Hi all,

any of you bought and install Herzog injectors?
I'm looking for marine ones on fleabay. They look interesting, as being supposed to do as well as Bosch ones, but I don't know so much about Herzog.

Any experience to share about?

mmm. Ok, I think I get the answer ;)

I just bought a set of nozzles from an e-bay seller. They have the part # DNOSD311, which is supposed to be the marine nozzle made for Bosch(or so I've read). These are not sold as Bosch nozzles. They are supposed to be sold by some Italian company(might be similiar to the German- Herzog).

I am relatively sure that these nozzles are made in China. I say relatively because I have not substantiated that beyond doubt yet and I don't like passing around bad information.

There is a plant in China that claims on their website that they make diesel parts for Bosch, Delphi, Lucas, etc. -All the "known" major players. Do they, or not. Is it possible these days, that folks are buying the name brands and getting the same stuff sold under "no-name" brands because its all made in a chinese factory. Just because a company made something in the U.S. or India or wherever last year or even last month doesn't mean that they haven't switched to China recently and I doubt they are going to advertise that.

I read a lot of claims on this site and others about what's good, bad or otherwise, without many, or any facts to back it up. That frustrates me. I want substantiated information, that I can verify.

If I can find out more about the origin of these nozzles, I will share it, but I am holding off till I can get hard facts. I'm going to test them, install them on my truck('93 3500) and see what happens. Then I'll share the real results, not just my knee jerk reaction.

I appreciate this site and have learned a lot, but there a lot of opinions to wade through.

The old ones say "France".

So, either someone is selling forgeries, or Bosch has a plant in India.

Do the nozzles in Bosch branded injectors say where they are made? Or Delphi?

if they say bosch on them they are good. if the don't have anything on them then they are cheap chinese junk. the cheap injectors or injector parts will cause more damage than if you just spent the extra money to go with bosch injectors in the first place. ask jbsaxman what cheap injectors did for him. i feel bad for him because i'm sure he was just trying to save a bit of money but look what happened. he got a burnt piston and i can't remember what else from those cheap injectors. hope you get that all fixed and get the truck running again.

Does Bosch label their nozzles with their name or just a number?

ask dieselpro to be sure but i believe it says bosch right on them.

I bought some injectors from DieselPro.

Here is what it says on it:

Bosch (060) Germany 071 -3 0430211054 737

My diesel air compressor has Herzog injectors, I think.....

In an attempt to find some answers about how to identify real brand name(in this case, Bosch) nozzles or injectors, I made some calls earler today.

In one case I talked with a diesel shop that carried Bosch injectors and nozzles. He looked at the nozzles in particular, and said that they had a part number and said "Made in India". They didn't say "bosch" on the part.

I called Bosch, U.S. and asked them how I might Identify their parts and in particular, where did they currently make their injectors and nozzles. The fellow that I spoke with claimed that the components themselves may not be identifiable as to their origin. One would have to trust the retailer and the packaging to indicate that the items were genuine Bosch products. Also for those who wish to avoid Chinese products, He claimed that their products are made all over the world, including a growing number made in China.

In light of this, it seems evident that it may be impossible to know if the no-name is indeed inferior to the name brand, they both may be made at the same plant. As I stated in an earlier post, there is a large Chinese plant that claims to make parts for many of the major players in the diesel market.

Also, as far as negative experiences with "chinese" stuff, I have also read on this forum as well as others, that folks have had problems with Bosch and Delphi injectors, but instead of writing them off as junk, they replace the defective parts maybe under warranty and probably with the same brand and marched on.

It makes one wonder what is really "good" these days and if the quality of just about everything has gone downhill as manufacturers search for that ever elusive cheaper labor.

The fellow at Bosch did acknowledge that some of their products are made in China, so it would appear that to say that China made stuff is inferior now also includes some items made by major brands.

Since some of this stuff may now be made only a few chinese blocks from one another, the question is who is maintaining the quality.

Things can be made in china as long as the company doing the outsourcing are maintaining the quality spec. If Bosch are willing to put their stamp on it, hopefully that means they are maintaining the quality spec and inspection.

"Hopefully" being the key word, although as I have called around to different shops, it has been interesting(and puzzling), that a lot of shops are satisfied with the Bosch quality, but some are not, and I guess have figured why pay Bosch price and get questionable(in their estimation) quality. Then they have started looking for other sources. This seems to be where Herzog nozzles and injectors enters the picture.

Just a note, apparently alot of folks that work on mercedes diesels have abandoned Bosch for other lesser known, but arguably better quality injector manufacturers.

Here's a link for you to check out diesel pro there is no pn but it sure looks like 6.5 nozzles and says their made by Herzog
http://pensacoladiesel.com/index.php?target=products&product_id=30105

Since were on the topic of injectors can someone tell me the specs on these marine injectors and why they claim to make 40 more hp? And has anyone installed them and what do you think? It sounds like you are the pump guy dieselpro. Have you ever rebuilt them and what is the difference between the marine and regular? Thanks for the info!

Since were on the topic of injectors can someone tell me the specs on these marine injectors and why they claim to make 40 more hp? And has anyone installed them and what do you think? It sounds like you are the pump guy dieselpro. Have you ever rebuilt them and what is the difference between the marine and regular? Thanks for the info!weik , i have to side with dieselpro on the injectors, may as well stick with bosch or delphi and stanadine, they are proven and the nozzles are only $25 or so
marine injectors pop press is 2200 psi .aparently they flow more fuel so you need more air and less compression [18 to 1 pistons] to make it work.
on my wife,s [see sig] 95 i rebuilt the injectors using standard bosch nozzles and set them at 2200 psi. the engine has def more snap to it due to in my view better atominazation of the fuel. i did not change IP timing either.this was about 20 k ago. On a worn high mile IP it may cause trouble though.

I can't beleive injectors can make 40 hp either! It doesn't seems possible since fuel is what makes hp and the ip is what controls the amount of fuel. injectors only atomize the fuel so it burns. i dunno? I rebuilt injectors in a 95 6.5 and set the pressures at 2350 psi (craking) it sure ran and started nice but i don't think it made 40 hp!

thanks for the info bison i'm sure you guys are right i just thought i'd put up the link to show what is out there remember BUYER BEWARE!!!!

LOL... this one keeps coming up again and again...

What I'm waiting for is for somebody to get marine injectors and a HO chip (don't care which vendor), and do 4 dyno or speed runs:

- bone stock
- with new chip, stock injectors
- with old chip back in, marine injectors
- with new chip and marine injectors.

Bill Heath posted some numbers on his new chip using both stock and hi-pop injectors, but people seem to be discounting those as vendor hype. Bill is pretty honest about stuff like that, so I'd love to see some opposing data.

Over and over, we hear that the marine injectors make little or no difference (over stock injectors) with stock programming, but add substantial gains (over stock injectors) with performance programming.

But a few people I respect keep telling me that marine injectors make no difference, period.

I have no data, and therefore, no opinion. But I sure have questions.

I hope somebody reading this is just about to install a new chip and do new marine injectors, and takes the time to do some simple tests for us all! (hint, hint)

"made by" may be a relative term these days. From what I've read, Herzog-AG "makes" injectors for the plastics industry. Now I'll start guessing a little. Herzog subcontracts to a Chinese producer for its injectors,(according to its web site Herzog also has a Chinese address) the same plant produces diesel injectors. Herzog decides to put their german name on the injectors and make some money selling. At least a few shops feel they are as good as the Bosches from India and don't cost as much.

If some one has any first hand experience with these Herzog components, I'm sure people would like to hear it. Others may differ, but I am looking for feedback on this Herzog stuff in particular, not your opinion of all Chinese produced stuff.

If one were to make decisions based on poor experiences that are posted on this forum, I have read about people having problems with at least Bosch and Delphi, so what would you be left with?

Installed a set of these Herzog marine injectors to see what they are like since the price is so economical. the injectors looked good, no part number or country of origin on them, the truck seems to start and run ok on them no 40 horse gain by any means but it needed injectors anyway, just going to run it awhile and see what happens.

Installed a set of these Herzog marine injectors to see what they are like since the price is so economical. the injectors looked good, no part number or country of origin on them, the truck seems to start and run ok on them no 40 horse gain by any means but it needed injectors anyway, just going to run it awhile and see what happens.

Everybody, even the ones who say you DO get an HP increase with the marine injectors, agrees that with stock programming, there will be almost no difference. Since you don't have a chip in yours, Blue, you shouldn't see anything much in the HP department, even if they DO work as advertised. I have heard that the truck will run smoother, although any new injector should run smoother than an old 150,000 mile injector.

"made by" may be a relative term these days. From what I've read, Herzog-AG "makes" injectors for the plastics industry. Now I'll start guessing a little. Herzog subcontracts to a Chinese producer for its injectors,(according to its web site Herzog also has a Chinese address) the same plant produces diesel injectors. Herzog decides to put their german name on the injectors and make some money selling. At least a few shops feel they are as good as the Bosches from India and don't cost as much.

If some one has any first hand experience with these Herzog components, I'm sure people would like to hear it. Others may differ, but I am looking for feedback on this Herzog stuff in particular, not your opinion of all Chinese produced stuff.

If one were to make decisions based on poor experiences that are posted on this forum, I have read about people having problems with at least Bosch and Delphi, so what would you be left with? I you or anyone else has problems with the bosch and delphy injectors then most likely the fuel is dirty or not enough care was used installing them [ dirt got into them] i have used bosch nozzles for many years and never had one fail in short order. on the chinese made ones i got once a set of 8 new injectors and pop tested them, they ranged from 1900 to 2500 psi + some of the return nipples where loose and all of the nipples pointed every direction but the right one. The vendor had told me they where bosch inj and nozzles, but no name was on them, after taking one apart, just an odd # on the nozzles too. I send them back.

Some chinese stuff is ok, like heads and blocks, depending on who makes them[ there are several] but the 6.2 & 6.5 injectors are all junk. at any price they are expensive.

"6.2 and 6.5 injectors are all junk" You've tried or tested "all" of them? You may be right, but that your assessment is pretty empty if you only have experience with one set. From whom did you buy that set and how long ago? With this information, one can at least identify ONE source of junk injectors.

Alright- What is a decent price for a set of genuine delphi, bosch or stanadyn injectors and where to buy from? Thanks, Dave

I would purchase them from either Heath or Kennedy! They both stand behind their products and the only places in the world that I know of were the owners of the store will talk to you on the phone and answer all of your questions(even stupid ones). This is were I will purchase my injectors, even if they are a little more. To me the extra price is a peace of mind, and a great product from a great store with some of the best customer service you could ever ask for.
Wish you luck with your choices!

i think the preproduction parts and out of spec pieces and parts are put together and sold as other or no name components. companies set up plants and counterfiet parts go out back door, unless they have good(tight) control over plant. faria gauges lost $2 million dollars in warranty claims in 2002-3, only way they could tell was QA stamp/markings were not inside. have noticed poor quality on products, rough finish, parts stampings are not same, seems like running stampings longer than should. where do you think those wheel studs that stretched came from? i have a guess.

"6.2 and 6.5 injectors are all junk" You've tried or tested "all" of them? You may be right, but that your assessment is pretty empty if you only have experience with one set. From whom did you buy that set and how long ago? With this information, one can at least identify ONE source of junk injectors. You should read the post right I said the CHINESE injectors are junk, the ones with just a # on them, I don't remeber it was last spring. RJ Performance was the vendor, they work under a diff name in the US.

8 out of 8 bad, pretty good average I think. I know of three others that tried them, 2 of them are pump and injector rebuilders. most of them where either out of specs or had issues with return line nipples .Is that good enough for ye.

How many of you poptest new injectors? and how many rebuild their own. most people haven't a friggin clue of what they buy .

Ah, my buddy RJ... We in Alberta don't usually admit to that, you know.

In the USA, it's 65-diesel-direct, if I remember right. Home of the 1/2-price-sort-of AMG motor. Same thing, but different.

Thanks for the additional information, Bison. I didn't write my last post as clearly as I should have.

Ah, my buddy RJ... We in Alberta don't usually admit to that, you know.

In the USA, it's 65-diesel-direct, if I remember right. Home of the 1/2-price-sort-of AMG motor. Same thing, but different.Glad he is your buddy, You admitted it, :p: ,must be the only one left in Alberta :D

now I'm curious. It's a bit out of topic, but is RJ or 65 unreliable? e.g. I was watching a 6.5 turbo they sell advertising it will improve your boost by up 25% $599 new

now I'm curious. It's a bit out of topic, but is RJ or 65 unreliable? e.g. I was watching a 6.5 turbo they sell advertising it will improve your boost by up 25% $599 new stay away from them