George at avlube.com was kind enough to send me a couple of particle count sample kits. avlube.com has them available and the particle count can be added to a normal spectrographic oil analysis for a fee. Just look them up on the web and call if the particle count is not on the web page yet.
I just happened to save a sample bottle of oil from my last oil analysis before I installed the Oilguard. Who does that!?!? NERD!!!!!! I actually was thinking about doing a before/after sample with particle count, but confused particle count (about $25) with ferrographic (about $90) and feared the wrath of the wife. But I saved a bottle of the oil nonetheless.

So here are the results.........

5k miles on oil, no bypass, ISO 16/15/12, or particle count 335 at >4 microns, 182 at >6 microns, 31 at >14 microns.

16k miles on oil, with Oilguard bypass, ISO 15/14/11, or particle count 163 at >4 microns, 89 at >6 microns, 15 at > 14 microns.

So the bypassed oil has about 1/2 the particles in the oil as the full flow oil and the full flow oil has 1/3rd the miles on it.

Quoted from George, "a level approaching 15/13/10 is the level of cleanliness for robotic machines with servo valves. About as good an achievable cleanliness as mechanically/humanly possible." Good enough for me! Lovin' the Oilguard bypass. I think I love George, too. Oooops, didn't really mean that.

Here is some interesting info too. On bobistheoilguy.com, I found virgin oil sample results of spectro and particle count oil analysis. These guys are SERIOUS about oil over there. Delvac 1, the oil I am using, has an ISO averaging 21/16!!!! This is at 5 and 15 microns respectively. This is some 113 times dirtier than my oil was at 16,000 miles!!!!!! I put in an E-mail to George to get some insight. The unanswered question, however, will be WHAT these particles are. We will never know without doing the more expensive ferrographic oil analysis. Could be the virgin oil carries a lot of manufacturing debris that is inert and harmless. Must burn up in the oil pan or something. SPICER

Spicer, thanks for the info. Always wondered if my Oilguard was worth it.

Jum

...I just happened to save a sample bottle of oil ...

Arlen,

Great Test! Thanks for posting! Just curious ... where/how did you take your samples?

:)

Which lab did the tests?

I'm used to seeing the particle size breaks at >2, >5, and >15.

Depending on how much lead there is in my right foot, I've seen from 13/12/8 to 16/14/11 but that is with some pretty major fueling going on...

Bill, I used an oil thief through the dipstick tube with warm oil. The 16k mile sample was done with a tripple rinse technique. The 5k mile sample MAY have been rinsed once, can't remember. I saved it knowing I was going to a bypass. Thought I should save a sample of pre-bypass incase I decided to do this comparison Glad I did.

John, avlube did the tests. They break it down to >4, >6, >14. I have seen another that does it at >5, >10, >15. I guess there is not a standard.

I would like to see other particle counts without bypass. I was very surprised at how CLEAN my full-flow only sample was. A full-flow filter is typically rated at 25 microns or so. My pre-bypass sample reflected better than that. Pretty sure that filter on that sample was a Baldwin/Amsoil.

And those virgin oil samples looked really dirty! It was a different lab, but should not be that extreme of a difference. SPICER

Spicer,

Have you come across similar information regarding the AMSOIL ByPass system? I wonder if it also will have good numbers.

Based on your other posts, it appears you research things carefully before making a decision. What was it about the Oilguard filtering that you liked better than the Amsoil filter?

Thanks.

Spicer,

Have you come across similar information regarding the AMSOIL ByPass system? I wonder if it also will have good numbers.

Based on your other posts, it appears you research things carefully before making a decision. What was it about the Oilguard filtering that you liked better than the Amsoil filter?

Thanks.
I have not seen any REAL numbers on the Amsoil.

I was sold on the Oilguard for a variety of reasons. Many meticulous members here loved it. Hard to argue that. Also, Some claimed low oil pressure from the Amsoil. The Amsoil uses more than 1 element ($) and did not filter any better than the Oilguard. The Oilguard does NOT require element replacement until the oil is changed, unlike others that require frequent changes. I did NOT like the Toilet paper elements at all. Toilet paper bypasses require FREQUENT element changes, which forces you to add make-up oil. If you do the math, with a toilet paper element you are essentially changing the oil CONSTANTLY a little at a time.

I also found the Oilguard website to be chock full of GREAT information designed to educate you about bypass filtration, the Oilguard system, other types of bypass filters, oil sampling, and REAL, no nonsense, hard DATA to back up their claims. I found no holes in their information. They are also very helpful over the phone if needed. The unit is SOLID and is delivering as promised. The ONLY drawback is the install. Mune went flawlessly, but the install is essentially left up to the purchaser. In other words, where and how it is mounted is not plug and play. I had a friend weld me up a custom bracket that is slick. Others mounted to the floor under the driver's seat. Actual hook-up was easy. You will need time and a warm garage with lots of light to do this. Give yourself all day just in case. There is plenty of info from members who have detailed notes on how they installed theirs.

I never wanted a bypass, I thought they were gimicky and overkill. But I wanted to use Delvac 1, and it was costing me $55 in oil alone every 5,000 miles. I did the math and figures it would pay for itself to have a bypass within 2 years in oil savings if I extended to 10,000 miles per oil change. I did oil analysis every 5,000 miles to monitor how it was working. Still looking good at 16,000 miles, so the bypass will pay for itself sooner than I thought. After I establish an oil change interval I will likely sample less often. SPICER

Arlen,

Great job!

I knew you would like those oil guys.. They're kind of psycho, but man, do they know oil and filters!

SPICER............are my reading you right when you said you left your oil in for 16,000 mi. WOW!!!!!!!..........$55. Every 5000mi. does'nt seem to terrible bad to me. Your story is interesting. I honestly did'nt know oil could be used that long with out wearing out or breaking down somewhere in the chain. Guess I need a Oilguard by-pass..........Rick

In most cases oil just gets diry and the additive package is depleated. When adding extra filtertion like spicer did know matter brand it will extend the life of the oil because youare filtering out more dirt and soot that use up the additives. I know of a lot of Dodge cummins that have over 100K miles on the same oil. They just change filters and add oil.

Arlene
I was looking at your numbers the oil guard only reduced the <4 micron by 48%. I thought they advertised 99% to 2 micron.:confused:

Greg

Brutis, the oil is still in and probably good for a LONG time. I am using Delvac1 synthetic. Just my opinion, it may be a waste to use a bypass on standard oil. It is so cheap I would just change it every 5k. Synthetic is much more resistant to breakdown. With bypass it probably could go 100,000 miles.

Greg, it is Arlen, not Arlene. I am a ladies man, not a lady, remember? Anyway, keep in mind, my sample was drawn from the oil sump, not from the clean side of the bypass filter. Oilguard does offer a sample valve that goes on top of the filter mount. A sample drawn from here is going to show cleanliness levels you are talking about. The Oilguard filters about 1 quart a minute and returns it to the oil pan. Sampling from the oil pan will give you the numbers for the oil the engine is getting "on average."

I am still surprised at my super clean "before bypass sample. I am calling Mark at Oilguard, will get more on this. My oil meets strict hydraulic cleanliness. Can't get much cleaner than that. SPICER

ARLEN
Their I got it that time. You must be using a foam air filter and thats way its so clean!!!:D ):h

Greg

Spicer,

If you want to see the particles in the virgin oil, just look in the quart bottle after you pour it your crank case. There will be lots of "snit" in the bottom. All of the oil I have ever used has this. It's why I no longer try to get every last bit of oil out! Yes, it's even in Mobil 1 and Amsoil. At least the stuff I used!

Don't believe it? Check next time you change oil. Light the bottle up with a light on the bottom and look in from the top.

john bud

... Oilguard does offer a sample valve that goes on top of the filter mount. A sample drawn from here is going to show cleanliness levels you are talking about...

Arlen,

I have the sample port on my OilGuard (http://community.webshots.com/album/65003591xTSYrR) and it's actually on the dirty side of the filter. (I ended up using it as a convenient place to install the Oil Pressure switch for my Lift Pump (http://community.webshots.com/album/77018086bLHHHC)).

I've thought about ISO testing the actual efficiency of the OilGuard by taking samples from the input and output sides of the filter. The problem is how to get the clean side sample. I have been planning to change the return line from the pan fitting to the oil filler cap (I have the cap all made up with an AMSOIL swivel fitting). The clean side sample could then be taken from cap fitting with the engine running. The "dirty" side sample could be taken using the oil thief through the dipstick tube as you did. It's on my to-do list but I'm not sure when/if I'll get to it…. :)

I go 10,000 miles on Delvac 1, change the filter at 5000 and have been getting real good numbers from AV Lubes oil samples for 50,000 miles. Wear metals usually in the single digits. Also Spicer, what ever happened to the new Unifilter I sent you to test that you were going to return to me?

I didn't send it? I will see if it is in my basement. I did PM everyone who donated. If I missed your reply I am sorry. I will get back to you. SPICER

Arlen,

George isn't the lab. There may be some notation of Lab ie: Oil analyzers/ Predictive Maintenance. My early ones said Real Services at the footer.

Mine were with Predictive, and broken down differently.

ISO standard size spectrum has changed (this past fall) from >2, >5, >15 to the new standard of >4, >6, >14 microns. However, the ISO coding is still directly relevant. i.e. a 15/13/10 is still directly correlated to both the old and new so we do not have to throw out old ISO test results. Anything other than the 4, 6, and 14 is non-standard, however..
Regarding 1 micron filtration... Absolute (99.5% or higher) filtration below 6 microns will begin to strip VI improver from engine oil....... 6 microns is the magic number....
A filter manufacturer can advertise "filtration to 1 micron"; so a filter is only 3% efficient at 1 micron, it IS filtering to one micron.. Not very effectively but..... And we all know the lack of ASTM listing for oil filters: i.e. no one is saying 10 micron beta 1000, or 6 micron Beta 200........ Thus the license to make such wildly optimistic claims....
I think we will have some interesting real world numbers for comparisons... As John Kennedy shared in his ISO codes, he has the all time lowest numbers I have reviewed to date...
George Morrison

And since we are on the subject of particle counts, PLEASE be most exacting in sample capture procedures. One *must* use a double rinse technique: i.e. capture a sample, put the top on the sample bottle, shake it, remove the top, dump the contents, capture another sample, put top on, shake, dump contents, capture another sample and wahlaahh.. Representative sample... If one does not adhere to these procedures, sample results will be skewed (upward) and meaningless.... Particle counting is incredibly sensitive to even residual dust in sample bottles, tops..
George Morrison

Got an E-mail from Mark Meddock at Oilguard. He stated the following, paraphrased....

He has never seen a "before bypass" sample as clean as mine. Cleanest he has seen was 17/14 on a Ford 7.3 PSD, Delo 400 and a Motorcraft full flow. Many off road and heavy duty applications will have levels around 23/21/19 with full flow only.

With regards to my very clean "before bypass" sample he pointed out that it only had 5k miles on it. If it had 16k miles on it like my bypass sample, the difference would have been more dramatic. Given that, my "after bypass" sample was about as clean as oil can get, and it was half as dirty as my 5k mile sample with tripple the mileage. Can't ask for more than that! SPICER

ISO standard size spectrum has changed (this past fall) from >2, >5, >15 to the new standard of >4, >6, >14 microns. However, the ISO coding is still directly relevant. i.e. a 15/13/10 is still directly correlated to both the old and new so we do not have to throw out old ISO test results. Anything other than the 4, 6, and 14 is non-standard, however..
Regarding 1 micron filtration... Absolute (99.5% or higher) filtration below 6 microns will begin to strip VI improver from engine oil....... 6 microns is the magic number....
A filter manufacturer can advertise "filtration to 1 micron"; so a filter is only 3% efficient at 1 micron, it IS filtering to one micron.. Not very effectively but..... And we all know the lack of ASTM listing for oil filters: i.e. no one is saying 10 micron beta 1000, or 6 micron Beta 200........ Thus the license to make such wildly optimistic claims....
I think we will have some interesting real world numbers for comparisons... As John Kennedy shared in his ISO codes, he has the all time lowest numbers I have reviewed to date...
George Morrison


George, I am ALMOST satisfied with the fliter mount for this kit. Been under the weather a bit, but I plan to swap mounts on my 2002, and if I like it, I'll install one on my 2005...

avlube.com now has the spectro AND particle count on their website at $35 for both. For the amount of info you get, it sounds like a bargain. Add to that the service and follow-up evaluation that George offers, and it is second to none. Thanks George. SPICER

... filtration below 6 microns will begin to strip VI improver from engine oil....... 6 microns is the magic number...George,

Very interesting! So does bypass filtering actually remove VI improver additives to some degree? I seem to remember reading that synthetic base oils need little or no VI improvers compared to mineral base oils to maintain viscosity. Would this imply that it’s better to run synthetics with a bypass?

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:)

George,

Very interesting! So does bypass filtering actually remove VI improver additives to some degree? I seem to remember reading that synthetic base oils need little or no VI improvers compared to mineral base oils to maintain viscosity. Would this imply that it’s better to run synthetics with a bypass?

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:)George, if you got your ears on, awaiting further explanation! SPICER

George, if you got your ears on, awaiting further explanation!
SPICER
George? Echoooooooh?

bump.

Brian.

Just got my particle count back from Predictive Maintenance this morning. I had 9069 miles on Amsoiul 15W-40 running the Amsoil SDF52 oil filter. This is what came back, ISO17/16/14 >4 1070/ >6 587/ >14 100/ >25 20/ >100 0. This was without bypass filteration. I put the Amsoil dual remote on Friday and have put over 900 miles on it since and it was recommended by George to resample somewhere between 2500 and 5000 miles and do another particle count. His comments were very good for only having a full flow filter. By the way this is a 2004.5 LLY with EGR.

Greg

That sounds about right for full flow only. Will be interesting to see how different filters compare. I sampled mine from the dipstick tube with an oil thief. If we want to compare, it is important that the samples be taken from the same source. In other words, from the oil pan (with a thief or at drain time) and not from a sampling port on the filter itself.

I also sampled mine at the end of a highway trip when the oil was very warm and had circulated for quite a while. SPICER

Sampling from the dip stick IMHO is the only way to do it. From the plug I feel you can get stuff you don't want. I always sample as soon as I get back from any where it has ran at least a half hour. I also feel particles will begin to settle right away when the engine is shut. Often I have let it idle till I get everything ready to sample with. Aleays use a new piece of tubing as well. This sample I pulled at least 6oz of oil through it before I did a triple flush of the sample bottle. At the rate I have put miles on the truck (almost 24K in 8 months) it won't be long till we do the next sample.

Greg

OK got my 5000 mile particle sample back. Before the bypass I had 9069 miles on the oil will full flow filter only and got >4 1079/ >6 587/ >25 20 for and ISO of 17/16/14.

Now with the bypass I have have put another 4919 miles on the oil for a total of 13988 miles on the oil. I got >4 512/ >6 279/ >10 20 for and ISO of 16/15/13.

Specto was
Iron=26
Lead=13 and dropping
Copper=242 and dropping
Tin=1
Aluminum=2
Nuckel=0
Silver=2
Silcon=9
Soot=<.1

Did a ferrography on the last sample because of the high copper and lead. Everything was OK and George said it was OK to run. I think I am going to run it out to 20K dump everything and start over because of the high particle count and get the rest of the crud out.

So I think either the Oil Guard or the Amsoil bypass are doing the job. Arlen how oftern do you have to change the Oil Guard filter?

Greg

I have an oilguard, and I have been looking for info on:

1) When to change oil?
2) When to change full flow filter?
3) When to change oilguard filter?

Thanks for any advice.
Oh yeah the oil is Rotella T.

You really need to run used oil analysis to determ what is good for your truck.

Greg

Seth, with my Oilguard, last change I ran for 15K. Sample I pulled when I changed came back saying I could have gone further. Changed both full flow and bypass then. No intermediate changes. I did sample several times to help me decide to go this long.

I doubt I will go further than 15K?

I already have 15K and plain to go much further. Conventional oil if filter will last a long time too. That is way I say to do used oil analysis because no two trucks are a like.

Greg

Greg, how do you define "much further"? Till testing says its time to change?

I guess I still am thinking in the conventional sense, where oil is changed every 3K to 5K. Once I get this once up to 15K, I will have to see if I have the courage to go further, if the 15K test comes back good. I won't drop it till after I get my results back, so if I decide to go further, I can.

Thanks.

I am over 23,000 miles on my oil. I am due for a sample. If it is good I will likely change it anyway and stick with a 20k mile or every year interval. I am going this long as a kind of experiment. I originally never intended to go over 10k, but when sampling shows it is in perfect condition and it costs $55 per oil change for the oil alone!!!!!

I am MORE than pleased with my Oilguard so far! SPICER

This forum is awesome. So many great tips on here. We all appreciate it.

Spicer, where did you run your return line to. I'd like to get additional oil filtration but don't particularly like the return line going to the drain plug.

Thanks

SaguaroKid .... If you are talking about Oilguard, check there web site. I believe they changed the design of the Duramax kit so that it now comes with a replacement oil fill cap with a fitting for the return hose.

The more I read, the more I like about going to an oil by-pass setup. I like both the Oilguard and the Amsoil systems, just trying to decide which one will work best for me. Please keep posting your experiences with these products.

FYI, I ran mine to the oil cap. Drilled stock cap for a swivel fitting; works like a champ! I did not like the drain plug return, either.

I installed the Amsoil dual remote filter system on my Duramax and it was a breeze. Have availability to custom made mount for attaching filter system to frame.

I ran my return to the oil pan as the standard kit is set up. I don't mind it at all. I can't say how well it drains since I haven't changed the oil yet since install over a year ago! It will drain slower since the drain hole is only about 1/4 inch, but I usually let it drain for over an hour anyway. SPICER

Oil Guard return now goes to the oil fill tube. Comes with a nice billet cap with a swivel fitting. Install was a breeze.

I'll try a search, but I thought I read about a problem with the return going to the filler tube? I'm trying to decide between the Amsoil and Oilguard. So far it seems the Oil Guard is a pain to mount, but Amsoil has two elements ($$). Anyone have a mount available for Oilguard?

Kirby

You can custom bracket the oilguard to the frame as well -- greg landuyt makes them.

http://dieselplace.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3811&stc=1

Hi, I'm a new guy to this forum. I have been on TDR for some time though (2 years). Found y'all through a search for ISO 15/13/10.

I have a 2002 Dodge Cummins 50k. Just put a RACOR LFS-802 (Oil Guard-60) on mine. Return to oil filler cap (Oil Guard filler cap). Only have 500 miles on new setup, Mobile 1 SUV & Truck Synthetic.

This thread is WONDERFUL! I have been looking for a group that has done bypass filtering. So far I've learned that the virgin sample I sent in for OA I did not sample correctly. However, thanks for the sampling procedures info.

I can not tell you how grateful I am I found y'all. The TDR guys are only sort of into bypass filtering.

Eagerly looking forward to a very rewarding thread. Same questions, how long for: oil, full flow, bypass, how long can I stand letting it go?

OA @ 2500, 5000, 7500, .....? Had been changing full flow at 5k (dump interval), still change full flow at 5k (to get the larger stuff out)? or just rely on OA?

THANKS FOR A GREAT DISCUSSION!!!!!!

Bob Weis