in our commitment to a healthier environment, supporting American farmers as well as the domestic economy, and reducing our dependence on foreign oil.

Please contact us toll free @ 888-425-3445 if you have any questions or would like to arrange a delivery.

Regards,

Donna Worst
Hale Hill BioFuels


There is not Fed Tax on any Bio fuel IE: Bio DSL Ethanol! They should not tax unless there is No. 2 petro in it.

Further... Bio Diesel if properly manufactured at the refinery or with a reactor kit purchased by u or me will NOT harm an IP. I have researched this, spoken to many diesel mechanics as well as an engineer. It has a higher lubricity than No. 2 petro. You will have to change filters frequently due to Bio also acting detergent like. It cleans the crap the arabs leave in Dino shit. All I did was ask a question, I did not intend to start an rant by some guys who want us to keep running Dino so they can sell me an IP. If you use No. 2 petro then put some 2cycle oil or an approved dsl lube additive. As far as pricing, in San Antonio Bio dsl is $4.25 vs Petro $4.60+. I know the pump techs want business, I have even asked the guys that put a rebuilt engine in my 1965 977H Cat track loader. Bio is safe to run in it as well...........:eek:

I have read all this thread and I have fact to contribute.

If you use Bio Diesel all of your babies will be born naked.

This is the gospel.:D


Regards, Jeff

lol

The naysayers are correct. It will ruin your IP, your motor, your marriage and likely the health of your pets.

It is bad news, I wouldn't do it again. In fact, the use of biodiesel will likely lead to the eventual takeover of America by the Muslim fanatics, tax increases by communists and spotted owl overpopulation in the Northwest.

I have decided to go back to 100% petroleum, so that I may fund all the good work of the large oil companies, and the sheiks in Saudi Arabia. They tell me that in the next 50 years, they may allow their women to vote, and I for one think that is great news.

Yeah Chevron!
:muahaha:
Yes! What he said. Plus there are millions of people now standing at the back doors of all the businesses paying for their old grease. :Wedgie: It's just not worth the money folks! :rolleyes:

I have really enjoyed this topic, although certain people, whom shall remain nameless, lack a grasp on the English language. Regardless, I've never made my own biodiesel, as I don't have the time, money, or patience to do so. But I will say that I hope to see more and higher blends of biodiesel available at my local fuel pumps. Biodiesel from the pumps, which seems to be well received by everybody here (even the IP rebuilders), is the way to go. If high-blend biodiesel becomes more mainstream in my area, I will be purchasing it in great quantities. However, I will not be buying it from some guy's garage, nor will I be sleeping with the McDonalds's manager for her used oil so I can make my own!

As for the homemade biodiesel argument earlier, I don't disagree with you guys at all, although some of you sure got on the defensive in an awful hurry. Perhaps too many experts around here, which can be a blessing and a curse (it sure is nice when my truck ain't running good!). But then again, if I could buy gasoline for my bike from a guy's garage, I'd also be less inclined to do that to. I'm assuming that if it comes from the pumps, it's all good. Put the bio- prefix in front of it, and I like it even more!!!

2 days ago I put 10 gallons of BIO in my truck ($4.25/US gallon) to make a blend, my truck started to run much better. I did not have to pour water over the dam IP to get it to start after shutting down from long drive.

Yesterday I, Friday afternoon, I put 23 gallons of BIO (NOW $4.15/US Gallon). Truck just keeps getting better each day. It runs more like it did 10 years ago, the weird idle has cleared up. No longer do I have to pour water on a warm IP to get it to start.

I do not know what Obama's cousins are putting in the dino junk but I do not want any more of it!

The manufacturer of this Bio is Alamo Biodiesel, so far it is a pilot program. He is making some clean fuel and I will praise it for the positve change in performance of my truck.

Cool...!
If you can keep this trend going for a couple more weeks you should be able to blow off Vipers with $0.23 bio.:D

Cool...!
If you can keep this trend going for a couple more weeks you should be able to blow off Vipers with $0.23 bio.:D


Not what I was trying to say, jeez it is like I am talking to my wife sometimes. Anyways, all I am trying to say is from my experience so far the bio has aided my engine in returning to it's intended performance. I do not see knockin off vipers unless I am Gayle Banks...........

LOL at wife.:lol: mine wants to know if i can feed her diesel. that way i could spend more time with her. :HiHi: I guess bio wouldn't hurt.:rolleyes:

Sorry - I thought the :D would indicate just kidding around - It's Saturday & raining.
Do the math!! It would actually take a few months, not weeks. Sorta like RicerMath. :D:D:D

I'm assuming that if it comes from the pumps, it's all good.


:eek:

Fuel from a pump does NOT always indicate quality. I had run some bio in my truck two years ago and had a few problems then. Upon further investigation I found that this company did not dry there fuel at the end of the process. It also did not pass the 3/27 test. Most homebrewers if doing a good job processing and checking there fuel afterwards with a few simple tests can make better biodiesel than what you will get at the pump. The money savings is great but there is a lot of time/money and patience to get started. It takes a real commitment anda lot of research to get it right. Hardest part is finding good oil sources and collecting.

FYI...no federal excise tax for less than 400 gallons/quarter for non-commercial use. My state (AZ) is .26 per gallon reported either quarterly or yearly. Keep track of mileage and it is pretty easy. They are not looking to make a killing on the taxes here. I could easily not report and no one would ever know but I do because it is easy. The blending tax credit is something totally different and only applies to anyone using fuel outside of personal use and or for sale.

i make 250 to 350 gal a week for my use i run 100% in my 2 mercedes and my 94 chevy pickup and you dont have to replaced a thing on 93 or newer trucks. the reason that rebuilders are making money off people that run bio is they are back yard makers with all the crap left in the fuel. bio diesel is far better than dino burns cleaner. less particles in the air than dino. higher cetane cost less about a 1.00$ than dino crap. if it meets astm standards 6751 then you can be assured it will not hurt your engine. rubber fuel line if very old could be a problem. carry filters until you alge is eaten out of you crudey tank by bio. it works and works great. been running it for 5 yrs and mixit with #1 kero in the winter. extreme cold 70/20/10 bio/kero/gas. plus a injector cleaner. have a good day

Can I get an Amen brothers, and sisters!

I was originally looking through posts. Looking for one that would tell me reasons, or pros & cons, to use bio (homebrewed) VS. WVO.

I have a 1984 Suburban with a 6.2 & a Banks Stinger kit. I live on the IL/WI border so the temperature varies from below 0 to over 100 in most years. I drive @ 40K miles a year, and consider my truck as having paid for itself already. If I could save 5000 a year on fuel for 1-2 years, it wouldn't matter financially if the truck was ruined at the end. Still I'd like to know what I'm in for.
If anybody knows or could suggest a different post to find this type of information

Several folks have mentioned this in passing and I think it deserves more attention: biodiesel is reported to have a cleaning effect on your entire fuel system. I suspect it may not be a good idea for all the junk it cleans to pass through your injector pump. Before you start running it, seems like it would be a good idea to install a FASS or other air/water separator and filter.

Several folks have mentioned this in passing and I think it deserves more attention: biodiesel is reported to have a cleaning effect on your entire fuel system. I suspect it may not be a good idea for all the junk it cleans to pass through your injector pump. Before you start running it, seems like it would be a good idea to install a FASS or other air/water separator and filter.



...just keep some extra fuel filters on hand and that will help out tremendously.

There's an article on biodiesel in the September Diesel Power Magazine; it claims that pitting and corrosion of metal components in the fuel system is caused by 'free methanol' in the fuel - not the biodiesel itself, but a byproduct of how it is made. If any water is left in the biodiesel, it reacts to form methanol.

There's an article on biodiesel in the September Diesel Power Magazine; it claims that pitting and corrosion of metal components in the fuel system is caused by 'free methanol' in the fuel - not the biodiesel itself, but a byproduct of how it is made. If any water is left in the biodiesel, it reacts to form methanol.

Sorry, Diesel Power got it wrong, IMO. There's not such thing as "free methanol" in biodiesel. Methanol's used in the process, but it alters waste oil at a molecular level, changing it into biodiesel. That's why what's called "biodiesel" has a technical term of "methyl esters". Any leftover methanol is captured in the glycerin byproduct that's disposed of, or washed out of the remaining biodiesel in the washing process, which occurs long before it's put into the fuel tank. Properly washed and dried biodiesel will have a methanol content of 0. I'm betting that the "pitting and corroding" they're talking about came from improperly dried bio that still had water in it. Water and biodiesel don't combine to produce methanol.

Sorry, Diesel Power got it wrong, IMO. There's not such thing as "free methanol" in biodiesel. Methanol's used in the process, but it alters waste oil at a molecular level, changing it into biodiesel. That's why what's called "biodiesel" has a technical term of "methyl esters". Any leftover methanol is captured in the glycerin byproduct that's disposed of, or washed out of the remaining biodiesel in the washing process, which occurs long before it's put into the fuel tank. Properly washed and dried biodiesel will have a methanol content of 0. I'm betting that the "pitting and corroding" they're talking about came from improperly dried bio that still had water in it. Water and biodiesel don't combine to produce methanol.


x2...water will do this but methanol doesn;t just pop up again in the bio.

Sorry, Diesel Power got it wrong, IMO. There's not such thing as "free methanol" in biodiesel. Methanol's used in the process, but it alters waste oil at a molecular level, changing it into biodiesel. That's why what's called "biodiesel" has a technical term of "methyl esters". Any leftover methanol is captured in the glycerin byproduct that's disposed of, or washed out of the remaining biodiesel in the washing process, which occurs long before it's put into the fuel tank. Properly washed and dried biodiesel will have a methanol content of 0. I'm betting that the "pitting and corroding" they're talking about came from improperly dried bio that still had water in it. Water and biodiesel don't combine to produce methanol.
x3... Sounds like the author wasn't well versed in the chemical process at the molecular level.

x3... Sounds like the author wasn't well versed in the chemical process at the molecular level.

It's not that complicated, really. 5 minutes on Google's all it takes.

Graydon and UtahBiodidesl,, has more good real info on his Video Tutorials,, then anywhere else on the net!

Only way "free methanol" will get into bio is if someone is using resin washing/drying and it is not working efficiently. Water washing removes it.

I know my truck loves the bio! I have the crappy ip with defective head in it. On petro it idles down like it is gonna die, have to pur water on pump to restart when warm.....Well had to run dyno dung for a week, yesterday while filling up with bio the idle went back up to 500 rpm and truck just runs BETTER on it. Like itself again.....I cannot explain how much more I like it than dyno dung