Not sure if anyone is interest but I found this today on Ebay.....

That thing is badass................aside from that gay 1942 manual t-case handle!! :rolleyes:

Looks cool.

4 wheel drive , Quigly? Looks like a Florida plate . Killer van !!!

Not sure if anyone is interest but I found this today on Ebay.....

I looked on eBay and only found one listed and it isn't the one you have pictures of. If you could PM me a link I would appreciate it. Thanks, Mike

Here's the link....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GMC-Savana-EXT-BODY-4x4-DIESEL-CONVERSION-VAN-WARRANTY_W0QQitemZ170213158691QQihZ007QQcategoryZ6 250QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Looks nice!! wonder if my dad would let me do that with his Savana?

Other then the wheels, I like it!

is that 4wd factory or a conversion???? That's definately slick!!! :cool:

is that 4wd factory or a conversion???? That's definately slick!!! :cool:
it's a conversion. awd is available only on 1500 series.

And its ON SNOW! My 2WD G30 would be parked there until spring if it got on that snow.

I've heard about those 4WD conversions - they only do them on brand new 15-passenger vans straight from the showroom. I'm pretty sure the poster that said they only do the conversions on 1500 series vans is mistaken. I've actually seen pictures of people rock-crawling in a 4WD diesel G30 van which is a lot like getting an elephant to tap dance in my opinion. That van might go on snow, but getting that 9,000 GVW behemoth to stop would be a whole other story. I probably wouldn't even stand next to it in snow if it didn't have studded tires.

Quigley does 4x4 conversions. In Yellowstone there is some vans with tracks.

I'm pretty sure the poster that said they only do the conversions on 1500 series vans is mistaken.
i guess i should have been more clear. GM offers factory installed all wheel drive on 1500 series only.
3/4 and 1 ton vans need to be done aftermarket, to convert to 4 wheel drive.

I likey. Too much $$ though with diesel at $5

And its ON SNOW! My 2WD G30 would be parked there until spring if it got on that snow.

I've heard about those 4WD conversions - they only do them on brand new 15-passenger vans straight from the showroom. I'm pretty sure the poster that said they only do the conversions on 1500 series vans is mistaken. I've actually seen pictures of people rock-crawling in a 4WD diesel G30 van which is a lot like getting an elephant to tap dance in my opinion. That van might go on snow, but getting that 9,000 GVW behemoth to stop would be a whole other story. I probably wouldn't even stand next to it in snow if it didn't have studded tires.

nope not quite..

Quigley does the conversion on ANY brand new van (passenger OR cargo)

they only do 2500 and 3500 vans

how would stopping that 9000lb gvw van be any different than stopping a duramax on snow?

ben

how would stopping that 9000lb gvw van be any different than stopping a duramax on snow?

ben
Oh I don't know - I don't think engine type matters - the thing just weighs SO MUCH (actually 9,200 GVW) and is practically unstoppable when its slick. I've never actually had the courage to drive it in snow. I've driven pickups for years but these large vans on the 1-ton frames for some reason want to keep on going no matter what.

Also it was kind of a general comment on 4WD drivers that almost universally tend to go faster in snow, when they can't stop any faster than anyone else. Everybody has four wheel brakes. Almost every year it snows someone in a 4WD is killed around here in a one-truck accident.

You know, i honestly dont know what the fuss is about driving on snow...


I had an 82 gmc 2500 van (2wd) and drove it around all over the place in the snow....

Of course, it snows (where i lived at the time) from mid october until mid april......


It all comes down to driving for the conditions...and just being used to it.

You know, i honestly dont know what the fuss is about driving on snow...


I had an 82 gmc 2500 van (2wd) and drove it around all over the place in the snow....

Of course, it snows (where i lived at the time) from mid october until mid april......


It all comes down to driving for the conditions...and just being used to it.
I'm no snow virgin. Snow doesn't scare me. I lived in Colorado for years, and in Steamboat Springs for two of those where it snowed 360 inches per year and you didn't even see dry pavement for 5 months of the year. I've also lived in Chicago and New York State. I've driven through mountain passes under blizzard conditions where I had to drive from snow-marker to snow-marker. I've rescued more people and cars stuck in snowbanks than I care to remember. I know you don't mean to say I'm not a good snow driver, but if i think these vans are dangerous in snow without studded tires, I'm pretty sure I'm right.

So it's NOT just driving for conditions and being used to it - some vehicles truly suck in snow. Your 2500 van weighs about 3,000 lbs less than a G30 1-ton van and that extra 1.5 tons of inertia clearly makes a huge difference.

I agree that the accidents around here (NC) are usually from unfamiliarity with snow, but even in Steamboat there was always a flurry of accidents after the first snow of the season.

You are a little off on your weights buddy. My van weighs about 5,700 # empty with a GVWR of 9600#. The difference between 2500 and 3500 is only about 200# in CURB weight. My Dad and I each put 40,000-50,000 a miles on a year playing waste oil heaters in the state of Montana. There are many times we are traveling on emergency travel only roads. Never been in the ditch once and i am running a 50 horse tune. The key is having weght in the van for traction and also a good tire. I prefer a siped tire over studs. Hope this helps.

I agree with you shop... and I prefer driving my 3500 van in the snow.
it seems to handle, go and stop in the snow better than my truck. both are 3500 2wd, but the van doesnt break loose as easy

My 2500 got put to the test and passed , past vans have been capable too . Nothing I own stops good on ice . The vans seem steadier in poor conditions , maybe the tires being on the corners as opposed to being shorter wheel-based. Less tail to wag ?

The van's general chassis and suspension design is almost identical to the truck.
(Note that I'm not saying it is the same frame, but the same layout.)

The van is so similar to the HD pickups that when Quigley does their IFS 4WD conversion, they use HD parts. The 4WD HD pickup lower control arms & knuckles bolt right on to replace the van's coil spring lower control arms & 2WD-only knuckles. Quigley does have to add a cross-member to hold the rear end of the torsion bars.

Dimensions of a 3500 std. length van compared to a GMT800 (OBS) 2500HD regular cab pickup.
Wheelbase - Van: 135"; Pickup: 133"
Length - Van: 224.1"; Pickup: 224.5"
Height - Van: 81.6"; Pickup: 76.2"
Width - Van: 79.4"; Pickup: 79.7"
Track (F/R) - Van: 67.8"/67.8"; Pickup: 68.6"/66.0"
(I doubt that having a 2" narrower rear track could improve stability)

The 3500 vans come with 16"x6.5" wheels but can also accommodate the wider 16"x7" wheels & 265 tires that were for a long time the standard on the 3500SRW (vs. the 6.5" wheels & 245mm tires on the 2500HDs)

The main difference is that the van body is taller than a pickup, which tends raise the center of gravity slightly, although the sheet metal sides of a cargo van are lighter than the glass windows of a passenger van or the extra doors & windows of a crew cab pickup.

But in either case, most of the heaviest parts are all concentrated around the frame level. A pickup truck with rear shell and a ladder rack on top probably has about the same CG as the van.

i've got an extended van (20" longer), and i am happy with the way it drives in snow. i guess being extended does help prevent rear sway. i never felt the back end wanting to slide.
i even use the stock tires in winter, and it does all right. weight definetly helps the van in the snow.

The van's general chassis and suspension design is almost identical to the truck.
(Note that I'm not saying it is the same frame, but the same layout.)
...
Dimensions of a 3500 std. length van compared to a GMT800 (OBS) 2500HD regular cab pickup.
...


All of you guys appear to be talking about standard vans, not 1-ton vans. G20s, not G30s. As I said, I know nothing about how standard vans handle in snow and never made a comment about them. My experience with a 15-passenger 1-ton G30 van tells me they don't do well when conditions are slick for any reason.

turboawd: You say "extended" van, is it a GM G30 (or whatever the current equivalent is)? Extended vans from Ford and Dodge are on normal van chassis with the body extended considerably at the rear. The wheelbase is the same as a standard van. The frames of GM large vans are totally different from their standard sized cousins with longer wheel-bases, and the rear bodywork is not extended.

Shopspecialties: You're right, I was not looking at curb weight, but it's 330 lbs more, not 200. I don't doubt your van is better than your pickup, but I never tried to compare vans and pickups. Frankly, I would have thought it was common knowledge that pickups generally suck in snow, but I suppose I'm going to get argument there, too. :)

You are a little off on your weights buddy. My van weighs about 5,700 # empty with a GVWR of 9600#. The difference between 2500 and 3500 is only about 200# in CURB weight.

I'm not talking 2500 vs 3500, but standard G20 vs extended G30 1-ton. You can get a standard van in 2500 (G20) OR 3500HD, but neither are what I am talking about. The 2500 stds. are not even remotely comparable.

The only difference between passenger and cargo vans is the interior and glass. Otherwise they are exactly the same. My van is a 1 ton extended cargo van. Empty curb weight the passenger 1 ton extended van is about 700# heavier. That is due to seats and glass. The GVWR is only 1000# less on the 2500 passenger and cargo vans. G20 is the same as 2500 and G30 is the same as 3500. You are thinking to much.

All of you guys appear to be talking about standard vans, not 1-ton vans. G20s, not G30s. As I said, I know nothing about how standard vans handle in snow and never made a comment about them.
Yes, we are talking about 'standard vans' made by GM:
G2500 is what is commonly referred to a "3/4 ton"
G3500 is what is commonly referred to a "1 ton"
GM has used these designations for MANY years, possibly since 1996.

The specs I provided are the correct specs for the vans GM has produced since the last minor front-end restyle in 2003, which added slightly to the length.

The phrase in red above appears to most accurately describe your expertise on this subject.

The correct designations are as follows:

Express Cargo
AVAILABLE MODELS
G1500 Regular Wheelbase RWD (CG13405)
G1500 Regular Wheelbase AWD (CH13405)
G2500 Regular Wheelbase RWD (CG23405)
G2500 Extended Wheelbase RWD (CG23705)
G3500 Regular Wheelbase RWD (CG33405)
G3500 Extended Wheelbase RWD (CG33705)
http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/domestic/proddesc.jsp?year=2008&butID=1&regionID=1&divisionID=1&vehicleID=4803&type=0

According to the GM Model & Option Weight Calculator:
http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/domestic/proddesc.jsp?year=2008&regionID=1&divisionID=1&type=0&vehicleID=4803&section=modeloptionweight&page=&butID=21
the base weight difference between a 2500 std. length van and a 3500 std. length van is all of 34 lbs.


G2500 Regular Wheelbase RWD (CG23405) weight:
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=66929&stc=1&d=1211827010
G3500 Regular Wheelbase RWD (CG33405) weight:
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=66930&stc=1&d=1211827010

Engine access in a van is a bear.. that is why gm doesnt do it. Can you imagine how many class C motorhomes they would make if it had a Dmax? They all are 8.1S or ferd v10's. too bad. See a lot of Dmax 4500 1-1/4 ton chasis ,but they cost a ton and are very large. Have never seen a 2500 Dmax class C Why?

You can get a express cutaway van with Dmax. Then you can put whatever you want on the chassis.

The phrase in red above appears to most accurately describe your expertise on this subject.


ha ha, but you seem to have forgotten that this IS a thread about a G30 extended 1-ton van! I make a statement about a G30 extended 1-ton van and you argue with me using information and experiences about totally different vans!

You can say I don't know anything about the topic, but in fact I'm the only one here who is on-topic and apparently the only one here who drives a G30 1-ton exteded van! :)

So ok, you win. Although I'm the one that owns one and has driven it in both good and adverse conditions for many tens of thousands of miles, YOU are the expert and know more about them than I do. Happy? Just for my information...have you ever actually driven one?

ha ha, but you seem to have forgotten that this IS a thread about a G30 extended 1-ton van! I make a statement about a G30 extended 1-ton van and you argue with me using information and experiences about totally different vans!

You can say I don't know anything about the topic, but in fact I'm the only one here who is on-topic and apparently the only one here who drives a G30 1-ton exteded van!

So ok, you win. Although I'm the one that owns one and has driven it in both good and adverse conditions for many tens of thousands of miles, YOU are the expert and know more about them than I do. Happy? Just for my information...have you ever actually driven one?

What you are is, WRONG ONCE AGAIN.

Review the photos in the original post here:
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2617476&postcount=1
and the ebay listing here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170213158691&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fmotors.shop.ebay.com%3A80%2F__%3F_ from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm39%26_nkw%3D170213158691%2 6_nd1%3D%26submit.x%3D0%26submit.y%3D0%26_fvi%3D1

This is a Quigley 4WD conversion of a 2008 GMC 3500 Savana van:
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=65080&d=1209329875
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=65081&d=1209329875

Once again, here are the dimensions of a 2500/3500 van compared to a GMT800 (OBS) 2500/3500SRW HD pickup.

Wheelbase - Std. Van: 135"; regular-cab long-bed pickup: 133"
Wheelbase - Ext. Van: 155"; crew-cab std.-bed pickup: 153"; ext.-cab long-bed pickup: 157.5"

Length - Std. Van: 224.1"; regular-cab long-bed pickup: 224.5"
Length - Ext. Van: 244.1"; crew-cab std.-bed pickup: 239.7"; ext.-cab long-bed pickup: 249"

Height - Van: 81.6"; Pickup: 76.2"

Width - Van: 79.4"; Pickup: 79.7"

Track (F/R) - Van: 67.8"/67.8"; Pickup: 68.6"/66.0"
(I doubt that having a 2" narrower rear track could improve stability)

The standard van is about the same width, wheelbase & length as a regular-cab long-bed pickup.
The extended van is about the same width, wheelbase & length as a crew-cab std.-bed pickup, which is probably the most common configuration owned by members on this forum.

I give up.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I shouldn't have even attempted to argue the facts with him
(and I never actually did dispute his experience, or lack thereof, with a van; I just presented the specs, as published by GM, that the van chassis layout and dimensions is very, very similar to a HD pickup truck).

I planned on buying a Quigley, and visited the Quigley plant, so I know "a little" about them.
The problem is I also wanted to switch to a 6-speed Allison (with a lot of help from Ben, a.k.a. "DURAtotheMAX"), and that was going to be a lot of work, and Quigley didn't want to coordinate with that by either doing the conversion after the tranny swap, or allowing me to use the proper transfer case (different input splines).

In 2010, the 6-speed 6L90 is supposed to be available in the van, and though it's nowhere near as strong as an Allison, it is 6-speeds with a wider total range than the Allison, and about 15% stronger than the current 4-speed MN8.

Back in 2006, I started a thread with pictures of the underside of a Quigley IFS 4WD conversion.
Here it is:
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1484886#post1484886



Supposedly Quigley had stopped doing SFA conversions on GM vans last year, but I guess they changed their mind on that, since the one on ebay is SFA.

I am a big fan of Quigley. A customer of mine (Ressler Chevy) always has 1 -2 in stock at all times. It is hard for me to justify the extra cost of one. Even though I think it would look cool with my bumper and a solid 60 up front.

I am a big fan of Quigley. A customer of mine (Ressler Chevy) always has 1 -2 in stock at all times. It is hard for me to justify the extra cost of one.
Yeah, I sure know what you mean there.

The cost to get 4WD instead of 2WD from GM on an HD pickup is about 3 grand.

The cost to get 4WD instead of 2WD from GM on a 1500 van is somewhere around 5 grand
(and that uses much weaker light-duty parts derived from an S-10 pickup, too).

A Quigley IFS conversion is about 10 grand, and normally they will only do the transaction through a dealer, and only on a new van, which leaves the door open to "dealer markup" (or less discount on the base van price).

All of these 4WD setups will also hurt fuel economy a little, not only due to the added weight, but also because they spin the front axles all the time (IFS center disconnect instead of at the wheel hubs), which adds something else to wear out faster (CV joints).

It's all about the economy of scale, since GM doesn't sell that many 4WD vans compared to how many 4WD light-duty pickups they sell.

But a van has the advantage of far more interior volume, and more than two feet more length inside the cargo area compared to a pickup.

What you are is, WRONG ONCE AGAIN.


YOU"RE RIGHT! That is not an extended G30 1-ton van (or whatever GMC post-1995 equivalent 1-ton van model numbers). I made a mistake, so yes, the original ebay ad was for a std van.

However, my orginal post clearly stated that my G30 1-ton was bad in snow, and YOU decided to tell me it wasn't. Well, I know that it is and you two can post all the specs comparing its size you want to, but in the end I'm the one here who owns one and neither of you apparently has ever even driven one (whatever its current model descriptors call it).

So I give up too. You guys are clearly so expert that you simply know how much traction my van has in slick conditions better than me, a person who has actually driven it for many tens of thousands of miles. God, you guys are good.

Ok , I get it , YOUR van used to suck in snow . After you fix it , maybe try some better tires .:D

Ok , I get it , YOUR van used to suck in snow . After you fix it , maybe try some better tires .:D

Bridgstone Revo's, so my van's tires are excellent. And since I'm the only one here who has ever driven this TYPE of van I still say first-hand experience beats spec sheet experts.

So why don't the experts here get some experience with one? Rent one and drive it in the snow. THEN come back and tell me how great it was. (Just don't forget your cell phone).

Your van must be crazy different all right , didn't have any vans on the hook this year , had plenty of snow in Wisconsin , Wyoming , and Illinois , no chains, stock Bridgestones . Maybe put some weight in , sand bags etc. , our vans carry 1000 lbs or better . Could be the snow you drive in too , wet snow , slicker than deer gut on a door knob , dry snow lots of traction.

If you read my sig you see that I own a 2006 Chevy Express 1 ton extended van. I have over 700,000 miles driving 1 ton Chevy extended vans from a 1988,2000, and 2006. I was not argueing the fact your van was bad in the snow. I was correcting you in your incorrect facts about van specs. As for me being an expert i am not sure about that but I have a fair amount of experience behind the wheel of Chevy 1 ton extended vans.

Tires are where it's at no matter what vehicle you have. I run good tires and never have an issue with the snow. I have been driving full size cargo vans since 88 when I entered the electrical trade. I also learned to drive with rear wheel drive vehicles so maybe that helps

If you read my sig you see that I own a 2006 Chevy Express 1 ton extended van. I have over 700,000 miles driving 1 ton Chevy extended vans from a 1988,2000, and 2006. I was not argueing the fact your van was bad in the snow. I was correcting you in your incorrect facts about van specs. As for me being an expert i am not sure about that but I have a fair amount of experience behind the wheel of Chevy 1 ton extended vans.

Is it a work van? Maybe you carry around a lot of weight normally and that helps in snow. If so then we are comparing apples and oranges. My van is in good shape except for the engine: good suspension, good tires, good shocks and steering, new brakes, no pulling, ABS... but empty it really, really sucks when the road is slick. Maybe yours does too - empty? Yes, I could add 1,000 pounds of sandbags, but that makes it a whole different discussion I think.

Back when it had the government Goodyear POS tires I bought it with it simply would not stop when it was wet. Believe me it is no fun when you close your eyes and pray there is no cross traffic when your van slides into an intersection at 10 mph like you don't even have brakes. With the Revos it stops, but I would never call it good in the wet. Even getting it moving in the wet can be a problem. A couple of thousand pounds in the back would definitely help to get it going when its wet because empty you have to be careful not to stop on an uphill wet incline - it will just spin its tires.

Ok, I might be talked into believing that these vans are ok in snow with 1,000-2,000 lbs of cargo; but empty, the way I usually drive my 15-passenger van? Grrrrr.

I always have my tires siped. That would be my number 1 suggestion. My weight goes up and down all the time. The more weight the better. You may want to start with 200# then go up as needed. I am running a fair amount more horse than you and I am not scared.

Tires are where it's at no matter what vehicle you have. I run good tires and never have an issue with the snow. I have been driving full size cargo vans since 88 when I entered the electrical trade. I also learned to drive with rear wheel drive vehicles so maybe that helps
That is VERY true. I've used and recommended various Bridgestone Blizzak winter tires, and they make a vast improvement in snow or ice compared to the best all-season tire. At one time, Bridgestone made an ice-optimized tire (MZ series, aka: “The Ice Gripper”) and a general-purpose winter tire (WS series). The MZ series provided significantly better traction on ice than even the WS, at the loss of some snow traction (but the way I see it, on ice is when you need all the traction you can get). Both are winter-only tires made of very soft rubber compounds that will wear out very, very quickly in hot weather.

FWIW, I personally observed a Front Wheel Drive car with MZ tires make it up an ice-covered hill that at least one 4WD SUV could not.