http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a_HL22tswTWE&refer=home

GM plans to cut production capacity of trucks by 700,000. We are all driving dinosaurs.....:mad:

Yep, truck/suv production supported the old more HP and TQ myth. Deja vu all over again courtesy of GM/Ford etc. Hopefully they can reinvent themselves quickly for today's demands. The sad thing is the new 4.5L specs are the wrong direction.

I figured something like this would happen. GM needs to get the company right-side up and making profits again. If this helps them then I'm for it. I hate for the workers to lose their jobs, but GM is posting big losses. They need to be able to compete with the small fuel efficient car market. Hopefully this will help and some of the technology will make it into the trucks. I would gladly buy a 35-40 mpg full size truck or suv. Don't get me wrong, I love old school fuel guzzling power, whether it's gas or diesel, but I would love a 40 mpg daily driving full size truck.

Wow. That sucks and now it looks as if they will shift to build more cars. Wonder what is next for them?

You mean the 30% increased fuel economy over a similar gas engine is the wrong direction?

The sad thing is the new 4.5L specs are the wrong direction.

Some day GMC will be making 2 wheeled 50cc City Scooters.
Thats what my kids are going to have to drive when they finish University.
It Will probably still cost them $50/week for 2 gallons of fuel.

You mean the 30% increased fuel economy over a similar gas engine is the wrong direction?

I think he means they are focusing on being the most powerful and not the most fuel efficent.

You mean the 30% increased fuel economy over a similar gas engine is the wrong direction?

With diesel being 50-70 cents more per gallon and the economy being what it is and with the diesel option costing at least $2500 or possibly much more, yes it is headed the wrong direction. Unless they can make this new engine get over 35mpg which I am not sure is even possible with all the emissions crap.

This is not good news - Morraine, OH is the Duramax engine facility

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080603/...m_shareholders

I think he means they are focusing on being the most powerful and not the most fuel efficent.

Generally speaking GM has been able to do both.

Regarding the 4.5L, I do agree that it seems GM is trying to push as much power out of it as they can as opposed to mpg. But, that could just be the difference in the stock tune the put on it when it goes into production. I do think smaller diesels are their best chance to save what interest is left in the pickup market. Face it, everyone here knows there are some things those compact gas misers just aren't going to be able to do for us. If GM can release a diesel 1/2 ton that gets mpg figures in the high 20's it may still sell. It may even become an option for the 3/4 ton market. Granted, a 4.5l in the 3/4 ton won't be for everyone but it would be fine for many.

Rant on
The thing that pretty much ticks me off is GM is already selling fuel efficient vehicles in the European market. Instead of going back to the drawing board and having something for us in maybe 3-4 years, why not tool up left side drive versions of some of those vehicles? Take a look at the cars on http://www.chevrolet.co.uk (http://www.chevrolet.co.uk/). They have some reasonable sedans and crossover SUVs with 2.0l diesels that get 30-40 highway mpg (after the conversion from imperial to US gallons). Even a small compact with a .8l gas engine that gets around 50 mpg that would be a great city commuter. But nooooo.... They can't sell those here. They need to invent something special for the US market, which probably won't be ready until the current gas bubble bursts and people are comfortable buying SUVs again. What they'll probably do is release the Volt Plug-in Hybrid for twice the price of a Prius (the figure $40,000+ is being thrown around) which nobody will buy, declare it a failure and say Americans don't want efficient vehicles. GM needs a major reality check!

Rant off

That's what I don't understand. I hear how the european market offers nothing but compact vehicles with small diesels. Why can't they bring those vehicles or at least the thought over here. I would easily buy a car with a 2.0L diesel. I would have bought a VW w/ a diesel but I'm old fashion and stick with "american" brand vehicles.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=67365&stc=1&d=1212610929

That's what I don't understand. I hear how the european market offers nothing but compact vehicles with small diesels. Why can't they bring those vehicles or at least the thought over here. I would easily buy a car with a 2.0L diesel. I would have bought a VW w/ a diesel but I'm old fashion and stick with "american" brand vehicles.
The European automobiles don't meet US safety or emissions standards. US emissions standards for diesels are different than European standards, and more stringent, at least for now. (more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards ).

Diesels became so popular in Europe because for many years diesel fuel was even cheaper relative to gasoline than it was here. More recently, diesels have the advantage in lower CO2 emissions than gas-burners. Euro-spec emissions regulate CO2 (for Kyoto compliance, even though most European countries aren't actually in compliance).

Inability to meet the new US 2007 regs. is why VW didn't have a 2007 diesel Golf in the US (they stockpiled 2006s to cover the gap until they could meet the US EPA regs). For now, the only diesel versions of European cars sold in the US are the more expensive ones (Mercedes & VW Touareg): http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx2008f.jsp?hiddenField=Fuel&atvtype=diesel&year=2008

It looks like the VW Jetta diesel is returning for the 2009 model year: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx2008f.jsp?hiddenField=Fuel&atvtype=diesel&year=2009
and gets fuel economy rivaling that of the much smaller Smart car:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008car1tablef.jsp?id=25151
(but even the premium gas required by the Smart is cheaper than diesel fuel)

It's not just emissions regs, either. Although European cars must meet generally similar safety & equipment standards as US cars, they're not exactly the same standard. So, they cannot be imported here merely by changing the speedometer & odometer to be calibrated in miles instead of kilometers. For the manufacturers, reworking some Euro-spec cars to make them US compliant is a very expensive process.

For some time I have been advocating that the US government should grant wavers to allow imports of at least limited numbers of almost-Euro-spec cars, in order to let manufacturers test the market without the huge capital cost of making them fully US compliant.

But it seems that if they did, surely somewhere down the road, someone would "suffer" some loss from one of those wavered non-compliant cars and the subsequent lawsuit would put an end to their importation.

It would be even better if US and Euro-spec regs were closer to being harmonized.

But with all the auto plant layoffs, US labor unions wouldn't like anything that increases imports, either.

You beat me to it. Unfortunately you are spot on.
It would be nice if we could at least get those small diesel powerplants into some of our cars now. I just bought a TDI Jetta because there isn't any other option. I like my wife's G6 better but it can only muster 30-32 mpg. Drop the TDI in the G6 and it would be an even better commuter.

You beat me to it. Unfortunately you are spot on.
It would be nice if we could at least get those small diesel powerplants into some of our cars now. I just bought a TDI Jetta because there isn't any other option. I like my wife's G6 better but it can only muster 30-32 mpg. Drop the TDI in the G6 and it would be an even better commuter.

And if they dropped it into a G5, that would be awesome too. I really hope they still mkae the 4.5L!!

Men we will all make it threw this just fine. Ford,Dodge are going threw the same thing. the Duramax are not going anywhere and to me that what counts the most!!!!

Elvis_knows,

Another reason why I love this sight. Always learning new things. Thanks for the explanation.

Elvis: I do understand the difference in regulations between US and Europe vehicles. Well, maybe understand isn't the right word but I realize there are differences. :) While my initial rant may have implied it, I realize it's more to it than putting the drivers seat on the left side of the vehicle. But I do still believe the modifications necessary to meet US regulations would be less expensive than designing a car from the wheels up. It seems Volkswagen is able to modify their diesel that meets US regs. Honda is supposedly about to market one as well. But the Detroit 3 are still stuck on only using diesel in trucks.

Why is it the European vehicle manufacturers (Mercedes, BMW, Volvo...) offer one line of vehicles for both US and Europe. But from Detroit it's two completely different vehicle lineups?

Men we will all make it threw this just fine. Ford,Dodge are going threw the same thing. the Duramax are not going anywhere and to me that what counts the most!!!!

I sure hope so... but based on financials, market changes, and oil prices it is far more likely that at least one will be gone or aquired and the others will have to become entirely different organizations to survive.

Why is it the European vehicle manufacturers (Mercedes, BMW, Volvo...) offer one line of vehicles for both US and Europe. But from Detroit it's two completely different vehicle lineups?
My guess is it's a marketing decision based on their belief that they cannot compete in the European market with the same vehicles they sell in the US.

For example, GM has small cars in Europe, tailored to European driving conditions, like Opel. In Europe, Ford has "Transit" vans similar to the Dodge Sprinter. They both serve demands of different markets. Neither GM or Ford sells a lot of pickup trucks in Europe - they aren't popular there. What is popular there (mainly for businesses that need them) are vans like the Sprinter. Until recently, the Sprinter was languishing in the US market, and even with high fuel prices, it still is not exactly a hot seller.

Until very recently, many US buyers were interested in SUVs and light trucks, just for ordinary uses. The growth in pickup truck sales in the US over the last 15 years was driven almost entirely by people who wanted them, but did not actually need them; forty years ago, the counterparts to those same people typically 'wouldn't be caught dead' in a pickup. During the same time, there was practically no demand for such vehicles in Europe because fuel prices (and taxes on vehicles of that type) were already too high.

In comparison, they European manufacturers you cited were traditionally after the lucrative US market, and with the exception of VW, most of these are not very small, highly fuel efficient models.

FWIW, GM has for many years sold a very small car just across the border in Mexico, currently called the "C2"
http://www.chevrolet.com.mx/content_data/LAAM/MX/es/GMMGM/showroom/chevrolet/modelos/chevy/diseno.html
(I'm not sure where they make it) and throughout Latin America, but that car is not available in the US.

So, now that fuel prices have skyrocketed, why doesn't Chevy simply start selling the Chevy C2 here in the US? It's left-hand drive, and getting it here is no problem. But it's probably too expensive to make it compliant with US safety and emissions standards. Yet those SAME cars can legally be driven on US roads by Mexicans or US ex-pats.

Chevrolet did sell the Metro in the US until somewhere around 2000. But US safety standards changed, and it wasn't a big seller anyway, so rather than spend the money to upgrade it, the canceled it. The Aveo is its closest successor (though its much heavier than the Metro was).

Check out this little 1.8 "brat" they also sell in MX.
http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chevrolet.com.mx%2Fcontent_ data%2FLAAM%2FMX%2Fes%2FGMMGM%2Fshowroom%2Fchevrol et%2Fmodelos%2Ftornado%2Fdiseno.html&lp=es_en&btnTrUrl=Translate

My cup is half full! In a few years my LBZ will be a classic.

I think they see the writing on the walls, Toyota is coming out with a new 1 ton that will eat GM's lunch.

Hino which is owned by toyota will be making the diesel engine. I have three Hino 5 ton Box trucks for that last 15 years and have never put a dime in them, other than oil, fuel, brakes, tires....oh and windshield wiper blades.

I know I will be the first in line when they bring it out

http://www.truckforum.org/forums/toyota-truck-forum/12710-2008-toyota-tundra-diesel-dually-1-ton-diesel.html

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/30/sema-2007-toyota-tundra-dually-diesel/

This truck was built for SEMA to gauge customer interest in oil-burning 1-ton Toyotas here in the U.S.A., but it's far from a production vehicle. Toyota took a decade and a half to make the jump from midsize trucks to 1/2-ton pickups, so we don't expect them to jump into the diesel deep end of the fullsize truck market

Well on the Toyota 1 ton truck I doubt it will be built. From JD Powers and others say Toyota is shelving the diesel 1 ton truck. With fuel prices and their truck sales are down just as the big 3's are.

Men we will all make it threw this just fine. Ford,Dodge are going threw the same thing. the Duramax are not going anywhere and to me that what counts the most!!!!

I think GM is in better shape then dodge and ford, GM Relies alot on there trucks and suv sales , but i don;t think they rely on them nearly as much as ford and dodge do.

i saw that toyota 1ton at sema. it was a bad unit though. if toyota can make a 4cyl gas motor run for over 300,000 miles i can only imagine what their oil burner can do.

i saw that toyota 1ton at sema. it was a bad unit though. if toyota can make a 4cyl gas motor run for over 300,000 miles i can only imagine what their oil burner can do.
Who says Toyota is the only one that makes a small gas engine that goes forever? I have 250,000 miles on my 4.3L V6...in a HALF TON truck! We let my grandfather drive it for a few years to/from the farm before he passed, and he's the hardest person on rigs I've ever met...he wouldn't turn a trap if the wheels were still turning, and when they quit, he moved on to something else, no maintenance...anyway, it survived my teen driving years, his hard farm use, and now sees daily driver duty to/from work, and occasionally hauls a bed full of mulch. All of our local rural mail carriers went through a phase about 10-15 years ago where they all thought they needed to drive Toyota trucks...well, after seeing that you have to replace the exact same parts on the foreign truck as you do on the domestic truck except you generally pay a premium for the foreign parts, they've all since gone back to domestics...

i saw that toyota 1ton at sema. it was a bad unit though. if toyota can make a 4cyl gas motor run for over 300,000 miles i can only imagine what their oil burner can do.

Didn't that truck have a Hino engine?

toyoya owns hino
they will never product that truck it was just for show....
I also own an 81 impala. original 229 V6 540000 miles ex NYC taxi. original motor and trans still ran when i junked it last year.
everyone preaches imports. I personally hate them. there is no character in the cookie cutter cars today and they are part of our economy problems...

everyone preaches imports. I personally hate them. there is no character in the cookie cutter cars today and they are part of our economy problems...

So is that a Harley that you're riding in your avatar?:rolleyes::D

It's probably one of those new Buell's.
Yes, I am kidding.

everyone preaches imports. I personally hate them. there is no character in the cookie cutter cars today and they are part of our economy problems...

I don't think that those that purchased said "imports" did so because they liked them better or they were styled better.

I think people buy Honda/Toyota because for many many years they were simply the best VALUE for their hard earned Cash.

Toyotas that lasted 350,000 miles - yea gassers. Show me an American vehicle in the same league...about the only one that I can think of was the old 60's Valiant slant 6. I had one and it finally calved after 289,000 miles...the tranny went. But really, since then, nothing but gas guzzling junk that had bad fit, lousy fuel economy, K car mentality. Cheap crap that was outlasted by Toyota and Honda an easy 2 to 1 (conservatively).

You talk about economy problems - look no further than to some of the unions. Are they the promoters of efficiency and productivity..??? Get real. That my friends is the real issue. The Asian Car manufacturers embrace new technology, preach efficiency and productivity..all the while making product that lasts and gives VALUE. I speak here for both US and Canadian industries in general, not just the auto guys.

Here in NA, we are the last to embrace high tech. why.? becasue many are told if you do, that "robot" will put you out of a job. BS. The real truth is that if you don't add said "robot" your company may well become uncompetitive in a global economy..and then all of you are out of a job.

Well here we all are...we didn't add the robot (and I just use that word metaphorically), and now a lot of the industries are gone.

I mean good lord, I am in an industry here in Alberta that uses a ton of welding and the fabricators are still using stick electrode..!!!!! Unfreakin believable given the state of Flux and Metal cored wires along with hi speed mechanized welding processes available.

I must say however the loo ming labour crises in all of the civilized world is starting to change mentalities and automated solutions are now being entertained...slowly though - it still hasn't sunk into our heads yet as a Nation/Nations.

Anyway..our family is 50/50: 1 Dmax and 1 Corrola. and about to go 33/33/33. I am looking for a 60mpg car...only one I know of is a VW Jetta tdi. (2003 model) and may even add a grease kit to it.!!. Forget the Prius/Smart car or some other such BS Hybrid. Hybrids are a joke as far as I am concerned...high priced product that will not pay back the increased initial purchase price over it's life in saved money for fuel. And what happens when the batteries are toast..?? probably $7-10,000 for a new set. Besides those things are no better on the hwy than anything normal...only for city use.

btw: Not trying to piss anyone off here...just my take from N of the border.
We pay even more than you guys do for Diesel. $1.37 litre X 3.68 Litres per Gallon (US) and it comes to: $ 5.04 a gallon. That the flippin Cdn Government for ya...tax ya till ya puke.!!

cheers,

stk

My wife an I have a 97 C2500 (my mostly driver), a 02 Camaro SS (my mostly driver during the summer), and a 98 Honda Civic EX (wife daily driver). The Civic is a fantastic car that was not only built for value, but it's a drivers car as well. It handles well and gives great steering feedback when pushed to the limits. Come on, Honda's "cheap car" has double wishbone suspension front and rear! At least ours does. Although in my experience, Honda's automatics are not the greatest and most need them replaced or some major service to get to 200k.

Given the choice of similar products I will hands down buy American, but it's only been in this decade that GM has caught up to Honda in terms of fit, finish, and drivability. My 97 C2500 will roll over 200k before the end of the year, but I really think any vehicle (including a Yugo) that is well taken care of will go a long way. The problem is that most people don't take good care of good cars and really don't take care of cheap cars (i.e. they are disposable to non-car people).

btw: Not trying to piss anyone off here...just my take from N of the border.
We pay even more than you guys do for Diesel. $1.37 litre X 3.68 Litres per Gallon (US) and it comes to: $ 5.04 a gallon. That the flippin Cdn Government for ya...tax ya till ya puke.!!

cheers,

stk

I recently purchased a TDI Jetta and absolutely love it. The low rpm torque curve of the little 1.9 diesel embarrasses the similar sized gas engine competitors.
BTW, diesel has hit 4.999 a gallon here in central Ohio. What really pisses me off is that regular unleaded is 3.879. So much for diesel prices normalizing when heating oil season ended.

So is that a Harley that you're riding in your avatar?:rolleyes::D

Sadly, No. If the Americans would build a Sport bike worthy enough, I would be 1st in line.
There is a company called Fischer that was supposed to build the new "American superbike"
Designed an Awesome chassis and suspension.
Then cheaped out in the end and used of all things a chinese manufactured engine.
If Harley built a Vrod powered race bike, and kept it priced below 12000 I would buy it right now.

Sadly, No. If the Americans would build a Sport bike worthy enough, I would be 1st in line.
There is a company called Fischer that was supposed to build the new "American superbike"
Designed an Awesome chassis and suspension.
Then cheaped out in the end and used of all things a chinese manufactured engine.
If Harley built a Vrod powered race bike, and kept it priced below 12000 I would buy it right now.

Just squeezing your shoes a bit after the "import" jab, nice bike! I've had several bikes, all Japanese except for one short stint with a Harley 350 Sprint.;)

Sadly, No. If the Americans would build a Sport bike worthy enough, I would be 1st in line.
There is a company called Fischer that was supposed to build the new "American superbike"
Designed an Awesome chassis and suspension.
Then cheaped out in the end and used of all things a chinese manufactured engine.
If Harley built a Vrod powered race bike, and kept it priced below 12000 I would buy it right now.

I thought the V-Rod engine was designed overseas? I could be wrong though. I myself have owned all Japenese sportbikes, one 2005 Triumph Sprint ST, and one 1942 Harley WLA. The Harley really brought a grin to my face. Hardtail and a jockey shifter. Plus it being old as dirt and still on the road was pretty neat.

I believe V-rod was all Harley design done in Milwaukee, at least that's what was shown on the Discovery Channel covering the design & development. Was not popular with hard-core Harley folks, because they thought it was "too Jap" with shaft drive, water cooling and many other aspects favored by the Japanese.

The vrod was designed by harley and porsche.... still built here but many parts on harley are now japanese. most have nissin brakes and showa suspension both japanese.

The vrod was designed by harley and porsche.... still built here but many parts on harley are now japanese. most have nissin brakes and showa suspension both japanese.
My wife's FXD seems to have more Japanese made parts on it than my Kawasaki. They should come with a label "Assembled in USA" - too many parts were prebuilt elsewhere.