i bought a 2500 d-max thinking it will tow 16k ish legal. my book says it will tow 12k legal. its a 06 lly cc 4x4 i posted this on the towing section as well, but thought i would get more hits here. my gas tows 2k lbs less. why do i see almost every 2500 d-max towing 35-40ft trailers knowing its over the 12k lb limit. or am i missing something. not even the 3500 cc d-max will tow over 12k from what my book says. the most is 3500 ext cab drw at 16.3k

I believe the 12,000 lbs is for bumper towing. The 16K is for fifth wheel towing.

The hitch "bumper towing" is 7500 straight pull, 12k with load handlers. I believe the 5er or gooseneck towing is 23k. Yes, i am over when pulling my mini-ex, the trailer/mini-ex weight a little over 11k but i drive it responsably since i have no load handlers. It tows just fine. My dump trailer tends to over weight too, again use caution.

I try not to pull no more than 2.5 times the weight of my truck as a good rull of thumb. So seeing how my truck weighs about 6,000lbs i will try to stay under 15,000lbs. I only pull goosenecks too. The trucks handle them much better.

so what is my limit towing 5th wheel and pull behind? 12k 5th wheel seens light but i could be wrong. ty again

You're Going To Wake Up The Weight Police On Here. I Tow A 38 Ft. 5er At 11500 Empty And 15500 Gvw. All In All You Need To Figure Your Pin Weight On The 5er To See Where The Over Weight Factor Comes In. My Truck With Tool Box 5th Wheel And 2 Pass. And 45 Gallons Of Fuel Comes To 7800 Lbs. So Legally I Can Put 1200 More Lbs. On The Truck Itself But I Alway Put More. You'll Get A Lot Of Different Ans. On Here But See What You Truck Weighs And Do The Math. The Hitch Can Be Upgraded To A Heavier One If Need Be For The Bumper Pull.

I would have to say the percentage is high on at least one of the limits. Just off hand Pay load 2351#, Maximum trailer weight 14,200#, GCVW 22,000#, GVWR 9200#, GAVR FRT. 4670#, GAWR RR 6084#. Pay load gets me 2351# then you have to subtract fuel 182# passengers 5x150# =750#, accessories, hitch, nerf bars, fold-a- cover ,wood. cooler 100#. Now my pay load is down to 1319# and my pin wieght on my 5er is 2500# so I'm at least 1181# over on pay load weight. Thinking about getting rid of the cooler, maybe not. There will be a post after mine on all of the other forums about legality and its good to bring up.

I think it is safe to say a lot of us are not just over weight but way over- My rig is and frankly I don't loose any sleep over it- Mostly because the Duramax and Allison don't seem to mind either :)

I laugh at all of the people who worry about a couple hundred pounds over hurting these trucks. I am in the several thousand pounds over on all of the numbers-

Please don't take this to mean I don't respect folks who stay within the limits- I wish I was.

I try to stay under 2.5X what it's rated at :eek: ):h.
Don't get concerned unless you get over 20K and then I just say use caution and good judgement.

You have to watch you state laws for towing capacity/class of license too. Here in NY the laws contradict themselves with how much you can tow and what class license you need. This will also vary by the Officer who is writing your ticket too.

Not attempting to be a member of the weight police, but before I got my DMax, I had a Frd 250. Bought it new to tow with, followed their tow guide as both I and the RV dealer understood it, and then the trouble began. Severe front to back jerking while attempting to tow. RV dealer said many others were towing the same trailer with the same model truck with no problems. Took the problem to Frd and their answer was that I was 500 lbs over the GVWR of the truck and if I kept towing that trailer, they would void my warranty. To shorten the story, I traded the Frd with 4500 miles on it for the truck in my sig.

limit? limit is what you make it to be in order to carry you and your family to a safe destination, i don't give a red ant's ass what the manufacture says, they always write sh*t to protect warrant isues. so if you trust your horse than run how how you like!!!!!

To evoorng's post. I seem to remember seeing GM towing guide at a dealer, that said a 2500HD Duramax "Gross Combination Weight Rating" GCWR is 22,000 lbs. Load your truck to the max of 9,200 (the door plate rating) and then you would be ok with a 12,800 trailer. If the trailer has a 13,800 plaque on it, I would suggest to weight it rigged, loaded and ready to go. You would have to have all the tanks full of water, take all your 100s of pounds of tools, the generator, and three weeks of food stuffs to get to 13,800. On a 13.8 rated trailer I usually weight in at about 11,500.

The greater challenge is to get the pin weight light enough to keep the truck within it's weight rating. The truck limit is harder to meet, the axle limits seem to be good. The driver axle limit is about 6000 lbs if I remember correctly. Check the door plate on your truck. I'm usually at 6,000 on the drive axle, 4000 on the front, 800-1000 over on the truck total. Nothing a bit of air bags doesn't take care of. Don't get too light on the pin or the trailer will wonder all over the road.

Touch wood.........never seem a highway weight scale sign call in recreational vehicles. But if your in a accident only the operator (driver) gets charged for have an unsafe vehicle on a public road.

...16k on the 5ver...but make sure you get your non commercial class A if the 5vr your lookin at is a trip axle CHP is all over everyones ARSE with that right now muff hugga!! :lol:

You may want to check the drivers license requirements for your home state/province, and the state/province of registration of the truck and trailer. Many only need a car type drivers license, while others may base requirement on weight or length, or number of vehicles in the combination. I'm not sure if the minimum requirements of some states/provinces would be accepted in California when just visiting.

The biggest thing I would watch for is your axle/tire weight limits. I drag around a 40' fiver that weighs 13k empty and dry. loaded and wet I can have 17.5k legal. And then there is the matter of the sea-doo's that I hook on the back of that. Fully loaded I am 26,000. But I am legal on all my axles and 3' short of being too long. And too long is over 75'. Its a heavy load, but all is well and I take my time. Its just the 7-9 mpg that hurts the most.

Load it up ready for a trip. Full fuel and all. Then stop at a truck stop weigh station and find out what each axle load is. You'll have proof in writing and peace of mind with the family on board.

I always go by weight per axle not GVW or GCWR because my truck is an 88 1ton it's GVW is only 9200 pounds and the truck weighs more than that with the welder and flatbed and a full tank. I am more worried about bendinig that old dana 70 than I am of anything else, and breaking the rear sping perches off the frame has been a problem for me I have had to weld then mount back on the factory rivits couldn't handle what the rest of the truck could. I just drive as safe as possible. Hopefully no-one readinig this has seen "HOW TO BREAK A TRUCK" in truck uses because that is what happens when you are overloaded bad and then throw a temper tantrem you just have to respect your load and let your truck do it's thing.

Don't worry about that D70HD. I asume you're refering to an old style 88 1ton? We have one with a lengthened frame,14' flatbed and it almost daily hauls 4500-5000lbs around the ranch,all winter long. Haven't bent or broken anything from the cab back,just ahead of the cab :rolleyes:.


I always go by weight per axle not GVW or GCWR because my truck is an 88 1ton it's GVW is only 9200 pounds and the truck weighs more than that with the welder and flatbed and a full tank. I am more worried about bendinig that old dana 70 than I am of anything else, and breaking the rear sping perches off the frame has been a problem for me I have had to weld then mount back on the factory rivits couldn't handle what the rest of the truck could. I just drive as safe as possible. Hopefully no-one readinig this has seen "HOW TO BREAK A TRUCK" in truck uses because that is what happens when you are overloaded bad and then throw a temper tantrem you just have to respect your load and let your truck do it's thing.

I tow a 34' 5er that is 10,000 lbs dry. I asked the dealer about limits. They looked out at my truck and laughed. They thought it funny that I was worried about overloading anything when I had a Duramax sitting outside.

I've not had any trouble in a year of use, so I guess all is well.

I weigh in at the land fill at least twince a month at 15500 to 16000. Does these mean im illeagle on my 08 2500?

I weigh in at the land fill at least twince a month at 15500 to 16000. Does these mean im illeagle on my 08 2500?

Your good at that weight.

Sometimes, I really feel like the weight ratings on our vehicles is a joke. I mean around the houston area I regularly see trucks like ours hauling small dozers around on 30ft goosenecks.

On my 2500HD Duramax short bed extended cab, I have been towing a 32.5 fiver with a GVWR of 14,000lbs. When I ordered the fiver I got the 7,000lbs axles for the oversized breaks. I use the Breaksmart break controller and in the past 2 years I have not had a problem. Earlier this year when I needed new tires I went to a LT265 75R16 for extra load rating. right after I got the truck I added 3200lb timbrens. I have made 3 trips coast to coast, using I10, I5 and this time I40 and RT99. The fiver and truck ride level, no breaking problems or pulling up 6 and 8% grades.

Last year I had the truck and then the truck and fiver weighted on a CAt scale. The truck with full fuel, myself and my wife and all the regular stuff we carry weighed, Steer Axle 4240, Drive Axle 3200 and Gross Weight 7440. With the truck the same and the fiver attached, Steer Axle 4300, Drive Axle 6220, trailer axles 12700 and Gross Weight 23240 this was on the 245 tires. I believe the sticker on the truck gives fron axle 4800, rear axle 6048 and gross of 9200 with the stock tires. The 265 tires have a rating of 3415 in single configuration, oh I am running single wheel configuration. The 05 rating for CGWR is 23,000lbs.

I do not worry about it at all.

tpinck,
you do realize that you are over the weight limit on your rear axle? If the door sticker is exceeded you can get a ticket for being overweight.

Yes, but 175lbs I am not really worried about, besides that in my travels coast to coast 3 time, I have never seen a weight station that specified an RV and most in CA specify no pick-ups, so how would I get a ticket? Since that weighin I have learned that by putting water in my fresh water tank lightens the pin weight on the rear axle. The tank is behind the trailer axles.

Yes, but 175lbs I am not really worried about, besides that in my travels coast to coast 3 time, I have never seen a weight station that specified an RV and most in CA specify no pick-ups, so how would I get a ticket? Since that weighin I have learned that by putting water in my fresh water tank lightens the pin weight on the rear axle. The tank is behind the trailer axles.


Cool, looks like you have it figured out. I have heard here in so. cal they are looking harder at TT, because so many people are overweight. A nd pulling doubles attracts them even more. I have not had any issues either.

tpinck, Those numbers on the truck look just like mine.

With the trailer, you added 3060 to the truck through the hitch pin, the axles weigh 12,700 for a gross of 15,760. Trailer sticker of 14,000.........

That's 1,760 over on the trailer alone. That may get somebodies attention. More than the 175 or so on the truck.

You may have to run with no water in any tank to get the trailer gross down.

Just my 2 cent.

on edit: As noted earlier, beefing up the componants doesn't change the sticker on the truck or trailer that the cop looks at to get his numbers.

The axle rating is based on the tires. Has nothing to do with the axle itself. Mine tows great.

The axle rating is based on the tires. Has nothing to do with the axle itself. Mine tows great.



This is true, but the DOT goes by the sticker, not by the tires. Unless you go to the DOT and get an inpection and pay the extra fees.

This is true, but the DOT goes by the sticker, not by the tires. Unless you go to the DOT and get an inpection and pay the extra fees.


An earlier post eluded that the axle limit is what is stated on the door. I was just pointing out that the axle is not going to break if you are over hat weight. Legal to be over that, no. Safe with proper tires, yes.

An earlier post eluded that the axle limit is what is stated on the door. I was just pointing out that the axle is not going to break if you are over hat weight. Legal to be over that, no. Safe with proper tires, yes.


I do agree with you, I just don't want someone to tell the DOT cop that we said it was legal and get there truck red tagged.

Well here is something you guys should read:

"Towed a big fiver for years with my f250 with no problems, just like everyone else that goes to Glamis.... Here is one of the best explanations I have ever seen coming from law enforcement (yes the real weight police, not internet "experts") regarding the weight sticker on your door, it's long but worth the read:

The topic is brought up every second Tuesday and everytime someone responds who has no knowledge of the laws but just repeats the same old campfire stories which are flat out wrong. I am a retired state police commander. I commanded a district which had the highest fine producing fixed scales in the state. In addition I was one of 2 of the first Troops in the state to be certified as motor carrier safety inspectors. I taught truck weight and MCS law at our academy. Over the years I weighed a lot of trucks. I also weighed a lot of RVs of various styles, not because of the law but because the RVers asked to be weighed to have their loading checked. Never ever saw any of them even come close to approaching max legal weights.
Simple answer to your question. The sticker on your truck is placed there by the manufacturer. It's like the tag on your mattress. It's required by law to tell the consumer what is in that product. After sales that sticker doesn't have to remain on the vehicle and there are a lot of vehicles legally on the road today which no longer has the sticker because of body repair, etc. The manufacturers do not make the laws. Think about this too. Do you think every Troop or weigh master out there has memorized what all the manufacturers stickers say on every style of truck made? Then toss into the mix 4X4 v 4X2, same model trucks but with different engines, same model trucks but with different axle ratings, or same model trucks but just different years. We don't care what the sticker says or even if there is a sticker. What the manufacturers put on that sticker is not law, it's just a to let the consumer know what that particular vehicle's design specs are. The max weight laws are generally 20K on a single axle, 34K on a tandum axle and gross is 80K. These are federally mandated limits. I say "generally" because gross depends on the bridge length of your vehicle (distance between the front and rear axle) and the number of axles. The 34K can also vary depending the distance between the tandum axles. It could be more. Weight limits may also be posted less than the max on certain roads.

As an RVer you don't have to worry about exceeding the 20K single axle, 34K tandum axle, and 80K gross. There's no way you are going to be anywhere close to any of those numbers. Think about it. On your 5er you put 16" E range tires on a 5K or 6K rated axle. Your suspension and tires wouldn't handle 20K or 34K loads. And no way are you getting anywhere close to 20K on the steer or drive axle on your pickup. Your Big Country doesn't even come close to approaching 34K on the tandums. Your entire rig is likely to be about 20K total. You could not load your 5er and 2500 with enough toys to get close to exceeding the weight limits.



I know we've gone over this a million times and we'll agree to disagree but we can clearly prove that the manufacturers sticker is a general guideline, does not reflect actual equipment on the truck and includes a fudge factor to reduce their liability. If it was truly dangerous to tow over the sticker it would be illegal. How many times have we seen Weekend Warrior change the GVWR sticker on a trailer because someone asks? My trailer is stickered at 16k but I would have no problem putting 18-19k in it. My Superglide hitch was recently re-stickered from 16k to 18k, no design change, it's the exact same hitch. Call Pullrite if you don't believe me. I went to buy a new hitch and they said it's the exact same hitch with a new sticker. Should I feel unsafe because I have an 18k hitch with a 16k sticker? My 06 Ford 250 had a GVWR of 10,000 pounds, the F350 has a GVWR of 11,500 pounds. What's the difference between an F250 and an F350? If you get the camper package with the overload spring, there is no difference. But I should I feel unsafe because of what the sticker says?

ou can't get a ticket for being overweight. There is no law in California or any other state that says you have to follow the weight guidelines on your door sticker. You can get a ticket in California for exceeding the weight ratings of your tires, because those numbers are DOT guidelines not just from the manufacturer. Not that anybody I know or have read about has gotten a ticket for being over their tire limits."


Just thought you guys would like to see this, I have been doing research on this for a while now as I am getting ready to start towing a 40' Ragen toy hauler that has a GVWR of 17000 and I wnated to make sure I got the truck that could do it.

-Bryan

Great post ***nmovin. Finally a weight police officer chimes in. That should be made a sticky.
Tommorrow I am ***nmovin on to the mountains to drink some beer while I float my over-weight ass down the river.

Thanks! I will be here more often as I am hopefully picking up my new (to me) 2003 D-max 4X4 CC SB 6"lift with 35's!! Woohoo! I can't wait!

Great post ***nmovin. Couple of questions.
Has your insurance company agreed to insure the over the sticker weight? How would you handle a denial of coverage after an accident?
One Canadian province and thier public insurance live and die on that sticker, on the truck and on the trailer. In our tort province there is a line or two in my insurance to the effect that the insurance is only valid when the vehicle is operated within the vehicle manufactures specs (door sticker again).



Also, how do we determine which componet is the weak link on our trucks. I have been told that the wheel rims are week spot on a stock 2500.

***nmovin,

Thanks for the info, but I believe it varies by state. In MD, I was told that the stickers are referenced. My Montana had the wrong stickers on it from the factory and it was a big deal to get them all changed. There was a procedure that had to be followed to make it all legal.

And someone is mistaken about the Superglide. My father has the 16k and I have the 18k. The assemblies are different. Even the adjusting bolt for preload is different (3/4 inch on his, 1 inch on mine).

An earlier post eluded that the axle limit is what is stated on the door. I was just pointing out that the axle is not going to break if you are over hat weight. Legal to be over that, no. Safe with proper tires, yes.


Man I would like to know what axles you are running in your trucks. I have bent axles on of the big 3 manufactures trucks, but apparently you have found an axle that won't bend that I need to buy right away. I have blown tires and bent axles and hitches you start pullin the real weight stuff is goin to bend.

Bigblock:
I am not over the limit of a 3500 dually. We are only talking fudging by a small amount. I tow maybe 300lbs over what the door says and I have upgraded my tires to handle it. If you have bent three axles and blown tires because your were over weight then you have alot to learn still. One axle or tire you should have learned your lesson but I see you dont learn. maybe you need a bigger truck.

Turnpike, it's different in the States, and this wives tail has been spread way too many times. No insurance company is going to deny liability coverage because you are overweight. They pay claims on drunk drivers all the time and DRUNK DRIVING is illegal. People do stupid and illegal things every day, insurance still has to pay. If you run a red light, speed, these are violations of laws and therefore ILLEGAL. If you have an accident, they will still pay. May drop you, may jack your premiums to the point you cannot afford them, may even get lawyers involved to refuse to reimburse YOU for your loss if they can prove it, but the liability portion of your coverage will stay pay for any damage you cause to another party.

I am not over the limit of a 3500 dually. We are only talking fudging by a small amount. I tow maybe 300lbs over what the door says and I have upgraded my tires to handle it. If you have bent three axles and blown tires because your were over weight then you have alot to learn still. One axle or tire you should have learned your lesson but I see you dont learn. maybe you need a bigger truck.[/quote]

No I don't need a bigger truck, and if you ever use your truck to it's full potentail and then some shit is gonna break, or bend. But seein as we don't haul campers and other lightweight stuff, just steel and heavy equipment, there is a group of us called hot shotters, who haul what semi don't or won't so our trucks get beat on a little. I hope someday I will learn to haul plastic campers around but until then I will just pull the big heavy stuff the that the guys who don't want a scratch on there truck bed wont haul.:idiot:

if you are breaking stuff then you need heavier equipment plain and simple. You are using your equipment in an un-safe manner if you are breaking it. You will probably harm me in my truck and plastic camper when your over loaded tires blow. I see now where the term hot shotter comes from. Buy something you can't bend and haul things safely.

Sorry I didn't split 1st and 3rd party. Insurance companies will pay the liability (3rd party) fairly quick cause the government forces it, but they can and do get real picky on fixing our own vehicle. Drive drunk and they will refuse to fix the drivers vehicle, they fix the non owned vehicle, and all the thrid party stuff. Same would apply to over weight if insurance company wants to get picky.

The insurance company can also sue you for what it had to pay in the accident. Yes they will cover the accident and if they have a case against you and it is worth it then they will go after you if you were over weight. I knew a guy that crashed a helicopter and the insurance company found out he lied about his flight time in that model. They sued him personnaly for the damages. I know that is not towing something but it shows they will sue you personnaly. Maybe aviation is different but I bet it is not. Insurance is insurance.

I have read about this topic on numerous boards. As far as Insurance Companies go, anytime you lie and falsify information they will find a way to recoup their costs. As far as being overweight, look around next time you are out and about. You will see overweight rigs out there. If you lie, they will come after you, but I have not met anyone who has ever been sued for being overweight by an Insurance Company. I did a search of a few legal sites that the lawyers use and found that folks have been sued because they were in an accident, but the weight was listed as a "Contributing Factor" and may have contributed to the injuries of a second party, non of which were Insurance Companies. The weight was not the primary factor in the collisions, and the Insurance Companies paid the claim on the behalf of the Insured.
I am sure if you knew, and the weight caused an unsafe operating condition, and was the primary collision factor, then you might be sued by your Insurer, but there is nothing on the sites that indicate this has ever happened. The primary causes in the majority of litigation I found were speed and/or intoxication. There were a few mechanical failures, but amazingly the manufacturers were also sued and paid. In this day and age you can sue for anything.

I have read about this topic on numerous boards. As far as Insurance Companies go, anytime you lie and falsify information they will find a way to recoup their costs. As far as being overweight, look around next time you are out and about. You will see overweight rigs out there. If you lie, they will come after you, but I have not met anyone who has ever been sued for being overweight by an Insurance Company. I did a search of a few legal sites that the lawyers use and found that folks have been sued because they were in an accident, but the weight was listed as a "Contributing Factor" and may have contributed to the injuries of a second party, non of which were Insurance Companies. The weight was not the primary factor in the collisions, and the Insurance Companies paid the claim on the behalf of the Insured.
I am sure if you knew, and the weight caused an unsafe operating condition, and was the primary collision factor, then you might be sued by your Insurer, but there is nothing on the sites that indicate this has ever happened. The primary causes in the majority of litigation I found were speed and/or intoxication. There were a few mechanical failures, but amazingly the manufacturers were also sued and paid. In this day and age you can sue for anything.


Right, I feel if you are driving in a safe manner and the tow vehicle is set up to tow properly and you are not towing a earth mover behind a duramax, you will have no problems, not only that you won't have an accident where you are at fault! This solves the problem both ways, you don't get into the accident and if you do its not your fault and there is no issue! Simple and clean, I was simply stating according to the poster of that message, there are no "Laws" for being overweight and that the sticker is just there as a guideline and if you use common sense you will be fine towing 16-18000lbs of toyhauler or the like behind your rig.

I tow about 15,000 5er loaded behind my 2003 Duramax CC shortbox, and it handles it fine as long as I don't push it hard, I chug up hills around 2000 to 2500 rpm, I don't go over 65, ever, I downshift going down hills, I have airbags so the ride is level, and I have good E rated tires.

Also, in regards to the insurance campany, I would like to see how they are going to plan on weighing everything to determine if you are over weight in a bad accident, as most everything would be in chunks!! Drive smart and safe while towing and everthing should be fine. I see guys all the time pass me on the freeway doing 75 80 mpg with their big campers and I shake my head, they don't seem to think of the consequences of what can happen to them or other people if they get into an accident at that speed, or if the trailer blows a tire, not pretty.

YUP! my sentiments exactly!!

i bought a 2500 d-max thinking it will tow 16k ish legal. my book says it will tow 12k legal. its a 06 lly cc 4x4 i posted this on the towing section as well, but thought i would get more hits here. my gas tows 2k lbs less. why do i see almost every 2500 d-max towing 35-40ft trailers knowing its over the 12k lb limit. or am i missing something. not even the 3500 cc d-max will tow over 12k from what my book says. the most is 3500 ext cab drw at 16.3k
I pull around 25M trailer wieght fairly regular. I've got a dually but your truck can handle it with no problems.........