How much is a 4.5 DMAX going to add to the sticker price of a 1500? I love my 2500 DMAX, but I figure that the cost to own a diesel over a gasser costs me about $ 12,300.00 more over 5 years. That's an initial cost of about $ 7,500.00 for the truck and $ 4,800.00 for the premium of diesel over gas (right now, it's running about .70 per gallon more than gas). IF the 4.5 DMAX is going to add around $ 7,000.00 or so to the price of a 1500 and only cuts my fuel cost by 1/3 to maybe 1/2 of what it is right now, I don't see the cost effectiveness in making the decision to by a 1500 DMAX over a 2500 DMAX. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the idea, but as much as I love my DMAX, I just miss the days of when diesel was cheaper than gas - I don't think we'll ever see those days again. But back to the question - ANYBODY KNOW HOW MUCH ONE OF THESE 4.5'S IS GOING TO ADD TO THE STICKER PRICE YET????

Nobody knows the official answer yet, but my personal best guess is $3k-$4k for the diesel option versus the base gas engine. But a more relevant comparison is how much more over the optional gas engine with the greatest torque, which I suppose is the 502 CID V-8.

Whatever the premium is, it will be substantially less than the 6.6 Duramax, especially since it will be using GM's 6L90E tranny instead of the pricey Allison.

I have heard $4-$5k for the option. Not a solid number though. I am for one going to but one when they come out. I need my 2500 Dmax for the heavy hauling and then to have the 1500 for back and forth to work and weekend trips. The Camaro will be used as the weekend car.

they need to keep it around @2500 over the 6.0/6.2 IMO. I think that this would put it right in the ballpark and sale lots of trucks.

IMO, I think it's going to be a big flop. Truck sales are already floundering and will only get worse as the fuel prices keep rising. GM will not discount the diesel 1500's at all and the gasser models will have heavy discounts I think. If GM or any of the "Big 3" had released a 1/2 ton 5 years ago like they should have, they would already have already recouped all the development and re-tooling costs. They would have proven the motor by now and developed a loyal customer base also that would have helped them thru the down period we are currently and will continue to be in.

Once again, the "Big 3" are behind the curve and now is not the time to be releasing an unproven engine. What is going to happen if the little Dmax is a piece of junk like the International 6.0 was? Has anyone even thought of that?

IMO, if Toyota comes out with their diesel version of the Tundra, it will be yet another nail in the coffin of domestic automakers.....:(

AND I HATE TUNDRA'S!!!!!!

And this is for 2010 model year right?

Sorry for the hijack....I guess i needed to vent.....:o:

they need to keep it around @2500 over the 6.0/6.2 IMO. I think that this would put it right in the ballpark and sale lots of trucks.
Just the emission controls required to meet the new 2010 regs. will probably cost something like that, considering the complexity of the urea injection system and the rising price of precious metals.

I believe the new 6.7 cummins meets the 2010 regs, and I don't think is has urea injection, but don't quote me on that. I think I need to go find an old '82 6.2. My dad had one of those, 2wd, but it averaged 25 mpg, and got close to 30 on the highway. We don't really need 400 hp for a truck anyway.

IMO, I think it's going to be a big flop. Truck sales are already floundering and will only get worse as the fuel prices keep rising. GM will not discount the diesel 1500's at all and the gasser models will have heavy discounts I think. If GM or any of the "Big 3" had released a 1/2 ton 5 years ago like they should have, they would already have already recouped all the development and re-tooling costs. They would have proven the motor by now and developed a loyal customer base also that would have helped them thru the down period we are currently and will continue to be in.

Once again, the "Big 3" are behind the curve and now is not the time to be releasing an unproven engine. What is going to happen if the little Dmax is a piece of junk like the International 6.0 was? Has anyone even thought of that?

IMO, if Toyota comes out with their diesel version of the Tundra, it will be yet another nail in the coffin of domestic automakers.....:(

AND I HATE TUNDRA'S!!!!!!

This logic I don't understand, 4.5L Duramax, flop, but Toyota diesel, success? I think the 4.5L will be a huge success, 10 times over what the Toyota diesel will be. One, the Toyota diesel is a huge engine, not for mpg's. The 4.5L will (should) be much more effiecient, and probably twice the mpg's as any other diesel out today. I know of about 10 people dying to get this 4.5L, nobody I know wants to mess with a Toyota diesel. I think price wise, you could split the 6.6L Duramax option in half, you've got pretty close to the 4.5L option. $3500 give or take a few hundred. For those who need pulling power (not as much as a 6.6L), with mpg concerns, loaded and unloaded, will be all over this option. The fact this engine can fit into any space now occupied by any of GM's V8's, it's logical, this was done to put into multiple vehicles, not just 1/2 Tons and Large SUV's. This 4.5 block could be made with smaller components,(less power, more mpgs for CAFE) and fit into the Hummer lineup, Colorado/Canyon, sport cars, Acadia/Enclave/Outlook/Traverse, etc., like the 4.8, 5.3, 6.0, 6.2, 7.0, same block different internals. More vehicles it goes into, less $$ it takes to get investment back, equals less cost up front. I for one am waiting, patiently, for a Yukon XL or Suburban with this 4.5L. Just my take on things, no offense intended. :D Chris

The 6.7 is the only diesel on the market that meets both the 2007 and the 2010 requirements. No urea injection required.

I think the 4.5L will be a huge success, 10 times over what the Toyota diesel will be. One, the Toyota diesel is a huge engine, not for mpg's.
You are thinking of the Hino engine in the dually that was built for SEMA. Toyota has alot more diesel engines than that.
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/29/toyota-developing-clean-diesel-v8s-for-tundra-and-sequoia/

I believe the new 6.7 cummins meets the 2010 regs, and I don't think is has urea injection.
That appears to be correct:

6.7 HPCR Engine Meets 2010 Emissions
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/articlelive/articles/38/1/Issue-56---67-HP-CR---67-HPCR-Engine-Meets-2010-Emissions/Page1.html
"In January Cummins Inc. unveiled the strongest, cleanest, quietest best-in-class 2007 6.7-liter Turbo Diesel engine, used exclusively in Dodge Ram 2500 and 3500 Heavy Duty pickup trucks. The engine has increased displacement providing increased horsepower and torque while achieving the world's lowest 2010 Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) NOx standard a full three years ahead of the requirements."


I'm not sure why GM is planning on needed to use Urea injection, since Dodge seems to have been able to do it without that. I think VW & Mercedes are, or will be, using urea injection too.

Honda did announce a new type of selective catalyst that generated the ammonia needed on the fly, but that was for a small 4-cyl. diesel, and not available yet.

Late Oct or early Nov of 2007, a published article stated:

"the 4.5-liter achieves 29-mpg while carrying a $5,700 price premium over the gas engine"

Late Oct or early Nov of 2007, a published article stated:

"the 4.5-liter achieves 29-mpg while carrying a $5,700 price premium over the gas engine"


that is a big premium!

Late Oct or early Nov of 2007, a published article stated:

"the 4.5-liter achieves 29-mpg while carrying a $5,700 price premium over the gas engine"

Is that over the 4.8L gas engine, or what? The 6.2 Gas option will probably be close to that number over the 4.8L. I'll wait for GM's official numbers, which I've never seen published, may have missed it though. Chris

Is that over the 4.8L gas engine, or what?
The 6.2 Gas option will probably be close to [$5,700] over the 4.8L.
I don't think soooooo. ;)

Yeah, it's a $2000 option over 4.8L, so it's effectively $3700 over the 6.0/6.2. Question then becomes, does the 6spd have any play in the price, like the Allison does with the 6.6. Chris

the optional gas engine with the greatest torque, which I suppose is the 502 CID V-8..

there is no 502...

That appears to be correct:

6.7 HPCR Engine Meets 2010 Emissions
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/articlelive/articles/38/1/Issue-56---67-HP-CR---67-HPCR-Engine-Meets-2010-Emissions/Page1.html
"In January Cummins Inc. unveiled the strongest, cleanest, quietest best-in-class 2007 6.7-liter Turbo Diesel engine, used exclusively in Dodge Ram 2500 and 3500 Heavy Duty pickup trucks. The engine has increased displacement providing increased horsepower and torque while achieving the world's lowest 2010 Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) NOx standard a full three years ahead of the requirements."


I'm not sure why GM is planning on needed to use Urea injection, since Dodge seems to have been able to do it without that. I think VW & Mercedes are, or will be, using urea injection too.

Honda did announce a new type of selective catalyst that generated the ammonia needed on the fly, but that was for a small 4-cyl. diesel, and not available yet.


They make no mention of what HP rating the 6.7 CTD meets 2010 regs at though...I almost thought I rememberd reading somewhere that the 6.7 meets 2010 regs without urea only at the 300hp rating? I could be completely wrong though.

Navistar's semi-failed VT275 came out ahead of the curve and could have thrown a mini-revolution into the truck market. the VT365 made this impossible, though. Ford disowned that motor and we all know what happened after that. Navi's VT275 was already built and ready to roll with nowhere to go. Imagine a, F-150 work truck (painters, roofers, ect) with an efficient small diesel! Or a base Expedition? That engine was too wide to fit into much else, i think.

As it is they stuffed it in cabovers.

But the idea of a smaller diesel should have been stuffed into 1/2 tons 6-8 years ago.

I am very interested in buying a 1/2 ton diesel, and I would pay a premium if you could get it with a manual trans. Too much to hope for, I'm sure. Imagine the mileage you could get out of that combination in a 1/2 ton!

i would be willing to trade my 08 lmm gas 5.3 in for the 4.5 depending on cost for the diesel its self..

What kind of transmission would these have in them? For putting a lift and wheels on it.

6l90

i have no idea what that means. Is it similar to the one the current dmax's have?

6L90E

6-speed automatic
Used in Corvette, Cadillac XLR-V and Cadillac STS-V to mention a few.

I am very interested in buying a 1/2 ton diesel, and I would pay a premium if you could get it with a manual trans. Too much to hope for, I'm sure. Imagine the mileage you could get out of that combination in a 1/2 ton!

I am also very interested in this diesel. I would love to hear the actual GVW and towing capacities.

They make no mention of what HP rating the 6.7 CTD meets 2010 regs at though...I almost thought I rememberd reading somewhere that the 6.7 meets 2010 regs without urea only at the 300hp rating? I could be completely wrong though.


The reason the cummins meets the 2010 standards is probably becuase the vehicle they put it in is 8701 GVWR or heavier.

Just a guess though...

i have no idea what that means. Is it similar to the one the current dmax's have?
The 6L90 (RPO "MYD") is the same "heavy duty" 6-speed transmission used in the current 6.0L gas HD pickup trucks.
http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2008/Photo%20Library/Transmissions/2008%20Automatics/08_6L90_MYD_LoR.jpg
Though not as strong as the Allison, it provides increased torque capacity compared to the old 4-speed automatic. It has an extremely low first gear, like the 5-speed manual that is no longer offered. Its total gear range is wider than the Allison 6-speed.

Specs are at: http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2008/08truck.htm

2008 Hydra-Matic 6L90 Transmission ( MYD )
Type: six speed RWD / AWD, electronically controlled automatic overdrive transmission with torque converter clutch. Clutch-to-clutch architecture, with integral Electro / Hydraulic Controls Module
Maximum engine power: 452 bhp ( 337 kW ), Diesel: 300bhp ( 223kW )
Maximum engine torque: 531 lb-ft ( 720 Nm ), Diesel: 520 lb-ft ( 705 Nm )
Maximum gearbox torque: 885 lb-ft ( 1200 Nm )
Gear ratios:
First: 4.03
Second: 2.36
Third: 1.53
Fourth: 1.15
Fifth: 0.85
Sixth: 0.67
Reverse: -3.06


More info here:
http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2008/Spec%20Sheet/Transmissions/2008%20Automatics/08_6L90_MYD.xls
http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2008/Whats%20New/Transmissions/2008%20Auto%20Transmission/08_6L90_MYD.doc

well it may be a flop but I will own one for sure! I cant wait to get my hands on one. The dealers are going to call me as soon as they are able to order them.

F the warranty this one is going to be my race around truck.

6L90E

6-speed automatic
Used in Corvette, Cadillac XLR-V and Cadillac STS-V to mention a few.


no thats the 6L80

I have heard $4-$5k for the option. Not a solid number though. I am for one going to but one when they come out. I need my 2500 Dmax for the heavy hauling and then to have the 1500 for back and forth to work and weekend trips. The Camaro will be used as the weekend car.

if you go to the dealer some i should say they have the price for the upgrade in the 1500 pick ups there. right on its about $4500 to $5500 and from there book it states thats for the option. there going to be getting 30 plus mpg thats from the EPA that they have to be there by 2010. so better off ill be placeing my name on the list for one in a subruban.

www.dieselsuburbans.com/10SubDiesel.htm

if you go to the dealer some i should say they have the price for the upgrade in the 1500 pick ups there. right on its about $4500 to $5500 and from there book it states thats for the option. there going to be getting 30 plus mpg thats from the EPA that they have to be there by 2010. so better off ill be placeing my name on the list for one in a subruban.

www.dieselsuburbans.com/10SubDiesel.htm

The surburban getting 30+?????

Not only as a factory option, but think about the applications that it can be applied to in older vehicles as an upgrade engine. A little 4.5L would be an awesome replacement for a 4.3L in an S-10. Or even stuffed in a Jeep. I wish the Diesel would become a more popular engine with the auto makers. It would offer a more efficent powerplant in alot of different vehicles. I'd like to see it brought in to the Chevy/GM line personnally, then need to do something to get back on top of the game.

Andy

if you go to the dealer some i should say they have the price for the upgrade in the 1500 pick ups there. right on its about $4500 to $5500 and from there book it states thats for the option. there going to be getting 30 plus mpg thats from the EPA that they have to be there by 2010. so better off ill be placeing my name on the list for one in a subruban.

www.dieselsuburbans.com/10SubDiesel.htm

I don't think the new CAFE fuel standards kick in until 2020, assuming that's what you're referring to. Interesting that when that law was passed the Detroit 3 were screaming about how it was going to cost too much money to meet those standards. Now it looks like that's what they have to do to survive with current fuel prices.

For the most part, they've already done it in Europe. I wish they'd spend the money to get those nice small diesel engines meeting the US EPA requirements and let us start driving them.

the dealer in my town has my name on the list for one, and there stating that they have to have all SUV'S and trucks above 30 mpg by 2010. watch the news there on there telling us what to expect by 2010

oh one more thing the CAFE have been approved and there active now that they have to get 30 + mpg. just reading the papers i got from the dealer in my town.

jeep has there diesel in there truck charokee, liberty. so i think jeep done it and making 30+mpg. the lady next door has one and she loves it even if she pays more at the pump. but making 30+ mpg now than when she had her gas motor in a jeep. i've been waiting for this awhile now for the duramax in the suburban i think is awsome.

I have notbeen keeping up with news of new regulations so forgive me for this question. Are trucks and SUVs solD in 2010 going to have to get 30+ MPG? That seams quite a streach, most of them now get half of that

The last I saw was the 35 MPG CAFE standards kicking in by 2020.

www.autobloggreen.com/2007/12/18/its-official-congress-passes-35-mpg-cafe-standard/

I find it hard to believe there's a 30 MPG requirement kicking in on 2010. That's only 1 model year away.

i'm just say what i saw could be wrong but i saw 2010.

i'm just say what i saw could be wrong but i saw 2010.

probably likely!

I don't see SUVs going from 17 to 30 in one MY!!! If so they have been realy holding out on us.

they can do it they just have to find the air flow. look at my truck im getting 27 with lly 06.

CAFE standards apply to the total fleet. It means that they must offer a small efficent car to offset one SUV. If a truck is rated at 20 mpg, then to offset that they must offer a car that gets 50 mpg. The more small car models they offer, the easier it will be to meet the CAFE standards.

I'm not sure why GM is planning on needed to use Urea injection, since Dodge seems to have been able to do it without that. I think VW & Mercedes are, or will be, using urea injection too.

Honda did announce a new type of selective catalyst that generated the ammonia needed on the fly, but that was for a small 4-cyl. diesel, and not available yet.


Mercedes, new VW's (2009), and the 6.7 dodge are "Blue-Tec." No urea injection. It's a NOx storage catalyst that is periodically burned out. Super clean, no maintenance.