Oil is at $ 122/bbl and heading to $ 200 and the American public is turning away from trucks and SUV's, as evidenced by GM having thousands of SUV's and trucks sitting on lots with no buyers and laying off autoworkers.

I suspect GM upper management will look at the cost of producing the 4.5
with the prospects of $ 7 a gallon Diesel fuel and a souring American truck market.

Just my opinion but I'd say the 4.5 will be shelved soon after the next quarters financial report. (look for massive losses on collapsing truck - suv sales)


A darn shame, this would of been the way to go in the 1/2 ton trucks for sure.

i think just the opposite. There will be always be a need for trucks, this smaller motor makes good hp/torque and should be more fuel effecient than it's predecessors. It's a perfect fit for those who need larger vehicles and mpgs.

This motor will be produced, there will always be a market for trucks, as they are nessecity's despite what people say. GM has way to much invested in this to just cut and run now, it will have a very good market for GM, if they have all the bugs worked out of it and its as reliable as its big brother when it hits the lots.

Actually they need the motor right now. People are buying 1/2 ton gas trucks because they were comparing them to 3/4ton diesels.

A 1/2 ton gas/diesel comparison would be more fair.

The 3/4 ton diesel market will take a hit.

I hope that GM makes this motor! There is a market for 1/2 tonne diesels. Hell.. I would buy one and ditch the 3/4 tonne. Unless I start hauling heavy again.

Even if diesel hit $7 gas wont be far behind. The diesel option will still be cheaper to run than a gas engine. They might not sell as many trucks per year, but that doesn't mean they will cut and run. Diesel's are here to stay.

I bet we'll see it in cars. It will fit in a number of models and give a big boost to meeting CAFE standards.

Truck sales will probably fall back to numbers comparable to the time before the SUV-ication of trucks. Luxury pick-ups and models like that gay-assed Rumble-Bee will disappear but there will always be demand for trucks in the workplace.

I hope GM doesn't put this engine on the shelf. I, for one, am very interested in this engine for a 1/2 tonner. I would get rid of my tahoe and get this new one in either a pickup or tahoe version when it does come out for my personal daily driver.

i think just the opposite. There will be always be a need for trucks, this smaller motor makes good hp/torque and should be more fuel effecient than it's predecessors. It's a perfect fit for those who need larger vehicles and mpgs.


+1

Trucks are the most profitable vehicles for the manufactures so they will do what they can to keep them marketable to the public.

I'll always own a truck even if I don't haul alot of stuff. I love my truck now but I'd have to say that I will be looking into one of these half ton diesels once they're out. More justifiable I guess.

If anything fuel prices have made me more interested in this motor before I was luke warm about it.

I still want a truck because I plan on doing more towing in the future but nothing a half ton couldn't handle.

I want something with better mileage but am not ready to get a car and the gassers are all gutless and I love diesel's

I hope that GM makes this motor! There is a market for 1/2 tonne diesels. Hell.. I would buy one and ditch the 3/4 tonne. Unless I start hauling heavy again.

Hell I am wanting to buy the 1/2 ton and keep my 3/4 ton and live in an all diesel world.

They will definitely not kill this motor. I think it will actually be offered on more and more GM vehicles instead, eventually being offered as an option on every GM truck that currently uses the 5.3L gas engine. As someone mentioned earlier, despite declining full size SUV and truck sales, there will always be a need for such vehicles, and they aren't going away anytime soon. This new diesel gets better fuel economy than the gas engines, and it greatly improves GM's CAFE numbers. That reason alone makes it a very important engine. I could even see things getting to the point where CAFE requirements get so tough for trucks and SUV's that GM may ONLY offer the diesel engine, and do away with the gas V-8's all together. Probably wouldn't happen for another 10 years, but it could get there. Seems like Ford is going that route already.

What you guys are missing is the fact that GM has lost massive amounts of money and that trend will continue and increase this year. They slipped to # 2 behind Toyota because Toyota is building fuel efficient SMALL cars.

With the fact that 1/2 ton trucks and SUV's sales are DEAD and ain't going to come back with oil at > 120 BBL and a recession in progress, they have to look at shelving the 4.5 duramax to conserve capital.

Placing a diesel in a 1/2 ton looks good on paper but the consumer masses just won't buy it. Without high sales numbers, they will not spend the money. Pure business decisions.

Even a Company like GM can't post mega millions in losses and survive. The pressure will be on to shift from trucks and SUV's to small, hybrid cars and that takes capital, capital they don't have anymore.

Speaking from my heart as 3/4 ton Diesel truck lover, I hope they do the engine. Speaking as an MBA, they can't afford to do it, at least not now with the economic realities of $ 120 BBL oil

Just my opinion

They can't afford not to do it. What give all the market share to Ford or Chrysler? Everyone is working on a light duty diesel for pickups. What they need to do is make a v6 version or a 4 cylinder for cars.

What you guys are missing is the fact that GM has lost massive amounts of money and that trend will continue and increase this year. They slipped to # 2 behind Toyota because Toyota is building fuel efficient SMALL cars.

With the fact that 1/2 ton trucks and SUV's sales are DEAD and ain't going to come back with oil at > 120 BBL and a recession in progress, they have to look at shelving the 4.5 duramax to conserve capital.

Placing a diesel in a 1/2 ton looks good on paper but the consumer masses just won't buy it. Without high sales numbers, they will not spend the money. Pure business decisions.

Even a Company like GM can't post mega millions in losses and survive. The pressure will be on to shift from trucks and SUV's to small, hybrid cars and that takes capital, capital they don't have anymore.

Speaking from my heart as 3/4 ton Diesel truck lover, I hope they do the engine. Speaking as an MBA, they can't afford to do it, at least not now with the economic realities of $ 120 BBL oil

Just my opinion

Speaking as an MBA, they can't afford to do it, at least not now with the economic realities of $ 120 BBL oil

Time to head back to business school :p:

In Europe where fuel is even more expensive.....are their more or less diesel vehicles??

I'm sure in your studies you learned what "sunk costs" are. The several hundred millon dollars spent to develop the engine is just that...... already spent. They really can't afford not to produce the engine. :)

F-150...the number 1 selling truck in America for the last 30 years.

Time to head back to business school :p:

In Europe where fuel is even more expensive.....are their more or less diesel vehicles??

I'm sure in your studies you learned what "sunk costs" are. The several hundred millon dollars spent to develop the engine is just that...... already spent. They really can't afford not to produce the engine. :)

excellent post, when i was in europe 9 years ago gas was over $4 a gallon even at that time and every car truck and bus was a diesel, theyve known something we dont for a long time and us Americans have been too stubborn/stupid to realize it. for example, my first car was an 86 diesel Jetta and that thing got 45MPG! not bad for a car built to mid 80's technology, and now all these sub econo box toyota yaris's and such are barely claiming 40MPG, big deal!

What you guys are missing is the fact that GM has lost massive amounts of money and that trend will continue and increase this year. They slipped to # 2 behind Toyota because Toyota is building fuel efficient SMALL cars.



No, I disagree with the rationale. The consumers are the issue, not the product. The trend, unfortunately, will probably continue.

Most people don't even realize that their purchase makes a difference. Parents buy their kids a 1) cheap or 2) smaller car. Who makes cheap cars? Hyundai/KIA and Toyota/Scion. if questioned, the parent would probably say - "What difference does it make? It's only one car!". Let's say they buy them a Toyota Corolla - then the kid gets married and buys a Camry or an Accord or a Toyota truck. The Big Three market has lost them forever.

If the parents bought an Aveo (Korean-made Chevy) or a Cobalt (Mexican?-made), at least when the kids upgraded, they would consider a GM/Ford/Dodge. The Aveo and Cobalt get great gas mileage in a very reliable package. If you want to compare trucks, the Silverado can beat any Tundra, and likewise, the Tahoe beats the Sequoia.

Toyota and Honda promote that they are very reliable cars. They've repeated this so many times and with Consumers Reports obvious bias (recently changing a bit, btw) that the gullible actually believe it. Every one of my GM vehicles that I have owned since the 70s have been trouble-free. In that time, I have also owned continously German-made cars, Fords, and a Honda. I bought the Honda used, because I knew I needed a second car that I wouldn't care if it got hit, vandalized, and I wanted to be able to sell it quickly. Sure enough, 10 minutes after putting a For Sale on the Honda, I found a person with a dopey expression going "It's a Honda". I sold it for $2,000 more than I bought it for 2 years earlier.

excellent post, when i was in europe 9 years ago gas was over $4 a gallon even at that time and every car truck and bus was a diesel, theyve known something we dont for a long time and us Americans have been too stubborn/stupid to realize it. for example, my first car was an 86 diesel Jetta and that thing got 45MPG! not bad for a car built to mid 80's technology, and now all these sub econo box toyota yaris's and such are barely claiming 40MPG, big deal!

My 78 Rabbit used to get 53 mpg minimum. Europeans tax diesel and diesel vehicles far less than gasoline powered. Over 50% of european vehicles are diesel.

Diesel power will come back to the US, but consumers need to get the point across that diesel is a cheaper to produce fuel than gasoline. If diesel were selling even par with gas, all diesels would sell (again).

Bio fuels are much easier to produce practically WITHOUT impacting the food supply for diesels. Yet, where do waste our time? Developing ethanol solutions. Get the diesels over on a bio product, and you put a lot of available crude out for gasoline production. Quickly.

i think you will see it in the denali/yukon/sub sooner than was originally planned and possibly hooked to hybrid drive, maybe some cars. COPO Duramax Camaro, would be good one. diesel is more efficient that is why europe market share is around 70% diesel.

They can't afford not to do it. What give all the market share to Ford or Chrysler?
Don't put anything past GM...(see: Camaro, Impala/Caprice, etc., etc)

With the fact that 1/2 ton trucks and SUV's sales are DEAD and ain't going to come back with oil at > 120 BBL and a recession in progress, they have to look at shelving the 4.5 duramax to conserve capital.

A) trucks and SUV's are not dead, they are down in sales. Big difference. Soccer moms who bought trucks for the image because they didn't want to drive a family sedan or minivan are no longer buying trucks. But people who have a real need to haul stuff and people, and make a living using their trucks as tools of their trade, will continue to buy them, and they make up most of the market. Always have.

B) There is no recession in progress, despite what the media is making you believe. A recession is 6 consecutive months of negative GDP growth. We haven't even had ONE month negative yet.

Even a Company like GM can't post mega millions in losses and survive.

Not necessarily true. Most of the losses GM has posted recently were non-cash charges. Accounting B.S. really. You can have billions of net losses, and still be cash flow positive. Cash flow is what matters. As an MBA, you should know all this.

The pressure will be on to shift from trucks and SUV's to small, hybrid cars and that takes capital, capital they don't have anymore.

Capital is not the issue. There is no liquidity crisis at GM. They have $30 billion in cash on hand. Total cost of the 4.5L diesel project is around $85 million. It's not even significant.

Speaking as an MBA, they can't afford to do it, at least not now with the economic realities of $ 120 BBL oil

No offense, but where did you get your MBA from? Not all MBA's are created equal... I know, I have one too ;)

Capital is not the issue. There is no liquidity crisis at GM. They have $30 billion in cash on hand. Total cost of the 4.5L diesel project is around $85 million. It's not even significant.


$30 billion in current cash doesn't sound like much when the company has over $70 billion in short term liabilities. GM's total assets are $148 billion and total liabilities are $186 billion. It's gonna be tough turning it around being that auto manufacturers can't rely on higher profit SUVs and pickups these days.

At least GM and Ford have entered the alternate/flex fuel markets. Using E-85 which i know is really a flop, and hybrids. Dodge is getting left behind real fast!

I think another thing being overlooked is that Oil Companies will increase the production of diesel when the market here requires it. The more numbers of diesel cars and trucks, the more diesel will be produced. Diesels are the future, only way to get lots of power and meet CAFE requirements coming up. The Motori, or however you spell it, deal that GM did with Penske is prime example of how GM knows the future will be diesel, just as others have said about Europe. I have family in Ireland and they've been paying $6+ dollars a gallon for years, and most high demand vehicles over there are diesel. It'll get here, probably sooner than later if the trend for $120+ barrels continue. Right now I'm trying to convince myself to wait another 2 years to get this 4.5L in a Yukon, or get a Hybrid Yukon right now. I know overall, the diesel will be better than 20mpg like the hybrid does. If they can package a basically loaded Hybrid 4x4 at $53K, a diesel without every option possible should be able to come in under that. Just IMO, but diesels are here for the future. Chris

F-150...the number 1 selling truck in America for the last 30 years.

didn't want to burst the almighty bubble on that one, but I have too. The ford F-Series 150-850 is included in that horribly stretched statistic. Who actually is number one??? Hmmm, I wonder may GM???

yeah Chevy's should count as GMCs in the #s since they are convertions. I bet it would be close to say the least.

Europe also has a lot fewer trucks than the US.

I wonder if they would kill the 6.6 and go with the 4.5 in 1500-3500 trucks?

Is there anything in in the new CAFE standards that would presure this?

diesel is more efficient that is why europe market share is around 70% diesel.
For many, many years, diesel fuel was significantly less expensive than gasoline in most European countries, mainly because of overt decisions by most of the federal governments to incentivize diesel. The retail price difference at the pump was much larger there than it was here in the U.S. several years ago, when diesel was somewhat less expensive than regular gas.

In addition, many European automotive diesel engines were intended for ordinary passenger vehicle use rather than being the ultimate towing machine, so they needed only to provide adequate performance (most often, less than their gasoline counterparts).

Also, compared to U.S. emissions standards for diesels, European emissions standards were less stringent (and still are, for now, though that's changing). The same situation existed in Canada, too, at least until recently. That's also why, until recently, the diesel version of the Mercedes Smart car could be sold in Canada but not the gasoline version, even though either one met European standards (Starting in 2008, the situation reversed, and the diesel Smart car is no longer sold in Canada).

For these reasons, European diesel engines did not have as large an initial cost premium as U.S. diesels. Add in much cheaper diesel fuel, and it's not surprising that diesel engines have historically been far more popular in passenger cars in Europe than in the U.S.

It's all about the benjis.

Any news on the 4.5? I'm guessing it is still on target for 2010 MY? I don't know if I can hold out that long, but I would love to have one of these.

I dont think they will shelve it and I hope not! It would be ideal for what I need. I haul horses around and not a massive trailer. So a 1/2 ton diesel would be perfection. I'd buy it. Of course I will always have a truck, nothing else. Well I do have an eye on the new camero but I doubt Ill buy it, could always use that money for another horse or mods to an existing truck. :p:

I will be in line for one when they are released. Diesel is the only way. I would rather own one, even with the cost higher than gas, you are still better off. And it is way better than any of the throw away econo boxes everyone is building.

JMHO.

This motor will and should come out as soon as possible, I know a lot of people who like having trucks would buy one because it is going to get 20+ mpg maybe a lot more, something that the 5.3 can't. I think this motor would turn GM's lagging truck sales around

Gm is closing 4 truck and SUV plants due to a strategic shift from trucks and SUV's to small fuel efficient cars. They are contemplating ending production and sale of the Hummer line as well.

Diesel power will come back to the US, but consumers need to get the point across that diesel is a cheaper to produce fuel than gasoline. If diesel were selling even par with gas, all diesels would sell (again).

Bio fuels are much easier to produce practically WITHOUT impacting the food supply for diesels. Yet, where do waste our time? Developing ethanol solutions. Get the diesels over on a bio product, and you put a lot of available crude out for gasoline production. Quickly.

I agree, surely when all the bio-diesel plants that are currently under construction get online and in full production, it will have to get the diesel/gas price ratio back to normal.
I think the ethanol thing is hurting us. Do I buy ethanol even though I have a FlexFuel vehicle? No! I takes more gallons to go the same miles and has slightly less power. It would have to be a lot cheaper for me to make the switch. Bio-diesel on the other hand, I seek it out and have even paid more for it because it runs better then regular diesel. It's so obvious, Why does our goverment have their head in the sand?

This is not good news - Morraine, OH is the Duramax engine facility

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080603/...m_shareholders (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080603/ap_on_bi_ge/gm_shareholders)

This is not good news - Morraine, OH is the Duramax engine facility

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080603/...m_shareholders (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080603/ap_on_bi_ge/gm_shareholders)

I believe the suv plant is separate from the Dmax engine plant. But still, they should be severely cut back as well.

Yeah, it's only the SUV plant, I didn't know that the engine facility wasn't the only unit in Moraine. But you are right, with fuel prices the way they are, sales of light and medium duty diesel trucks might just slow down the engine facility for the first time since it opened, if it hasn't been already by the AAM strike - I heard vehicle orders were delayed by shortage of axles.

It's so obvious, Why does our goverment have their head in the sand?

I don't think it's the sand they have their heads stuck in.